Well, it speaks volumes as to whether energy will be parasitic or not when so many cards get evaluated with the end analysis of "This isn't good enough on its own but might work in an energy deck". I think maro has been really disingenuous as to how insular the mechanic is if the cards have to be balanced around energy tribal and aren't strong enough to work in a vacuum. On its own, this is even more of a dead draw lategame than shrine of burning rage, but yes it could be a better topdeck in an energy deck, and unleash more more throughout the game if built around. But that concerns me as to the wider nature of this set.
That's a fair point. I'm not saying it isn't "good enough" on its own, just that it is possible that the damage ability is just gravy on top of a really good energy generator. But to avoid being parasitic, you're right that these cards would need to have a fair mix of generation and payoff on the same card. This is on the right track, but maybe not tier one.
What are the spoiled energy cards that represent a real payoff? So far I haven't noticed anything that looks like it works out of an all in energy deck.
Not sure yet. Maybe that elf that pumps out 6/6 tokens, but it requires a fairly large energy investment to work. Maybe there's an X spell (damage, token making, card draw?) where X can be both mana and some amount of energy.
Not a huge payoff, but the undercosted haste dude that eats 2 energy a turn would seem to like an artifact that makes 2 energy every time you cast a burn spell. Not a huge combo but a synergy that could work in a burn/energy deck.
What are the spoiled energy cards that represent a real payoff? So far I haven't noticed anything that looks like it works out of an all in energy deck.
There are no spoiled cards that transform reasonably large amounts of energy into winning the game. The best unrestricted clauses you can come up with are territorial gorger if you can produce it in one turn, but can't spend it, or bristling hydra which is inordinately inefficient and gets easily chumped anyway
I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally avoid any pay-day cards to keep energy from being degenerate
Keep in mind there is Thermo alchemist decks and if energy becomes a key piece in the deck then that deck could use it but it is currently a big if. So how good this is depends on the rest of the set.
What are the spoiled energy cards that represent a real payoff? So far I haven't noticed anything that looks like it works out of an all in energy deck.
There are no spoiled cards that transform reasonably large amounts of energy into winning the game. The best unrestricted clauses you can come up with are territorial gorger if you can produce it in one turn, but can't spend it, or bristling hydra which is inordinately inefficient and gets easily chumped anyway
I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally avoid any pay-day cards to keep energy from being degenerate
This is a payoff card. In a slow grindy deck this either burns out a creature or deals 3 to the opponent on a fairly regular basis (every turn with enough energy generation in the deck). Aetherworks Marvel is another one considering we have Emrakul and Ulamog in standard. With the right deck using that may end up being more consistent than ramp to get them out (especially since we're losing Nissa's pilgrimage and explosive vegetation). Although a deck like that would need a way to get ulamogs and emrakuls in their hand back into their deck, and I'm not sure there's a consistent way of doing that right now.
As of now most of the energy cards just get small, incremental advantages, not some big blowout. I think that's a good thing, though. With the way things are looking it will be very easy to make a lot of energy very quickly. Having something that just straight up ends the game with energy (like this card, if it didn't tap) would probably be absurd.
I really like the look of this card. Could make energy a viable deck. All I want now is a UU counter spell that requires EEE as an additional cost to cast.
What are the spoiled energy cards that represent a real payoff? So far I haven't noticed anything that looks like it works out of an all in energy deck.
There are no spoiled cards that transform reasonably large amounts of energy into winning the game. The best unrestricted clauses you can come up with are territorial gorger if you can produce it in one turn, but can't spend it, or bristling hydra which is inordinately inefficient and gets easily chumped anyway
I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally avoid any pay-day cards to keep energy from being degenerate
This is a payoff card. In a slow grindy deck this either burns out a creature or deals 3 to the opponent on a fairly regular basis (every turn with enough energy generation in the deck). Aetherworks Marvel is another one considering we have Emrakul and Ulamog in standard. With the right deck using that may end up being more consistent than ramp to get them out (especially since we're losing Nissa's pilgrimage and explosive vegetation). Although a deck like that would need a way to get ulamogs and emrakuls in their hand back into their deck, and I'm not sure there's a consistent way of doing that right now.
