Aether Vial seems like an obvious inclusion on multiple levels.
I'm extremely neutral on the ongoing Masterpieces - I'm largely a "play what I pull" casual player, so arguments of price don't really matter to me one way or the other. I remember an LGS I used to go to having concerns about drafting in an Expedition set, since the "official" draft is apparently supposed to have a rare re-draft at the end (which I understand, but I also disagree with: like I said, I generally want to be able to play what I pull), and the super-rare and pricey cards make that really awkward, but I don't really do drafts anyway, so...*shrug*
There will probably be a bit of feel-bad seeing other people pull them if I don't, but that's true of plenty of normal cards anyway. In this particular case, I feel like I'll want at least one purely because it sounds like the foiling and border will be incredibly gorgeous; unlike the Expeditions, just getting one would probably matter more to me than which one I get. I don't go out of my way to pimp my decks (caring about a deck being all-foil when my decks are pretty cobbled-together in the first place feels kind of silly), but I'm not going to complain if I luck into something shiny.
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"The true measure of all heroes is not what they achieve, but who they inspire." —Triumph of Gerrard
Rather than printing Standard playable commons and uncommons, lets just milk people who like to play the booster pack lottery.
That does not work. Whatever is rare and mythic rare still needs to be better than common and uncommon, and then THOSE super-powerful rare cards would now be the "new standard playable", and those powerful common and uncommons you are thinking about would no longer be standard playable.
Mythic rare was just a stepping stone eh?
Probably should have seen this coming, it makes sense with their market research
This is really not the same thing though. Mythic rare means it is harder to get the cards and therefore more difficult to play the deck you want. For this, although it is even harder to get, you can just get a regular version of it at the regular rarity. If they printed exclusive playable cards in something like this, players would be (rightfully) outraged, but as they are doing it now, it is pretty much all upside. Some will get lucky and find one, other will not get lucky and get something they would normally have gotten anyway.
If people have a problem with something they're obviously just whiners, right?
My issue is that, as it was said in MaRo's article, he and WOTC see expeditions as a solution to the lack of availability for old cards that are in demand for eternal formats (see: Mana Crypt). That is a huge issue as expeditions most certainly [b]will not[/b] make these cards more accessible. We saw this already with expeditions in BFZ. People were lucky to pull [b]one[/b] expedition [b]out of an entire case[/b]. But it seems that, since MaRo saw fit to write a paragraph on his very subject in his article, WOTC does think this is a solution.
Saying "Hey, we're going to reprint these at other times too soon and we know this isn't at all going to help the availability of these cards(because it won't)" is a lot better than saying "Hey you know these exorbitantly expensive cards you need to play decks in eternal formats? Buy at least 144 booster backs and [b]maybe[/b] you can pull one!"[/b]. This isn't an accessibility solution and the fact that WOTC blatantly lists it as one is alarming.
Being told that WOTC understands that these older formats have a great wall sized barrier of entry and that they're going to have other means to fix that >>>> being pimped into buying tons of product because this is our "accessibility solution".
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"Pop in, find a dragon, roast a dragon."
-Chandra Nalaar
I don't think people quite understand just how much of a win-win these things are. There is no universe where you *need* a Masterpiece printing for any reason at all, so these are just pure upside. If Wizards printed Masterpiece-exclusive cards, that would be horrible and I'd be complaining loudly, but if they're reprints they just mean that standard will be cheaper, and I have a chance of opening a 100 dollar card when I'm opening a box. And unlike BFZ, this set looks great even without the masterpieces, so there's no worry in my mind this time like there was last time that they're just trying to sell a subpar set with a gimmick.
I think people are overreacting to the idea of a 'fifth rarity', this really isn't that. The only possible downside this could bring could be that Wizards stops reprinting staples from other formats, but between the Masters Series and products like Conspiracy, I doubt that'll be the case. This is just extra gravy for the players, and it'll sell more packs for Wizards.
Northjayhawk is correct. Humans will do incorrect things based on random chance benefitting them. I've done so myself lately, joining an Eldritch Moon draft and grabbing a few more Eldritch Moom boosters on the odds of getting a Lily or Emrakul. I'll likely join two prereleases instead of one and go form there. Oddly enough I virtually never buy lottery tickets though, since the odds of winnning anything substatial are essentially nil.
