As someone who own a cube and are looking for new arts for the current cubable cards that I do owned, this set is kind of disappointing. That said, snapcaster mage looks far better than the old one imo.
What set isn't a gamble? Buying singles is almost always better than cracking packs if you're looking for specific cards. Even in terms of limited, it's not like you're gonna pull three masterpieces from a Kaladesh draft. Even if you open ***** rares, this set is chock full of modern-playable cards. What point are you trying to make?
First of all, that EV is a meaningless concept when you're opening small quantities of packs. You have to open enough to beat variance for EV to be relevant. Average price per rare is better, but you still need to consider how heavily skewed toward the top end that number is. Yes every set is a gamble, but not every set has boosters at a $10 MSRP. I can play three Kaladesh drafts for the price of a single MM2017 draft.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is. We were talking about how it didn't seem worth it to us to draft this set due to the cost and high probability of opening nothing. You started talking about EV, how fetches were going to rebound, and how rares are playable. You're probably not going to open a fetch in three packs, and I don't really care about opening $1 "playable" cards in a $30 draft. I can buy those cards if I want them for $1! Are you just upset that we aren't uniformly positive about MM2017?
Ok. And you'd still be hard-pressed to draft more value from three 3 Kaldesh boxes compared to 1 MM17. I really don't give a ***** how optimistic you are/aren't about the set; different strokes for different folks. My point is: this is a Modern masters set and I'm not expecting to get rich opening packs, drop out of med school, and retire on an island of foil goyfs. I am, however, expecting to open a set that has significantly more modern playable reprints than its predecessor and when I'm done drafting the set, I'll have a decent amount of cards that can be used for future modern deck-building. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not big on limited/cracking packs, but the masters sets are the only ones that I'll draft, because unlike garbage standard sets, the cards that I walk away with will still be relevant a year later.
It's cute that limited players are the ones *****ing about the set not being worth the price of a booster, yet the majority of ***** pulls were only included thanks to their utility in the limited environment.
Cavern of Souls is about, the most interesting card for my casual scrubby self. Upset at it being Mythic, but okay, more copies should reduce the overall value.
This set looks to be more on the goodstuff.draft than it is to be goodstuffromsets.draft.
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Wanted -Zombie Foils and older expensive Zombie stuff. High Priority- Beta Z Master/ Int. Collector's Edition.
What set isn't a gamble? Buying singles is almost always better than cracking packs if you're looking for specific cards. Even in terms of limited, it's not like you're gonna pull three masterpieces from a Kaladesh draft. Even if you open ***** rares, this set is chock full of modern-playable cards. What point are you trying to make?
First of all, that EV is a meaningless concept when you're opening small quantities of packs. You have to open enough to beat variance for EV to be relevant. Average price per rare is better, but you still need to consider how heavily skewed toward the top end that number is. Yes every set is a gamble, but not every set has boosters at a $10 MSRP. I can play three Kaladesh drafts for the price of a single MM2017 draft.
I'm not entirely sure what your point is. We were talking about how it didn't seem worth it to us to draft this set due to the cost and high probability of opening nothing. You started talking about EV, how fetches were going to rebound, and how rares are playable. You're probably not going to open a fetch in three packs, and I don't really care about opening $1 "playable" cards in a $30 draft. I can buy those cards if I want them for $1! Are you just upset that we aren't uniformly positive about MM2017?
Ok. And you'd still be hard-pressed to draft more value from three 3 Kaldesh boxes compared to 1 MM17. I really don't give a ***** how optimistic you are/aren't about the set; different strokes for different folks. My point is: this is a Modern masters set and I'm not expecting to get rich opening packs, drop out of med school, and retire on an island of foil goyfs. I am, however, expecting to open a set that has significantly more modern playable reprints than its predecessor and when I'm done drafting the set, I'll have a decent amount of cards that can be used for future modern deck-building. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not big on limited/cracking packs, but the masters sets are the only ones that I'll draft, because unlike garbage standard sets, the cards that I walk away with will still be relevant a year later.
It's cute that limited players are the ones *****ing about the set not being worth the price of a booster, yet the majority of ***** pulls were only included thanks to their utility in the limited environment.
