More like I just have it all already and am thoroughly unimpressed. I'll be happy to beat up on the new scrubs this will bring into the shop for weekly modern.
Afterall the vast majority of the value in this set we opened in Standard at $80-90 per box just a few short years ago.
I should have probably getting it, for reals. Instead I'm sitting on a ton of what I knew for certain wouldn't be reprinted, Hierarchs and Karns and Vials and Explosives, all moving in the correct direction.
Mishra's Bauble was my only miss so of course I'm salty about not having a perfect record on calling these sets. If you maintained my level of excellence, any little mistake would gnaw at you, too. I got in on a set of Bauble's yesterday early morning after the Signets were spoiled but frankly I'm not sure it will be shipped to me, it hasn't yet.
So back to the original intent of my post, the majority of this set's value has all been printed in much cheaper standard sets just the last few years. If you're so new that you don't have that then I suppose it's more understandable to get excited over opening the same cards from $10 packs.
2006 was 11 years ago. A few does not = 11 by any stretch of the definition. Keep trolling.
Bauble only went up in price a year ago. Keep being a dumbass!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
Guys so much anger on this thread, people have the right to not love the set just because every else does. As I've said before, I wasn't sold on this set to begin with but I'm seeing upside to cracking and just buying singles. It's okay to disagree from time to time, Bauble was a solid quarter for years and anyone could've spec.'d it, but everyone kinda got rolled by it. Cards get broken by formats, seemingly out of nowhere at times, so anything is possible. Either way I think, from a draft/sealed standpoint, this should be a fun set to open.
Has it been announced that this is going to be like a typical MM limited print run or is going to have a larger print cycle?
You don't have to be "new" to not have those cards. I quit standard because I don't want to keep paying for a rotating format, especially now that it rotates faster. That's why I choose modern. I'm not going to buy standard packs to get cards just for modern.
When I chose to play modern, I picked one deck. Monetarily, I was stuck to the one deck. This set makes it possible to venture out.
There's no need to be so arrogant or so dismisive of people who haven't been playing recently, but are not newbies either. Some people just have a budget.
2006 was 11 years ago. A few does not = 11 by any stretch of the definition. Keep trolling.
Bauble only went up in price a year ago. Keep being a dumbass!
I believe it was more like two years ago, to be honest.
It hit 10 bucks a short time after FRF release and stayed there.
Before that it was about 2-3 bucks; it had been slowly creeping up over time
As much as I wanted Mishra's Bauble here, these sets are composed largely to be played from draft, and Bauble would be a lousy draft card in this environment - this set doesn't even do Metalcraft/Affinity. Now, when the MM that includes Delirium and Revolt and Improvise and Delve comes around, Bauble will be a playable draft card.
People are getting tricked easy by the secondary market because the investors and card shops often hold cards for long periods before putting them back on the market for increased prices. The reality is that once something ceases being printed it quickly cycles into a pool of cards that investors and speculators eat up and then hold for years to reintroduce if wizards doesn't reprint them. That's probably why people like and hate frontier to some degree: it is a format that has recently printed cards in it right now so availability is high, but it's missing a lot of things from older sets. Wizards could change modern by making it so only cards reprinted over the last 3 years are available in the card pool and that would rectify some of the issues the format has with supply, assuming they do print runs on the scale of MM 2017. So basically any modern legal card printed via commander, standard, eternal masters, or modern masters over the course of 3 years is legal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I should have probably getting it, for reals. Instead I'm sitting on a ton of what I knew for certain wouldn't be reprinted, Hierarchs and Karns and Vials and Explosives, all moving in the correct direction.
Mishra's Bauble was my only miss so of course I'm salty about not having a perfect record on calling these sets. If you maintained my level of excellence, any little mistake would gnaw at you, too. I got in on a set of Bauble's yesterday early morning after the Signets were spoiled but frankly I'm not sure it will be shipped to me, it hasn't yet.
So back to the original intent of my post, the majority of this set's value has all been printed in much cheaper standard sets just the last few years. If you're so new that you don't have that then I suppose it's more understandable to get excited over opening the same cards from $10 packs.
Don't bet on it the hierarch fits the bill for this set.
oh I'll bet on it, and win told ya
Hierarch and chalice/crucible are both high profile cards that would get their own spoiler. If they don't, it's not in the set in question. Everyone knows that that day of the full spoiler will contain mostly draft chaft and nothing of value
You don't have to be "new" to not have those cards. I quit standard because I don't want to keep paying for a rotating format, especially now that it rotates faster.
You know that Standard rotates the way it used to, right? It doesn't rotate fast anymore.
