Am I alone in my sadness that these are all foils? I love the art and frame on these things but I hate foil cards.
They look a bit tacky in my opinion, and worse, they warp too easily. Even the modern foils warp like crazy.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would love more non-foil promos.
Am I alone in my sadness that these are all foils? I love the art and frame on these things but I hate foil cards.
They look a bit tacky in my opinion, and worse, they warp too easily. Even the modern foils warp like crazy.
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I would love more non-foil promos.
No, but we may be in the minority. I also do not like foil cards. Well, I like that they exist because I can then trade or sell them for value, but I think that non-foil cards show off the art as the artist intended.
Can someone explain this to me, because I don't understand this at all. Taken from the article on the Wizards site. How do Expeditions and Inventions keep Standard accessible? I'm not following.
"Challenge #1: Keeping Standard Accessible
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this."
I translate it like this: Issue: Standard players complaining about card prices for Standard decks Solution: Print Masterpieces, so stupid collectors buy much more boosters (than regulars) and will sell the crap standard bulk rares at cheap to standard players
I think the solution is more about getting more people to draft because of the excitement of pulling one of these.
Also, somebody commented that these are replacing the foil mythics in packs. I don't see it that way, They should be showing up at roughly the same rate as foil mythics, and therefore in essence, "Double your mythic" pulls.
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Full art lands shouldn't always appear, it's correct to make them once every X block. The fact is that from THS on, I haven't seen a single block that deserved them less than BFZ: look at those arts, they're awesome! Zendikar landscapes are so peculiar that it doesn't fit for every Magic fan around the world, so now we need something really new. It's a pity we got full art lands only one year ago, because KLD has another peculiar landscape I would love to see depicted in full art frames.
Why shouldn't they be in every set? I have no use for half-art, modern border lands. So while I do like many of these basic artworks, I'll never play any of them over full arts or old bordered lands.
I don't think that wizards would do that especially after that statement.
They'll wait 2 years when that statement has been mostly forgotten.
I remember when they revealed Mythic Rares they said wouldn't be used for chase tournament cards and you wouldn't need them for competitive play (and at the time the planeswalkers were pretty garbage except Jace, so it was believed). Now, pretty much every deck has at least a couple of planeswalkers + a few other good mythics - fat load of bull that was.
Hearing people misquote this gets tiring. Mark Rosewater never said that. Here is what he *actually* said, straight from the article:
"This now leads us to the next question: How are cards split between rare and mythic rare? Or more to the point, what kind of cards are going to become mythic rares? We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards."
And they have absolutely held true to that definition. You are remembering incorrectly.
Full art lands shouldn't always appear, it's correct to make them once every X block. The fact is that from THS on, I haven't seen a single block that deserved them less than BFZ: look at those arts, they're awesome! Zendikar landscapes are so peculiar that it doesn't fit for every Magic fan around the world, so now we need something really new. It's a pity we got full art lands only one year ago, because KLD has another peculiar landscape I would love to see depicted in full art frames.
Why shouldn't they be in every set? I have no use for half-art, modern border lands. So while I do like many of these basic artworks, I'll never play any of them over full arts or old bordered lands.
I wonder what will the excitement will be when they do away with the border completely for basic lands in a set. With the right art, how awesome would it be to have no borders at all on your basics?
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All your base are belong to us!
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Rather than printing Standard playable commons and uncommons, lets just milk people who like to play the booster pack lottery.
That does not work. Whatever is rare and mythic rare still needs to be better than common and uncommon, and then THOSE super-powerful rare cards would now be the "new standard playable", and those powerful common and uncommons you are thinking about would no longer be standard playable.
The bolded part is false. Bulk rares and mythics will always exist. Look at the average standard deck, just about everything aside from basic lands is rare or mythic these days.
The bolded part is true. If you believe that they should make a set where literally every rare and mythic rare is a bulk rare and the ONLY standard playable cards are at common and uncommon, then you have a vision for a game that I don't think many other players share. It would also make limited a lot less fun and interesting, the format would get stale very quickly.
If you can't go two posts without a ridiculous straw man, its not worth discussing this with you.
OK, then how else am I supposed to interpret your response? I did not say or intend to imply that bulk rares do not exist.
