Rules question here: if a card says "when ~ enters the battlefield, [X]", does that trigger before or after that card is a permanent? I'm guessing it's after, whereas abilities that say "AS ~ enters the battlefield" occur before, but I'm not sure?
Rules question here: if a card says "when ~ enters the battlefield, [X]", does that trigger before or after that card is a permanent? I'm guessing it's after, whereas abilities that say "AS ~ enters the battlefield" occur before, but I'm not sure?
That is correct. The first one has to be on the battlefield to trigger, the other is a replacement effect that changes how the thing enters (generally)
W may only be paid with white mana. U may only be paid with blue mana. B may only be paid with black mana. R may only be paid with red mana. G may only be paid with green mana. C may only be paid with colorless mana. 1 may be paid with white, blue, black, red, green, or clolorless mana.
Love all of the "I hope this gets banned" jankposts. Outside of EDH it'll be too slow. Inside of EDH the only people who will have problems are the type of people that never play removal because they think Magic is a solitaire game and they shouldn't have to interact with the opponent's cards or respond to them.
the juicy cherry on top tho is the fact that it doesn't copy the abilities, it makes them trigger again which makes it way more explosive in synergy and combo potential.
I'm not sure whether to feel happy or upset for EDH that this card exists. Well, considering EDH is the ETB format, I'm quite confident this is going to be the card with the greatest impact on the format (The whole energy mechanic needs way more support so even if it turns out to be a viable theme/side-theme when we're done with the set/block, it's probably going to have less presence than this card anyway).
There has never been a card that needs as much of an instaban as this - my first reaction before reading this thread. I'm now going to read the thread and respond to comments.
Okay. No one, but no one talked about the cards currently in top Standard decks that are totally broken with this (other than the guy who listed all the possible cards that trigger this)
(Okay, someone did mention Thought-Knot as the 'worst they can think of'. No, no it's not. It's bad, but not the worst)
Yeah. This card is worse than CoCo because at least CoCo was mostly limited to one archetype. We're looking at a $50 rare easy. It's not even legendary, so you can have more than one out at a time. If it were legendary it would at least be limited to maybe 2 per deck - but it's a 3-of in every deck with ETB cards (which is pretty much all of the most dominant decks in the current format)
Smack this with the banhammer so hard. And literally EVERYONE should main-deck artifact hate just for this until it is banned. Not that it matters because spirits can counter that hate.
I foresee busted edh moments with this. It's one of those cards that go for about 25 or 30 cents and then just one or two years later it's suddenly 5 bucks. I'm grabbing every single one of these for cheap this time.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I foresee busted edh moments with this. It's one of those cards that go for about 25 or 30 cents and then just one or two years later it's suddenly 5 bucks. I'm grabbing every single one of these for cheap this time.
$50 card. Unless it gets banned. Every top tier Standard deck wants this. CoCo was limited to one niche archetype - this breaks pretty much every top deck.
There has never been a card that needs as much of an instaban as this - my first reaction before reading this thread. I'm now going to read the thread and respond to comments.
Okay. No one, but no one talked about the cards currently in top Standard decks that are totally broken with this (other than the guy who listed all the possible cards that trigger this)
(Okay, someone did mention Thought-Knot as the 'worst they can think of'. No, no it's not. It's bad, but not the worst)
Yeah. This card is worse than CoCo because at least CoCo was mostly limited to one archetype. We're looking at a $50 rare easy. It's not even legendary, so you can have more than one out at a time. If it were legendary it would at least be limited to maybe 2 per deck - but it's a 3-of in every deck with ETB cards (which is pretty much all of the most dominant decks in the current format)
Smack this with the banhammer so hard. And literally EVERYONE should main-deck artifact hate just for this until it is banned. Not that it matters because spirits can counter that hate.
You know, you're going to look pretty stupid if this card turns out to be rubbish. You could, you know, actually play the card or at least see the rest of the set before calling for bans. If only it were so easy to evaluate cards as so many people here seem to think it is.
There has never been a card that needs as much of an instaban as this - my first reaction before reading this thread. I'm now going to read the thread and respond to comments.
Okay. No one, but no one talked about the cards currently in top Standard decks that are totally broken with this (other than the guy who listed all the possible cards that trigger this)
(Okay, someone did mention Thought-Knot as the 'worst they can think of'. No, no it's not. It's bad, but not the worst)
Yeah. This card is worse than CoCo because at least CoCo was mostly limited to one archetype. We're looking at a $50 rare easy. It's not even legendary, so you can have more than one out at a time. If it were legendary it would at least be limited to maybe 2 per deck - but it's a 3-of in every deck with ETB cards (which is pretty much all of the most dominant decks in the current format)
Smack this with the banhammer so hard. And literally EVERYONE should main-deck artifact hate just for this until it is banned. Not that it matters because spirits can counter that hate.