After seeing how modern has been working it's like people want to play a non-rotating format, but the reality is the format is only non-rotating for people that own the cards from out of print sets. For everyone else their window into modern is completely based on what wizards is currently printing because the price on older cards, even if necessary to play the format, are often too high to convince newer players to join in. This set is a positive thing because of how it resolves the worst issue of having fetch lands out of print, as those lands were so expensive people were going to over seas vendors to buy 3rd party professional proxies and taking the risk of getting caught rather than actually buying the fetches (I've been seeing it all over the place and it's an ugly fact no one wants to talk about). I still think the mana base needs to be more heavily price regulated than the main deck cards due to how necessary they are for a format like modern, if for any reason to kill third party proxy vendoring. Wizards can't compete with 90 usd scalding tarn vs 5 usd third party scalding tarn that look and feel just like the real thing.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I am not angry at all. But what I never liked IN ANY GAME: Screwing new players because they are new and don´t know stuff. this doesn´t help anybody. I am totally fine to disagree with someone. And I am totally fine if not every set appeals to everybody. That was not my point at all. I am ok with this set until now even though I will not buy packs or boxes. I just might grab up some singles.
Now get the Chalice out as the last artifact.
I get you man, I'm the same way, Sharking new people is pretty scummy. Newer players shouldn't play modern, mainly because it is just a spikey format (turn 3 wins and the like). If anything "Kitchen table" modern, or casual modern should be the route of newer players if they have their hearts set on modern. I have a friend who's kinda new, who want to play vintage and the joke is, that she doesn't now the untap, upkeep, draw order but wants to seek out bazaars. In short, I guess a set with 9.99 msrp boosters isn't the most ideal for teaching people how to play the game, it does make it easier for those who are new to modern but veteran to the game itself.
After seeing how modern has been working it's like people want to play a non-rotating format, but the reality is the format is only non-rotating for people that own the cards from out of print sets. For everyone else their window into modern is completely based on what wizards is currently printing because the price on older cards, even if necessary to play the format, are often too high to convince newer players to join in. This set is a positive thing because of how it resolves the worst issue of having fetch lands out of print, as those lands were so expensive people were going to over seas vendors to buy 3rd party professional proxies and taking the risk of getting caught rather than actually buying the fetches (I've been seeing it all over the place and it's an ugly fact no one wants to talk about). I still think the mana base needs to be more heavily price regulated than the main deck cards due to how necessary they are for a format like modern, if for any reason to kill third party proxy vendoring. Wizards can't compete with 90 usd scalding tarn vs 5 usd third party scalding tarn that look and feel just like the real thing.
It's not that people on forums don't want to talk about the China proxy or counterfeit card problem going on it's that discussion on the topic gets shutdown all of the time because it is against forums rules to talk about counterfeits in detail. So we are left making general statements on the topic. No one on these forums ever seems to believe me that wizards very low reprint policy is bad for the health of the game. Considering every year that goes by the Chinese continue to improve on the quality of their fake cards. They make a huge profit off of people buying those cards too. A profit that wizards could be making but they continue to make very poor reprint decisions. No one seems to realize that this is just a core set with more than 2x the price for a booster pack. If wizards reprinted these cards at a cheaper price point $4 a pack there would be no issue. They'd just have to release a masters set every year to prevent large card prices.
By wizards not having standard reprints of cards over $30 wizards is normalizing the risky process of ordering proxies from over seas merchants. Just to reiterate what you said and what I've said in the past. No one is going to go buy tarmogofy for $100 when you can buy it for $5. It looks the same, feels the same and the only way you know the difference is if you rip the card in half and see the black paper inside instead of the blue paper. I've seen many players order cards for their decks through these proxy retailers. It's a bad business decision by wizards not reprinting cards. It's as easy as making a set, then all of the mythics are expensive modern cards. Then in the next set of the block you can even repeat those same 15 cards.
Oh I think people realize this set is basically an overpriced core set given some comments I've read on this forum. On the upside, given that they printed a set this rich in needed reprints and have been introducing inventions and other collectors series into standard and increased the print runs, it appears the company is all in on increasing their profit margins and encouraging more box openings, so I have no doubt we are seeing more high value reprints in the future. It's totally possible the next commander product has fetches in it now that they introduced them in MM2017.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
After seeing how modern has been working it's like people want to play a non-rotating format, but the reality is the format is only non-rotating for people that own the cards from out of print sets. For everyone else their window into modern is completely based on what wizards is currently printing because the price on older cards, even if necessary to play the format, are often too high to convince newer players to join in. This set is a positive thing because of how it resolves the worst issue of having fetch lands out of print, as those lands were so expensive people were going to over seas vendors to buy 3rd party professional proxies and taking the risk of getting caught rather than actually buying the fetches (I've been seeing it all over the place and it's an ugly fact no one wants to talk about). I still think the mana base needs to be more heavily price regulated than the main deck cards due to how necessary they are for a format like modern, if for any reason to kill third party proxy vendoring. Wizards can't compete with 90 usd scalding tarn vs 5 usd third party scalding tarn that look and feel just like the real thing.
