I don't think this alone will save standard. I think they need to somewhat shift back to stronger non-creature spells, as right now creatures are stronger than ever, but non-creature spells have largely fallen. They did this deliberately because they seem to have thought this is what Standard players want, thanks to feedback, and spells have been weaker since Theros block started, but Standard has begun getting weaker around the time RTR rotated out, and I think blaming spells going down and creatures going up (siege rhino...) at the same time makes sense. You need to have spells either equal with, or slightly stronger than creatures in normal situations for a healthy format, IMO.
I don't like this change also because it means disparity in time between spring and fall blocks and how long they are in Standard, due to the current two-set block system. If they need sets in longer, I'd rather they kept doing 2 rotations a year, and instead have sets last another six months (so 7-8 sets in Standard rather than 5-6), so that blocks are treated fairly compared to each-other.
I also am concerned about what this means for Modern and other non-rotating, typically more powerful than Standard formats. More sets in Standard means things rotate out slower, which means they'll be more conservative about what they print in Standard, which means less new stuff for other formats, Modern in particular, when Modern is in desperate need of certain kinds of cards that they are reluctant to print in Standard to begin with.
This latest Wizards change also makes certain kinds of cards harder to shift into, when you don't want certain things to exist together in Standard, such as not being able to print too strong of pump spells in the same Standard as infect or powerful double-strike stuff, or the issues that turn up when printing fetchlands alongside duals with the subtypes from basics. This could heavily restrict both needed reprints and flexibility in set mechanics and themes when trying to balance blocks that will share Standard with each other for the sake of Standard.
I don't think this change will be enough to save Standard, I think it'll depend more on what they print (and don't print). They need to avoid printing siege rhinos in the future unless other colors and strategies besides midrange get comparable powerhouses, and keep things more balanced between colors and strategy types. They also may have emphasized limited overly-much, to the point that they pushed up the rarity of constructed cards a bit too much and made budget decks too much worse than non-budget decks to the point that it discourages newbie Standard players. They may need to work on making sure more constructed viable cards turn up at common and uncommon, and are more competitive against the latest rares and mythics, to avoid pushing out budget players who help fill out Standard events.
They have watered down spells for along time. I never thought I would see the day when Shock or Volcanic Hammer would be to good for standard let alone Mana Leak.
I am going to take a wild guess that sales and/or tournament attendance was down.
Probably, but I doubt it was because of the new rotation structure, I think its because they wasted spent two blocks on the least popular monsters in the MTG canon, completely destroyed two of the most popular recently visited planes and turned the overarching story into a campy Mighty Morphin Power Rangers spinoff.
Cant be that...
You must nt have played BfZ. Set is worst set ever and got me to want to quit mtg. It clearly shifted my opinion of eldrazi into 'I hate them, they should not be part of this game', then eldrazi winter happened... And now it's the fault of the rotation system... Come on! Just accept BfZ was *****.
You are right i didn't play BfZ. I took one look at that train-wreck of a set and stayed far far away. A few of those cards made it into my commander group's decks and we still don't know why ingest was a mechanic.
Ingest is better than a few of the gimmicks WOTC has been making of late
Flip cards (talk about draft fail)
Meld (what is this? ******* yugioh?)
Energy Counters (because yes we just needed another thing to have to track during match-ups)
Your lucky you still have a store to play at hopefully this change will save your LGS. I lost my LGS already do to the change in rotation. I have another place to play but added travel time and cost = less money to buy cards.
Our LGS isn't in danger of failing as near as I can tell. They're pretty well diversified rather than focused on just Magic. Even still, we do a good amount of Legacy and Modern too. Lots of Magic happens, just not much Standard even though it still gets the premier time slot each week which is FNM.
They have watered down spells for along time. I never thought I would see the day when Shock or Volcanic Hammer would be to good for standard let alone Mana Leak.
Not all spells were watered down but removal is extremely weak these days. Honestly, I think Wizards ran out of ideas... all the stuff they've done over the past few years. It's pretty bad when cards like Utter End are premium removal spells. It's lead to a format where threats are just much better than answers.
I think they need to somewhat shift back to stronger non-creature spells, as right now creatures are stronger than ever, but non-creature spells have largely fallen.
Pro Tour Kaladesh ended in a control mirror and featured a Dynavolt Tower deck with only one creature in the main. I don't play Standard currently, but I do watch it. Kaladesh Standard looks better to me than Standard has in a long time.
