That wording would imply that they've reissued errata on Lovisa Coldeyesagain. I've lost track of whether she gives herself her own bonus by now (she did, then she didn't, then she did, then she didn't... now she does again?).
There is a severe flavor fail on Lovisa in that she is not a Berseker, Warrior, or Barbarian herself.
The current wording on Gatherer means that she does not get the bonuses.
@TheMarc: She actually was a Barbarian at one point back in like 2012. However they also errata'd the wording of her static ability so she granted +2/+2 to others.
Where as I can take 4/9 as "half", I would like to point out to you that these were the FIRST four, before they even adopted the DD as means of preview (okay, first one used for previews was Elspeth vs. Tezzeret (just one card apiece and not the foil, and Knights vs Dragons was after that). The remaining FIVE (IvG, HvM, SvC, ZvE and BvC all have a preview face-card - Jarad, Polukranos, Zurgo, Sower and Mindwrack Demon).
Which is why I provide further information as to why the practice might revert to its former state.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
@TheMarc: She actually was a Barbarian at one point back in like 2012. However they also errata'd the wording of her static ability so she granted +2/+2 to others.
Fair enough. Point is, though, she never buffed herself. Whenever her typeline zigged, her ability zagged, specifically to avoid that.
unplayable disjointed mess vs. sometimes coherent oops
these decks have been a mess for years. barely playable piles that just aren't fun. low value reprints are now the norm as well. throw in that this particular one seeks to create a deck around the mind and given the history, its just going to be a pile of 1 ofs with quirky effects that never get there, while the other deck is chock full of things that out pace it
I hope we see Greater Gargadon again and not Deep-Sea Kraken, but I'd be surprised if we don't see one of them.
And I'm still flabbergasted by the hate for Jhoiras old art, it's one of my favorites...
Well, Jhoira, in the story, is a woman who was physically about forty when her aging slowed almost to zero thanks to Tolarian water, hardened and slightly "wizened" from the hardships of living on post-time machine-explosion Tolaria. And when you look at original Tinker, Mike Raabe nailed it. Her face looks older and she has even graying hair.
What we got in FS is a manga-like art of woman looking about eighteen at best. Not the master artificer, captain of Weatherlight, veteran of Time Spiral crisis.
If you do not know this background, I can see why you like the fanservice-y art from FS.
This art is slightly better, but she still looks younger than what she should be, and frankly a little bit weird in her facial expresion and pose.
Frankly, if they used Aleksi's cover from Future Sight novel, I would be happier.
unplayable disjointed mess vs. sometimes coherent oops
these decks have been a mess for years. barely playable piles that just aren't fun. low value reprints are now the norm as well. throw in that this particular one seeks to create a deck around the mind and given the history, its just going to be a pile of 1 ofs with quirky effects that never get there, while the other deck is chock full of things that out pace it
Thank you for your usual positive attitude and your kind and valuable insight. Here is a cookie and now go play somewhere else. Thanks.
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
With those as the face cards and the extra pricing looks like this might be a hard pass. They'd need to do something like have ancestral vision to go along with the suspend.
Given what the intended audience and purpose of the duel decks tend to be (more of a product for casual players and to be played rather than busted apart for singles as far as that goes...) I find it highly unlikely with the typical lower price point of the duel decks that they would put such a currently valuable card in there, which would all but guarantee that the decks would be bought up to be opened for singles sales much more than they would be used to be played as the decks. I would be curious though if anyone can recall a time, at the time the decks were released that there was a single card worth $40, $30, or even $20 in one of these decks (keeping in mind that duel deck foils tend to go for only about as much as their non-foil counterparts) the exception to that being planeswalkers that were on their way out and soon rotating from standard anyway that prior may have been going for more). That's not to say we wont see some decent cards in the decks (hopefully we will) but I wouldn't put my hopes up on Ancestral Vision. Now Mishra's bauble as a 1 of, I could certainly see (being an uncommon and only more recently spiking as much as it has), but even that I wouldn't specifically anticipate. Still, will be interesting to see when the decklists are released, and if this could harken to a return to dominaria sometime soon (which I would personally be 100% for)
Ancestral Vision was already in a Duel Deck, and when this product was likely being planned the card was worth less than $10. I doubt they would change course and take the card out because the price spiked *if* (and I do mean if, I'm not saying it's in this) they were planning to include it.