It's not that people on forums don't want to talk about the China proxy or counterfeit card problem going on it's that discussion on the topic gets shutdown all of the time because it is against forums rules to talk about counterfeits in detail. So we are left making general statements on the topic. No one on these forums ever seems to believe me that wizards very low reprint policy is bad for the health of the game. Considering every year that goes by the Chinese continue to improve on the quality of their fake cards. They make a huge profit off of people buying those cards too. A profit that wizards could be making but they continue to make very poor reprint decisions. No one seems to realize that this is just a core set with more than 2x the price for a booster pack. If wizards reprinted these cards at a cheaper price point $4 a pack there would be no issue. They'd just have to release a masters set every year to prevent large card prices.
By wizards not having standard reprints of cards over $30 wizards is normalizing the risky process of ordering proxies from over seas merchants. Just to reiterate what you said and what I've said in the past. No one is going to go buy tarmogofy for $100 when you can buy it for $5. It looks the same, feels the same and the only way you know the difference is if you rip the card in half and see the black paper inside instead of the blue paper. I've seen many players order cards for their decks through these proxy retailers. It's a bad business decision by wizards not reprinting cards. It's as easy as making a set, then all of the mythics are expensive modern cards. Then in the next set of the block you can even repeat those same 15 cards.
While you covered many salient points regarding the issue, you can't neglect the fact that Magic is as much of a game as it is a collectible. This MM set is pretty liberal in its own right as far as reprints are concerned, but a release every year at $4 a pack is ridiculous and would never happen. For the same reason that the reserve lists still exists, WoTC won't up and decide to tank an entire economy built around its product and risk killing the game. An active secondary market has an indirect positive effect on Hasbro's bottom line; there's no other TCG that comes close to what Magic has built over the last 20+ years.
That's not to downplay the counterfeit issue, because as you explained, it's a legitimate problem that has the potential to shake up the game. However, the bootleggers are still unable to reproduce exact replicas of cards, especially rares with the foil stamp. A jewelers loupe is all one needs in order to identify a counterfeit card that doesn't have that foil stamp. Now that WoTC has basically dropped support for modern & legacy, this has little to no effect on their pride and joy, standard. Yes, the argument exists that fakes will theoretically get more accurate over time, but it would be naive to think that Hasbro/WoTC don't have a division tasked with developing anti-piracy card-features and taking down online sales of fakes. Printing everything into the ground would be an epic business blunder and I can't see it happening so long as the game continues to be Hasbro's main cash cow. As both a player and a collector, I rarely buy cards online anymore and any valuable card that I purchase in general is inspected with a jeweler's loupe. I suggest that anyone who regularly buys older cards invests ~$15 in a loupe because it will save you time, money, and give you peace of mind knowing the cards you're buying/trading for are legit.
An active secondary market has an indirect positive effect on Hasbro's bottom line; there's no other TCG that comes close to what Magic has built over the last 20+ years.
Pokemon TCG is still pretty big. Worldwide, Yu-Gi-Oh may be more popular than Magic. Both games have active secondary markets that aren't nearly as ludicrous as Magic has gotten in the last 5 years.
An active secondary market has an indirect positive effect on Hasbro's bottom line; there's no other TCG that comes close to what Magic has built over the last 20+ years.
Pokemon TCG is still pretty big. Worldwide, Yu-Gi-Oh may be more popular than Magic. Both games have active secondary markets that aren't nearly as ludicrous as Magic has gotten in the last 5 years.
When I say an active secondary market, I'm referring to the literal micro-economy that has been built around pieces of cardboard; one that makes it possible for thousands of local game stores to exist, numerous corporate vendors, niche high-end art collecting communities, and countless other areas in which people have been able to make their living as a result of its existence. I can only speak for the U.S. in this regard, but Yugioh has nothing close to this type of secondary market. Konami may have the record for highest-selling card game, but that's hardly a surprise considering they are essentially the only ones who profit from the game. Again, from the U.S. perspective, you'd be hard-pressed to find a local game store that exclusively deals with Yugioh products, let alone one that can attribute the bulk of its profits to the game. Konami reprints the ***** out of everything, rendering their product essentially worthless after a given amount of time. I'm sure if you took all the sales from SCG, TCGplayer, CardKingdom, ChannelFireball, etc and added them to WoTCs figures, it would be put things into perspective. MTG has managed to do this without mainstream advertisements, children's shows based on the game, etc. It's like comparing the New England Patriots to a JV football team; aside from the fact that they both play football, there's really nothing to compare since it's obvious whose the superior of the two.
Afterall the vast majority of the value in this set we opened in Standard at $80-90 per box just a few short years ago.
To see the rest of the good cards and actually see the no so good ones.
