I'm hoping that they pack it with high value and prints tons of them, but right now it has felt like wizards overprints low value stuff and underprints things people want.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So the deck lists are spoiled and we have a lot of new art with the most interesting card(s) being reprinted is Coat of Arms, Rift Bolt, and Snap, but for the most part these range from incredibly eyebrow raising, with The Unspeakable or Zo-Zu to unsurprising with Kamahl. I'm going to keep asking why Call of the Herd is rare in this, and MM3.
On paper these decks look fun to play and there are some good value reprints and new arts. As someone predicted, I think "Mind" probably gets run over 9/10 times due to being spread too thin; it is a Suspend + Storm + Arcane + "Instants and Sorceries" matter deck and while all those themes can play very well together, it means it simply doesn't have the sort of redundancy and consistent draws that Might will have. Mind's curve is also a disaster; you'll want to aggressively mulligan to Rift Bolt and Nivix Cyclops to protect yourself and hopefully hold your Snaps for the big combo turn. Then again, Might has very little interaction - an early Young Pyromancer that doesn't get Firebolt-ed is going to take over the game, and if Mind lives long enough to resolve Sage-eye Avengers, The Unspeakable, or Deep-sea Kraken Might just loses the game.
I wish the decks were a smidgen stronger and better balanced. I feel like if you're going to do Arcane Storm, a few Glacial Rays would have really helped Mind out, and a few Izzet Boilerworks would have helped make Snap a whole lot more lethal. Quicken is also a borderline do-nothing card here and could easily have been a second Desperate Ritual or a more relevant rare. I'm also a little salty that not one but two of Might's rare slots went to Call of the Herd.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
One can certainly be excited for some of the singles, but the product as a whole is lacking a bit. I personally like Coat of Arms and the new art for Desperate Ritual.
I guess they decided that Duel Decks are no longer the place to spoil new cards. Seems like there are a lot more rares than usual, but no money cards.
I feel like duel decks are on the way out. Who is the target audience for this? Without chase mythics like Planeswalkers and without brand new cards, I feel like most people will try to pick up a few singles and that's it.
Supplemental sets need to draw people in. They can have reprints like Liliana of the Veil. They can have new cards like Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. They can be unique draft formats, like Conspiracy.
To me, this is more like the Anthology sets. Reprints of cards we've already had access to for a long time. Other than lowering prices for a few cards and giving us new art, it seems like the same target audience as Anthology sets: People who want to keep the original preconstructed decks intact. I feel like people who like to replay preconstructed decks over and over again are a small subset of Magic players, and that WOTC is making a mistake by making products geared solely towards them.
The decks are too complex for beginners, too weak for competitive play, and do not bring enough to the table.
This one seems like a miss on every level. A couple ok reprints but noting sexy to move them.
And how many times to we need pit fighter reprinted. And also 2 rare slots for call of the herd. That is just embarrassing.
If they want to keep will low key cards fine, but at least reprints some stuff that was only in Commander or Conspiracy so we can get more copies out there.
The rift bolt reprint alone is a pretty good choice for multiple formats. The rest look good for commander play for sure.
Not a fan of them showcasing a suspend focused legendary and then half assing it with the time theme. I don't think anyone likes arcane and they should have put in delay and at least Jioras Time bug. A singleton ancestral vision would have been good as well.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
This duel deck list isn't that bad at least compared to the last couple non-PW DDs, it seems like it has a bit to satisfy many crowds. On paper, the decks themselves looks fun to play against each other with enough variety for someone new and the cards themselves aren't all chaff, there are cards that could use a reprint as well as staples like young pyromancer that is seeing continual reprints to keep prices down.
EDH players get stuff, casual and new players get stuff, pauper players get stuff, players looking for format staples get stuff, new artwork connoisseurs gets stuff, this seems like an all around win for everyone.
I'm uncertain as to what this product is doing to make it cost an extra $5. Doesn't seem like the price increase was necessary when it doesn't do better than most of the DD's we've gotten the last few years.