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The "Crazy One", playing casual magic and occasionally dipping his toes into regular play since 1994.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
The first is the number of these things. There are more of these in a set than there are mythics, and it's approaching the number of rares that are in the set. But they're seen in a ridiculously low number. These number seem extremely untenable. Especially if they're being used for every set from now on. Which brings me to point 2.
Are these going to maintain their excitement level? Mythics are interesting because they're generally new, highly powerful cards. These are some new, some old, with fancy new art. If full art basic lands lose their special appeal by appearing in every set, what will make the masterpiece series different (aside from the obvious rarity aspect)?
I trust Wizards, but I'd be lying if I said this whole thing didn't make me super nervous.
Full art basics aren't comparable because there's 5 basics. The expiditions will be picked from the whole pool of good cards.
Mana crypt is so broken. My first thought was affinity, but after thinking about it even more, it's going to enable so much potential combo in modern and probably even legacy.
lol, you can't be serious. You are implying that one of the most broken cards in Magic history, and one that is banned in all formats and restricted in Vintage, would "enable" Modern decks and be legal in Standard. A 0 mana artifact sol ring that enables t1 Jace Mind Sculptors. haha!!
If Wizards was more keen on reprinting things, I think the level of complaints would be less.
But because they don't, I feel like most people complaining are afraid that these will be the only ways/times certain cards get reprinted.
Masters sets don't reduce value or increase availability as much as desired (if at all.) Expeditions don't reduce value or increase availability as much as desired.
It's cold comfort being told that the cards have a chance to be reprinted elsewhere when we've seen little evidence that they're doing that.
And some of that is on the fact that we can't see everything they're doing, know what they're trying, etc. But still...
If people have a problem with something they're obviously just whiners, right?
My issue is that, as it was said in MaRo's article, he and WOTC see expeditions as a solution to the lack of availability for old cards that are in demand for eternal formats (see: Mana Crypt). That is a huge issue as expeditions most certainly [b]will not[/b] make these cards more accessible. We saw this already with expeditions in BFZ. People were lucky to pull [b]one[/b] expedition [b]out of an entire case[/b]. But it seems that, since MaRo saw fit to write a paragraph on his very subject in his article, WOTC does think this is a solution.
Saying "Hey, we're going to reprint these at other times too soon and we know this isn't at all going to help the availability of these cards(because it won't)" is a lot better than saying "Hey you know these exorbitantly expensive cards you need to play decks in eternal formats? Buy at least 144 booster backs and [b]maybe[/b] you can pull one!"[/b]. This isn't an accessibility solution and the fact that WOTC blatantly lists it as one is alarming.
Being told that WOTC understands that these older formats have a great wall sized barrier of entry and that they're going to have other means to fix that >>>> being pimped into buying tons of product because this is our "accessibility solution".
I do not believe you are correct. If you were thinking about you opening a mana crypt that you needed, well thats just not realistic so I'll assume you are talking about the secondary market and that you think this won't noticeably impact the price of mana crypt.
I believe you are wrong. Yeah 1 in 5,000-something boosters sounds pretty rare, but we're talking about millions of boosters opened all over the world. We're probably going to see thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mana crypts released into the wild. You'll have a few rich hoarders who will buy the blingy mana crypt and keep their old ones, but most people who just want to build a deck will choose one or the other. More supply, pretty much same demand.
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this.
If people have a problem with something they're obviously just whiners, right?
My issue is that, as it was said in MaRo's article, he and WOTC see expeditions as a solution to the lack of availability for old cards that are in demand for eternal formats (see: Mana Crypt). That is a huge issue as expeditions most certainly [b]will not[/b] make these cards more accessible. We saw this already with expeditions in BFZ. People were lucky to pull [b]one[/b] expedition [b]out of an entire case[/b]. But it seems that, since MaRo saw fit to write a paragraph on his very subject in his article, WOTC does think this is a solution.
Saying "Hey, we're going to reprint these at other times too soon and we know this isn't at all going to help the availability of these cards(because it won't)" is a lot better than saying "Hey you know these exorbitantly expensive cards you need to play decks in eternal formats? Buy at least 144 booster backs and [b]maybe[/b] you can pull one!"[/b]. This isn't an accessibility solution and the fact that WOTC blatantly lists it as one is alarming.
Being told that WOTC understands that these older formats have a great wall sized barrier of entry and that they're going to have other means to fix that >>>> being pimped into buying tons of product because this is our "accessibility solution".
