They do not actually cost that. That was the prices before they where printed. Now they have stabelised from 60 to 80 in singels. But they cost about 40 if you wanne buy a box of them. But then there is the cost of moving them into other cards.
Nah I know, but it was like super cheap for the sealed product. There's enough in there to actually make it profitable, because of commander specific cards and functional reprints (Chromatic Lantern, Collective Voyage etc.), and spec cards (Stonehoof Chieftain etc.). These products natural inflate due to print circulation.
They have to print some of this stuff at mythic rare so the EV on the box doesn't exceed MSRP. A $40 card at rare basically drives up the cost of a box twice as much as it does at mythic rare, since any given rare occurs twice as often (21/53, or ~.4 per box) than does any given mythic rare (3/15, or .2 per box).
If Cavern is in this set, it pretty much has to be at Mythic given what's already been spoiled.
The EV on a box will adjust via secondary market prices to below whatever the average retail price is, assuming a large enough print run. Given the way ZEN fetches have tanked since Monday morning you can bet the EV of a MM2017 box was way above MSRP before they spoiled any cards. You expect to open roughly 2 fetches per box, Sunday night that was basically half of MSRP right there.
Likewise, my snark was a bit over the top as well. Bygones be bygones?
Fact is that for most people this isn't a good move. It's going to hurt people's expectations, it's not going to bring enough Snappys on the market to lower it's price keeping them too hard to obtain...so yeah. Not happy.
I like a lot of the cards you have listed but I really would like to see Linvala, keeper of silence instead of Archangel of thune. Linvala has been stuck at 40 forever and I think a mythic reprint would bring her down to 15.
I have a victory tell when I saw her. I did not expect her to be in the set as much as I wanted the reprint.
Value is good. But Dredgevine isn't supposed to be about value. It's supposed to be about V-8; 2000 pounds of nitro boosted war vegetables. The more velocity, the better.
Modern: DredgeVine EDH: Gisela, Blade of Goldnight Anima Standard:
I hope all the folks that posted in this thread sayin this set was going to suck are eating their sneakers right now! also seems like alot of this set is geared for commander which was my initial thought. wizards knows new players are playing edh and are looking for a boost up in the format.
People thought MM2015 and EMA were awesome sets two days in to spoilers too. Just wait. The chaff has already started to be spoiled, and there's a lot of set left to go.
If it were ANYONE but LSV I wouldn't read too much into it, but I'd put money on it being Liliana.
Isn't it a bit suspect for individuals who run large retail enterprises to be given inside info on high profile reprints before the general public and other retailers?
Séance get hype! Linvala is nice reprint, looks like miracles is a def archetype/mechanic. Archangel of Thune would have been nice as a bump for angel tribal but I'm still digging this set.
Séance get hype! Linvala is nice reprint, looks like miracles is a def archetype/mechanic. Archangel of Thune would have been nice as a bump for angel tribal but I'm still digging this set.
If the following cards are included I would call this sett a flawless reprint:
'Goyf
Liliana, of the veil
Noble Hiarch
Mishra's Bauble
Karn, Liberated
Emrakul, eons torn
LotV will be in the set, and I still think there is a good shot for Hierarch as I believe some retailers dropped their prices recently.
Karn is a small possibility, although I don't think there are going to be 3 planewalkers. My guess is the remaining "other" mythics are Voice of Resurgence, Ensnaring Bridge upshifted, and a lame artifact no one cares about (Akroma's Memorial, or maybe Grimoire of the Dead for the Unearth strategy). I guess Batterskull could also be included.
No chance on Emrakul, and Bauble is not very likely as it didn't become a thing until after the set was designed.
As for Goyf, I'm actually starting to think it isn't going to be in with all the other value being spread around. The other green mythic may end up being Thrun or Worldspine Wurm.
My LGS is selling boxes for $215 preorder including taxes. If I'm willing to wait 2-5 months, could I get the box for cheaper than this?
Without a Modern GP, there will likely be more boxes in circulation than usual. With all of the amazing reprints, the demand for this should be much higher than any Masters set previously released. Considering these things, I'm finding it hard to reason one way or another on how this set will sell compared to previous masters.
Could we expect another "surprise" print run like in Eternal Masters? It's crazy to see Eternal Masters at $175 a box today when it was above $300 around release time.
How is this set so insane? I have never seen anything like this in my time of mtg (I started during born of the gods)
Private Mod Note
():
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Modern:
URB Grixis Delver URB
WUB Ad Nauseam WUB
(On Lantern Control)"A guy who literally just sits there and mills cards he doesn't like from your library while he slowly, slowly kills you this way."
"If a person's profile includes anime or My Little Pony, feel free to ignore everything they say."