On paper these decks look fun to play and there are some good value reprints and new arts. As someone predicted, I think "Mind" probably gets run over 9/10 times due to being spread too thin; it is a Suspend + Storm + Arcane + "Instants and Sorceries" matter deck and while all those themes can play very well together, it means it simply doesn't have the sort of redundancy and consistent draws that Might will have. Mind's curve is also a disaster; you'll want to aggressively mulligan to Rift Bolt and Nivix Cyclops to protect yourself and hopefully hold your Snaps for the big combo turn. Then again, Might has very little interaction - an early Young Pyromancer that doesn't get Firebolt-ed is going to take over the game, and if Mind lives long enough to resolve Sage-eye Avengers, The Unspeakable, or Deep-sea Kraken Might just loses the game.
I wish the decks were a smidgen stronger and better balanced. I feel like if you're going to do Arcane Storm, a few Glacial Rays would have really helped Mind out, and a few Izzet Boilerworks would have helped make Snap a whole lot more lethal. Quicken is also a borderline do-nothing card here and could easily have been a second Desperate Ritual or a more relevant rare. I'm also a little salty that not one but two of Might's rare slots went to Call of the Herd.
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Sufferer of EDHD
Commander - Currently Playing: RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G) RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B) WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
As a commander player, I am very happy with the deck lists. Lots of legendary creatures (granted, I had like all but Jhoira and the Unspeakable already, but I am really glad I am getting them), and lots of value cards for the format for cheaper than what they would have costed me individually (including postage).
For newbie commander players, the decks are a decent jumping off point for new decks, granted you'd need to use Radha as the commander for the green/red deck, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
All in all, I rate it a solid 8/10. A good solid product with lots of fun for casual players.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
These offer nothing for me. Heck I don't even like the new artwork for jhoira, as that pose and her hand positions look awkward to me. Just a huge disappointment considering the wait. The price went up on these too didn't it? Just...a big pile of ewwww.
5/10
Jeez, even I'm disappointed by these lists, and normally I'm the most stubborn defender of Wizards' decisions on this website. I mean, how hard could Wizards vs. Warriors have been? I expected something more archetypal.
Seriously, who would have put Call of the Herd in Might, let alone two copies? Ancient Craving in Sorin's deck was a little odd, but at least it fit the life drain theme. I could understand Call of the Herd if it gave us Warrior tokens or put +1/+1 counters on your creatures, or if the deck was focused on power in general and the face card didn't call out a tribal theme, but all it does is give you random Elephants to attack with alongside your Warriors and Barbarians. Anthousa, Setessan Hero would have fit better than that.
The arbitrary inclusion of old, off-theme cards has always been one of my greatest pet peeves related to Duel Decks. Why can't you just save that stuff for Commander, or find some other product where the reprint fits better? "Hey, we need to reprint Call of the Herd." "How about we put it in this upcoming Warrior-heavy deck? We'll even put in an extra copy!" And what's up with leaving Berserkers out? Seriously, that's some of the worst "doesn't matter here" since White Knight in Knights vs. Dragons (the latter of which was a monored deck). I would have taken Stormblood Berserker over Skarrgan Pit-Skulk.
Sigh...I'm not used to being this salty. But believe it or not, I don't just blindly support every single decision the company makes. Unlike a lot of outspoken critics around here, I don't throw around the word "garbage" like it's the new trend word and I don't ask for somebody to get fired over what is probably an arbitrary nitpicking. I criticize because I know they can do better, and I want them to. I want to like this product, but these glaring issues lower my desire to buy it and raise my desire to build something better.
Personally I would have made Jori En the face card for Mind (provided I kept it UR) since she's just about the most flexible Wizard out there; she rewards casting Wizards, she rewards casting noncreature spells, she covers the whole package. All she asks is that you cast a second spell each turn, and that shouldn't be hard with a deck focused on casting spells. Jhoira's not a bad Wizard (though she should be an Artificer) but her Suspend ability draws too much attention to a time theme. Jori's all about casting spells; cast two spells in a single turn and win a prize! I would have sprung for a Flashback/Rebound package that gave us stuff like Staggershock and Think Twice; you want Storm in there too, that's fine, it all plays together well.