MaRo explicitly stated that this is only a small part of their efforts to make eternal formats more accessible in the article. So in this case, you happen to just be a whiner.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
People complaining about expedition being super rare don't understand their purpose. They are here to drive up demand for the set in order to lower the price of standaRd cards and staples. People are going to be opening many boxes of KLD now, making standard accessible. It's a good thing.
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this.
Anyone able to explain to me how that works?
Expeditions caused people to buy WAY more BFZ than they would have. A LOT more boosters were opened, and prices for other BFZ cards cratered. So, it was cheaper for people to buy BFZ cards they needed for their decks, making standard "more accessible"
Obviously if people do not care about the inventions and do not end up buying more Kaladesh than they would have, then the argument is no longer valid, but a lot of people love to gamble, so I think it will have an effect.
Maro could have just come right out and said "yall are going to buy WAY more product because of this, thats gonna be awesome!", but that would have sounded a bit too crass, so he kinda hinted at it, and we got the message.
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this.
Anyone able to explain to me how that works?
Make more people open packs, the cards become more common and lose value. He explains it later in the piece.
Ah, thank you. I only skimmed it.
But ... don't they always sell out their print run anyway?
Rather than printing Standard playable commons and uncommons, lets just milk people who like to play the booster pack lottery.
That does not work. Whatever is rare and mythic rare still needs to be better than common and uncommon, and then THOSE super-powerful rare cards would now be the "new standard playable", and those powerful common and uncommons you are thinking about would no longer be standard playable.
The bolded part is false. Bulk rares and mythics will always exist. Look at the average standard deck, just about everything aside from basic lands is rare or mythic these days.
Those Kaladesh inventions are far more beautiful than the Zendikar expeditions. I will actually want these in my deck. Too many expeditions had hedrons all over the place.
I wonder if Karn Liberated will make an appearance? He is an artifact in his other incarnation as Karn, Silver Golem (which cannot be here since its on the reserved list) and I assume the only reason why WOTC dropped his Artifact type for the Planeswalker version was either because it played havoc with the rules or was broken when you take in to account how many cards there are that reduce the cost of artifact.
I'm really interested to see if any artifacts from New Phyrexia make it in as a masterpiece. Swords like the Sword of War and Peace I feel would be okay as I could understand someone on Kaladesh building that, but the implications of a living weapon or a creature with infect showing up like Batterskull & Blightsteel Colossus would mean that either the Phyrexians had found a way to travel the blind eternities or that Tezzeret brought some gifts with him to the fair, heck even the appearance of Mycosynth Lattice or Mycosynth Golem would be disconcerting news for the plane.
Rather than printing Standard playable commons and uncommons, lets just milk people who like to play the booster pack lottery.
That does not work. Whatever is rare and mythic rare still needs to be better than common and uncommon, and then THOSE super-powerful rare cards would now be the "new standard playable", and those powerful common and uncommons you are thinking about would no longer be standard playable.
The bolded part is false. Bulk rares and mythics will always exist. Look at the average standard deck, just about everything aside from basic lands is rare or mythic these days.
The bolded part is true. If you believe that they should make a set where literally every rare and mythic rare is a bulk rare and the ONLY standard playable cards are at common and uncommon, then you have a vision for a game that I don't think many other players share. It would also make limited a lot less fun and interesting, the format would get stale very quickly.
I was only going to buy a few singles from this set, but masterpieces mean I will probably do a couple prerelease and maybe get a box. I really want a masterpiece darksteel relic
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this.
Anyone able to explain to me how that works?
Expeditions caused people to buy WAY more BFZ than they would have. A LOT more boosters were opened, and prices for other BFZ cards cratered. So, it was cheaper for people to buy BFZ cards they needed for their decks, making standard "more accessible"
Obviously if people do not care about the inventions and do not end up buying more Kaladesh than they would have, then the argument is no longer valid, but a lot of people love to gamble, so I think it will have an effect.
Obviously Maro could have just come right out and said "yall are going to buy WAY more product because of this, thats gonna be awesome!", but that would have sounded a bit too crass, so he kinda hinted at it, and we got the message.