Yeah so why did you feel the need to respond to me talking about fetches and EVs in the first place?
Correction: I like the set. People who draft are seemingly Luke warm on it due to pack price.
Unless you are very good at it, drafting is burning money every time. Drafting expensive packs is burning more money. That said people that play limited often know this and you need to include the value of the experience into the cost comparison. In addition drafting this set should yield more take-home value:cost than the average standard set will so anyone genuine about drafting should be pretty happy.
Correction: I like the set. People who draft are seemingly Luke warm on it due to pack price.
Unless you are very good at it, drafting is burning money every time. Drafting expensive packs is burning more money. That said people that play limited often know this and you need to include the value of the experience into the cost comparison. In addition drafting this set should yield more take-home value:cost than the average standard set will so anyone genuine about drafting should be pretty happy.
I think MM2017 is the best draft set printed and a much better set than Conspiracy. There is a group I know of at my LGS that just does multiplayer drafts and while I haven't been to my LGS in over a month, I'm sure this will get me to step in there. They really printed this set like crazy, though. Even Massdrop has a thing going for Modern Masters 2017.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Correction: I like the set. People who draft are seemingly Luke warm on it due to pack price.
Unless you are very good at it, drafting is burning money every time. Drafting expensive packs is burning more money. That said people that play limited often know this and you need to include the value of the experience into the cost comparison. In addition drafting this set should yield more take-home value:cost than the average standard set will so anyone genuine about drafting should be pretty happy.
I think MM2017 is the best draft set printed and a much better set than Conspiracy. There is a group I know of at my LGS that just does multiplayer drafts and while I haven't been to my LGS in over a month, I'm sure this will get me to step in there. They really printed this set like crazy, though. Even Massdrop has a thing going for Modern Masters 2017.
I think the reason that may be a shared opinion us mainly because Conspiracy (and #2) were made specifically for drafting and not to reprint cards in need of the additional copies, and not just due to value. Conspiracy 1&2 didn't do well because WotC hemorrhaged product out in a small window last/this year, with little hype leading up those it. What with Innistrad closing, Planechase Anth, Commander 2016, and Kaladesh/Aether Revolt absolutely burying the set, it never had a chance to take off. It also doesn't help that Conspiracy 2 had draft specific mechanics (as the series is meant to have) that virtually make the set worthless except to casual drafters and cube builders. I personally think, as I've said before, that it's going to be awesome to draft, and for the most part I agree with what you're saying, I think the comparison isn't fair for the underappreciated Conspiracy 2 set.
Lol I still can't get over the fact that they up-rared Inquisition and then down graded it back to uncommon.
As some forewarning, I've now witnessed about 24 box openings and there's some seriously swingy boxes thanks to card distribution. If anyone is buying sealed modern masters I highly recommend at least TWO boxes and not one. The reason is that it is exceedingly likely that the box has absolutely nothing of value in it or minimal cards of value in it. Out of the 24 openings 15 of the boxes barely pulled 150 dollars worth, while the remainder were basically insane with two to five fetch lands plus high dollar mythics and one box even had a pack that had a foil Tarmogoyf with a snapcaster mage (that was one opened on Rudy's channel). Out of those remaining nine boxes, about four were just loaded and the remainder were hairline. What is bad is that the boxes that didn't come close to the retail value still had really good cards in them, they just didn't have the ones that were of high dollar value. Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay, and Basilisk's Collar were among some of those good cards, but those guys don't recoup the cost of the pack and especially can't carry the value of complete flops like Blade Splicer, which is still a highly playable card.
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
It is almost as if they are random.
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
It is almost as if they are random.