I'm very disappointed they didn't take the opportunity to errata her to give her a class of either Warrior, Barbarian, or Berserker. Sometimes functional errata is a good thing.
I still think that people give suspend a worse rap than it deserves. Suspend is probably the most "wizardly" mechanic in the game outside of something like Kaho, Minamo Historian.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
With those as the face cards and the extra pricing looks like this might be a hard pass. They'd need to do something like have ancestral vision to go along with the suspend.
Given what the intended audience and purpose of the duel decks tend to be (more of a product for casual players and to be played rather than busted apart for singles as far as that goes...) I find it highly unlikely with the typical lower price point of the duel decks that they would put such a currently valuable card in there, which would all but guarantee that the decks would be bought up to be opened for singles sales much more than they would be used to be played as the decks. I would be curious though if anyone can recall a time, at the time the decks were released that there was a single card worth $40, $30, or even $20 in one of these decks (keeping in mind that duel deck foils tend to go for only about as much as their non-foil counterparts) the exception to that being planeswalkers that were on their way out and soon rotating from standard anyway that prior may have been going for more). That's not to say we wont see some decent cards in the decks (hopefully we will) but I wouldn't put my hopes up on Ancestral Vision. Now Mishra's bauble as a 1 of, I could certainly see (being an uncommon and only more recently spiking as much as it has), but even that I wouldn't specifically anticipate. Still, will be interesting to see when the decklists are released, and if this could harken to a return to dominaria sometime soon (which I would personally be 100% for)
Ancestral Vision was already in a Duel Deck, and when this product was likely being planned the card was worth less than $10. I doubt they would change course and take the card out because the price spiked *if* (and I do mean if, I'm not saying it's in this) they were planning to include it.
The card having been in a previous duel deck from 2008 (and then in the Japanese version a few years later, and then in the anthologies box set which had all of them in it regardless at the time) in this case, and in my opinion, doesn't really have a ton of bearing on its potential inclusion now. Its not that wizards is against putting quality cards into these decks, its more than they tend to shy away from putting too much value in individual cards into the decks to take away from the intended audience and purpose of the decks. That's not to say its impossible that they could put such a card in there. I did some checking and you are correct, it was a $10 card until right around February 1st of last year. At which point it began to rise, settling at around $18 for a couple of months until it inevitably spiked to $40 upon its unbanning right around the first of april of last year (more or less a year to the day of when this new duel deck will be released.) Now if they were looking at the cards for the deck, and this was put together, finalized and sent off to be printed before they unbanned the card, then sure, that certainly increases the likelihood that it could be in there. But at the same time, I don't think they finalize and send off for printing, products like this more than a year in advance, at which point they would have known about it being unbanned and have seen its spike to $40+ which could certainly have caused them to change their minds about including the card IF (emphasis on if) they originally intended to put the card in the deck in the first place. Personally I perceive that there is about a 5% chance of the card being in there. Small, but still possible. And hey, if the card is in there, then that will certainly make it a whole heck of a lot easier to get ahold of. However its also likely to make it a heck of a lot harder for the intended audience to be able to purchase the decks at the normal MSRP if it is included as people are going to be guaranteed to go around picking up the decks for MSRP from wherever they can in order to open them to sell the singles out of them, or to re-sell online or otherwise for higher than MSRP due to the contents. I imagine we will find out one way or another in about a week or so when the contents are presumably released. In the meantime, we will just have to patiently wait and see what they give us in the decks.
