I really hope they learnt their lesson from MM2 that at MSRP 10, they don't really act like they expected people to be drafting a lot of these (especially since every pack has a foil...) MM2 really annoyed me that the marketing seemed to be revolving around a "great draft experience" when the price tag just went right against that.
I'm aware that the MSRP is the same, which is why I hope they learnt the lesson and just place the product with more emphasis on "premium card" than Limited Play. I mean, if they lowered the MSRP of MM2 (and increased the print which they did) I would have been vastly less annoyed by the "Limited Experience" marketing they were literally parading with the product, but since MSRP is already set, I can only hope they just keep it to the likes of MM1 (but still with increased print run so investor-hoarders don't just buyout).
I have nothing against Limited itself (the typical ones are okay with me, sometimes even great), but their marketing for Limited has always been "great print runs and low prices so it can fit the masses" and physically the Masters series don't meet either of the criteria, so the marketing seemed outright hypocritical in a way especially when MM2 came out.
To be fair,
the "awesome limited experience!!!" stuff they were touting was much more prominent for MM1 (and rightfully so).
They didn't push that aspect of it anywhere near as loudly for MM2.
While true, most of the commons and uncommons in MM2 were literally draft chaff, meant to make drafting interesting and not to appeal to the actual Modern-playing crowd. As well as some cards on Rare (Long-Forgotten Gohei comes to mind). This has left a rather sour taste. Most people who buy MM really don't care about drafting, they care about modern playables.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
If it was a set packed with playable modern cards and NOT built for drafting, it would be opened way more.
[citation needed]
Wizards makes the set draftable because they know that limited moves product. They also know that a set doesn't need to be 100% playable cards for it to sell well, and a higher pack EV would just be used to justify a price increase anyways. Face it, this is a situation where the best choice for the company isn't advantageous for players. The TCG business model is built on a foundation of bad cards.
I think just being full of playables would not be more opened and would be bad for everyone. There is a balance to be had, a balance between WotC, players, drafters and investors. I think the balance eternal masters struck was great, the balance struck by mm1 was poor in one direction, and the balance in mm2 was too far in the opposite direction. If the set is filled with playables and a poor draft experience, the cost per pack goes up since the EV is high, the amount of packs opened drops since people dont want to pay the inflated price and there is no incentive to overpay for a poor draft format. If the set is full of garbage but an amazing draft experience, the limited players will draft it a bunch but no one will crack packs. Both of these scenarios decrease the amount of packs opened, resulting in the value of the cards in the set decreasing less. This is all bad for the limited players since they either have to pay an arm and a leg for a bad draft format or have no chance of making back even a decent chunk of their investment in the draft, which is a big deal when your paying $30+ to draft. Its bad for the players since neither situation helps reduce the cost of building a deck. Its bad for WotC since stores will buy less product in both scenarios. It is sort of weird for investors, since prices staying where they are is good for them, but on the other hand Masters sets are great times to invest since cards bottom of them recover slowly over the next year or 2, so their current investments stay stable but they cant make new ones effectively. If you strike a balance like in EMA, you get a great drafting experience with meaningful reprints, it gets opened by both drafters and players, so wotc sells more product, prices drop a meaningful amount, players get sweet cards, drafters get a great, sustainable draft environment, and investors do whatever they do in these situations.
Saffron olive wrote an article about wizards reprinting strategy. If they loaded up the set with all modern staples and expensive cards, it would cause other issues.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
1. Damnation
2. Tarmogoyf
3. Dark Confidant or Liliana of the Veil
4. Ancestral Visions
I think AV is a likely bet given the excitement around it after last year's unbanning. Goyf just seems like too big a piece of Modern Masters' identity (and too valuable in building interest and excitement) not to feature. The first edition not to feature it will probably forever bear the wretched stigma of "That one without Goyf."
I'm pretty certain we'll see Snapcaster and LotV too. But that one's just more of a hunch and a vague sense of "Yeah, it's time."
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Playing UX Mana Denial until Modern gets the answers it needs.