If you are willing to agree that mythics and rares are generally going to be better than commons and uncommons, then the bolded part IS true. If you power up the commons and uncommons, that wont make them standard playable if the rares and mythics are powered up as well.
The ONLY way your response seemed, to me, to make sense (the bolded part is false because of bulk rares) is if you were arguing for rares and mythic rares to be lower power than commons and uncommons. I did not disingenuously set up a straw man to beat up on, I literally believed that was your vision.
People should only be complaining about the Kaladesh Inventions if they want them but don't want to open the packs or spend the money to own them. If that's the case, join the rest of the players who want cards they will likely never own.
Seriously don't understand how people are upset about the inventions.
Seems like people are confused about why not everyone likes the idea of Masterpieces every set. So let me try to explain my (our? At least 15 people as of this posting echoed my sentiments) rationale in a way that won't make people hate me.
First things first - I play the game. I enjoy playing the game. I'm not a millionaire investor, I'm a lower-middle-class dad who likes casting spells. That said, collecting, for me, has always (more than two decades, now) been a fun aspect of the game. It was fun to chase the last card I needed to complete my first set. Yes, it fed my OCD, but it was fun. And over the span of my career, most of my cards have gotten used in some fashion or another (even cards that are banned in Vintage - hello, janky casual Shahrazad deck!) - I've even played some fun games with my friends for ante.
Collecting isn't fun anymore. The change to the Judge exemplar program, making Judge foils really really expensive, was the first phase. "Every rare in the set can now be a prerelease card" was the second, and Expeditions were the third. Between all three of those, I really felt like WOTC was trying to get me to quit, so I said to myself "Okay, maybe instead of trying to get one of everything I'll just stick to collecting my angels, dragons, and legendaries." Now we get Expeditions every block? How long before the theme of the Masterwork set (fun fact: Decipher's LOTR TCG had alternate art/frame cards called Masterwork Foils back in 2014) is Angels, Dragons, or whatever it is that I'd decided to try to collect because I like the art?
Am I going to stop playing the game? Heck no - I still enjoy the spellslinging. But I am unable to continue playing a part of the game that I enjoyed - it doesn't matter if you enjoyed it or not, I did - and that makes me sad.
Edit: I'm not saying that YOU can't enjoy Expeditions (Masterworks, whatever). If you think that they're great, that's fine. Some of them are gorgeous, and if your favorite card gets the treatment and you open it in a pack, that's clearly very cool. This is why I don't like them. Nobody who posted and said "I love more Expeditions!" is wrong. They're right too.
Really love this. Zendikar expeditions were few and far between for me, but they were so useful in trading. I imagine the story will change when there's something I actually want (Gearhulks ****!), and I feel the grind and frustration from not cracking them. But yeah, this is just added fun for me. I'll leave the market analysis to MTGS' wannabe-economists.
(I echo the poster who fears for their wallet if they ever print a masterpiece Angel...)
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this."
I don't exactly understand that part. How will expeditions make standard more accessible? Let's say that the Mechas become standard staples of tier-1, I don't see how the odds of getting one alternate in every other 144 booster will lower the price of the regular ones? Yes, you could sell one for 100$ and buuy your deck, but it's still very conditional. You would have a&) get one b) sell it.
Their thought process is that these will drive booster sales increasing supply. BFZ wasn't the greatest set but Gideon could be had for around $20 because it was opened alot due to the expeditions. Without them he would have been a much more expensive card seeing as for awhile he was a 4 of in three of tge top decks in the format. But if we dont flock to get the new packs with the shiny inventions that plan doesn't work.
What I really love about all this, is PR communication. This is fantastic (aka, tighten your asses). It's gonna be extremely healthy for the game (aka we will make more money and your bank account will eat dirt). Standard will be cheaper (aka totaly worthless). Blablabla.
