They are just beautiful, so gorgeous images, it's so sad that I'll never get one due to rarity and price. I don't like the "new rarity" as is such a rich people thing. I have to underline that I haven't even took a close look on a zendikar expedition and this time it will be no different.
I'm not sure if we'll see an (non-land) eternal staple reprinted in standard again, regardless of how innocuous. They seem to have reacted very badly to Thoughtseize/Mutavault in standard. It's a shame.
Agreed. Thoughtseize was fine (still very good but fine) after Pack Rat rotated too. I don't like the conclusion they've drawn at all.
I won't even try to contest your notion that Thoughtseize was just "fine". I'm guessing that you played it heavily and attribute a good chunk of the card innate's power to your own skill, which allows you to believe that the detractors were both unskilled and whiny. But even if the card was juuuust at the point where it was "fine" to exist in Standard, it sucked (or in reality, should have sucked) up the power of similar and supporting black cards in all the sets that shared a Standard format with Theros. And that's the problem with including cards that are so much better than the average (or really, better than the best) in a set. You have to balance and design 2 years worth of cards around the fact that card exists.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
I'm not sure if we'll see an (non-land) eternal staple reprinted in standard again, regardless of how innocuous. They seem to have reacted very badly to Thoughtseize/Mutavault in standard. It's a shame.
Agreed. Thoughtseize was fine (still very good but fine) after Pack Rat rotated too. I don't like the conclusion they've drawn at all.
I won't even try to contest your notion that Thoughtseize was just "fine". I'm guessing that you played it heavily and attribute a good chunk of the card innate's power to your own skill, which allows you to believe that the detractors were both unskilled and whiny. But even if the card was juuuust at the point where it was "fine" to exist in Standard, it sucked (or in reality, should have sucked) up the power of similar and supporting black cards in all the sets that shared a Standard format with Theros. And that's the problem with including cards that are so much better than the average (or really, better than the best) in a set. You have to balance and design 2 years worth of cards around the fact that card exists.
I played UB Control for the entirety of that standard, so I got wrecked by the card more than I abused it (did have it in my sideboard). I don't think it was oppressive in the THS-KTK standard, and I'd much rather have powerful spells in the format than vice versa.
Well, at first look they have different nice artwork. At second look I don't see myself wanting any of them. If I were to open one I'd probably just sell it for $500.
The Zendikar expeditions range from $35 to $200 depending on which one you want. I think I would fully take advantage of the who wants it now shiny people. Then I'd go buy something else that isn't card board with that money. If they don't meet my price it goes into an EDH deck forever.
At third glance I dislike the art work. The only slightly cool thing is the art work of steel overseer because his art shows hangarback walker. I've still no desire to bling out my deck when I actually like the silver version of steel overseer better or the steel version.
I'd much rather have super mythic rarity reserve list reprints. That's a loop hole they could create. ""Special-Purpose Reprints
Wizards of the Coast may print special versions of cards not meant for regular game play, such as oversized cards."" Just change that to read not meant for regular game play in a standard set.
You're right, it would really be terrible to buy a $4 product and find five $100 bills inside. And just think— if you don't sell now, your $4 investment will devalue to only around $100!
I'm not sure if we'll see an (non-land) eternal staple reprinted in standard again, regardless of how innocuous. They seem to have reacted very badly to Thoughtseize/Mutavault in standard. It's a shame.
Agreed. Thoughtseize was fine (still very good but fine) after Pack Rat rotated too. I don't like the conclusion they've drawn at all.
I won't even try to contest your notion that Thoughtseize was just "fine". I'm guessing that you played it heavily and attribute a good chunk of the card innate's power to your own skill, which allows you to believe that the detractors were both unskilled and whiny. But even if the card was juuuust at the point where it was "fine" to exist in Standard, it sucked (or in reality, should have sucked) up the power of similar and supporting black cards in all the sets that shared a Standard format with Theros. And that's the problem with including cards that are so much better than the average (or really, better than the best) in a set. You have to balance and design 2 years worth of cards around the fact that card exists.
I played UB Control for the entirety of that standard, so I got wrecked by the card more than I abused it (did have it in my sideboard). I don't think it was oppressive in the THS-KTK standard, and I'd much rather have powerful spells in the format than vice versa.
Has nothing to with oppressive but rather how constant the card is while it is legal. It was an all-star from start to finish and that's not desirable.
They are just beautiful, so gorgeous images, it's so sad that I'll never get one due to rarity and price. I don't like the "new rarity" as is such a rich people thing. I have to underline that I haven't even took a close look on a zendikar expedition and this time it will be no different.
Disagreed, and I'm in a very similar situation
(very limited funds, literally never seen an Expedition in person, let alone opened one).
