It’s been an exciting summer for Commander players, with the release of Eldritch Moon, Conspiracy: Take the Crown, and now Kaladesh. New cards, new mechanics, and new versions of a few old friends mean new directions for deck builders to explore. It’s even more exciting to us that the format is in such a healthy place that no changes are required. As we do each time, we examined cards from both sides of the banned list and found the balance much to our liking. As the Rules Committee celebrates our tenth year, we remain committed to actively maintaining that equilibrium. We look forward to sharing the ride with you for the next ten.
* One small change we've made is to remove the House Rules page from the web site. Having it there has led to some confusion about which rules are official and which aren't, specifically sideboards (or "wish boards" as they're called). In our continuing effort to clarify and simplify, we've chosen to remove the confusion. We nonetheless encourage you to develop your own house rules where the Official Rules don't fit your local groups.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm really actually saddened by this. That stupid Teferi's Puzzle Box and to a lesser degree all Windfall effects make him busted, but his effects in a vacuum are pretty fair. I made a fair deck with him, using him to stop others from doing insane draws and similar stuff, without actually hurting them too much. He is a really fun Sultai commander without those degenerate interactions in my opinion.
I'm really actually saddened by this. That stupid Teferi's Puzzle Box and to a lesser degree all Windfall effects make him busted, but his effects in a vacuum are pretty fair. I made a fair deck with him, using him to stop others from doing insane draws and similar stuff, without actually hurting them too much. He is a really fun Sultai commander without those degenerate interactions in my opinion.
Oh it's absolutely possible to build a "fair" deck using Leovold
(he would make a good Superfriends general among other options).
However, most Leovold players' ideal game plays out something like T1 Mana Dork, T2 Leovold, T3 Timetwister/Day's Undoing/Windfall/whatever else basically ends the game.
Game-ending abilities are fine on an expensive card like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind,
but on something cheap like Leovold (in green, no less), it's just a recipe for extreme frustration.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm really actually saddened by this. That stupid Teferi's Puzzle Box and to a lesser degree all Windfall effects make him busted, but his effects in a vacuum are pretty fair. I made a fair deck with him, using him to stop others from doing insane draws and similar stuff, without actually hurting them too much. He is a really fun Sultai commander without those degenerate interactions in my opinion.
Oh it's absolutely possible to build a "fair" deck using Leovold
(he would make a good Superfriends general among other options).
However, most Leovold players' ideal game plays out something like T1 Mana Dork, T2 Leovold, T3 Timetwister/Day's Undoing/Windfall/whatever else basically ends the game.
Game-ending abilities are fine on an expensive card like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind,
but on something cheap like Leovold (in green, no less), it's just a recipe for extreme frustration.
You are right, I just find it disheartening to be shuned by certain play groups when I bring my Leovold deck because they've had difficulties with extreme spikes using him in such a manner before. And I don't like the thought of him possibly being banned in the future.
I just find it a little saddening because I find him to be quite a unique card. Perhabs a ban as a commander, but not as one of the 99 would be good (although I wouldn't like it much either).
Leovold is only a problem if your playgroup doesn't run removal, has zero threat assessment skills and builds their decks to play without interacting with problems from other decks as if they're playing solitaire. In my play group he is almost always killed within one or two turns of entering the battlefield or everyone guns for that player. Even then he's far from the most oppressive Commanders I've personally played against. Just this last weekend he got killed 4 or 5 times in a row after being played and the Leovold player scooped. Unless the players are just flat out ignorant, the bad politics of playing him result in the perceived "problem" fixing itself.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
Leovold is only a problem if your playgroup doesn't run removal, has zero threat assessment skills and builds their decks to play without interacting with problems from other decks as if they're playing solitaire. In my play group he is almost always killed within one or two turns of entering the battlefield or everyone guns for that player. Even then he's far from the most oppressive Commanders I've personally played against. Just this last weekend he got killed 4 or 5 times in a row after being played and the Leovold player scooped. Unless the players are just flat out ignorant, the bad politics of playing him result in the perceived "problem" fixing itself.
So... Most commander groups? I mean, Prophet of Kruphix was banned for similar reasons... Then again, the Rules committee is anything but consistent with why cards are banned.
I think the difference is Prophet accidentally wrecked games. You blindly slapped her into a deck and got the valuetown win fairly easily. They seem to not like cards that accidentally cause problems because they're much harder to play around.
Nobody accidentally drops Leovold and wheels. That's a much easier thing to avoid if it's not your jam.