True story : "We made the expeditions. And made *****load of money. BTW, Sorry for all those poor players who spend hundreds of dollars on an almost totaly worthless collection of garbage paper. But hey, at least, you had fun (or not since the eldrazi block was half full of *****)". "Then, we made the Return to Innistrad block and stupidly, we forgot to put more expeditions in them, and instead invested in great lore extension and fun / playable cards. As could be expected, we did far less sales as we did 6 months ago. Hopefuly, we learned from our mistakes and had a Fantastic idea !". "Now, we introduce 'Masterpieces". A fantastic neverending collection of overprice cards, partly bull***** ones, partly cards we just made you believe were temporarily available in a master set, that nobody will own but that everybody will desire. Of course, this will not help anyone to get out of print cards since they will be Worth 4x the normal price, and 16x more expensive if you try to obtain them via boosters. But hey, opening packs will be fun (the game is another story) and more important, that will make my employer, and hundreds of greedy investors, even more happy than last year. Meaning good things for my end year results bonus and for many years of more bull***** to come". "And be relieved, you'll be able to play (aka spend all your money on) Magic cards for at least ten more years (when we will be introducing "Unreserved Wonders")".
I was really thinking the communication fiasco / lies post Mythics introduction ("those will never be staple tournament cards, they will focus on lore characters / flavor etc..." > Grim Flayer / Vengevine / Lotus Cobra / etc...) would make them think twice about taking everybody for a fool.
But maybe, I was wrong. Maybe we are all fools that are just about to be fooled again... and are already rushing to preorder a case (I had already planned to... know I'll think twice about it because my store credit will certainly be better used for more "stable" products).
Too sad we reached the point were the game greatness is not enough to sell products. Not sure it's such a good sign for the future of the game.
You don't HAVE to gamble.
You can simply sit back, let the people who like to gamble open boosters, and reap the reward of buying your standard deck at a lower price. If you DO like to gamble, well then its your choice and its presumably worth it to you to chase those ultra-rares.
What I really love about all this, is PR communication. This is fantastic (aka, tighten your asses). It's gonna be extremely healthy for the game (aka we will make more money and your bank account will eat dirt). Standard will be cheaper (aka totaly worthless). Blablabla.
True story : "We made the expeditions. And made *****load of money. BTW, Sorry for all those poor players who spend hundreds of dollars on an almost totaly worthless collection of garbage paper. But hey, at least, you had fun (or not since the eldrazi block was half full of *****)". "Then, we made the Return to Innistrad block and stupidly, we forgot to put more expeditions in them, and instead invested in great lore extension and fun / playable cards. As could be expected, we did far less sales as we did 6 months ago. Hopefuly, we learned from our mistakes and had a Fantastic idea !". "Now, we introduce 'Masterpieces". A fantastic neverending collection of overprice cards, partly bull***** ones, partly cards we just made you believe were temporarily available in a master set, that nobody will own but that everybody will desire. Of course, this will not help anyone to get out of print cards since they will be Worth 4x the normal price, and 16x more expensive if you try to obtain them via boosters. But hey, opening packs will be fun (the game is another story) and more important, that will make my employer, and hundreds of greedy investors, even more happy than last year. Meaning good things for my end year results bonus and for many years of more bull***** to come". "And be relieved, you'll be able to play (aka spend all your money on) Magic cards for at least ten more years (when we will be introducing "Unreserved Wonders")".
I was really thinking the communication fiasco / lies post Mythics introduction ("those will never be staple tournament cards, they will focus on lore characters / flavor etc..." > Grim Flayer / Vengevine / Lotus Cobra / etc...) would make them think twice about taking everybody for a fool.
But maybe, I was wrong. Maybe we are all fools that are just about to be fooled again... and are already rushing to preorder a case (I had already planned to... know I'll think twice about it because my store credit will certainly be better used for more "stable" products).
Too sad we reached the point were the game greatness is not enough to sell products. Not sure it's such a good sign for the future of the game.
They work so far in advance it was never something they could have fixed due to "sales" issues, it's nothing more than what they say it is - another way to get reprints of these cards onto the market while also making the other singles more available.
They're not required cards, they're exactly what the article says - special reprints for the collectors.
If people have a problem with something they're obviously just whiners, right?
My issue is that, as it was said in MaRo's article, he and WOTC see expeditions as a solution to the lack of availability for old cards that are in demand for eternal formats (see: Mana Crypt). That is a huge issue as expeditions most certainly [b]will not[/b] make these cards more accessible. We saw this already with expeditions in BFZ. People were lucky to pull [b]one[/b] expedition [b]out of an entire case[/b]. But it seems that, since MaRo saw fit to write a paragraph on his very subject in his article, WOTC does think this is a solution.