If they upped the cost of packs, sure.
But this is just added value for the same cost, so I don't understand the complaint.
My only issue with this concept is that I doubt they will be able to continuously create a set of 50 reprints
which are thematically tied to the plane,
and they will ultimately devolve into a random assortment of cards.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Man, so many of these cards that I want. And I was just telling myself I was going to skip buying a box this set
You'll need to buy at least FOUR boxes to be mathematically sure to get one. Good luck.
Correction: You'll need to buy four boxes on average before you're likely to have pulled one. You'll need to buy 1 + the total number of boxes without inventions in order to be mathematically sure to get one.
This comment was brought to you by math. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
Playing millions of cards every turn... Slowly and systematically obliterating any chance my opponent has of winning... Clicking the multitude of locking mechanisms into place... Not even trying to win myself until turn 10+ once I have nigh absolute control... Watching my opponent desperately trying to navigate the labyrinthine prison that I've constructed... Seeing the light of hope fade and ultimately extinguished in an excruciatingly slow manner... THAT'S fun Magic.
We have 2-3 users that are dramatically making this thread incomprehensible and non-productive for anyone else to possibly join in the discussion. This needs to change.
Every time I see [ktkenshinx] post in here, I get the impression of a stern dad walking in on a bunch of kids trying to do something dumb and just shaking his head in disappointment.
Near Mint: The same as Slightly Played, but we threw some Altoids in the box we stored it in to cover up the scent of dead mice. Slightly Played: The base condition for all MTG cards. This card looks OK, but there’s one minor annoying ding in it that will always irritate and distract you whenever you draw it. Moderately Played: This card looks like it survived the Tet Offensive tucked inside the waistband of GI underwear. It may smell like it, too. Heavily Played: This card looks like the remains of Mohammed Atta’s passport after 9/11. It may be playable if you double-sleeve it to stop the chunks from falling out. The condition formerly known as "Washing Machine Grade" Damaged: This card is the unfortunate victim of a Mirrorweave/March of the Machines/Chaos Confetti/Mindslaver combo.
[M]aking counterfeit cards is the absolute height of dishonesty. Ask yourself this question: Since most people...are totally cool with the use of proxies...what purpose do [high] quality counterfeit cards serve?
Man, so many of these cards that I want. And I was just telling myself I was going to skip buying a box this set
Just skip the box, identify which ones you want and trade for them.
I *frequently* disagree with you, but not here.
Unless you're doing it on a very large scale, buying boxes is one of the most frivolous wastes of money in M:tG,
and that's really saying something.
However, people are wired to *want* to open packs, so WotC ends up getting rich no matter what they put in them.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It obviously won't happen to many people because of the rarity of the specific card, but how much is it gonna suck to lose your prerelease to a Static Orb? I mean, with just a couple damage sources that don't require tapping, that becomes extremely oppressive, especially in limited.
It obviously won't happen to many people because of the rarity of the specific card, but how much is it gonna suck to lose your prerelease to a Static Orb? I mean, with just a couple damage sources that don't require tapping, that becomes extremely oppressive, especially in limited.
Static Orb is hardly a problematic card. It's annoying, to be sure, but it's symmetrical and there are probably few (if any) ways the break the symmetry in Kaladesh, so really it'll just slow the game way, way down but won't really change it that much.
The problem cards are the ones that are clearly way above the curve in Limited, Sol Ring being the most notable. Might as well concede to a T1 Sol Ring and move on to game 2.
I'm not sure if we'll see an (non-land) eternal staple reprinted in standard again, regardless of how innocuous. They seem to have reacted very badly to Thoughtseize/Mutavault in standard. It's a shame.
It obviously won't happen to many people because of the rarity of the specific card, but how much is it gonna suck to lose your prerelease to a Static Orb? I mean, with just a couple damage sources that don't require tapping, that becomes extremely oppressive, especially in limited.
You do realize that if someone opens one of these, it doesn't just hand the game to them, you could open one of these and the rest of your cards could end you up with a sub-par to terrible deck. /smh
I'm okay with the concept of epic rarity. I admire the brilliance of the marketing team for bringing these things out on basic land day. I like the cards that they chose to reprint. I absolutely love the new art and fancy border. I am salivating over the flavor text. By all accounts, I should love this.
One thing really bugs me, though.
While I love the new art, I hate that new art was used. If these cards had normal art (albeit holographic and a new set symbol), they would effectively increase the supply of cards on the market (even if it isn't by much). Now that they are all visual marvels, however, people who already own these cards (especially those with large wallets) have a good reason to invest in one of these as well. While I get that the new art brings things into the thematic space of Kaladesh, I wish that they weren't designed to attract the sort of big-money investors who are more likely to have these cards already.
tldr: If collectors/investors ever start treating inventions as separate cards from the originals, worthy of buying even if you have the original, I don't see this having any real effect on the market.