As of now most of the energy cards just get small, incremental advantages, not some big blowout. I think that's a good thing, though. With the way things are looking it will be very easy to make a lot of energy very quickly. Having something that just straight up ends the game with energy (like this card, if it didn't tap) would probably be absurd.
If this didn't have a tap symbol, it could be a payoff card. As is, even if you have an infinite supply of energy, its just the same speed as a caustic tar (or creeping tar pit). You can maybe zap some board, but for closing out the game its a 7 turn clock. What the energy cards lack so far is a real energy sink that can win you the game for generating a bunch. Theres no card that makes you say "well if there were good energy generators to enable it, this thing could blow the game open"
So, this and Aetherworks Marvel can allow you to free cast stuff really quickly by spamming lots of cheap and/or reusable spells. Shoot, you could cast a big instant or sorcery off the Marvel and get even more energy counters. Outside Standard, Isochron Scepter can really help by giving you a repeatable instant.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Is that a Van de Graaff generator?
I'd love to see Tezzeret judging that thing (think what it would do to his dreadlocks... unamused Tezz is unamused)...
I run a Zada, Hedron GriderSilverfur Partisan deck and this mixed with the Harnessed Lightning will allow 3 damage every turn. Now if only I could find a card in standard that lets me untap it at least once more per turn would be wonderful.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
So it seems like Tezzeret-related cards in this set like instants and sorceries. Interesting interesting. Probably nothing noteworthy here...interesting though
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The true mind can weather all the lies and illusions without being lost. The true heart can tough the poison of hatred without being harmed. Since beginning-less time, darkness thrives in the void but always yields to purifying light.
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
I realized if you play mono-red ish with 4x Aether Hubs the requirements becomes a little better (particularly the annoying 5th energy) and even manage to sneak in some colorless mana eldrazi
I don't mind durdling in turn 3 if that means setting up for a powerful turn 4. This makes harness lightning deal 5 damage to a single target. Also, this works well in multiples.
I will probably play a red burn deck. "turn 4 axe your minion, temper you, generate 4 energy, untap my pinger twice, cast harness lightning, deal you another 9, untap my pinger again, for a total of 16 damage"
Edited:
It seems that the good part of this card is not the "tap to deal 3 damage" but the "whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell generate 2 energy" as 5 spells only net you 6 extra damage. I do like the interaction with harness lightning, but that may be not because Dynavolt tower is good, but because harness lightning is awesome.
Ooooh, so you play this artifact, and then you play instants and sorceries, and then you can deal damage!
Pretty novel, pretty amazing, I'm so glad they came up with energy counters and the new symbols! Magic hasn't jumped the shark and there's so much more design space to explore!!!!
Ooooh, so you play this artifact, and then you play instants and sorceries, and then you can deal damage!
Pretty novel, pretty amazing, I'm so glad they came up with energy counters and the new symbols! Magic hasn't jumped the shark and there's so much more design space to explore!!!!
I'm pretty sure this is sarcastic, but I can't tell. I actually do like energy, but I really dislike new symbols. Not introducing new symbols is something Magic is usually really good at, and it keeps the game accessible.
Well, I found the card designed specifically for me in this set. It's not a Storm card, since it has to tap, but it does still reward casting loads of instants and sorceries, so it's right up my alley.
Edit: Also, is that flavortext a pun on potential energy? Because if so, then this card is even more up my alley.
Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I'm speculating here, but from the flavor text, it seems Tezzeret is getting the inventors to harness aether energy from the plane without the Consulate's permission, so Bolas can restore himself to full power. If I remember correctly, Bolas tried to harness the energy of the conflux on Alara, but Ajani fought him off. It looks like Bolas is still looking for energon cubes.
Alternatively, he's looking for a way to fight Nicol Bolas and get out from under his thrall. Tezz is a selfish guy, after all.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Scepter-Lightning does provide a cheap, resuable source of energy, however. Faster than those other spells with the Tower. You basically choose between "5+ to a creature" or "3 to a player".