Mishra's Bauble was my only miss so of course I'm salty about not having a perfect record on calling these sets. If you maintained my level of excellence, any little mistake would gnaw at you, too. I got in on a set of Bauble's yesterday early morning after the Signets were spoiled but frankly I'm not sure it will be shipped to me, it hasn't yet.
So back to the original intent of my post, the majority of this set's value has all been printed in much cheaper standard sets just the last few years. If you're so new that you don't have that then I suppose it's more understandable to get excited over opening the same cards from $10 packs.
That's 11 where I am nice that's approximately when I get back from something.
Bauble only went up in price a year ago. Keep being a dumbass!
Has it been announced that this is going to be like a typical MM limited print run or is going to have a larger print cycle?
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Draft my cube! (630 cards)
When I chose to play modern, I picked one deck. Monetarily, I was stuck to the one deck. This set makes it possible to venture out.
There's no need to be so arrogant or so dismisive of people who haven't been playing recently, but are not newbies either. Some people just have a budget.
I believe it was more like two years ago, to be honest.
It hit 10 bucks a short time after FRF release and stayed there.
Before that it was about 2-3 bucks; it had been slowly creeping up over time
Thanks to DNC from Heroes of the Plane Studios for the sig
Check my Pauper Cube!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Man, you are one hell of an arrogant prick.
Here's the rest of the spoliers
Hierarch and chalice/crucible are both high profile cards that would get their own spoiler. If they don't, it's not in the set in question. Everyone knows that that day of the full spoiler will contain mostly draft chaft and nothing of value
You know that Standard rotates the way it used to, right? It doesn't rotate fast anymore.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Oh I think people realize this set is basically an overpriced core set given some comments I've read on this forum. On the upside, given that they printed a set this rich in needed reprints and have been introducing inventions and other collectors series into standard and increased the print runs, it appears the company is all in on increasing their profit margins and encouraging more box openings, so I have no doubt we are seeing more high value reprints in the future. It's totally possible the next commander product has fetches in it now that they introduced them in MM2017.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
While you covered many salient points regarding the issue, you can't neglect the fact that Magic is as much of a game as it is a collectible. This MM set is pretty liberal in its own right as far as reprints are concerned, but a release every year at $4 a pack is ridiculous and would never happen. For the same reason that the reserve lists still exists, WoTC won't up and decide to tank an entire economy built around its product and risk killing the game. An active secondary market has an indirect positive effect on Hasbro's bottom line; there's no other TCG that comes close to what Magic has built over the last 20+ years.
That's not to downplay the counterfeit issue, because as you explained, it's a legitimate problem that has the potential to shake up the game. However, the bootleggers are still unable to reproduce exact replicas of cards, especially rares with the foil stamp. A jewelers loupe is all one needs in order to identify a counterfeit card that doesn't have that foil stamp. Now that WoTC has basically dropped support for modern & legacy, this has little to no effect on their pride and joy, standard. Yes, the argument exists that fakes will theoretically get more accurate over time, but it would be naive to think that Hasbro/WoTC don't have a division tasked with developing anti-piracy card-features and taking down online sales of fakes. Printing everything into the ground would be an epic business blunder and I can't see it happening so long as the game continues to be Hasbro's main cash cow. As both a player and a collector, I rarely buy cards online anymore and any valuable card that I purchase in general is inspected with a jeweler's loupe. I suggest that anyone who regularly buys older cards invests ~$15 in a loupe because it will save you time, money, and give you peace of mind knowing the cards you're buying/trading for are legit.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Pokemon TCG is still pretty big. Worldwide, Yu-Gi-Oh may be more popular than Magic. Both games have active secondary markets that aren't nearly as ludicrous as Magic has gotten in the last 5 years.
When I say an active secondary market, I'm referring to the literal micro-economy that has been built around pieces of cardboard; one that makes it possible for thousands of local game stores to exist, numerous corporate vendors, niche high-end art collecting communities, and countless other areas in which people have been able to make their living as a result of its existence. I can only speak for the U.S. in this regard, but Yugioh has nothing close to this type of secondary market. Konami may have the record for highest-selling card game, but that's hardly a surprise considering they are essentially the only ones who profit from the game. Again, from the U.S. perspective, you'd be hard-pressed to find a local game store that exclusively deals with Yugioh products, let alone one that can attribute the bulk of its profits to the game. Konami reprints the ***** out of everything, rendering their product essentially worthless after a given amount of time. I'm sure if you took all the sales from SCG, TCGplayer, CardKingdom, ChannelFireball, etc and added them to WoTCs figures, it would be put things into perspective. MTG has managed to do this without mainstream advertisements, children's shows based on the game, etc. It's like comparing the New England Patriots to a JV football team; aside from the fact that they both play football, there's really nothing to compare since it's obvious whose the superior of the two.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.