Saying "Hey, we're going to reprint these at other times too soon and we know this isn't at all going to help the availability of these cards(because it won't)" is a lot better than saying "Hey you know these exorbitantly expensive cards you need to play decks in eternal formats? Buy at least 144 booster backs and [b]maybe[/b] you can pull one!"[/b]. This isn't an accessibility solution and the fact that WOTC blatantly lists it as one is alarming.
Being told that WOTC understands that these older formats have a great wall sized barrier of entry and that they're going to have other means to fix that >>>> being pimped into buying tons of product because this is our "accessibility solution".
MaRo explicitly stated that this is only a small part of their efforts to make eternal formats more accessible in the article. So in this case, you happen to just be a whiner.
The rest of which remain to be seen. Rolling out an obvious golden ticket cash grab Willy Wonka style and calling it an accessibility solution is a sham and essentially an outright lie for reasons I already outlined.
Silver lining: This will theoretically make other cards from this set drop in secondary market price.
Attempting to call this a move for the accessibility of eternal formats is still garbadge. That was the entire point of my post, amigo.
MaRo is really good at presenting these things like amazing changes for the entire MTG community, but let's be serious. They saw the opportunity to sell more and went for it. For people who buy boxes/booster packs (like me), this is a bad change - opening packs is more of a lottery now. The expected value will always be around the same, as it always has been; but before, your box was a good box when it paid for itself with 2-3 good mythics, a chase rare, maybe a foil. Now, you either get a Masterpiece that pays for a whole display or more, or you get nothing. In other words, buy more boxes or you lose more money than before...
If you buy only 1 or 2 boxes per set, then yeah there's going to be more variance. Either you hit one or strike out, and if you don't like variance, then this may feel bad.
For people who buy cases though, the EV should more or less even out.
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this."
I don't exactly understand that part. How will expeditions make standard more accessible? Let's say that the Mechas become standard staples of tier-1, I don't see how the odds of getting one alternate in every other 144 booster will lower the price of the regular ones? Yes, you could sell one for 100$ and buuy your deck, but it's still very conditional. You would have a&) get one b) sell it.
Their thought process is that these will drive booster sales increasing supply. BFZ wasn't the greatest set but Gideon could be had for around $20 because it was opened alot due to the expeditions. Without them he would have been a much more expensive card seeing as for awhile he was a 4 of in three of tge top decks in the format. But if we dont flock to get the new packs with the shiny inventions that plan doesn't work.
The price of singles is determined by how desirable are the rest of the cards of a set. If a set has tons of garbage cards and only one chase mythic, then the chase mythic's price will shoot above the skyes in order to compensate for the lack of playables. So it follows that if there are lots of chase cards that sell for high prices, the average price for the rest of the set will be lower, even if there isn't a substantial increase in sales.
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Breathe in.
Breathe out.
Let your passion give you strength for the task at hand... And let the bashing begin!
That was not the meaning of my post : any player who wants to play, and that was A BIT serious about managing is collection, could make this game something other than a cash wormhole. Now, with the new block structure, and this new renamed Expedition bull*****, you'll buy cards that will be totaly worthless if you collect per booster. And A LOT of players are doing draft only (meaning "****you" with the new system).
The only players who gain from this are constructed players. And even that way, I'm not sure, because you'll have to wait quite some time for you cards to bottom before buying them... otherwise, you're as ****ed as the other ones since more time = more boxes opened and even lesser prices (look at eldrazi part 1 rare buylist prices). Even Siege rhino, a far above the curve card, is 1 dollar !
If you are a limited-only player then the long-term EV doesn't change. You'll experience more variance and through sheer luck you may do poorly in selling your cards after drafts in one block compared to another, but if you are a long-term player then over the years you'll open your share of money cards. I understand if you don't like the peaks and long valleys of more variance, but over time it evens out compared to how you did pre-expedition.
As for the new block structure, you didn't say exactly what problem you had with it, but if you prefer the old structure with 3 sets and a core set, you are in a VERY tiny minority. The new block structure is pretty much universally preferred among players.
But those Islands are gorgeous. Specifically the first two.
Why do you loathe it? Given how Blue it is I figured you'd like it. Unless you don't like UR.