There is random, and then there is tap dancing and praying to the RNG gods levels of random. I totally expect some boxes to be bad, but they shouldn't be so shotgunned on the value graph. There might be something off with the first wave of boxes is all.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
As some forewarning, I've now witnessed about 24 box openings and there's some seriously swingy boxes thanks to card distribution. If anyone is buying sealed modern masters I highly recommend at least TWO boxes and not one. The reason is that it is exceedingly likely that the box has absolutely nothing of value in it or minimal cards of value in it. Out of the 24 openings 15 of the boxes barely pulled 150 dollars worth, while the remainder were basically insane with two to five fetch lands plus high dollar mythics and one box even had a pack that had a foil Tarmogoyf with a snapcaster mage (that was one opened on Rudy's channel). Out of those remaining nine boxes, about four were just loaded and the remainder were hairline. What is bad is that the boxes that didn't come close to the retail value still had really good cards in them, they just didn't have the ones that were of high dollar value. Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay, and Basilisk's Collar were among some of those good cards, but those guys don't recoup the cost of the pack and especially can't carry the value of complete flops like Blade Splicer, which is still a highly playable card.
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
Because of this very thing I usually purchase sealed cases as distribution usually evens out over a case. Well not today.
I opened my case of 4 boxes and got 13 mythics. Only Liliana was worth more than $8. I also managed to get zero Damnations in those 4 boxes. Having said that I still got at least what I paid for the case out of them (paid $206/box). I did manage to net 3 Blood Moon, 13 fetch lands (4 Verdant, 3 Scalding, 3 Arid, 2 Misty, 1 Marsh) foil Venser, and foil Goyf and Linvala.
All in all this was the worst distribution I have seen over opening at least a case of all 4 Masters sets.
I bought two packs today and got a terminus and a blood moon. I think I'll stop with sealed MM3 while I'm ahead.
Not too shabby. I have two boxes that won't be getting opened anytime soon and then I bought 10 loose packs (8 from 1 box and 2 from another). Notable pulls: Damnation, Linvala, GG, Marsh Flats, Arid Mesa. I probably won't open the boxes for the same reason that has been mentioned above: the fetch distribution doesn't appear to be any given number per box. Rather than buying any more sealed boxes, I'll most likely pick up 4 boosters at a time from different boxes at my LGS and hope that reduces the variance a bit between all-star boxes and ***** boxes.
As some forewarning, I've now witnessed about 24 box openings and there's some seriously swingy boxes thanks to card distribution. If anyone is buying sealed modern masters I highly recommend at least TWO boxes and not one. The reason is that it is exceedingly likely that the box has absolutely nothing of value in it or minimal cards of value in it. Out of the 24 openings 15 of the boxes barely pulled 150 dollars worth, while the remainder were basically insane with two to five fetch lands plus high dollar mythics and one box even had a pack that had a foil Tarmogoyf with a snapcaster mage (that was one opened on Rudy's channel). Out of those remaining nine boxes, about four were just loaded and the remainder were hairline. What is bad is that the boxes that didn't come close to the retail value still had really good cards in them, they just didn't have the ones that were of high dollar value. Path to Exile, Abrupt Decay, and Basilisk's Collar were among some of those good cards, but those guys don't recoup the cost of the pack and especially can't carry the value of complete flops like Blade Splicer, which is still a highly playable card.
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
As someone who has opened plenty of both masters sets (especially modern masters 2015), I can honestly say, that these sorts of products can be very swingy. I ran into similar problems with modern masters 2015 where some boxes were terrible ($100 worth of cards) and some were awesome ($400 worth of cards), it was nuts, but it always averaged out as it should in the overall average. The trouble with boxes where you only get 24 packs per box, is that it increases the chance of randomness coming back to bite you.
Normally in 24 packs you would expect 3 mythics, however that is the overall average and because its right on the border (with 1 mythic per 8 packs as is the previously mentioned distribution of mythics into magic products), you will have quite a few boxes that could fall down to only 2 mythics, while others may get up to 4, thus increasing the swinginess of the boxes.
As for the other cards, you have for the rares a fairly top heavy set (plenty of bulk) though the top stuff is certainly good stuff (I would say at least 2017 is a good bit better than 2015 there on the overall though).