Lovisa I could handle as the face of Might if they properly built around the tribal theme. Where's Obsidian Battle-Axe, Mage Slayer, and some gosh dang Berserkers? Of course I prefer when a duel deck's face card matches all the colors of the deck, so I would have tried using Radha, Heir to Keld or Ruric Thar, the Unbowed as Might's face card. Even Stonebrow, Krosan Hero would work pretty well since you want to give your creatures Trample and you want to pump them up.
I think what holds these decks back the most is the underlying directive to reprint old cards simply because they're staples; they end up forcing them in a product where they only tangentally fit, and pull focus and dilute the flavor as a result. That's a problem when the product in question is supposed to be built on flavor and trope resonance. I really wish they still put up design articles explaining their choices for duel decklists. I enjoyed reading the article on Knights vs. Dragons which explained that Hunted Dragon was purposefully left out because it gave the Knights deck too much advantage. I want them to explain that stuff to us again.
Private Mod Note
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
All in all the decks really aren't that bad. Lots of quality if not particularly valuable reprints and a lot more rares than I was expecting on the overall, though with the price increase I suppose it balances out a little. I cant speak for the playability of the decks versus each other without seeing them in action, they look somewhat interesting at least. As for the cards themselves, there are certainly some decent ones: Jhoira, 2 Young Pyromancer, Talrand, Deep-Sea Kraken, Mind's Desire, 3 Rift Bolt, 2 snap, Desperate Ritual, Lovisa, Talara's Battalion, Radha, 2 Burning Tree Emissary, Harmonize, Gutteral Response, Coat of Arms, among others.
So the deck lists are spoiled and we have a lot of new art with the most interesting card(s) being reprinted is Coat of Arms, Rift Bolt, and Snap, but for the most part these range from incredibly eyebrow raising, with The Unspeakable or Zo-Zu to unsurprising with Kamahl. I'm going to keep asking why Call of the Herd is rare in this, and MM3.
This Duel Deck is quite disappointing.
In a set inteneded to be drafted the rare label is more understandable for MM3. It's still probably acceptable as an uncommon, but I can understand it.
Also the art on Desperate Ritual is great. Definitely picking it up for storm.
All in all the decks really aren't that bad. Lots of quality if not particularly valuable reprints and a lot more rares than I was expecting on the overall, though with the price increase I suppose it balances out a little. I cant speak for the playability of the decks versus each other without seeing them in action, they look somewhat interesting at least. As for the cards themselves, there are certainly some decent ones: Jhoira, 2 Young Pyromancer, Talrand, Deep-Sea Kraken, Mind's Desire, 3 Rift Bolt, 2 snap, Desperate Ritual, Lovisa, Talara's Battalion, Radha, 2 Burning Tree Emissary, Harmonize, Gutteral Response, Coat of Arms, among others.
Looking through the decklists, you're right; there are ten rares per deck. Maybe that's going to be the standard going forward? 1 Mythic, 10 Rares, and an assortment of Commons and Uncommons. That'll make it easier to pick out rares for Duel Decks.
And most of the reprints aren't all that bad. Rubblebelt Raiders definitely fits the theme. I've been looking to get a copy of Jori En, Ruin Diver. I guess I just found the aforementioned flaws to be rather glaring.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'll probably actually buy this -, sorry bandwagon crew! I don't have a Jhoira yet, so a foil will be nice. I do like the new artwork. Coat of Arms is something I've wanted for EDH but haven't bought due to the price. Lots of goodies here for various projects I don't have yet Don't care about playing them against each other so not really a consideration.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
This Duel Deck is quite disappointing.
There are no new cards in this.