Pretty much this. BFZ was a weak as hell set. My friend and I were stupid enough to buy a case to see how many we cold crack. What we got? Arid Mesa and Cinder glade. And two players of dragon master outcast. Also to the people comparing this to the whole 100 dollar being folded crap, need to shut up. This is not the same. No one is gonna care if the 100 is folded weird or rolled up weird as long as it's good enough to exchange to the bank and get a new one. Am I guaranteed $100 when I open a kaladesh pack? No. Do I wish they would give at least one masterpiece per pack? Of course I would but wizards will never do that. These masterpieces don't drive down the price of the original card for crap. It will have its own premium due to the rarity. Misty rainforest the expedition version is still worth crazy money as the regular versions.
This only benefits people who crack packs in bulk or draft like fiends. This doesn't bring anyone closer to being able to play Standard unless you get lucky and crack something to sell it immediately.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
I mean, some people will inevitably buy more product because these epic rares are in the set and some people are addicted to gambling, which is what this is when it comes to packs. How can epic rares really be all that bad? Only way I can think of is if they print epic rares in some set and then don't release said card in a masters set because they were printed as epic rares recently, but we'll see how it goes.
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"Yawgmoth," Freyalise whispered as she set the bomb, "now you will pay for your treachery."
I'm extremely neutral on the ongoing Masterpieces - I'm largely a "play what I pull" casual player, so arguments of price don't really matter to me one way or the other. I remember an LGS I used to go to having concerns about drafting in an Expedition set, since the "official" draft is apparently supposed to have a rare re-draft at the end (which I understand, but I also disagree with: like I said, I generally want to be able to play what I pull), and the super-rare and pricey cards make that really awkward, but I don't really do drafts anyway, so...*shrug*
There will probably be a bit of feel-bad seeing other people pull them if I don't, but that's true of plenty of normal cards anyway. In this particular case, I feel like I'll want at least one purely because it sounds like the foiling and border will be incredibly gorgeous; unlike the Expeditions, just getting one would probably matter more to me than which one I get. I don't go out of my way to pimp my decks (caring about a deck being all-foil when my decks are pretty cobbled-together in the first place feels kind of silly), but I'm not going to complain if I luck into something shiny.
I'm fine with more cards at expedition rarity in the future, as long as
- "on-demand" cards are still reprinted in regular sets if possible
- they thematically fit in the set they're in
and most importantly
- the rarity is exclusively for reprints
That does not work. Whatever is rare and mythic rare still needs to be better than common and uncommon, and then THOSE super-powerful rare cards would now be the "new standard playable", and those powerful common and uncommons you are thinking about would no longer be standard playable.
This is really not the same thing though. Mythic rare means it is harder to get the cards and therefore more difficult to play the deck you want. For this, although it is even harder to get, you can just get a regular version of it at the regular rarity. If they printed exclusive playable cards in something like this, players would be (rightfully) outraged, but as they are doing it now, it is pretty much all upside. Some will get lucky and find one, other will not get lucky and get something they would normally have gotten anyway.
My issue is that, as it was said in MaRo's article, he and WOTC see expeditions as a solution to the lack of availability for old cards that are in demand for eternal formats (see: Mana Crypt). That is a huge issue as expeditions most certainly [b]will not[/b] make these cards more accessible. We saw this already with expeditions in BFZ. People were lucky to pull [b]one[/b] expedition [b]out of an entire case[/b]. But it seems that, since MaRo saw fit to write a paragraph on his very subject in his article, WOTC does think this is a solution.
Saying "Hey, we're going to reprint these at other times too soon and we know this isn't at all going to help the availability of these cards(because it won't)" is a lot better than saying "Hey you know these exorbitantly expensive cards you need to play decks in eternal formats? Buy at least 144 booster backs and [b]maybe[/b] you can pull one!"[/b]. This isn't an accessibility solution and the fact that WOTC blatantly lists it as one is alarming.
Being told that WOTC understands that these older formats have a great wall sized barrier of entry and that they're going to have other means to fix that >>>> being pimped into buying tons of product because this is our "accessibility solution".
-Chandra Nalaar
I think people are overreacting to the idea of a 'fifth rarity', this really isn't that. The only possible downside this could bring could be that Wizards stops reprinting staples from other formats, but between the Masters Series and products like Conspiracy, I doubt that'll be the case. This is just extra gravy for the players, and it'll sell more packs for Wizards.
Currently focusing on Pre-Modern (Mono-Black Discard Control) and Modern (Azorious Control, Temur Rhinos).