I don't think this alone will save standard. I think they need to somewhat shift back to stronger non-creature spells, as right now creatures are stronger than ever, but non-creature spells have largely fallen. They did this deliberately because they seem to have thought this is what Standard players want, thanks to feedback, and spells have been weaker since Theros block started, but Standard has begun getting weaker around the time RTR rotated out, and I think blaming spells going down and creatures going up (siege rhino...) at the same time makes sense. You need to have spells either equal with, or slightly stronger than creatures in normal situations for a healthy format, IMO.
Saying that just after Pro Tour showed a draw-go control mirror on the finals and Pierre Dagen with a non-control no creatures deck in the top 8 seems incredibly inaccurate though... Spells overall are good enough.
It's true though that faster rotation allows for more tests and more change.
I think it is good to have a standard that loses the safety net spells always reprinted in core sets like lightning strike or 4mana wraths. Both should come every now and then though, but having 2 years cycles without them is fine, the more distinct the standard formats feel the better. Part of why new rotation is a bad decision...
Exactly. I'm all for ebbs and flows to the game. Keeps it from getting stale. Maybe we look back in 5 years from now and wonder how creatures got so bad again.
Probably, but I doubt it was because of the new rotation structure, I think its because they wasted spent two blocks on the least popular monsters in the MTG canon, completely destroyed two of the most popular recently visited planes and turned the overarching story into a campy Mighty Morphin Power Rangers spinoff.
So they give them 6 more months in standard? That makes no sense.
This is a good move for them. If they had that other set up, Standard players would be paying up the wazoo for Dual lands much faster than usual. Lands is the foundation of any deck, if you gotta buy lands on a faster rotation JUST to play not to mention whatever is hot at the time is quite the money drain. In a perfect world... if perhaps dual lands were set to uncommons instead of rares perhaps they could do a faster setup since buying lands wouldn't be so expensive. But at the rate they wanted? They would burn out the fan base.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Thinking back to Maro's article where he announced the Masterpiece series, he mentioned (indirectly) that the Zendikar Expeditions helped to increase sales of BFZ and OGW, which helped bring more players into standard. I know standard rotation is a bigger issue than one block, but you gotta wonder if those sales helped sway their decision.
I'll be glad to see them kept in print longer, I really enjoyed them and I'm glad to have a longer opportunity to buy packs.
Too late for me. I traded all of my standard staples upon rotation as 6 months was too irritating. Oh well. Won't be getting back into it either now that I'm completely out. Modern and commander only now.
The prior rotation change barely had time to live. Meh, probably increases their revenue or something otherwise they wouldn't have done it. At least I don't play standard.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I wonder how recently this decision was made. They can't have had that long to collect feedback to make that decision, so I doubt Amonkhet was made with BFZ in mind.
I wonder if they playtested amonkhet and battle for zendikar together, and if so, for how long?
I wonder if we will see some broken decks because of some unforeseen interactions, they did miss reflector mage after all and they played with that for years. Overall the change doesn't effect me, but I am kind of scared about what this will do to standard.
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If MTG is a part of your life, the formats are like relationships:
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
I wonder how recently this decision was made. They can't have had that long to collect feedback to make that decision, so I doubt Amonkhet was made with BFZ in mind.
It seems very unlikely they would do this without out at least some testing for that, even if less.
I wonder if they playtested amonkhet and battle for zendikar together, and if so, for how long?
I wonder if we will see some broken decks because of some unforeseen interactions, they did miss reflector mage after all and they played with that for years. Overall the change doesn't effect me, but I am kind of scared about what this will do to standard.
This is the one thing I'm afraid of. Bad example but imagine if Theros was around with BFZ. Gideon into Elspeth or Nykthos with Eldrazi would have been a nightmare. If there is anything that bad with BFZ/Amonkhet I hope they make some last minute changes.
WotC, you must be trolling me...
... you make an eminently reasonable decision for the first time in a while...
... and you're basically saying "Yeah, damned straight we're forcing the pox that is BfZ on Standard for an extra six months. Evil cackle"?
I don't know whether to be happy, or to go and take a shower...
Wizards do not make these quick decisions unless the bottomline is getting hurt bad. So the theory that standard participation is going down seems reasonable.
As a cube player, I am sad that Chandra will rotate a bit longer, but not really a big deal. It actually makes rotation bargain hunting easier, now that it is back to once a year.
Wizards do not make these quick decisions unless the bottomline is getting hurt bad.