Finally all the Liliana fan boys can sigh. I'm indifferent to her reprint, personally, it helps LGSs justify the price hike in packs. Kinda Cool we get Craterhoof and Basilisk Collar.
(Sry for late post, just now checking the new spoilers)
My LGS is selling boxes for $215 preorder including taxes. If I'm willing to wait 2-5 months, could I get the box for cheaper than this?
Without a Modern GP, there will likely be more boxes in circulation than usual. With all of the amazing reprints, the demand for this should be much higher than any Masters set previously released. Considering these things, I'm finding it hard to reason one way or another on how this set will sell compared to previous masters.
Could we expect another "surprise" print run like in Eternal Masters? It's crazy to see Eternal Masters at $175 a box today when it was above $300 around release time.
It's hard to tell, it's also really based on numbers. You are right they can always print another run, which they have a precedent for now that they've done it with EMA. I think hype prices/buys mess with price a lot.
My LGS is selling boxes for $215 preorder including taxes. If I'm willing to wait 2-5 months, could I get the box for cheaper than this?
Without a Modern GP, there will likely be more boxes in circulation than usual. With all of the amazing reprints, the demand for this should be much higher than any Masters set previously released. Considering these things, I'm finding it hard to reason one way or another on how this set will sell compared to previous masters.
Could we expect another "surprise" print run like in Eternal Masters? It's crazy to see Eternal Masters at $175 a box today when it was above $300 around release time.
It's hard to tell, it's also really based on numbers. You are right they can always print another run, which they have a precedent for now that they've done it with EMA. I think hype prices/buys mess with price a lot.
Based on pre-order prices and information coming from LGS owners, it seems like we won't see an EMA-style "surprise supply" come July. It seems like they printed much more than MM15, but instead of holding some back to release later, it appears that WoTC said "**** it. Here ya go; go nuts" and allocated it all up-front to distributors. Then again, who the hell knows anymore?
How is this set so insane? I have never seen anything like this in my time of mtg (I started during born of the gods)
The sett is not insane. It is a very good sett for players who want to buy cards they do not have. Some of the most important cards to have in modern are the fetchlands, these where last printed 8 years ago. Imagine you want 4 Scalding Tarn and 3 Windsept Heath for your Jeskai Controll deck. A week ago that had a base value of about 470$ (se prices below) as I am typing this the pirce for that is now 314. Almost 33% discount.
In addition, you have an expected value of the sett. If you take all of the cards in the sett, and open uop enough boxes of the sett, you will get all the cards. Say one Display cost 199. If the expected value (the averadge) you get out of a display is above 199, you can now sell what you oponened and do it again. Therefore, the expected value will never be hier then the cost of the display.
For every good high value card you put into the sett, the expected value goes up, and hence, the prices of the cards go down. Liliana of the veil is a very high cost card ar 100$ If she does not go down in price, the rest of the cards in MM17 will be even cheaper. Usualy there is only a few good cards. But:
1: We have at least 1 high money mythic rare (liliana)
2: All of the fetchlands are worth a lott, and they are at rare. So they will apear more often.
3: Other really good rares are in the sett. Goblin guide for instance.
4: This sett has some very good uncommons. Inquesition of Kizlek used to be 8$. So if you open that one, you have alreayd gotten your expected value back.
We are still missing some rares, and some mythics, some common and uncommon. There more of them there are, the more insane this will be.
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I have dyslexia, no I am not going to spell check for you, yes you have to live with the horrors of it.
How is this set so insane? I have never seen anything like this in my time of mtg (I started during born of the gods)
The packs cost $10 and lots of these cards are actually losses if you open them (e.g. Abrupt Decay), you just don't feel as bad about it as you did with 2015 because they're still playables.
Well, given the colors of the set they either are printing Noble Hierarch or yet another Birds of Paradise. It would be interesting if they printed both mana fixers and set Birds of Paradise at uncommon, but that doesn't seem likely.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Well, given the colors of the set they either are printing Noble Hierarch or yet another Birds of Paradise. It would be interesting if they printed both mana fixers and set Birds of Paradise at uncommon, but that doesn't seem likely.
There's a legit argument for Hierarch due to the Bant subtheme in a way, as they printed Shardlands, but I'm expecting Birds again at rare. Not a bad rare, but it's not Hierarch.
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(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
The EV on a box will adjust via secondary market prices to below whatever the average retail price is, assuming a large enough print run. Given the way ZEN fetches have tanked since Monday morning you can bet the EV of a MM2017 box was way above MSRP before they spoiled any cards. You expect to open roughly 2 fetches per box, Sunday night that was basically half of MSRP right there.
WISH GRANTED
https://twitter.com/lsv/status/836757968620236800
If it were ANYONE but LSV I wouldn't read too much into it, but I'd put money on it being Liliana.