With things like fetches, you have 5 fetches and factoring in the mythic distribution it taking on overall average 60 packs to get 1 of each, that gives it to you at 1 in 12 packs, or 2 per box on average, but just like the mythics it is right there on the border with no cushion leading to many boxes that may have 2, but also plenty that will only have 1, with some that may have 3. That is normal for a 24 pack box like this. Anyone expecting that they should be guaranteed say, 3 mythics per box, or 2 fetches per box (not saying you believe that, just saying in general), are quite likely going to be automatically disappointed because plain and simply random being what it is, may very well not fall on their side except for over very large quantities of boxes.
The other trouble is that many people in general were looking at pre-spoiled prices for the cards in the set when thinking about how much value the set would have and not factoring in how much many of the cards would drop in price after being spoiled and then once the set was released and all that box singles supply began hitting the market and driving down the price of the cards even further. MTGgoldfish I believe it was had an article up as to the 100% overall average value (ie: basically the overall average of value expected over the entire print run of boxes based upon the values of the cards right after the full set was spoiled), and it was at $220 at the time. Since then card prices have come down, as have box preorders with ebay as of earlier today having individual or 2x box listings as low as $200/box, and cases of 4 boxes as low as $190/box.
Singles pressure today alone has been enough to knock many of the top cards down further an continued to obliterate the value of some of the lower/mid range stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to see the overall average box value having dipped down to only $200 or possibly less as of now. That is the trouble with reprint sets especially is that it can take time for the value of singles to drop and settle out into their new normal/stabilized price. As mentioned though, the more boxes you open, the more the random distribution will average itself out to getting closer to that $220 or $200 per box figure, especially when factoring in the foils which of course are going to be even more swingy than everything else.
So I wouldn't say that the 24 boxes you saw may have been anything wrong as far as that goes, its just the nature of a 24-pack higher end product like this where you are going to even more than normal get much more swingy boxes simply due to the nature of what is in the set, and the borderline situations as mentioned above with higher end things like the mythics and cycles like the fetches. This set is vastly superior to 2015 in structure however at the same time that is also going to lead to a lot more boxes being opened based upon perceived value and thus increasing the rate of decline in the singles values (Especially the lower/mid range stuff) until you end up with the value concentrated more than normal into the best of the set (fetches, blood moon, damnation, certain mythics, etc etc).
And for individual rares, like say damnation, with the overall average to pull a specific rare at 1 in 60 packs, that puts the overall average pull rate at 1 in every 2.5 boxes. Which would certainly suggest that overall each case should have at least 1, but as with random distribution being how it is, while most cases will have 1 or 2 per 4 box case, on rare occasions you may end up with some with 0 and some with 3. Double rare boxes happened even with the 2015 modern masters sets (and I've certainly seen plenty of that in normal box openings over the years.)
Random distribution in this case tends to fall on the side of more random with less perfect distribution per box leading to more of those swingy boxes as mentioned due in part to the number of lower end/bulk rares in the set, and there at least being some lower end mythics as well. Its unfortunate, but that's also why I tend to caution people on opening up these sorts of boxes unless you plan to open up a lot of them to average it out, and especially if you are looking for specific cards to make the box/multiple box openings worthwhile, in those cases, unless you are getting added value out of it with say, drafting with friends or otherwise (highly recommended), then I would just save the money and buy the singles you may be after at a reduced price as the singles market continues to flood with all the cards being opened from the set.
Simply having 24 boosters instead of 36 wildly increases variance. I mean it wouldn't be a stretch to say "You can get 3 fetches on average every 36 (Zendikar) Booster Packs" actually feels a lot more accurate in practice compared to "You can get 2 fetches on average every 24 (MM3) Booster Packs". Yes, it a mere 12 booster difference and they're in boxes, but its one of those things that look minor on paper but feels a lot more different when put in reality. Assuming no "foul play" involved, if you bought those 24/36 packs as loose boosters all from different places, I believe it's technically still going to be pretty much the same given enough repetitions. Being in a box sort of gives a "false sense of security". In fact, with 96 boosters in a case (they're still 4 boxes a case right?) compared to the typical 216, you'll need 2 cases to get slightly below the actual numbers (and "security") of a Standard Case.