You know, you're going to look pretty stupid if this card turns out to be rubbish. You could, you know, actually play the card or at least see the rest of the set before calling for bans. If only it were so easy to evaluate cards as so many people here seem to think it is.
no one is talking about a ban on standard, where seeing the rest of the set is relevant. Commander is where it should be instabanned. People already do enough broken things without this card. Do you really want people drawing four with Mulldrifter, or destroying two creatures with shriekmaw, or drawing their deck with prime speaker zeganna? And those are the most tame examples I can think of
There has never been a card that needs as much of an instaban as this - my first reaction before reading this thread. I'm now going to read the thread and respond to comments.
Okay. No one, but no one talked about the cards currently in top Standard decks that are totally broken with this (other than the guy who listed all the possible cards that trigger this)
(Okay, someone did mention Thought-Knot as the 'worst they can think of'. No, no it's not. It's bad, but not the worst)
Yeah. This card is worse than CoCo because at least CoCo was mostly limited to one archetype. We're looking at a $50 rare easy. It's not even legendary, so you can have more than one out at a time. If it were legendary it would at least be limited to maybe 2 per deck - but it's a 3-of in every deck with ETB cards (which is pretty much all of the most dominant decks in the current format)
Smack this with the banhammer so hard. And literally EVERYONE should main-deck artifact hate just for this until it is banned. Not that it matters because spirits can counter that hate.
You know, you're going to look pretty stupid if this card turns out to be rubbish. You could, you know, actually play the card or at least see the rest of the set before calling for bans. If only it were so easy to evaluate cards as so many people here seem to think it is.
no one is talking about a ban on standard, where seeing the rest of the set is relevant. Commander is where it should be instabanned. People already do enough broken things without this card. Do you really want people drawing four with Mulldrifter, or destroying two creatures with shriekmaw, or drawing their deck with prime speaker zeganna? And those are the most tame examples I can think of
Given that GW2GuruUser7586 was talking specifically about Standard decks and Archetypes, I feel like it's safe to say they were talking about a ban in Standard.
Love all of the "I hope this gets banned" jankposts. Outside of EDH it'll be too slow. Inside of EDH the only people who will have problems are the type of people that never play removal because they think Magic is a solitaire game and they shouldn't have to interact with the opponent's cards or respond to them.
This does interact with opponents. Reflector Mage is one of the best tempo cards on it's own and this doubles it's power. Spirits can easily counter any artifact hate targeting this.
Mark my words - all the top decks will be playing this even if the decks themselves differ. CoCo at least was limited to one archetype.
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You know, you're going to look pretty stupid if this card turns out to be rubbish. You could, you know, actually play the card or at least see the rest of the set before calling for bans. If only it were so easy to evaluate cards as so many people here seem to think it is.
The only way this becomes rubbish is if there is a massive amount of efficient artifact hate. Like a 3-drop 2/3 that destroys target artifact etb. And even then I'm not sure because Spell Queller hits that. Given that they usually don't kill the main mechanic in the same block they introduce it (which is why there is no graveyard removal I can think of in SOI) I doubt that's likely.
Even if it appears in no other decks except Spirits - it will be used in spirits because it literally works with every card they have, and spirits will be the only viable deck in Standard (it's already pretty tough to beat).
But some say it's 'too slow'. It's not to slow for black-based or colourless-based control. You know, the kind that runs Thought-Knot Seer (and may even add Gonti, Lord of Luxury for added value). Getting two thought-knots back to back usually means game over. Now they just need one.
Angelic Purge
Gone Missing
Ironwright's Cleansing
Mockery of Nature
Reclaiming Vines
Root Out
Springsage Ritual
Structural Distortion
and World Breaker
The only one of those that is viable is World Breaker (and only marginally). This argument is like saying that CoCo isn't broken because of Hallowed Moonlight (which never saw play).
The top only decks running significant counterspells right now is Spirits - which is the main deck that will be using this card - and they will be using their counterspells to protect it.
EDIT: Actually I can see Emerge main decking Mockery of Nature to hate against this.