I'm okay with the concept of epic rarity. I admire the brilliance of the marketing team for bringing these things out on basic land day. I like the cards that they chose to reprint. I absolutely love the new art and fancy border. I am salivating over the flavor text. By all accounts, I should love this.
One thing really bugs me, though.
While I love the new art, I hate that new art was used. If these cards had normal art (albeit holographic and a new set symbol), they would effectively increase the supply of cards on the market (even if it isn't by much). Now that they are all visual marvels, however, people who already own these cards (especially those with large wallets) have a good reason to invest in one of these as well. While I get that the new art brings things into the thematic space of Kaladesh, I wish that they weren't designed to attract the sort of big-money investors who are more likely to have these cards already.
tldr: If collectors/investors ever start treating inventions as separate cards from the originals, worthy of buying even if you have the original, I don't see this having any real effect on the market.
The effect of the market is that those collectors buy up a lot of stuff which requires a LOT of booster opening, which in turn pushes down the prices of normal cards from the sets. So the real effect will be seen on cards from Kaladesh itself.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
tldr: If collectors/investors ever start treating inventions as separate cards from the originals, worthy of buying even if you have the original, I don't see this having any real effect on the market.
I don't think it's intended to directly lower the price of these masterpiece cards in other printings. It's supposed to lower the singles prices for all Kaladesh cards; since a LOT more packs will be opened trying to get these masterpieces. And it'll make financial sense to open more packs because of the margin for masterpieces.
Although this still all has yet to be seen.
Really really surprised by some of the inclusions, such as Lotus Petal. They've set the bar high for masterpieces...
Regarding the effect on prices:
1) Assume the average invention card costs about $75 a month after release.
2) An invention card appears in one out of four booster boxes.
3) Inventions, rares, and mythic rares are sold as singles with valuations dependent upon supply and demand.
Possible conclusion:
As long as inventions inflate demand and EV remains above the purchase price of a booster box, more boxes will be opened, increasing the supply of Kaladesh rares and mythics. The supply of rares and mythics in Kaladesh would meet demand at a lower asking price, allowing rare and mythic prices to drop more rapidly. The drop in the prices of rares and mythics would be offset by increased spending by a minority of individuals on invention cards, increasing the number of boxes that can be opened before stores and individual sellers stop turning a profit on singles. Standard players would eventually be able to purchase singles totaling about 4($90) = $360 in value for 4($90)-$75 = $285, i.e., 79 percent of what the cost would have been without the inclusion of invention cards. The success of Expeditions may indicate this outcome is quite possible. WOTC benefits by selling a larger number of boxes over the lifetime of the set. To succeed in lowering standard prices WOTC must increase card supply, but to do so it must also satisfy those venders who are opening boxes and creating the supply. Time will tell how well this works as a continuous strategy in comparison to trial project of the Expeditions.
I think I like the gearhulk's themselves better in the regular cards
Torrential just looks silly. I think Verdurous and Noxious are the only cool ones imo.
People really love to abuse the word "broken" here.
You really seem to have a problem with taking correction. This is the wrong standard for it. I'm not saying the CARD is broken, I'm saying it would break standard.
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
Modern: UB Zombie hunt UB - WR Boros tokens WR - BGW Treefolk tribal BGW
Commander: UR Mizzix, a Storm of spells UR (Decklist)
I won't even try to contest your notion that Thoughtseize was just "fine". I'm guessing that you played it heavily and attribute a good chunk of the card innate's power to your own skill, which allows you to believe that the detractors were both unskilled and whiny. But even if the card was juuuust at the point where it was "fine" to exist in Standard, it sucked (or in reality, should have sucked) up the power of similar and supporting black cards in all the sets that shared a Standard format with Theros. And that's the problem with including cards that are so much better than the average (or really, better than the best) in a set. You have to balance and design 2 years worth of cards around the fact that card exists.
I played UB Control for the entirety of that standard, so I got wrecked by the card more than I abused it (did have it in my sideboard). I don't think it was oppressive in the THS-KTK standard, and I'd much rather have powerful spells in the format than vice versa.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
You're right, it would really be terrible to buy a $4 product and find five $100 bills inside. And just think— if you don't sell now, your $4 investment will devalue to only around $100!
Exactly. Honestly, the whole thing seems pretty pointless, except for rich people.
Has nothing to with oppressive but rather how constant the card is while it is legal. It was an all-star from start to finish and that's not desirable.