Still MM3 is a much better product simply by having the fetches, so for those who simply enjoy opening boxes/cases and want to acquire their fetchland playsets, this is a very good set to open up (yes I know singles is always better, which is why I specified people who simply enjoy opening packs). The best sets for thrill pack-opening are those with plenty of cards you want (especially those with land cycles), because it permits you to at least acquire what you want halfway (and still get your pack thrills) before moving onto singles for the rest they're missing. Likewise, as someone who already has playsets of each fetchland, the set doesn't appeal to me personally for thrill-opening because opening a fetchland adds to the burden of having to sell it off instead of reducing it (by reducing the number of singles you need to buy).
Variance is always something you have to deal with. My box was decent despite having no fetches - Liliana, Linvala, Damnation, Blood Moon, Goblin Guide and a total lack of the absolute stinkers (Seance and such) made it worth it. But 0 Path to Exile and 1 Inquisition of Kozilek did strike me as odd.
Ah well, in the end, it's fun cracking packs of this set, and more importantly it increases the distribution of various previously-hard-to-get cards. You should never buy a box with the intent of getting all your cash back, no matter how loaded a set is.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
The variance is huge. And the thing is, with what looks like a gem of a box, with the most valuable mythics possible, I'm still only got about $100 in profit, and that's when adding the sell prices of stores, so in actuality I'd be below that if I sole the cards. And that will probably fall as the card prices fall. Cut the foil fetch and I'd be about even. About even, even with the two best mythics. (I got only one inquisition a no path at uncommon.)
The variance is huge. And the thing is, with what looks like a gem of a box, with the most valuable mythics possible, I'm still only got about $100 in profit, and that's when adding teh sell price of stores, so in actually I'm below that. And that will probably fall as the card prices fall. Cut the foil fetch and I'd be about even. (I got only one inquisition a no path at uncommon.) About even, even with the two best mythics.
Yeah, that is what the good boxes were like. One box someone opened had basically Goblin Guide, Voice of Resurgence, Craterhoof Behemoth, and then tons of RtR and low value rares. Not even a single fetch. Thankfully, his second box sort of made up for it by getting three out of five fetch lands, Damnation, and Snapcaster Mage. I don't honestly remember the rest of it, but there was a Thragtusk. I just don't feel the box should be 240 msrp, especially now that my store owner has said the distributor is getting another wave of boxes in, so it sounds like the rumors of a very big print run may be true.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I really hope newbs aren't trying to make money by buying a box or two. That simply doesn't work. Even if you got in at $170 a box. This is from a guy who has made his fortune on magic. You aren't going to win trying to make $30 on each box.
The variance is huge. And the thing is, with what looks like a gem of a box, with the most valuable mythics possible, I'm still only got about $100 in profit, and that's when adding teh sell price of stores, so in actually I'm below that. And that will probably fall as the card prices fall. Cut the foil fetch and I'd be about even. (I got only one inquisition a no path at uncommon.) About even, even with the two best mythics.
Yeah, that is what the good boxes were like. One box someone opened had basically Goblin Guide, Voice of Resurgence, Craterhoof Behemoth, and then tons of RtR and low value rares. Not even a single fetch. Thankfully, his second box sort of made up for it by getting three out of five fetch lands, Damnation, and Snapcaster Mage. I don't honestly remember the rest of it, but there was a Thragtusk. I just don't feel the box should be 240 msrp, especially now that my store owner has said the distributor is getting another wave of boxes in, so it sounds like the rumors of a very big print run may be true.
Who the hell pays MSRP for ANYTHING? Nobody should pay $240 (and frankly who is?) for a box. MSRP is "recommended", this box was $170 a month ago, and only demand pushed it higher. AKA idiots trying to speculate.
The other trouble is that many people in general were looking at pre-spoiled prices for the cards in the set when thinking about how much value the set would have and not factoring in how much many of the cards would drop in price after being spoiled and then once the set was released and all that box singles supply began hitting the market and driving down the price of the cards even further. MTGgoldfish I believe it was had an article up as to the 100% overall average value (ie: basically the overall average of value expected over the entire print run of boxes based upon the values of the cards right after the full set was spoiled), and it was at $220 at the time. Since then card prices have come down, as have box preorders with ebay as of earlier today having individual or 2x box listings as low as $200/box, and cases of 4 boxes as low as $190/box.