I'm not sure I have faith in Wizards to correctly identify why their bottom line is being hurt. I suspect that attendance was hurt more by the price of standard over KTK/BFZ and during Bant Company's reign of terror during DTK/BFZ/SOI than by quicker rotation. I suspect year-on-year attendance will improve on account of cheaper decks, but with the number of $20+ standard cards, I doubt we return to where we were a couple of years ago.
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The Family
You are right i didn't play BfZ. I took one look at that train-wreck of a set and stayed far far away. A few of those cards made it into my commander group's decks and we still don't know why ingest was a mechanic.
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
Flip cards (talk about draft fail)
Meld (what is this? ******* yugioh?)
Energy Counters (because yes we just needed another thing to have to track during match-ups)
The Family
Our LGS isn't in danger of failing as near as I can tell. They're pretty well diversified rather than focused on just Magic. Even still, we do a good amount of Legacy and Modern too. Lots of Magic happens, just not much Standard even though it still gets the premier time slot each week which is FNM.
Not all spells were watered down but removal is extremely weak these days. Honestly, I think Wizards ran out of ideas... all the stuff they've done over the past few years. It's pretty bad when cards like Utter End are premium removal spells. It's lead to a format where threats are just much better than answers.
Pro Tour Kaladesh ended in a control mirror and featured a Dynavolt Tower deck with only one creature in the main. I don't play Standard currently, but I do watch it. Kaladesh Standard looks better to me than Standard has in a long time.
Exactly. I'm all for ebbs and flows to the game. Keeps it from getting stale. Maybe we look back in 5 years from now and wonder how creatures got so bad again.
So they give them 6 more months in standard? That makes no sense.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
I'll be glad to see them kept in print longer, I really enjoyed them and I'm glad to have a longer opportunity to buy packs.
This feels like a medium selection between that and the every 6 months.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
RGWNaya BurnRGW+++RGWKiki ComboRGW
UGInfectUG+++++++++.++++++++UGMerfolkUG
GGNykthos WaveGG++++++++++GGStompyGG
BRVampiresBR+++++++.+++++++BRGoblinsBR
WGBogglesWG+++++++++++++CRSkred RedCR
UBRGDredgeUBRG++++++++++BB8 RackBB
URWJeskaiURW+++.++UBRGrixis DelverUBR
URStormUR++++++++UWGBant CompanyUWG
WUBRGHumansWUBRG+CCEldrazi TronCC
Currently Playing:
Retired
I wonder if we will see some broken decks because of some unforeseen interactions, they did miss reflector mage after all and they played with that for years. Overall the change doesn't effect me, but I am kind of scared about what this will do to standard.
Standard/Block = The on-again, off-again holiday fling
Modern/Vintage/Legacy = Stable, homely. A ***** after absence/misreading
Limited/Sealed = Heart breaking free spirit
Commander/Cube = Agreeable, needy and expensive
Pauper/Peasant = Sweet, kind, practical, but shy and boring
It seems very unlikely they would do this without out at least some testing for that, even if less.
RUNIN: Norse mythology set (awaiting further playtesting)
FATE of ALARA: Multicolour factions (currently on hiatus)
Contibutor to the Pyrulea community set
I'm here to tell you that all your set mechanics are bad
#Defundthepolice
This is the one thing I'm afraid of. Bad example but imagine if Theros was around with BFZ. Gideon into Elspeth or Nykthos with Eldrazi would have been a nightmare. If there is anything that bad with BFZ/Amonkhet I hope they make some last minute changes.
Standard: BG Golgari Midrange
Modern: U Merfolk GWUBR 5 Color Humans UBW Esper Gifts GW Bogles
... you make an eminently reasonable decision for the first time in a while...
... and you're basically saying "Yeah, damned straight we're forcing the pox that is BfZ on Standard for an extra six months. Evil cackle"?
I don't know whether to be happy, or to go and take a shower...
My Stupidly Large Number of Current Decks
PucaTrade with me!
The Multiplayer Power Rankings
Cube: the Gittening (My Multiplayer Cube) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
The N00b Cube (Peasant cube for new players) - MTGS Cube List | @ CubeTutor
I'm OK with this.
As a cube player, I am sad that Chandra will rotate a bit longer, but not really a big deal. It actually makes rotation bargain hunting easier, now that it is back to once a year.
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I'm not sure I have faith in Wizards to correctly identify why their bottom line is being hurt. I suspect that attendance was hurt more by the price of standard over KTK/BFZ and during Bant Company's reign of terror during DTK/BFZ/SOI than by quicker rotation. I suspect year-on-year attendance will improve on account of cheaper decks, but with the number of $20+ standard cards, I doubt we return to where we were a couple of years ago.