Disagreed, and I'm in a very similar situation
(very limited funds, literally never seen an Expedition in person, let alone opened one).
If they upped the cost of packs, sure.
But this is just added value for the same cost, so I don't understand the complaint.
My only issue with this concept is that I doubt they will be able to continuously create a set of 50 reprints
which are thematically tied to the plane,
and they will ultimately devolve into a random assortment of cards.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
This comment was brought to you by math. Learn it. Live it. Love it.
WUDeath&TaxesWG
Legacy
UBRGDredgeUBRG
UHigh TideU
URGLandsURG
WR Card Choice List
WUR American D&T
WUB Esper D&T
The Reserved List
Heat Maps
Just skip the box, identify which ones you want and trade for them.
I *frequently* disagree with you, but not here.
Unless you're doing it on a very large scale, buying boxes is one of the most frivolous wastes of money in M:tG,
and that's really saying something.
However, people are wired to *want* to open packs, so WotC ends up getting rich no matter what they put in them.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
R.I.P. Wash
Don't click this. I mean it. No, seriously. I said not to click it. The world might blow up. Even if you just think about it. BOOM. See? The whole world could've just blown up and it would've been all your fault. Just don't click this.
The problem cards are the ones that are clearly way above the curve in Limited, Sol Ring being the most notable. Might as well concede to a T1 Sol Ring and move on to game 2.
Just remember that we have 5 manlands and sylvan advocate + pulse of murasa in standard and IMO those plus crucible of worlds would have warped the format :/
You do realize that if someone opens one of these, it doesn't just hand the game to them, you could open one of these and the rest of your cards could end you up with a sub-par to terrible deck. /smh
I'm okay with the concept of epic rarity. I admire the brilliance of the marketing team for bringing these things out on basic land day. I like the cards that they chose to reprint. I absolutely love the new art and fancy border. I am salivating over the flavor text. By all accounts, I should love this.
One thing really bugs me, though.
While I love the new art, I hate that new art was used. If these cards had normal art (albeit holographic and a new set symbol), they would effectively increase the supply of cards on the market (even if it isn't by much). Now that they are all visual marvels, however, people who already own these cards (especially those with large wallets) have a good reason to invest in one of these as well. While I get that the new art brings things into the thematic space of Kaladesh, I wish that they weren't designed to attract the sort of big-money investors who are more likely to have these cards already.
tldr: If collectors/investors ever start treating inventions as separate cards from the originals, worthy of buying even if you have the original, I don't see this having any real effect on the market.
The effect of the market is that those collectors buy up a lot of stuff which requires a LOT of booster opening, which in turn pushes down the prices of normal cards from the sets. So the real effect will be seen on cards from Kaladesh itself.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I don't think it's intended to directly lower the price of these masterpiece cards in other printings. It's supposed to lower the singles prices for all Kaladesh cards; since a LOT more packs will be opened trying to get these masterpieces. And it'll make financial sense to open more packs because of the margin for masterpieces.
Although this still all has yet to be seen.
Really really surprised by some of the inclusions, such as Lotus Petal. They've set the bar high for masterpieces...
Regarding the effect on prices:
1) Assume the average invention card costs about $75 a month after release.
2) An invention card appears in one out of four booster boxes.
3) Inventions, rares, and mythic rares are sold as singles with valuations dependent upon supply and demand.
Possible conclusion:
As long as inventions inflate demand and EV remains above the purchase price of a booster box, more boxes will be opened, increasing the supply of Kaladesh rares and mythics. The supply of rares and mythics in Kaladesh would meet demand at a lower asking price, allowing rare and mythic prices to drop more rapidly. The drop in the prices of rares and mythics would be offset by increased spending by a minority of individuals on invention cards, increasing the number of boxes that can be opened before stores and individual sellers stop turning a profit on singles. Standard players would eventually be able to purchase singles totaling about 4($90) = $360 in value for 4($90)-$75 = $285, i.e., 79 percent of what the cost would have been without the inclusion of invention cards. The success of Expeditions may indicate this outcome is quite possible. WOTC benefits by selling a larger number of boxes over the lifetime of the set. To succeed in lowering standard prices WOTC must increase card supply, but to do so it must also satisfy those venders who are opening boxes and creating the supply. Time will tell how well this works as a continuous strategy in comparison to trial project of the Expeditions.
I made a cube. It's called 'babe cube' because all the cards have babes on them. http://www.cubetutor.com/draft/58369
Torrential just looks silly. I think Verdurous and Noxious are the only cool ones imo.
And one of each sword please!
going to have a wallet hangover lol
You really seem to have a problem with taking correction. This is the wrong standard for it. I'm not saying the CARD is broken, I'm saying it would break standard.