This. Excellent point that many folks don't take into consideration.
Yeah, it's a bad idea evaluating the value of one of these MM boxes based on current card prices. Single's prices are very volatile and calculating value based on pre-release prices doesn't work.
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Modern GB Rock U Flooding Merfolk RUG Delver Midrange WU Monks UW Tempo Geist GW Bogle GW Liege UR Tron B Vampires
Affinity Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity EDH W Akroma GBW Ghave BRU Thrax GR Ruric I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
Speaking of singles, they dipped down greatly between late Thursday and Friday, but have bounced back a bit between late Saturday and early Sunday. I'm sure they'll continue to drop, but that was probably a small correction as Goyf lost slightly more than $6 right before release and bumped back up a few bucks.
When a single draft costs $30 and the majority of the time you're not going to even come remotely close to $30 of cards that creates a lot of feel bad moments. Limited print runs and high MSRP are antithetical to a good draft experience.
It was kind of fun but most of that came from the novelty of seeing these cards together. Set is grindy as hell. Almost every game I played took FOREVER except for a couple of one sided blowouts due to mana screw. I doubt I'll ever do another one of these drafts unless there's a massive print run (and even then probably not) so I guess I'm just glad a lot of singles prices are going down?
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My cube
My cube on Cube tutor
I'm OP_Forever. I'll be putting this in my signature for a while so everyone know I change my nickname.
Ok. And you'd still be hard-pressed to draft more value from three 3 Kaldesh boxes compared to 1 MM17. I really don't give a ***** how optimistic you are/aren't about the set; different strokes for different folks. My point is: this is a Modern masters set and I'm not expecting to get rich opening packs, drop out of med school, and retire on an island of foil goyfs. I am, however, expecting to open a set that has significantly more modern playable reprints than its predecessor and when I'm done drafting the set, I'll have a decent amount of cards that can be used for future modern deck-building. Maybe I'm missing something because I'm not big on limited/cracking packs, but the masters sets are the only ones that I'll draft, because unlike garbage standard sets, the cards that I walk away with will still be relevant a year later.
It's cute that limited players are the ones *****ing about the set not being worth the price of a booster, yet the majority of ***** pulls were only included thanks to their utility in the limited environment.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
This set looks to be more on the goodstuff.draft than it is to be goodstuffromsets.draft.
Selling some cards I don't want.
Generally less than tcg mid.
Yeah so why did you feel the need to respond to me talking about fetches and EVs in the first place?
Unless you are very good at it, drafting is burning money every time. Drafting expensive packs is burning more money. That said people that play limited often know this and you need to include the value of the experience into the cost comparison. In addition drafting this set should yield more take-home value:cost than the average standard set will so anyone genuine about drafting should be pretty happy.
I think MM2017 is the best draft set printed and a much better set than Conspiracy. There is a group I know of at my LGS that just does multiplayer drafts and while I haven't been to my LGS in over a month, I'm sure this will get me to step in there. They really printed this set like crazy, though. Even Massdrop has a thing going for Modern Masters 2017.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Lol I still can't get over the fact that they up-rared Inquisition and then down graded it back to uncommon.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
I think if this set were 36 packs and sold at MSRP 100 usd like a standard set it would be perfectly fine, but yeah, having zero fetches in one box and then having another one loaded to the heavens feels really wrong on the distribution.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It is almost as if they are random.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
There is random, and then there is tap dancing and praying to the RNG gods levels of random. I totally expect some boxes to be bad, but they shouldn't be so shotgunned on the value graph. There might be something off with the first wave of boxes is all.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The Tarn, Misty, Damnation, IOKs, Serum, Paths, and assorted other value was just gravy after that.
The games we all played tonight were fun.
Spirits
Because of this very thing I usually purchase sealed cases as distribution usually evens out over a case. Well not today.
I opened my case of 4 boxes and got 13 mythics. Only Liliana was worth more than $8. I also managed to get zero Damnations in those 4 boxes. Having said that I still got at least what I paid for the case out of them (paid $206/box). I did manage to net 3 Blood Moon, 13 fetch lands (4 Verdant, 3 Scalding, 3 Arid, 2 Misty, 1 Marsh) foil Venser, and foil Goyf and Linvala.