I don't like planes like Kaladesh, Ravnica, Mirrodin, etc. I don't like Artifacts, UR, industry, etc. It's just aesthetically not pleasing to me in any of its themes. Planes I love are Theros, original Zendikar, Kamigawa, Ice Age Dominaraia, even Innistrad to an extent was interesting, both INN and AVR.
Hmm, interesting. Shows how diverse the color pie is though. Why I love seeing the way it bends on each plane. All I knew was you loved Blue, but it's clearly not as broad as I thought.
Though surprised the aesthetic isn't too your liking, it's not as in your face as usual artifacts.
For those that open a box or two to fill their constructed supply (for decks), don't lie and tell me you didn't secretly wished an expedition was inside... Or every pack that you crack...
Wizards has gotten us hooked on cardboard crack. They just baited us with a bigger hook.
As for people who really collect, yea it truly sucks. Much like how they did with the PR promos (though that was for the greater good). I can't see this as being the greater good.
As for foil treatment and what not, I hear you. Players calling for Damnation reprint. They gave you a freaking Judge foil.
Sounds like making a pact with the devil indeed. They twist your wishes and laugh. Really loudly.
As far as collecting goes, I do collect as well (only non-foil, I hate foil and I only need one of each card, I'm also not going back to old sets before I started playing, I don't feel a need to have all of unlimited for example). When expeditions came out, I had to think about it. I eventually decided that those do not count and I happily ignore them while continuing to collect as each set comes out. (It helps that I don't like foil anyway)
We can debate the impact on other kinds of players, but I do agree that for obsessive OCD collectors who absolutely must have every single card, this unambiguously sucks for them. To that, I have to just say: too bad. The benefits (both to the game and to the bottom line) outweigh the impact on this small subset of players.
We can debate the impact on other kinds of players, but I do agree that for obsessive OCD collectors who absolutely must have every single card, this unambiguously sucks for them. To that, I have to say that I feel sorry for you, but I believe that the benefits (both to the game and to the bottom line) outweigh the impact on this small subset of players.
I'm going to pretend that you worded it like that.
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Along with many mods, I've moved shop over to MTGNexus. Come check us out!
Hearing people misquote this gets tiring. Mark Rosewater never said that. Here is what he *actually* said, straight from the article:
"This now leads us to the next question: How are cards split between rare and mythic rare? Or more to the point, what kind of cards are going to become mythic rares? We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards."
And they have absolutely held true to that definition. You are remembering incorrectly.
I couldn't agree with you more - it is very tiring to hear people misquote this. Yes, some mythics are powerful tournament-level cards, but not all of them are. Some are super cheap bulk cards worth less than a dollar that fit the other parts of Maro's definition.
I was really thinking the communication fiasco / lies post Mythics introduction ("those will never be staple tournament cards, they will focus on lore characters / flavor etc..." > Grim Flayer / Vengevine / Lotus Cobra / etc...) would make them think twice about taking everybody for a fool.
Oh, look - another misquote! Your rage might be justified if he had said that, but he didn't.
I can understand that people get into heated arguments here, but please try to keep discussion civil!
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
*goes to MTGS*
*sees very large spoiler thread, wonders what is so juicy*
*sees durdly white thing and basic lands, now even more curious what the discussion is about*
*scrolls down*
*spit take*
"okay, now it makes sense."
I'm nowhere near as salty over these as many others here are.
The Expeditions were cool and all, but they aren't things I *need*,
despite my extreme collector tendencies.
These are similar.
It would be nice to have one, but I'm not upset that they exist and I don't have one.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
According to Number Crunch, Hangarback Walker will be not in the set. So, only possibility to get it is open it in booster pack if you lucky enough.
Or to buy one from Origins. Which is what they mean with the whole "It's accessible elsewhere" thing. You can't play it in Standard anyway as Origins rotates out and Masterworks series are not legal in Standard. Only in formats where their non-masterworks counterpart is legal.
There appears to be a lot of confusion here. The bottom line is simple. Yes, these cards will make buying loose boosters/single boxes a bigger gamble. Shops who buy massive quantities of boxes/cases will not feel a difference. People who crack packs just for draft + actual play also won't feel any difference. And BfZ has already proven that for people who get their cards from the secondary market, these things are a godsend as they keep prices of otherwise would-be-extreme-outliers (Oh hello there Gideon) in check.