The card having been in a previous duel deck from 2008 (and then in the Japanese version a few years later, and then in the anthologies box set which had all of them in it regardless at the time) in this case, and in my opinion, doesn't really have a ton of bearing on its potential inclusion now. Its not that wizards is against putting quality cards into these decks, its more than they tend to shy away from putting too much value in individual cards into the decks to take away from the intended audience and purpose of the decks. That's not to say its impossible that they could put such a card in there. I did some checking and you are correct, it was a $10 card until right around February 1st of last year. At which point it began to rise, settling at around $18 for a couple of months until it inevitably spiked to $40 upon its unbanning right around the first of april of last year (more or less a year to the day of when this new duel deck will be released.) Now if they were looking at the cards for the deck, and this was put together, finalized and sent off to be printed before they unbanned the card, then sure, that certainly increases the likelihood that it could be in there. But at the same time, I don't think they finalize and send off for printing, products like this more than a year in advance, at which point they would have known about it being unbanned and have seen its spike to $40+ which could certainly have caused them to change their minds about including the card IF (emphasis on if) they originally intended to put the card in the deck in the first place. Personally I perceive that there is about a 5% chance of the card being in there. Small, but still possible. And hey, if the card is in there, then that will certainly make it a whole heck of a lot easier to get ahold of. However its also likely to make it a heck of a lot harder for the intended audience to be able to purchase the decks at the normal MSRP if it is included as people are going to be guaranteed to go around picking up the decks for MSRP from wherever they can in order to open them to sell the singles out of them, or to re-sell online or otherwise for higher than MSRP due to the contents. I imagine we will find out one way or another in about a week or so when the contents are presumably released. In the meantime, we will just have to patiently wait and see what they give us in the decks.
This idea that nothing remotely valuable can ever be reprinted outside of premium products and $10 MSRP reprint sets, however valid it is from Wizards' perspective (and I don't think it entirely is), needs to die. The Magic Market is a ridiculous bubble economy overinflated by mass speculation and it is hurting the game. Cards spike up and down in value all the time and if Wizards decides they will never reprint anything beyond an arbitrary secondary market price limit they'll be walking on eggshells every time they create a product like this. Yes, we all read Saffron Olive's article about "reprint equity" and that certainly has a lot of validity but they are sitting on TONS of that ***** now and it's time to start using it because Modern affordability is a huge problem.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
The card having been in a previous duel deck from 2008 (and then in the Japanese version a few years later, and then in the anthologies box set which had all of them in it regardless at the time) in this case, and in my opinion, doesn't really have a ton of bearing on its potential inclusion now. Its not that wizards is against putting quality cards into these decks, its more than they tend to shy away from putting too much value in individual cards into the decks to take away from the intended audience and purpose of the decks. That's not to say its impossible that they could put such a card in there. I did some checking and you are correct, it was a $10 card until right around February 1st of last year. At which point it began to rise, settling at around $18 for a couple of months until it inevitably spiked to $40 upon its unbanning right around the first of april of last year (more or less a year to the day of when this new duel deck will be released.) Now if they were looking at the cards for the deck, and this was put together, finalized and sent off to be printed before they unbanned the card, then sure, that certainly increases the likelihood that it could be in there. But at the same time, I don't think they finalize and send off for printing, products like this more than a year in advance, at which point they would have known about it being unbanned and have seen its spike to $40+ which could certainly have caused them to change their minds about including the card IF (emphasis on if) they originally intended to put the card in the deck in the first place. Personally I perceive that there is about a 5% chance of the card being in there. Small, but still possible. And hey, if the card is in there, then that will certainly make it a whole heck of a lot easier to get ahold of. However its also likely to make it a heck of a lot harder for the intended audience to be able to purchase the decks at the normal MSRP if it is included as people are going to be guaranteed to go around picking up the decks for MSRP from wherever they can in order to open them to sell the singles out of them, or to re-sell online or otherwise for higher than MSRP due to the contents. I imagine we will find out one way or another in about a week or so when the contents are presumably released. In the meantime, we will just have to patiently wait and see what they give us in the decks.
This idea that nothing remotely valuable can ever be reprinted outside of premium products and $10 MSRP reprint sets, however valid it is from Wizards' perspective (and I don't think it entirely is), needs to die. The Magic Market is a ridiculous bubble economy overinflated by mass speculation and it is hurting the game. Cards spike up and down in value all the time and if Wizards decides they will never reprint anything beyond an arbitrary secondary market price limit they'll be walking on eggshells every time they create a product like this. Yes, we all read Saffron Olive's article about "reprint equity" and that certainly has a lot of validity but they are sitting on TONS of that ***** now and it's time to start using it because Modern affordability is a huge problem.