Well, I am excited about the reprint of both Mind's Desire and Beacon of Tomorrows, so, that is a plus for me...
EDH DECKS
Currently under construction
MAGECRAFT STORM
-Veyran, Voice of Duality-
Protection from Degeneracy
Do not pray for an easy life. Pray for the strength to endure a difficult one.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I wish the decks were a smidgen stronger and better balanced. I feel like if you're going to do Arcane Storm, a few Glacial Rays would have really helped Mind out, and a few Izzet Boilerworks would have helped make Snap a whole lot more lethal. Quicken is also a borderline do-nothing card here and could easily have been a second Desperate Ritual or a more relevant rare. I'm also a little salty that not one but two of Might's rare slots went to Call of the Herd.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
One can certainly be excited for some of the singles, but the product as a whole is lacking a bit. I personally like Coat of Arms and the new art for Desperate Ritual.
I feel like duel decks are on the way out. Who is the target audience for this? Without chase mythics like Planeswalkers and without brand new cards, I feel like most people will try to pick up a few singles and that's it.
Supplemental sets need to draw people in. They can have reprints like Liliana of the Veil. They can have new cards like Atraxa, Praetors' Voice. They can be unique draft formats, like Conspiracy.
To me, this is more like the Anthology sets. Reprints of cards we've already had access to for a long time. Other than lowering prices for a few cards and giving us new art, it seems like the same target audience as Anthology sets: People who want to keep the original preconstructed decks intact. I feel like people who like to replay preconstructed decks over and over again are a small subset of Magic players, and that WOTC is making a mistake by making products geared solely towards them.
The decks are too complex for beginners, too weak for competitive play, and do not bring enough to the table.
8.RG Green Devotion Ramp/Combo 9.UR Draw Triggers 10.WUR Group stalling 11.WUR Voltron Spellslinger 12.WB Sacrificial Shenanigans
13.BR Creatureless Panharmonicon 14.BR Pingers and Eldrazi 15.URG Untapped Cascading
16.Reyhan, last of the Abzan's WUBG +1/+1 Counter Craziness 17.WUBRG Dragons aka Why did I make this?
Building: The Gitrog Monster lands, Glissa the Traitor stax, Muldrotha, the Gravetide Planeswalker Combo, Kydele, Chosen of Kruphix + Sidar Kondo of Jamuraa Clues, and Tribal Scarecrow Planeswalkers
And how many times to we need pit fighter reprinted. And also 2 rare slots for call of the herd. That is just embarrassing.
If they want to keep will low key cards fine, but at least reprints some stuff that was only in Commander or Conspiracy so we can get more copies out there.
Not a fan of them showcasing a suspend focused legendary and then half assing it with the time theme. I don't think anyone likes arcane and they should have put in delay and at least Jioras Time bug. A singleton ancestral vision would have been good as well.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
EDH players get stuff, casual and new players get stuff, pauper players get stuff, players looking for format staples get stuff, new artwork connoisseurs gets stuff, this seems like an all around win for everyone.
I wish the decks were a smidgen stronger and better balanced. I feel like if you're going to do Arcane Storm, a few Glacial Rays would have really helped Mind out, and a few Izzet Boilerworks would have helped make Snap a whole lot more lethal. Quicken is also a borderline do-nothing card here and could easily have been a second Desperate Ritual or a more relevant rare. I'm also a little salty that not one but two of Might's rare slots went to Call of the Herd.
RCRDaretti: Superfriends Forever RCR
WGBDoran: Ent-mootWBG
GGGMultani: Group Bear HugGGG
GB(B/G)The Gitrog Monster: Dredgefall DurdleGB(B/G)
RGWGahiji, the Honored Group Hug MonsterRGW
UB(U/B)Yuriko, Ninja Trinket AggroUB(U/B)
WUBRGAtogatog: Assembling a OHKOWUBRG
For newbie commander players, the decks are a decent jumping off point for new decks, granted you'd need to use Radha as the commander for the green/red deck, but that is not necessarily a bad thing.