WUBRG Humans BRW Mardu Pyromancer UW UW "Control" UR Blue Moon
1. Damnation
2. Tarmogoyf
3. Dark Confidant or Liliana of the Veil
4. Ancestral Visions
I think AV is a likely bet given the excitement around it after last year's unbanning. Goyf just seems like too big a piece of Modern Masters' identity (and too valuable in building interest and excitement) not to feature. The first edition not to feature it will probably forever bear the wretched stigma of "That one without Goyf."
I'm pretty certain we'll see Snapcaster and LotV too. But that one's just more of a hunch and a vague sense of "Yeah, it's time."
That and Snapcaster and Lily V are available to be reprinted for the first time in MMs. We'll definitely see them, whether or not our blue flashy friend stays rare or not.
It might be just player bias, but I don't really see Snapcaster Mage moving to Mythic. They have Liliana of the Veil as the product's "new chase card" (although like may others said/hoped, Goyf better still be in the set because it still "represents" the format in some way, even if it doesn't have the freshness factor anymore.)
Dark Confidant could get away with it because he was printed in a pre-Mythic era. Despite the whole mess that was MM2, Noble Hierarch, a post-Mythic era rare remained as one so I'm thinking Snap might be the set's "Hierarch". Damnation, however, came from a pre-Mythic era and stands a solid chance of being Mythic and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for us, since Damnation isn't really played as a 4-of absolute staple and only went up that much because its Modern playability was mixed together with both scarcity and casual-appeal. Even at Mythic, I can see Damnation's price taking the dive it needed. If Mana Crypt could drop and suffered from a much-worse scarcity problem, I don't see how Damnation cannot (Damnation also has a Judge Foil to mirror the Masterpiece Crypt to some degree.)
A second printing of Sword of Fire and Ice with the MM art would be nice. That is one popular card thanks to the fact it matches the sword cycle from the Scars block.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It might be just player bias, but I don't really see Snapcaster Mage moving to Mythic. They have Liliana of the Veil as the product's "new chase card" (although like may others said/hoped, Goyf better still be in the set because it still "represents" the format in some way, even if it doesn't have the freshness factor anymore.)
Dark Confidant could get away with it because he was printed in a pre-Mythic era. Despite the whole mess that was MM2, Noble Hierarch, a post-Mythic era rare remained as one so I'm thinking Snap might be the set's "Hierarch". Damnation, however, came from a pre-Mythic era and stands a solid chance of being Mythic and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for us, since Damnation isn't really played as a 4-of absolute staple and only went up that much because its Modern playability was mixed together with both scarcity and casual-appeal. Even at Mythic, I can see Damnation's price taking the dive it needed. If Mana Crypt could drop and suffered from a much-worse scarcity problem, I don't see how Damnation cannot (Damnation also has a Judge Foil to mirror the Masterpiece Crypt to some degree.)
I've always wondered why folks think Damnation needs to be rarer than Wrath of God. Wrath has always been a rare, minus the FTV reprint, and it isn't like one does more than the other. It doesn't feel as mythic when compared to ones we should be getting like Griselbrand, Lily V, Dark Confidant, or Phyrexian Obliterator. Frankly we should have seen Damnation reprinted twice by now, one in FTV: Annihilation and in a non Standard set.
I've always wondered why folks think Damnation needs to be rarer than Wrath of God. Wrath has always been a rare, minus the FTV reprint, and it isn't like one does more than the other. It doesn't feel as mythic when compared to ones we should be getting like Griselbrand, Lily V, Dark Confidant, or Phyrexian Obliterator. Frankly we should have seen Damnation reprinted twice by now, one in FTV: Annihilation and in a non Standard set.
Actually, personally I don't really care whether Damnation is Rare or Mythic, I'm just viewing it statistically that Damnation isn't a 4-of staple in the format and as such would actually cause less uproar in the market department than if some other upgraded (coughsnapcastercough) rare that was more of a "staple" took that slot instead (or even worse, some unusable card).