While I can certainly understand the frustration of many about such things, I would like to point out that I never even remotely suggested anything you just said while quoting my post. I was only referring specifically to duel decks and their very logical reasoning for not putting high value cards into the decks ($10 cards can and do happen plenty often, and popular standard cards on their way out of the format also do happen from time to time). Often things like duel decks can have more value to start with than their msrp, which is certainly fine, it just tends to be spread out a bit more among several decent but not msrp+ valued cards individually. As stated previously, wizards cares not only about simply being able to sell their products, and that they sell well, but also that the intended audience has a decent chance at being able to pick up the products at the intended msrp price for normal mass-print products like duel decks, or commander decks, etc. Heck, just for more recent examples, one can look towards recent popular commander decks to what can happen to the market when individual there is too much value or too much popularity in one of the decks. Those decks get bought up, torn apart for singles sales, or re-sold for greater than msrp online or otherwise (see: jeleva commander 2013 deck as a prime example of what can happen when too much value plus good new cards with value are included in one box set, wizards had to admit they screwed up and actually did an unprecedented (at that time) thing of having special box sets printed that included 2 of that deck and 1 less of one of the others in order to balance things out.) Things like that only continue to make wizards more careful when it comes to products like these to not have high value cards distract from the primary purpose of the decks themselves.
And wizards can and does reprint valuable cards into standard sets, sure it can be hit and miss, but they reprinted the shocklands in RTR block, which were certainly getting up there at the time, they reprinted the onslaught fetches in Khans which were way up there, they reprinted Thoughtseize which was a $60+ card before the reprinting in Theros, They reprinted a decent amount of quality stuff in the newest Conspiracy set (also a standard MSRP and not exactly particularly limited set). Things like duel decks and commander decks tend to get the more $10 and under sort of stuff when it comes to the reprints, and really I don't see a problem with that so long as the decks themselves are well built, fun to play, and reasonably available at a reasonable price for the intended audience of such products. At the end of the day I would rather see decent lower end reprints of cards in such decks that increase the supply to the market of such cards and help bring their prices down in the long run while still keeping such deck products in the hands of those that they are intended for (in this case the casual players for things like duel decks, or the casual/Commander crowd for things like the commander decks).
Now as before I'm not saying wizards wont print something like Ancestral Visions in a product like this, especially, as previously mentioned, if the timeline for creation and final setup of the set was from before Visions was unbanned at which point the $10 and under bit that they often tend to follow for such products would fall right in line with what could be put in a product like this and surprise a bunch of people with its inclusion. I still figure the odds are rather low all in all, but you never know, we will just have to wait and see. I'm hopeful either way that wizards does a good job in putting the decks together, regardless of the value of the cards in them (while hopefully still decent), so that they turn out to be fun and balanced decks to be able to play with and play against each other as intended.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
We're probably going to see all three along with Epochrasite and possibly Delay. We also shouldn't forget about Jhoira's Toolbox being potentially in there as a nod to the namesake mage starring at the top of the deck. I'm still surprised they are using suspend, though.
The big mistake of suspend was that they made it so that you are spending mana to "not cast" a spell. If the rulings were different and suspend worked such that you cast the spell, then there is a wait until it resolves, that would have been fine. Delay is the best example of confusing design because basically you counter the spell an opponent casts, but then the card gains suspend 3. According to how suspend is worded, once all the time counters are gone they then cast the spell for free. What this means is that they effectively cast the spell twice: The first time they cast it was back when it got countered, and the second time happens once the time counters are gone. It does play hilariously with Spell Queller though. It makes you feel like your putting a golf ball into a hole behind a windmill.
I mean, this all makes sense to me, but I've been playing the game since 1997 so I've been through some really weird stuff like the original morph mechanic and people playing the extremely verbose cards from The Dark and Legends.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I absolutely love the Jhoira art. I can only imagine how gorgeous it would look foil. It calls to mind Jhoira working on Urza's time machine in the Urza's Legacy days.