All in all this was the worst distribution I have seen over opening at least a case of all 4 Masters sets.
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Not too shabby. I have two boxes that won't be getting opened anytime soon and then I bought 10 loose packs (8 from 1 box and 2 from another). Notable pulls: Damnation, Linvala, GG, Marsh Flats, Arid Mesa. I probably won't open the boxes for the same reason that has been mentioned above: the fetch distribution doesn't appear to be any given number per box. Rather than buying any more sealed boxes, I'll most likely pick up 4 boosters at a time from different boxes at my LGS and hope that reduces the variance a bit between all-star boxes and ***** boxes.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
As someone who has opened plenty of both masters sets (especially modern masters 2015), I can honestly say, that these sorts of products can be very swingy. I ran into similar problems with modern masters 2015 where some boxes were terrible ($100 worth of cards) and some were awesome ($400 worth of cards), it was nuts, but it always averaged out as it should in the overall average. The trouble with boxes where you only get 24 packs per box, is that it increases the chance of randomness coming back to bite you.
Normally in 24 packs you would expect 3 mythics, however that is the overall average and because its right on the border (with 1 mythic per 8 packs as is the previously mentioned distribution of mythics into magic products), you will have quite a few boxes that could fall down to only 2 mythics, while others may get up to 4, thus increasing the swinginess of the boxes.
As for the other cards, you have for the rares a fairly top heavy set (plenty of bulk) though the top stuff is certainly good stuff (I would say at least 2017 is a good bit better than 2015 there on the overall though).
With things like fetches, you have 5 fetches and factoring in the mythic distribution it taking on overall average 60 packs to get 1 of each, that gives it to you at 1 in 12 packs, or 2 per box on average, but just like the mythics it is right there on the border with no cushion leading to many boxes that may have 2, but also plenty that will only have 1, with some that may have 3. That is normal for a 24 pack box like this. Anyone expecting that they should be guaranteed say, 3 mythics per box, or 2 fetches per box (not saying you believe that, just saying in general), are quite likely going to be automatically disappointed because plain and simply random being what it is, may very well not fall on their side except for over very large quantities of boxes.
The other trouble is that many people in general were looking at pre-spoiled prices for the cards in the set when thinking about how much value the set would have and not factoring in how much many of the cards would drop in price after being spoiled and then once the set was released and all that box singles supply began hitting the market and driving down the price of the cards even further. MTGgoldfish I believe it was had an article up as to the 100% overall average value (ie: basically the overall average of value expected over the entire print run of boxes based upon the values of the cards right after the full set was spoiled), and it was at $220 at the time. Since then card prices have come down, as have box preorders with ebay as of earlier today having individual or 2x box listings as low as $200/box, and cases of 4 boxes as low as $190/box.
Singles pressure today alone has been enough to knock many of the top cards down further an continued to obliterate the value of some of the lower/mid range stuff. I wouldn't be surprised to see the overall average box value having dipped down to only $200 or possibly less as of now. That is the trouble with reprint sets especially is that it can take time for the value of singles to drop and settle out into their new normal/stabilized price. As mentioned though, the more boxes you open, the more the random distribution will average itself out to getting closer to that $220 or $200 per box figure, especially when factoring in the foils which of course are going to be even more swingy than everything else.
So I wouldn't say that the 24 boxes you saw may have been anything wrong as far as that goes, its just the nature of a 24-pack higher end product like this where you are going to even more than normal get much more swingy boxes simply due to the nature of what is in the set, and the borderline situations as mentioned above with higher end things like the mythics and cycles like the fetches. This set is vastly superior to 2015 in structure however at the same time that is also going to lead to a lot more boxes being opened based upon perceived value and thus increasing the rate of decline in the singles values (Especially the lower/mid range stuff) until you end up with the value concentrated more than normal into the best of the set (fetches, blood moon, damnation, certain mythics, etc etc).