I agree with you that functionally it doesn't feel (or fit) Mythic at all, but it's one of those cards whose "meta-flavor" has already created a "Mythical" status for itself due to its (artificial) scarcity. Functionally it's Wrath of God, but "meta-flavorfully" it's a "rarer version of Wrath of God". Even if we take redundancy out of the equation, this is essentially what happened to the P3K functional reprints (although the P3K ones were a lot more potent at redundancy, I'm pointing out it still has a part in the same process).
Note that I'm just pointing how it works "psychologically" from a neutral perspective, I'm not indicating I'm in support of it. But Damnation is also one of those cases where the upshift in rarity wouldn't actually create a as bad "lockout" effect most Modern Staples do, so I'm stating the possible "psychological" reasons for doing it and since it doesn't really "harm" the market as it would with other staples, I'm relatively neutral to it. I'm not going to go "it's not possible" if Damnation does appear as a rare (it'll be a nice surprise to me as a consumer), but I'm pointing out there are reasons (that sounds silly to the individual but makes sense when you see the overall view in numbers) why they might do just that.
If Liliana of the Veil gets reprinted in MM3, how will this affect her price? Do you think that the price will drop deep or stay where it is?
I`m willing to bet that she is in the set, and I`d expect a price dip of no more than $20, as she`s going to be the chase card and demand for her is sky high.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
so this mm will finally be the one giving us damnation, right? R-right?
B-B-But if the finally reprint damnation, then what card do we get to complain about that need a reprint?
Honestly, it doesn't appear to see alot of play in modern, besides the occasional jund deck. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't get a reprint until EMA 2018.
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pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
If Liliana of the Veil gets reprinted in MM3, how will this affect her price? Do you think that the price will drop deep or stay where it is?
Given past MM reprints of chase mythics, she'll get a little drop but nothing too impactful. Beyond that, her price will remain dictated by the meta and her correlating demand. Don't expect drops of over 25% in any case, and if things stay as they are, expect her to slowly climb back to her old perch afterwards.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
This is not the place for Banlist talk, keep that to the modern subforum.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
If Liliana of the Veil gets reprinted in MM3, how will this affect her price? Do you think that the price will drop deep or stay where it is?
I`m willing to bet that she is in the set, and I`d expect a price dip of no more than $20, as she`s going to be the chase card and demand for her is sky high.
I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make her even more sought-after
by giving her new art, but it would be tough to top the iconic original art.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Whatever they do, I'm hoping they do modern masters original with the print run of modern masters 2015 and not do another modern masters 2015. They need to jam pack the set full of value to justify the 200+ usd per box and even then I still think having it 36 boosters instead of 24 would go a long way in improving the affordability of drafts.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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While true, most of the commons and uncommons in MM2 were literally draft chaff, meant to make drafting interesting and not to appeal to the actual Modern-playing crowd. As well as some cards on Rare (Long-Forgotten Gohei comes to mind). This has left a rather sour taste. Most people who buy MM really don't care about drafting, they care about modern playables.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Spirits
[citation needed]
Wizards makes the set draftable because they know that limited moves product. They also know that a set doesn't need to be 100% playable cards for it to sell well, and a higher pack EV would just be used to justify a price increase anyways. Face it, this is a situation where the best choice for the company isn't advantageous for players. The TCG business model is built on a foundation of bad cards.
UWRjeskai nahiri UWR
UBRgrixis titi UBR
UBRgrixis delverUBR
UR ur kikimite UR
EDH
RUG Riku of Two Reflections RUG
UBR Marchesa, the Black Rose UBR
UBRGYidris, Maelstrom Wielder UBRG
UBRJeleva, Nephalia's ScourgeUBR
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/how-wizards-manages-its-savings-account
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Spirits
1. Damnation
2. Tarmogoyf
3. Dark Confidant or Liliana of the Veil
4. Ancestral Visions
Modern
Commander
Cube
<a href="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/the-cube-forum/cube-lists/588020-unpowered-themed-enchantment-an-enchanted-evening">An Enchanted Evening Cube </a>
I think AV is a likely bet given the excitement around it after last year's unbanning. Goyf just seems like too big a piece of Modern Masters' identity (and too valuable in building interest and excitement) not to feature. The first edition not to feature it will probably forever bear the wretched stigma of "That one without Goyf."