The Lovisa art... not so much. I adored the Ice Age novels (Gathering Dark, Eternal Ice, Shattered Alliance) and both versions of Lovisa in the latter two. Especially Shattered Alliance, where she's an older woman, in her forties, navigating her people through the complex reality of going from living as nomadic raiders to merchants living in more permanent settlements, with more complex economical and diplomatic ties to the 'civilized' world (Kjeldor), eventually leading to the founding of New Argive. The original art nicely juxtaposed these two sides, she was clearly still a barbarian (flavor wise, obviously), but also a leader that was capable of seeing beyond the traditional violent inclinations of her people, surrounded by more wealth and status symbols than she would have been during her early days as chieftain. The new art, and especially the flavor text, is much more generic raaargh barbarian smash. Or I may just be reading into it way too much.
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I absolutely love the Jhoira art. I can only imagine how gorgeous it would look foil. It calls to mind Jhoira working on Urza's time machine in the Urza's Legacy days.
The Lovisa art... not so much. I adored the Ice Age novels (Gathering Dark, Eternal Ice, Shattered Alliance) and both versions of Lovisa in the latter two. Especially Shattered Alliance, where she's an older woman, in her forties, navigating her people through the complex reality of going from living as nomadic raiders to merchants living in more permanent settlements, with more complex economical and diplomatic ties to the 'civilized' world (Kjeldor), eventually leading to the founding of New Argive. The original art nicely juxtaposed these two sides, she was clearly still a barbarian (flavor wise, obviously), but also a leader that was capable of seeing beyond the traditional violent inclinations of her people, surrounded by more wealth and status symbols than she would have been during her early days as chieftain. The new art, and especially the flavor text, is much more generic raaargh barbarian smash. Or I may just be reading into it way too much.
It could be art of Lovisa before all that.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
sometimes a circular thing that looks like horns is just a circular thing that looks like horns, that said the art is pretty terrible and they made an artificer into a card that has nothing to do with artifice sooooooooo... i guess its possible.
Strongest argument for Ancestral Vision is that WotC works quite far in advance, even on supplemental non-randomized products like duel decks. That said, I don't think they work NEARLY as far ahead as standard legals sets. I think the product is finalized closer to 6 months in advance of release. Don't quote me on that, and if anyone can find a wizards or blogatog quote that states this for sure can feel free to correct me.
With regards to Vision, it spiked from $8 to $18 in jan/feb 2016. It spiked from $20 to >$40 in mar/apr 2016. This is well before this type of product would be finalized. As such, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The last thing they want is stores cracking these for singles. That just leads to everyone *****ing and unhappy... except the stores I guess.
While that would be a cool flavor tie-in, this isn't Suspend vs. Snow.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
There is a severe flavor fail on Lovisa in that she is not a Berseker, Warrior, or Barbarian herself.
The current wording on Gatherer means that she does not get the bonuses.
Which is why I provide further information as to why the practice might revert to its former state.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
unplayable disjointed mess vs. sometimes coherent oops
these decks have been a mess for years. barely playable piles that just aren't fun. low value reprints are now the norm as well. throw in that this particular one seeks to create a deck around the mind and given the history, its just going to be a pile of 1 ofs with quirky effects that never get there, while the other deck is chock full of things that out pace it
Well, Jhoira, in the story, is a woman who was physically about forty when her aging slowed almost to zero thanks to Tolarian water, hardened and slightly "wizened" from the hardships of living on post-time machine-explosion Tolaria. And when you look at original Tinker, Mike Raabe nailed it. Her face looks older and she has even graying hair.
What we got in FS is a manga-like art of woman looking about eighteen at best. Not the master artificer, captain of Weatherlight, veteran of Time Spiral crisis.
If you do not know this background, I can see why you like the fanservice-y art from FS.
This art is slightly better, but she still looks younger than what she should be, and frankly a little bit weird in her facial expresion and pose.
Frankly, if they used Aleksi's cover from Future Sight novel, I would be happier.