The people who lose out by this change are the collectors - these things won't come cheap and having to collect about 100 cards more worth at least $10+ each year is going to hurt - and those who buy a single box hoping to crack some value. But that last group...honestly, you were playing a losing game to begin with.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
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Id much rather have them non foil.
No, but we may be in the minority. I also do not like foil cards. Well, I like that they exist because I can then trade or sell them for value, but I think that non-foil cards show off the art as the artist intended.
I think the solution is more about getting more people to draft because of the excitement of pulling one of these.
Also, somebody commented that these are replacing the foil mythics in packs. I don't see it that way, They should be showing up at roughly the same rate as foil mythics, and therefore in essence, "Double your mythic" pulls.
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Why shouldn't they be in every set? I have no use for half-art, modern border lands. So while I do like many of these basic artworks, I'll never play any of them over full arts or old bordered lands.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Hearing people misquote this gets tiring. Mark Rosewater never said that. Here is what he *actually* said, straight from the article:
"This now leads us to the next question: How are cards split between rare and mythic rare? Or more to the point, what kind of cards are going to become mythic rares? We want the flavor of mythic rare to be something that feels very special and unique. Generally speaking we expect that to mean cards like Planeswalkers, most legends, and epic-feeling creatures and spells. They will not just be a list of each set's most powerful tournament-level cards."
And they have absolutely held true to that definition. You are remembering incorrectly.
I wonder what will the excitement will be when they do away with the border completely for basic lands in a set. With the right art, how awesome would it be to have no borders at all on your basics?
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
OK, then how else am I supposed to interpret your response? I did not say or intend to imply that bulk rares do not exist.
If you are willing to agree that mythics and rares are generally going to be better than commons and uncommons, then the bolded part IS true. If you power up the commons and uncommons, that wont make them standard playable if the rares and mythics are powered up as well.
The ONLY way your response seemed, to me, to make sense (the bolded part is false because of bulk rares) is if you were arguing for rares and mythic rares to be lower power than commons and uncommons. I did not disingenuously set up a straw man to beat up on, I literally believed that was your vision.
Seems like people are confused about why not everyone likes the idea of Masterpieces every set. So let me try to explain my (our? At least 15 people as of this posting echoed my sentiments) rationale in a way that won't make people hate me.
First things first - I play the game. I enjoy playing the game. I'm not a millionaire investor, I'm a lower-middle-class dad who likes casting spells. That said, collecting, for me, has always (more than two decades, now) been a fun aspect of the game. It was fun to chase the last card I needed to complete my first set. Yes, it fed my OCD, but it was fun. And over the span of my career, most of my cards have gotten used in some fashion or another (even cards that are banned in Vintage - hello, janky casual Shahrazad deck!) - I've even played some fun games with my friends for ante.
Collecting isn't fun anymore. The change to the Judge exemplar program, making Judge foils really really expensive, was the first phase. "Every rare in the set can now be a prerelease card" was the second, and Expeditions were the third. Between all three of those, I really felt like WOTC was trying to get me to quit, so I said to myself "Okay, maybe instead of trying to get one of everything I'll just stick to collecting my angels, dragons, and legendaries." Now we get Expeditions every block? How long before the theme of the Masterwork set (fun fact: Decipher's LOTR TCG had alternate art/frame cards called Masterwork Foils back in 2014) is Angels, Dragons, or whatever it is that I'd decided to try to collect because I like the art?
Am I going to stop playing the game? Heck no - I still enjoy the spellslinging. But I am unable to continue playing a part of the game that I enjoyed - it doesn't matter if you enjoyed it or not, I did - and that makes me sad.
Edit: I'm not saying that YOU can't enjoy Expeditions (Masterworks, whatever). If you think that they're great, that's fine. Some of them are gorgeous, and if your favorite card gets the treatment and you open it in a pack, that's clearly very cool. This is why I don't like them. Nobody who posted and said "I love more Expeditions!" is wrong. They're right too.
(I echo the poster who fears for their wallet if they ever print a masterpiece Angel...)
You don't HAVE to gamble.
You can simply sit back, let the people who like to gamble open boosters, and reap the reward of buying your standard deck at a lower price. If you DO like to gamble, well then its your choice and its presumably worth it to you to chase those ultra-rares.