I'm pretty certain we'll see Snapcaster and LotV too. But that one's just more of a hunch and a vague sense of "Yeah, it's time."
WUBRG Humans
BRW Mardu Pyromancer
UW UW "Control"
UR Blue Moon
That and Snapcaster and Lily V are available to be reprinted for the first time in MMs. We'll definitely see them, whether or not our blue flashy friend stays rare or not.
Dark Confidant could get away with it because he was printed in a pre-Mythic era. Despite the whole mess that was MM2, Noble Hierarch, a post-Mythic era rare remained as one so I'm thinking Snap might be the set's "Hierarch". Damnation, however, came from a pre-Mythic era and stands a solid chance of being Mythic and that isn't necessarily a bad thing for us, since Damnation isn't really played as a 4-of absolute staple and only went up that much because its Modern playability was mixed together with both scarcity and casual-appeal. Even at Mythic, I can see Damnation's price taking the dive it needed. If Mana Crypt could drop and suffered from a much-worse scarcity problem, I don't see how Damnation cannot (Damnation also has a Judge Foil to mirror the Masterpiece Crypt to some degree.)
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I've always wondered why folks think Damnation needs to be rarer than Wrath of God. Wrath has always been a rare, minus the FTV reprint, and it isn't like one does more than the other. It doesn't feel as mythic when compared to ones we should be getting like Griselbrand, Lily V, Dark Confidant, or Phyrexian Obliterator. Frankly we should have seen Damnation reprinted twice by now, one in FTV: Annihilation and in a non Standard set.
Actually, personally I don't really care whether Damnation is Rare or Mythic, I'm just viewing it statistically that Damnation isn't a 4-of staple in the format and as such would actually cause less uproar in the market department than if some other upgraded (coughsnapcastercough) rare that was more of a "staple" took that slot instead (or even worse, some unusable card).
I agree with you that functionally it doesn't feel (or fit) Mythic at all, but it's one of those cards whose "meta-flavor" has already created a "Mythical" status for itself due to its (artificial) scarcity. Functionally it's Wrath of God, but "meta-flavorfully" it's a "rarer version of Wrath of God". Even if we take redundancy out of the equation, this is essentially what happened to the P3K functional reprints (although the P3K ones were a lot more potent at redundancy, I'm pointing out it still has a part in the same process).
Note that I'm just pointing how it works "psychologically" from a neutral perspective, I'm not indicating I'm in support of it. But Damnation is also one of those cases where the upshift in rarity wouldn't actually create a as bad "lockout" effect most Modern Staples do, so I'm stating the possible "psychological" reasons for doing it and since it doesn't really "harm" the market as it would with other staples, I'm relatively neutral to it. I'm not going to go "it's not possible" if Damnation does appear as a rare (it'll be a nice surprise to me as a consumer), but I'm pointing out there are reasons (that sounds silly to the individual but makes sense when you see the overall view in numbers) why they might do just that.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
B-B-But if the finally reprint damnation, then what card do we get to complain about that need a reprint?
Honestly, it doesn't appear to see alot of play in modern, besides the occasional jund deck. It wouldn't surprise me if it didn't get a reprint until EMA 2018.
pucatrade
big receipts
alpha mox emerald
beta time walk
4 goyfs received
3 liliana of the veil
4 karn liberated
3 force of will
4 grove of the burnwillows
snapcaster mage
3 horizon canopy
2 full art damnation
Given past MM reprints of chase mythics, she'll get a little drop but nothing too impactful. Beyond that, her price will remain dictated by the meta and her correlating demand. Don't expect drops of over 25% in any case, and if things stay as they are, expect her to slowly climb back to her old perch afterwards.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
I also wouldn't be surprised if they tried to make her even more sought-after
by giving her new art, but it would be tough to top the iconic original art.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!