Find me at the Wizard's Tower in Ottawa every second Saturday afternoons.
lol, you can't be serious. You are implying that one of the most broken cards in Magic history, and one that is banned in all formats and restricted in Vintage, would "enable" Modern decks and be legal in Standard. A 0 mana artifact sol ring that enables t1 Jace Mind Sculptors. haha!!
But because they don't, I feel like most people complaining are afraid that these will be the only ways/times certain cards get reprinted.
Masters sets don't reduce value or increase availability as much as desired (if at all.) Expeditions don't reduce value or increase availability as much as desired.
It's cold comfort being told that the cards have a chance to be reprinted elsewhere when we've seen little evidence that they're doing that.
And some of that is on the fact that we can't see everything they're doing, know what they're trying, etc. But still...
I do not believe you are correct. If you were thinking about you opening a mana crypt that you needed, well thats just not realistic so I'll assume you are talking about the secondary market and that you think this won't noticeably impact the price of mana crypt.
I believe you are wrong. Yeah 1 in 5,000-something boosters sounds pretty rare, but we're talking about millions of boosters opened all over the world. We're probably going to see thousands, maybe tens of thousands of mana crypts released into the wild. You'll have a few rich hoarders who will buy the blingy mana crypt and keep their old ones, but most people who just want to build a deck will choose one or the other. More supply, pretty much same demand.
Challenge #1: Keeping Standard Accessible
Standard is the most-played Constructed format. It's designed as an entry point for players who wish to play Constructed Magic. Through market research and social media, we learned that many of the players who were interested in playing Standard felt it was something beyond their reach. We had to find ways to address this.
Anyone able to explain to me how that works?
MaRo explicitly stated that this is only a small part of their efforts to make eternal formats more accessible in the article. So in this case, you happen to just be a whiner.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Expeditions caused people to buy WAY more BFZ than they would have. A LOT more boosters were opened, and prices for other BFZ cards cratered. So, it was cheaper for people to buy BFZ cards they needed for their decks, making standard "more accessible"
Obviously if people do not care about the inventions and do not end up buying more Kaladesh than they would have, then the argument is no longer valid, but a lot of people love to gamble, so I think it will have an effect.
Maro could have just come right out and said "yall are going to buy WAY more product because of this, thats gonna be awesome!", but that would have sounded a bit too crass, so he kinda hinted at it, and we got the message.
Ah, thank you. I only skimmed it.
But ... don't they always sell out their print run anyway?
Oh my god. If they put Coalition Relic in this I'll be broke. You ruined my high.
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
The bolded part is false. Bulk rares and mythics will always exist. Look at the average standard deck, just about everything aside from basic lands is rare or mythic these days.
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I'm really interested to see if any artifacts from New Phyrexia make it in as a masterpiece. Swords like the Sword of War and Peace I feel would be okay as I could understand someone on Kaladesh building that, but the implications of a living weapon or a creature with infect showing up like Batterskull & Blightsteel Colossus would mean that either the Phyrexians had found a way to travel the blind eternities or that Tezzeret brought some gifts with him to the fair, heck even the appearance of Mycosynth Lattice or Mycosynth Golem would be disconcerting news for the plane.
The bolded part is true. If you believe that they should make a set where literally every rare and mythic rare is a bulk rare and the ONLY standard playable cards are at common and uncommon, then you have a vision for a game that I don't think many other players share. It would also make limited a lot less fun and interesting, the format would get stale very quickly.
Pretty much this. BFZ was a weak as hell set. My friend and I were stupid enough to buy a case to see how many we cold crack. What we got? Arid Mesa and Cinder glade. And two players of dragon master outcast. Also to the people comparing this to the whole 100 dollar being folded crap, need to shut up. This is not the same. No one is gonna care if the 100 is folded weird or rolled up weird as long as it's good enough to exchange to the bank and get a new one. Am I guaranteed $100 when I open a kaladesh pack? No. Do I wish they would give at least one masterpiece per pack? Of course I would but wizards will never do that. These masterpieces don't drive down the price of the original card for crap. It will have its own premium due to the rarity. Misty rainforest the expedition version is still worth crazy money as the regular versions.
This only benefits people who crack packs in bulk or draft like fiends. This doesn't bring anyone closer to being able to play Standard unless you get lucky and crack something to sell it immediately.
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1/144 is .6% per pack. x3 is approx 2%
At a table it is 16.6% that one will be opened. That means that one every 6 drafts someone is going to be very happy. That seems like fun!
If you draft once a week and the odds are the same across sets chances are you open one a year or so.