And at least for me personally that works. It's why I'd much rather see something like Cyclonic Rift get the hammer (though I'd probably argue it's not ban-worthy) than something like say Narset; I can really easily just not play against Narset combo as it's not my idea of fun. I'll just find another pod. Rift though can pop up anywhere at any time.
YMMV whether that mindset works for you, but it seems to be how they view it.
I don't find Leovold to be a problem at all. Spot removal is rampant in White. Counterspells in Blue.
Narset is broke. Straight up. If she lives to attack, she wins the game. What's Leovold's plan, to control how many cards are in your hand? Blue/Black to a T. So you go from 5/6 to 1. Then to 2. Make plans to play against him on board. From the start wait until he comes out to do something to stop him from going off.
Is not hard, most players "durdle," mana ramping and tutoring up stuff until like turn 6 anyway. There is no real benefit not to take 5-10 damage while lining up your 3 colors and putting a combo into your hand.
You could all also email the rules committee with your thoughts.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
I don't find Leovold to be a problem at all. Spot removal is rampant in White. Counterspells in Blue.
Narset is broke. Straight up. If she lives to attack, she wins the game. What's Leovold's plan, to control how many cards are in your hand? Blue/Black to a T. So you go from 5/6 to 1. Then to 2. Make plans to play against him on board. From the start wait until he comes out to do something to stop him from going off.
Is not hard, most players "durdle," mana ramping and tutoring up stuff until like turn 6 anyway. There is no real benefit not to take 5-10 damage while lining up your 3 colors and putting a combo into your hand.
You could all also email the rules committee with your thoughts.
what??? Why on earth would the ring get banned
Leovold is likely to get banned for real in janurary because the chance for instant win hand is very high chance basicly. Also how cheap he is to cast this is basicly a old emrakul cast.
Prophet of Kruphix is only a problem if your playgroup doesn't run removal, has zero threat assessment skills and builds their decks to play without interacting with problems from other decks as if they're playing solitaire. In my play group he is almost always killed within one or two turns of entering the battlefield or everyone guns for that player. ... Just this last weekend he got killed 4 or 5 times in a row after being played and the Prophet of Kruphix player scooped. Unless the players are just flat out ignorant, the bad politics of playing him result in the perceived "problem" fixing itself.
Was beat to the punch... but still.... the similarity is shocking...
Why would the rules team wait until January? They don't have to operate under WOTC's Magic rules update policy. If you really detest it so much, email them and ask for an immediate ban.
Why isn't the new Sylvala banned? She is much more potential to break away and win by 'fair' design of ramping into giant hydras and other scary Colossi.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
Prophet of Kruphix is only a problem if your playgroup doesn't run removal, has zero threat assessment skills and builds their decks to play without interacting with problems from other decks as if they're playing solitaire. In my play group he is almost always killed within one or two turns of entering the battlefield or everyone guns for that player. ... Just this last weekend he got killed 4 or 5 times in a row after being played and the Prophet of Kruphix player scooped. Unless the players are just flat out ignorant, the bad politics of playing him result in the perceived "problem" fixing itself.
Was beat to the punch... but still.... the similarity is shocking...
Funny how so many of us had the exact same thought.
I'd just like to add- Prophet of Kruphix also cost 5 and *wasn't* a General,
so I'd wager Leovold is on very thin ice.
I wouldn't be surprised if they only left him in to help sell CNS2 a bit longer.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Leovold is likely to get banned for real in janurary because the chance for instant win hand is very high chance basicly. Also how cheap he is to cast this is basicly a old emrakul cast.
Sol ring is better then every card on the banlist except for some really dumb stuff like channel, tinker, tolarian academy, etc. etc. It's at least better than all the power 9.
Didn't even think about leovold in EDH, but amazed he wasn't banned now that I think about him as a general you just get to 6+ mana, leovold into twister/undoing/whatever and the rest of the players all get mind twisted while you get a fresh 7.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I currently see Leovold at the same level as the likes of Jhoira, Narset, and Arcum Dagsson in which the commander is really easy to make an abusive unfun deck around yet it's not exactly incompatible with the format philosophy like Erayo and Braids are.
Source: http://www.mtgcommander.net/Forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=18371
(Also known as Xenphire)
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It will be a a matter of time before he gets banned though
Because Teferi's puzzle box is a instant win combo
I faced him a few times on Xmage the only commander that I see that can beat him is Nekusar, the mindrazer
UBRKess, Dissident MageUBR - Controlling Dissidents
GRhonas the IndomitableG - Indomitable Four Drops
WUBOloro, Ageless AsceticWUB - Loot & Renanimate
He's the only one who has to run windfalls. He's like Nekusar, but instead of damage he shuts players out of the game.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
There, I fixed it for you.