Thank you for your usual positive attitude and your kind and valuable insight. Here is a cookie and now go play somewhere else. Thanks.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Ancestral Vision was already in a Duel Deck, and when this product was likely being planned the card was worth less than $10. I doubt they would change course and take the card out because the price spiked *if* (and I do mean if, I'm not saying it's in this) they were planning to include it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The card having been in a previous duel deck from 2008 (and then in the Japanese version a few years later, and then in the anthologies box set which had all of them in it regardless at the time) in this case, and in my opinion, doesn't really have a ton of bearing on its potential inclusion now. Its not that wizards is against putting quality cards into these decks, its more than they tend to shy away from putting too much value in individual cards into the decks to take away from the intended audience and purpose of the decks. That's not to say its impossible that they could put such a card in there. I did some checking and you are correct, it was a $10 card until right around February 1st of last year. At which point it began to rise, settling at around $18 for a couple of months until it inevitably spiked to $40 upon its unbanning right around the first of april of last year (more or less a year to the day of when this new duel deck will be released.) Now if they were looking at the cards for the deck, and this was put together, finalized and sent off to be printed before they unbanned the card, then sure, that certainly increases the likelihood that it could be in there. But at the same time, I don't think they finalize and send off for printing, products like this more than a year in advance, at which point they would have known about it being unbanned and have seen its spike to $40+ which could certainly have caused them to change their minds about including the card IF (emphasis on if) they originally intended to put the card in the deck in the first place. Personally I perceive that there is about a 5% chance of the card being in there. Small, but still possible. And hey, if the card is in there, then that will certainly make it a whole heck of a lot easier to get ahold of. However its also likely to make it a heck of a lot harder for the intended audience to be able to purchase the decks at the normal MSRP if it is included as people are going to be guaranteed to go around picking up the decks for MSRP from wherever they can in order to open them to sell the singles out of them, or to re-sell online or otherwise for higher than MSRP due to the contents. I imagine we will find out one way or another in about a week or so when the contents are presumably released. In the meantime, we will just have to patiently wait and see what they give us in the decks.
This idea that nothing remotely valuable can ever be reprinted outside of premium products and $10 MSRP reprint sets, however valid it is from Wizards' perspective (and I don't think it entirely is), needs to die. The Magic Market is a ridiculous bubble economy overinflated by mass speculation and it is hurting the game. Cards spike up and down in value all the time and if Wizards decides they will never reprint anything beyond an arbitrary secondary market price limit they'll be walking on eggshells every time they create a product like this. Yes, we all read Saffron Olive's article about "reprint equity" and that certainly has a lot of validity but they are sitting on TONS of that ***** now and it's time to start using it because Modern affordability is a huge problem.
Red probably wasn't the second color most of us would have chosen for Mind, but let's not forget that it has cards like Mindmoil.
What's the likelihood we see Clockspinning and Jhoira's Timebug in the Mind deck? Maybe Rift Elemental as well?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
While I can certainly understand the frustration of many about such things, I would like to point out that I never even remotely suggested anything you just said while quoting my post. I was only referring specifically to duel decks and their very logical reasoning for not putting high value cards into the decks ($10 cards can and do happen plenty often, and popular standard cards on their way out of the format also do happen from time to time). Often things like duel decks can have more value to start with than their msrp, which is certainly fine, it just tends to be spread out a bit more among several decent but not msrp+ valued cards individually. As stated previously, wizards cares not only about simply being able to sell their products, and that they sell well, but also that the intended audience has a decent chance at being able to pick up the products at the intended msrp price for normal mass-print products like duel decks, or commander decks, etc. Heck, just for more recent examples, one can look towards recent popular commander decks to what can happen to the market when individual there is too much value or too much popularity in one of the decks. Those decks get bought up, torn apart for singles sales, or re-sold for greater than msrp online or otherwise (see: jeleva commander 2013 deck as a prime example of what can happen when too much value plus good new cards with value are included in one box set, wizards had to admit they screwed up and actually did an unprecedented (at that time) thing of having special box sets printed that included 2 of that deck and 1 less of one of the others in order to balance things out.) Things like that only continue to make wizards more careful when it comes to products like these to not have high value cards distract from the primary purpose of the decks themselves.