All in all, I rate it a solid 8/10. A good solid product with lots of fun for casual players.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
Jeez, even I'm disappointed by these lists, and normally I'm the most stubborn defender of Wizards' decisions on this website. I mean, how hard could Wizards vs. Warriors have been? I expected something more archetypal.
Seriously, who would have put Call of the Herd in Might, let alone two copies? Ancient Craving in Sorin's deck was a little odd, but at least it fit the life drain theme. I could understand Call of the Herd if it gave us Warrior tokens or put +1/+1 counters on your creatures, or if the deck was focused on power in general and the face card didn't call out a tribal theme, but all it does is give you random Elephants to attack with alongside your Warriors and Barbarians. Anthousa, Setessan Hero would have fit better than that.
The arbitrary inclusion of old, off-theme cards has always been one of my greatest pet peeves related to Duel Decks. Why can't you just save that stuff for Commander, or find some other product where the reprint fits better? "Hey, we need to reprint Call of the Herd." "How about we put it in this upcoming Warrior-heavy deck? We'll even put in an extra copy!" And what's up with leaving Berserkers out? Seriously, that's some of the worst "doesn't matter here" since White Knight in Knights vs. Dragons (the latter of which was a monored deck). I would have taken Stormblood Berserker over Skarrgan Pit-Skulk.
Sigh...I'm not used to being this salty. But believe it or not, I don't just blindly support every single decision the company makes. Unlike a lot of outspoken critics around here, I don't throw around the word "garbage" like it's the new trend word and I don't ask for somebody to get fired over what is probably an arbitrary nitpicking. I criticize because I know they can do better, and I want them to. I want to like this product, but these glaring issues lower my desire to buy it and raise my desire to build something better.
Personally I would have made Jori En the face card for Mind (provided I kept it UR) since she's just about the most flexible Wizard out there; she rewards casting Wizards, she rewards casting noncreature spells, she covers the whole package. All she asks is that you cast a second spell each turn, and that shouldn't be hard with a deck focused on casting spells. Jhoira's not a bad Wizard (though she should be an Artificer) but her Suspend ability draws too much attention to a time theme. Jori's all about casting spells; cast two spells in a single turn and win a prize! I would have sprung for a Flashback/Rebound package that gave us stuff like Staggershock and Think Twice; you want Storm in there too, that's fine, it all plays together well.
Lovisa I could handle as the face of Might if they properly built around the tribal theme. Where's Obsidian Battle-Axe, Mage Slayer, and some gosh dang Berserkers? Of course I prefer when a duel deck's face card matches all the colors of the deck, so I would have tried using Radha, Heir to Keld or Ruric Thar, the Unbowed as Might's face card. Even Stonebrow, Krosan Hero would work pretty well since you want to give your creatures Trample and you want to pump them up.
I think what holds these decks back the most is the underlying directive to reprint old cards simply because they're staples; they end up forcing them in a product where they only tangentally fit, and pull focus and dilute the flavor as a result. That's a problem when the product in question is supposed to be built on flavor and trope resonance. I really wish they still put up design articles explaining their choices for duel decklists. I enjoyed reading the article on Knights vs. Dragons which explained that Hunted Dragon was purposefully left out because it gave the Knights deck too much advantage. I want them to explain that stuff to us again.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
In a set inteneded to be drafted the rare label is more understandable for MM3. It's still probably acceptable as an uncommon, but I can understand it.
Also the art on Desperate Ritual is great. Definitely picking it up for storm.
Looking through the decklists, you're right; there are ten rares per deck. Maybe that's going to be the standard going forward? 1 Mythic, 10 Rares, and an assortment of Commons and Uncommons. That'll make it easier to pick out rares for Duel Decks.
And most of the reprints aren't all that bad. Rubblebelt Raiders definitely fits the theme. I've been looking to get a copy of Jori En, Ruin Diver. I guess I just found the aforementioned flaws to be rather glaring.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
(Also known as Xenphire)