Eh, Modern's ok..has room to improve, but Standard? That's the Yugioh of Magic.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
I'm really actually saddened by this. That stupid Teferi's Puzzle Box and to a lesser degree all Windfall effects make him busted, but his effects in a vacuum are pretty fair. I made a fair deck with him, using him to stop others from doing insane draws and similar stuff, without actually hurting them too much. He is a really fun Sultai commander without those degenerate interactions in my opinion.
Oh it's absolutely possible to build a "fair" deck using Leovold
(he would make a good Superfriends general among other options).
However, most Leovold players' ideal game plays out something like T1 Mana Dork, T2 Leovold, T3 Timetwister/Day's Undoing/Windfall/whatever else basically ends the game.
Game-ending abilities are fine on an expensive card like Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind,
but on something cheap like Leovold (in green, no less), it's just a recipe for extreme frustration.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
You are right, I just find it disheartening to be shuned by certain play groups when I bring my Leovold deck because they've had difficulties with extreme spikes using him in such a manner before. And I don't like the thought of him possibly being banned in the future.
I just find it a little saddening because I find him to be quite a unique card. Perhabs a ban as a commander, but not as one of the 99 would be good (although I wouldn't like it much either).
(Also known as Xenphire)
So... Most commander groups? I mean, Prophet of Kruphix was banned for similar reasons... Then again, the Rules committee is anything but consistent with why cards are banned.
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My Livestream Archive
Nobody accidentally drops Leovold and wheels. That's a much easier thing to avoid if it's not your jam.
And at least for me personally that works. It's why I'd much rather see something like Cyclonic Rift get the hammer (though I'd probably argue it's not ban-worthy) than something like say Narset; I can really easily just not play against Narset combo as it's not my idea of fun. I'll just find another pod. Rift though can pop up anywhere at any time.
YMMV whether that mindset works for you, but it seems to be how they view it.
GReki, the History of Kamigawa Legendfall
UGEdric, Spymaster of Trest Drawmaster of Trest | GBGlissa the Traitor A Touch of Death | WBTeysa, Orzhov Scion Spinning in Graves
UWIsperia, Supreme Judge A Riddles of Sphinxes | RG Mena and Denn, Wildborn Beware Falling Rocks | GWSigarda, Host of Hurons The Enchantress
WRGRith the Awakener Superfriendly Tokens
I don't find Leovold to be a problem at all. Spot removal is rampant in White. Counterspells in Blue.
Narset is broke. Straight up. If she lives to attack, she wins the game. What's Leovold's plan, to control how many cards are in your hand? Blue/Black to a T. So you go from 5/6 to 1. Then to 2. Make plans to play against him on board. From the start wait until he comes out to do something to stop him from going off.
Is not hard, most players "durdle," mana ramping and tutoring up stuff until like turn 6 anyway. There is no real benefit not to take 5-10 damage while lining up your 3 colors and putting a combo into your hand.
You could all also email the rules committee with your thoughts.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
what??? Why on earth would the ring get banned
Leovold is likely to get banned for real in janurary because the chance for instant win hand is very high chance basicly. Also how cheap he is to cast this is basicly a old emrakul cast.
Was beat to the punch... but still.... the similarity is shocking...
Why would the rules team wait until January? They don't have to operate under WOTC's Magic rules update policy. If you really detest it so much, email them and ask for an immediate ban.
Why isn't the new Sylvala banned? She is much more potential to break away and win by 'fair' design of ramping into giant hydras and other scary Colossi.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Funny how so many of us had the exact same thought.
I'd just like to add- Prophet of Kruphix also cost 5 and *wasn't* a General,
so I'd wager Leovold is on very thin ice.
I wouldn't be surprised if they only left him in to help sell CNS2 a bit longer.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
Sol ring is better then every card on the banlist except for some really dumb stuff like channel, tinker, tolarian academy, etc. etc. It's at least better than all the power 9.
Didn't even think about leovold in EDH, but amazed he wasn't banned now that I think about him as a general you just get to 6+ mana, leovold into twister/undoing/whatever and the rest of the players all get mind twisted while you get a fresh 7.
Currently Playing:
Retired
They also doubled down on the "We don't want to be responsible for policing the format even though we were established to police the format."
My Custom Cards
My Twitch - Languishing in neglect under the vain hope of starting again
My Livestream Archive