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
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That's a fair point. I'm not saying it isn't "good enough" on its own, just that it is possible that the damage ability is just gravy on top of a really good energy generator. But to avoid being parasitic, you're right that these cards would need to have a fair mix of generation and payoff on the same card. This is on the right track, but maybe not tier one.
Not sure yet. Maybe that elf that pumps out 6/6 tokens, but it requires a fairly large energy investment to work. Maybe there's an X spell (damage, token making, card draw?) where X can be both mana and some amount of energy.
Not a huge payoff, but the undercosted haste dude that eats 2 energy a turn would seem to like an artifact that makes 2 energy every time you cast a burn spell. Not a huge combo but a synergy that could work in a burn/energy deck.
There are no spoiled cards that transform reasonably large amounts of energy into winning the game. The best unrestricted clauses you can come up with are territorial gorger if you can produce it in one turn, but can't spend it, or bristling hydra which is inordinately inefficient and gets easily chumped anyway
I wouldn't be surprised if they intentionally avoid any pay-day cards to keep energy from being degenerate
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GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
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R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
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This is a payoff card. In a slow grindy deck this either burns out a creature or deals 3 to the opponent on a fairly regular basis (every turn with enough energy generation in the deck). Aetherworks Marvel is another one considering we have Emrakul and Ulamog in standard. With the right deck using that may end up being more consistent than ramp to get them out (especially since we're losing Nissa's pilgrimage and explosive vegetation). Although a deck like that would need a way to get ulamogs and emrakuls in their hand back into their deck, and I'm not sure there's a consistent way of doing that right now.
As of now most of the energy cards just get small, incremental advantages, not some big blowout. I think that's a good thing, though. With the way things are looking it will be very easy to make a lot of energy very quickly. Having something that just straight up ends the game with energy (like this card, if it didn't tap) would probably be absurd.
If this didn't have a tap symbol, it could be a payoff card. As is, even if you have an infinite supply of energy, its just the same speed as a caustic tar (or creeping tar pit). You can maybe zap some board, but for closing out the game its a 7 turn clock. What the energy cards lack so far is a real energy sink that can win you the game for generating a bunch. Theres no card that makes you say "well if there were good energy generators to enable it, this thing could blow the game open"
Limited bomb, for sure.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I'd love to see Tezzeret judging that thing (think what it would do to his dreadlocks... unamused Tezz is unamused)...
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I thought it was four energy. And here I wanted to copy it with Saheeli Rai, play a couple spells, and gun down my opponent's board.
-Chandra Nalaar
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
I will probably play a red burn deck. "turn 4 axe your minion, temper you, generate 4 energy, untap my pinger twice, cast harness lightning, deal you another 9, untap my pinger again, for a total of 16 damage"
Edited:
It seems that the good part of this card is not the "tap to deal 3 damage" but the "whenever you cast an instant or sorcery spell generate 2 energy" as 5 spells only net you 6 extra damage. I do like the interaction with harness lightning, but that may be not because Dynavolt tower is good, but because harness lightning is awesome.
Breathe out.
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Pretty novel, pretty amazing, I'm so glad they came up with energy counters and the new symbols! Magic hasn't jumped the shark and there's so much more design space to explore!!!!
.
I'm pretty sure this is sarcastic, but I can't tell. I actually do like energy, but I really dislike new symbols. Not introducing new symbols is something Magic is usually really good at, and it keeps the game accessible.
Yeah, when I think of "neo-storm", my mind goes to three of the five shrines (Shrine of Burning Rage, Shrine of Boundless Growth, and Shrine of Loyal Legions), Forgotten Ancient, Guttersnipe, Sphinx-Bone Wand, Inexorable Tide, that sort of thing. Essentially "Cast enough spells, and you win."
This one is good, but not "neo-storm" level.
On phasing:
Alternatively, he's looking for a way to fight Nicol Bolas and get out from under his thrall. Tezz is a selfish guy, after all.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
3 card combo that does... next to nothing? Scepter likes Helix, or Countersquall much better.
Ooh, you know what else goes great with Harnessed Lightning? Zada, Hedron Grinder! Now you get EEE for each creature you control!
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.