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That is correct. The first one has to be on the battlefield to trigger, the other is a replacement effect that changes how the thing enters (generally)
I haven't played Magic for years now, but Kaladesh has the Johnny in me *super excited*.
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Hehehe... Dunno what I'd replace in mine though.
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Okay. No one, but no one talked about the cards currently in top Standard decks that are totally broken with this (other than the guy who listed all the possible cards that trigger this)
(Okay, someone did mention Thought-Knot as the 'worst they can think of'. No, no it's not. It's bad, but not the worst)
Here's just off the top of my head.
Reflector Mage
Thought-Knot Seer (They exile TWO cards but still only draw one)
Nibble Geist (Not to mention Rattlechains and Mausoleum Wanderer in the same deck)
Brood Monitor (You thought Brood Monitor/Eldrazi Displacer combo was bad before?)
Honourable Mentions:
Kalastria Healer
Woodweaver's Puzzleknot If this card sees play at all, this + Panharmonicon gives you enough E to activate Aetherworks Marvel all on it's own for 2 mana.
Spell Queller While there are usually not 2 spells on the stack, if you have a Spell Queller in and blink it with Essence Flux or Eldrazi Displacer you get to re-snag the original spell plus the new spell they are trying to cast.
Yeah. This card is worse than CoCo because at least CoCo was mostly limited to one archetype. We're looking at a $50 rare easy. It's not even legendary, so you can have more than one out at a time. If it were legendary it would at least be limited to maybe 2 per deck - but it's a 3-of in every deck with ETB cards (which is pretty much all of the most dominant decks in the current format)
Smack this with the banhammer so hard. And literally EVERYONE should main-deck artifact hate just for this until it is banned. Not that it matters because spirits can counter that hate.
$50 card. Unless it gets banned. Every top tier Standard deck wants this. CoCo was limited to one niche archetype - this breaks pretty much every top deck.
Spirits - Reflector Mage, Nebelghast Herald, Spell Queller (with blink), Rattlechains, Mausoleum Wanderer
Aristocrats - Brood Monitor or anything else that enters with tokens.
Humans - Thalia's Lieutenant, Thraben Inspector
Bant - mostly Reflector Mage and Spell Queller (although it doesn't usually blink their quellers) I think Spirits will replace Bant.
Tokens - Aetherstorm Roc comes to mind first off, if they want any of the other energy cards. Less desired here.
And that's just the currently known decks - not including new archetypes. Woodweaver's Puzzleknot + Aetherworks Marvel + Verdurous Gearhulk might become a thing.
I suspect all the top decks will be running it until it is banned.
You know, you're going to look pretty stupid if this card turns out to be rubbish. You could, you know, actually play the card or at least see the rest of the set before calling for bans. If only it were so easy to evaluate cards as so many people here seem to think it is.
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Given that GW2GuruUser7586 was talking specifically about Standard decks and Archetypes, I feel like it's safe to say they were talking about a ban in Standard.
This does interact with opponents. Reflector Mage is one of the best tempo cards on it's own and this doubles it's power. Spirits can easily counter any artifact hate targeting this.
Mark my words - all the top decks will be playing this even if the decks themselves differ. CoCo at least was limited to one archetype.
Angelic Purge
Gone Missing
Ironwright's Cleansing
Mockery of Nature
Reclaiming Vines
Root Out
Springsage Ritual
Structural Distortion
and World Breaker
Plus your standard bevy of counterspells to stop them from happening in the first place.
The only way this becomes rubbish is if there is a massive amount of efficient artifact hate. Like a 3-drop 2/3 that destroys target artifact etb. And even then I'm not sure because Spell Queller hits that. Given that they usually don't kill the main mechanic in the same block they introduce it (which is why there is no graveyard removal I can think of in SOI) I doubt that's likely.
Even if it appears in no other decks except Spirits - it will be used in spirits because it literally works with every card they have, and spirits will be the only viable deck in Standard (it's already pretty tough to beat).
But some say it's 'too slow'. It's not to slow for black-based or colourless-based control. You know, the kind that runs Thought-Knot Seer (and may even add Gonti, Lord of Luxury for added value). Getting two thought-knots back to back usually means game over. Now they just need one.
The only one of those that is viable is World Breaker (and only marginally). This argument is like saying that CoCo isn't broken because of Hallowed Moonlight (which never saw play).
The top only decks running significant counterspells right now is Spirits - which is the main deck that will be using this card - and they will be using their counterspells to protect it.
EDIT: Actually I can see Emerge main decking Mockery of Nature to hate against this.