They work so far in advance it was never something they could have fixed due to "sales" issues, it's nothing more than what they say it is - another way to get reprints of these cards onto the market while also making the other singles more available.
They're not required cards, they're exactly what the article says - special reprints for the collectors.
Silver lining: This will theoretically make other cards from this set drop in secondary market price.
Attempting to call this a move for the accessibility of eternal formats is still garbadge. That was the entire point of my post, amigo.
-Chandra Nalaar
If you buy only 1 or 2 boxes per set, then yeah there's going to be more variance. Either you hit one or strike out, and if you don't like variance, then this may feel bad.
For people who buy cases though, the EV should more or less even out.
The price of singles is determined by how desirable are the rest of the cards of a set. If a set has tons of garbage cards and only one chase mythic, then the chase mythic's price will shoot above the skyes in order to compensate for the lack of playables. So it follows that if there are lots of chase cards that sell for high prices, the average price for the rest of the set will be lower, even if there isn't a substantial increase in sales.
Breathe out.
Let your passion give you strength for the task at hand... And let the bashing begin!
If you are a limited-only player then the long-term EV doesn't change. You'll experience more variance and through sheer luck you may do poorly in selling your cards after drafts in one block compared to another, but if you are a long-term player then over the years you'll open your share of money cards. I understand if you don't like the peaks and long valleys of more variance, but over time it evens out compared to how you did pre-expedition.
As for the new block structure, you didn't say exactly what problem you had with it, but if you prefer the old structure with 3 sets and a core set, you are in a VERY tiny minority. The new block structure is pretty much universally preferred among players.
Hmm, interesting. Shows how diverse the color pie is though. Why I love seeing the way it bends on each plane. All I knew was you loved Blue, but it's clearly not as broad as I thought.
Though surprised the aesthetic isn't too your liking, it's not as in your face as usual artifacts.
Wizards has gotten us hooked on cardboard crack. They just baited us with a bigger hook.
As for people who really collect, yea it truly sucks. Much like how they did with the PR promos (though that was for the greater good). I can't see this as being the greater good.
As for foil treatment and what not, I hear you. Players calling for Damnation reprint. They gave you a freaking Judge foil.
Sounds like making a pact with the devil indeed. They twist your wishes and laugh. Really loudly.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
We can debate the impact on other kinds of players, but I do agree that for obsessive OCD collectors who absolutely must have every single card, this unambiguously sucks for them. To that, I have to just say: too bad. The benefits (both to the game and to the bottom line) outweigh the impact on this small subset of players.
I'm going to pretend that you worded it like that.
Oh, look - another misquote! Your rage might be justified if he had said that, but he didn't.
2023 Average Peasant Cube|and Discussion
Because I have more decks than fit in a signature
Useful Resources:
MTGSalvation tags
EDHREC
ManabaseCrafter
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
*sees very large spoiler thread, wonders what is so juicy*
*sees durdly white thing and basic lands, now even more curious what the discussion is about*
*scrolls down*
*spit take*
"okay, now it makes sense."
I'm nowhere near as salty over these as many others here are.
The Expeditions were cool and all, but they aren't things I *need*,
despite my extreme collector tendencies.
These are similar.
It would be nice to have one, but I'm not upset that they exist and I don't have one.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Or to buy one from Origins. Which is what they mean with the whole "It's accessible elsewhere" thing. You can't play it in Standard anyway as Origins rotates out and Masterworks series are not legal in Standard. Only in formats where their non-masterworks counterpart is legal.
There appears to be a lot of confusion here. The bottom line is simple. Yes, these cards will make buying loose boosters/single boxes a bigger gamble. Shops who buy massive quantities of boxes/cases will not feel a difference. People who crack packs just for draft + actual play also won't feel any difference. And BfZ has already proven that for people who get their cards from the secondary market, these things are a godsend as they keep prices of otherwise would-be-extreme-outliers (Oh hello there Gideon) in check.
The people who lose out by this change are the collectors - these things won't come cheap and having to collect about 100 cards more worth at least $10+ each year is going to hurt - and those who buy a single box hoping to crack some value. But that last group...honestly, you were playing a losing game to begin with.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.