And for individual rares, like say damnation, with the overall average to pull a specific rare at 1 in 60 packs, that puts the overall average pull rate at 1 in every 2.5 boxes. Which would certainly suggest that overall each case should have at least 1, but as with random distribution being how it is, while most cases will have 1 or 2 per 4 box case, on rare occasions you may end up with some with 0 and some with 3. Double rare boxes happened even with the 2015 modern masters sets (and I've certainly seen plenty of that in normal box openings over the years.)
Random distribution in this case tends to fall on the side of more random with less perfect distribution per box leading to more of those swingy boxes as mentioned due in part to the number of lower end/bulk rares in the set, and there at least being some lower end mythics as well. Its unfortunate, but that's also why I tend to caution people on opening up these sorts of boxes unless you plan to open up a lot of them to average it out, and especially if you are looking for specific cards to make the box/multiple box openings worthwhile, in those cases, unless you are getting added value out of it with say, drafting with friends or otherwise (highly recommended), then I would just save the money and buy the singles you may be after at a reduced price as the singles market continues to flood with all the cards being opened from the set.
Still MM3 is a much better product simply by having the fetches, so for those who simply enjoy opening boxes/cases and want to acquire their fetchland playsets, this is a very good set to open up (yes I know singles is always better, which is why I specified people who simply enjoy opening packs). The best sets for thrill pack-opening are those with plenty of cards you want (especially those with land cycles), because it permits you to at least acquire what you want halfway (and still get your pack thrills) before moving onto singles for the rest they're missing. Likewise, as someone who already has playsets of each fetchland, the set doesn't appeal to me personally for thrill-opening because opening a fetchland adds to the burden of having to sell it off instead of reducing it (by reducing the number of singles you need to buy).
Ah well, in the end, it's fun cracking packs of this set, and more importantly it increases the distribution of various previously-hard-to-get cards. You should never buy a box with the intent of getting all your cash back, no matter how loaded a set is.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Then the rest of the box had: liliana of the veil, tarmogoyf, goblin guide, misty rainforest, voice of resurgence, death's shadow, restoration angel, thragtusk, scavenging ooze, abrupt decay ... and a foil verdant catacombs!
The variance is huge. And the thing is, with what looks like a gem of a box, with the most valuable mythics possible, I'm still only got about $100 in profit, and that's when adding the sell prices of stores, so in actuality I'd be below that if I sole the cards. And that will probably fall as the card prices fall. Cut the foil fetch and I'd be about even. About even, even with the two best mythics. (I got only one inquisition a no path at uncommon.)
Yeah, that is what the good boxes were like. One box someone opened had basically Goblin Guide, Voice of Resurgence, Craterhoof Behemoth, and then tons of RtR and low value rares. Not even a single fetch. Thankfully, his second box sort of made up for it by getting three out of five fetch lands, Damnation, and Snapcaster Mage. I don't honestly remember the rest of it, but there was a Thragtusk. I just don't feel the box should be 240 msrp, especially now that my store owner has said the distributor is getting another wave of boxes in, so it sounds like the rumors of a very big print run may be true.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Who the hell pays MSRP for ANYTHING? Nobody should pay $240 (and frankly who is?) for a box. MSRP is "recommended", this box was $170 a month ago, and only demand pushed it higher. AKA idiots trying to speculate.
This. Excellent point that many folks don't take into consideration.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
GB Rock
U Flooding Merfolk
RUG Delver Midrange
WU Monks
UW Tempo Geist
GW Bogle
GW Liege
UR Tron
B Vampires
Affinity
Legacy
Fish
Goblins
Burn
Reanimator
Dredge
Affinity
EDH
W Akroma
GBW Ghave
BRU Thrax
GR Ruric
I advocate for the elimination of the combo archetype in Modern. I believe it is degenerate and unfun by its very nature and will always limit design space and cause unnecessary bans.
It was kind of fun but most of that came from the novelty of seeing these cards together. Set is grindy as hell. Almost every game I played took FOREVER except for a couple of one sided blowouts due to mana screw. I doubt I'll ever do another one of these drafts unless there's a massive print run (and even then probably not) so I guess I'm just glad a lot of singles prices are going down?