Of course
Modern:
EDH:
Standard:
People thought MM2015 and EMA were awesome sets two days in to spoilers too. Just wait. The chaff has already started to be spoiled, and there's a lot of set left to go.
Isn't it a bit suspect for individuals who run large retail enterprises to be given inside info on high profile reprints before the general public and other retailers?
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Archangel can be downgraded to rare but that will be a miracle.
I do think this is insane.
If the following cards are included I would call this sett a flawless reprint:
'Goyf
Liliana, of the veil
Noble Hiarch
Mishra's Bauble
Karn, Liberated
Emrakul, eons torn
The last 3 I do not think will be in the sett. I do think and hope the first 3 are in the sett.
Hierarch and Hellkite?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Well we just got Craterhoof Behemoth, so there's half of Green's.
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
LotV will be in the set, and I still think there is a good shot for Hierarch as I believe some retailers dropped their prices recently.
Karn is a small possibility, although I don't think there are going to be 3 planewalkers. My guess is the remaining "other" mythics are Voice of Resurgence, Ensnaring Bridge upshifted, and a lame artifact no one cares about (Akroma's Memorial, or maybe Grimoire of the Dead for the Unearth strategy). I guess Batterskull could also be included.
No chance on Emrakul, and Bauble is not very likely as it didn't become a thing until after the set was designed.
As for Goyf, I'm actually starting to think it isn't going to be in with all the other value being spread around. The other green mythic may end up being Thrun or Worldspine Wurm.
Gorgeous art though, the original was beyond hideous.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
My LGS is selling boxes for $215 preorder including taxes. If I'm willing to wait 2-5 months, could I get the box for cheaper than this?
Without a Modern GP, there will likely be more boxes in circulation than usual. With all of the amazing reprints, the demand for this should be much higher than any Masters set previously released. Considering these things, I'm finding it hard to reason one way or another on how this set will sell compared to previous masters.
Could we expect another "surprise" print run like in Eternal Masters? It's crazy to see Eternal Masters at $175 a box today when it was above $300 around release time.
(Sry for late post, just now checking the new spoilers)
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
(W/U)(B/R)GForm of Progenitus, Shape of a Scrubland
BRGJund Tokens with Prossh, the Magic Dragon Foil
URGAnimar, the RUG CleanerFoil
RRRFeldon of the Third Path 2.0 Foil
BG(B/G)Not Another Meren DeckFoil
UR(U/R)Mizzix, Y Control and X Burn Spells
(W/U)(B/R)GHarold Ramos - The 35 Foot Long Twinkie (In +1/+1 counters)
UB(U/B)Dragonlord Silumgar
Based on pre-order prices and information coming from LGS owners, it seems like we won't see an EMA-style "surprise supply" come July. It seems like they printed much more than MM15, but instead of holding some back to release later, it appears that WoTC said "**** it. Here ya go; go nuts" and allocated it all up-front to distributors. Then again, who the hell knows anymore?
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
The sett is not insane. It is a very good sett for players who want to buy cards they do not have. Some of the most important cards to have in modern are the fetchlands, these where last printed 8 years ago. Imagine you want 4 Scalding Tarn and 3 Windsept Heath for your Jeskai Controll deck. A week ago that had a base value of about 470$ (se prices below) as I am typing this the pirce for that is now 314. Almost 33% discount.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar/Scalding Tarn#paper
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/price/Zendikar/Arid Mesa#paper
In addition, you have an expected value of the sett. If you take all of the cards in the sett, and open uop enough boxes of the sett, you will get all the cards. Say one Display cost 199. If the expected value (the averadge) you get out of a display is above 199, you can now sell what you oponened and do it again. Therefore, the expected value will never be hier then the cost of the display.
For every good high value card you put into the sett, the expected value goes up, and hence, the prices of the cards go down. Liliana of the veil is a very high cost card ar 100$ If she does not go down in price, the rest of the cards in MM17 will be even cheaper. Usualy there is only a few good cards. But:
1: We have at least 1 high money mythic rare (liliana)
2: All of the fetchlands are worth a lott, and they are at rare. So they will apear more often.
3: Other really good rares are in the sett. Goblin guide for instance.
4: This sett has some very good uncommons. Inquesition of Kizlek used to be 8$. So if you open that one, you have alreayd gotten your expected value back.
We are still missing some rares, and some mythics, some common and uncommon. There more of them there are, the more insane this will be.
The packs cost $10 and lots of these cards are actually losses if you open them (e.g. Abrupt Decay), you just don't feel as bad about it as you did with 2015 because they're still playables.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
There's a legit argument for Hierarch due to the Bant subtheme in a way, as they printed Shardlands, but I'm expecting Birds again at rare. Not a bad rare, but it's not Hierarch.