And wizards can and does reprint valuable cards into standard sets, sure it can be hit and miss, but they reprinted the shocklands in RTR block, which were certainly getting up there at the time, they reprinted the onslaught fetches in Khans which were way up there, they reprinted Thoughtseize which was a $60+ card before the reprinting in Theros, They reprinted a decent amount of quality stuff in the newest Conspiracy set (also a standard MSRP and not exactly particularly limited set). Things like duel decks and commander decks tend to get the more $10 and under sort of stuff when it comes to the reprints, and really I don't see a problem with that so long as the decks themselves are well built, fun to play, and reasonably available at a reasonable price for the intended audience of such products. At the end of the day I would rather see decent lower end reprints of cards in such decks that increase the supply to the market of such cards and help bring their prices down in the long run while still keeping such deck products in the hands of those that they are intended for (in this case the casual players for things like duel decks, or the casual/Commander crowd for things like the commander decks).
Now as before I'm not saying wizards wont print something like Ancestral Visions in a product like this, especially, as previously mentioned, if the timeline for creation and final setup of the set was from before Visions was unbanned at which point the $10 and under bit that they often tend to follow for such products would fall right in line with what could be put in a product like this and surprise a bunch of people with its inclusion. I still figure the odds are rather low all in all, but you never know, we will just have to wait and see. I'm hopeful either way that wizards does a good job in putting the decks together, regardless of the value of the cards in them (while hopefully still decent), so that they turn out to be fun and balanced decks to be able to play with and play against each other as intended.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
We're probably going to see all three along with Epochrasite and possibly Delay. We also shouldn't forget about Jhoira's Toolbox being potentially in there as a nod to the namesake mage starring at the top of the deck. I'm still surprised they are using suspend, though.
The big mistake of suspend was that they made it so that you are spending mana to "not cast" a spell. If the rulings were different and suspend worked such that you cast the spell, then there is a wait until it resolves, that would have been fine. Delay is the best example of confusing design because basically you counter the spell an opponent casts, but then the card gains suspend 3. According to how suspend is worded, once all the time counters are gone they then cast the spell for free. What this means is that they effectively cast the spell twice: The first time they cast it was back when it got countered, and the second time happens once the time counters are gone. It does play hilariously with Spell Queller though. It makes you feel like your putting a golf ball into a hole behind a windmill.
I mean, this all makes sense to me, but I've been playing the game since 1997 so I've been through some really weird stuff like the original morph mechanic and people playing the extremely verbose cards from The Dark and Legends.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The Lovisa art... not so much. I adored the Ice Age novels (Gathering Dark, Eternal Ice, Shattered Alliance) and both versions of Lovisa in the latter two. Especially Shattered Alliance, where she's an older woman, in her forties, navigating her people through the complex reality of going from living as nomadic raiders to merchants living in more permanent settlements, with more complex economical and diplomatic ties to the 'civilized' world (Kjeldor), eventually leading to the founding of New Argive. The original art nicely juxtaposed these two sides, she was clearly still a barbarian (flavor wise, obviously), but also a leader that was capable of seeing beyond the traditional violent inclinations of her people, surrounded by more wealth and status symbols than she would have been during her early days as chieftain. The new art, and especially the flavor text, is much more generic raaargh barbarian smash. Or I may just be reading into it way too much.
edit: Which have now disappeared.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
It could be art of Lovisa before all that.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
pretty big retcon if thats the case...
sometimes a circular thing that looks like horns is just a circular thing that looks like horns, that said the art is pretty terrible and they made an artificer into a card that has nothing to do with artifice sooooooooo... i guess its possible.
With regards to Vision, it spiked from $8 to $18 in jan/feb 2016. It spiked from $20 to >$40 in mar/apr 2016. This is well before this type of product would be finalized. As such, I wouldn't get my hopes up. The last thing they want is stores cracking these for singles. That just leads to everyone *****ing and unhappy... except the stores I guess.
http://www.mtgstocks.com/cards/3804
While that would be a cool flavor tie-in, this isn't Suspend vs. Snow.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.