Oooh~ Two new Walkers in a non-return set~! (When did this happen last? My set knowledge eludes me).
And also, what detailed design!
And WELP, there goes the Gatewatch swooping in the day....
Lorwyn probably. Sadly I suspect that the rest of the Magic Avengers will not be that far behind.
Well, for an individual set:
Lorwyn introduced 5 non-native Planeswalkers.
Shards of Alara introduced 3 new Planeswalkers, 2 non-native.
Zendikar introduced 2 new walkers, 1 non-native.
Avacyn Restored (does that count as a return if we never left Innistrad?) introduced 2 new non-native walkers.
Theros introduced 2 new walkers, 1 native, 1 non-native.
So, Theros is the last time it happened, which was 2013, which was 3 years ago. But that seems disingenuous when you consider that we've only been to one new plane since then.
Why would Gideon, who is not going to Kaladesh, get a card before Nissa, who is going to Kaladesh.
*sigh* I explained the reasoning in the very same post you quoted. Gideon and Jace are going to get called in on the 2nd set when the "new order of artifice" escalates the situation (much like everyone was called in when Emrakul appeared). Who is more likely to get a card, a planeswalker who is already part of the story since the first block or a planeswalker that gets called in to help deal with the emerging issue and is added to the story?
Now that said - that was posted before the Amonkhet reveal. Gideon is a better fit for Amonkhet than Nissa is. So it makes sense for Nissa to get a card in AEther revolt, Gideon and Liliana in Amonkhet block and Jace in the set after that (which I expect to be Vryn)
OK, I hope there's a thread in the story subforum to address this, because.... what? Dovin Baan 'hires' the Gatewatch??
Tries to - but they decide that the issue is a local politics issue and not a planar catastrophe so they decline (with some disagreement on the issue). However, I suspect that the "new order of artifice" Baan mentions will escalate the situation and the Gatewatch will be called in full force. Baan isn't the type to use a phrase like that lightly.
My curiosity lies with the black colors. This is a very bright and colorful world, but all five colors have to be represented so who is representing black on Kaladesh? Could be the reasoning behind the revolt.
I know that Black is not neccessary evil, but if you consider it a bit, we had never had this kind of villain. The sneaky bastard. A role best fit for B. Most likely i will be proven wrong, but hell something really tickles me he is in fact a double agent or something!
We have had "sneaky bastard" villains before. Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, for example. Alhammarret was only a minor villain, but he still qualifies. Dovin's hypothetical sneakiness and/or bastardry have no impact on whether or not he's black.
There have also been two blocks with three walkers of the same color in a set without breaking color parity (Innistrad 1 had 3 Black walkers, Theros had 3 Green walkers).
Four blocks. Alara had 3 red 'walkers, and Shadows over Innistrad had 3 white ones. Unless you're not counting three-color planeswalkers for some reason?
Well, seeing as how Vraska was mentioned in the story, and that she specifically targeted the UW Azorious guild, I don't think it is a stretch for her to also target the UW aligned counsel.
It actually is a stretch. She targeted the Azorius for revenge. Because it was them specifically who wronged her. And these days, she's more power-hungry than vengeance-hungry. It's not like she has some hatred for all UW organizations, so her targeting Kaladesh's government is no more likely than her attacking any government on any plane she finds herself on. And we have no evidence that she's currently on or heading to Kaladesh.
Just because they mentioned her plot thread, doesn't mean they're going to follow up on it immediately. Remember, we had half a year between (in Dragons of Tarkir) Ugin telling Sorin to find Nahiri and (in Shadows over Innistad) Sorin actually finding her.
To anybody complaining about the Gatewatch being forced in: They are not. They initially refused to get involved as the Gatewatch. Chandra, Liliana and Nissa, though, have now travelled there out of personal desire.
Ehm... For me that counts as "being forced in".
Why? Because they didn't wnat to go, but went anyway because "plot".
EDIT: unless you mean "forced into action by something or someone else".
Did you read the story? The members of the Gatewatch that are going do so because they want to and not in their role of Gatewatchers. Chandra is drunk with rage and evoked despair and Lili is obviously being a horrible influence to secretly further her own agenda. Nissa is simply going out of friendship. This is not a Gatewatch story (they flat out refused participation), it is a Chandra story and it just happens that she is a Gatewatcher.
Also, note that Dovin is a carefully calculating person. It seems extremely suspicious to me that he made the "mistake" of misunderstanding the Gatewatch's mission and approached them with a mundane event policing request and then learned that "coincidentally" a member of the GW was a wanted person from his plane. He may had been targeting Chandra from the get go.
Then too bad they are throwing in Liliana and Nissa... More than half of the gatewatch, that is.
Initially they didn't want to go, then they were asked to not go and then... Oh, Chandra changed her mind (probably Liliana's fault) and went there, forcing another to get her back...
That is "throwing them in" because they have to throw them in in every main block plot from now on.
So would you imagine a visit to Kaladesh and not including Chandra? Moreover, it's most assured that not all three of them will get a card, especially not Liliana. Finally, I really don't understand the complaint. Any serialised story in books, TV, movies, comics, games, etc. almost always has a cast of returning characters. Why is it bad when Magic does it? "Damn, this stupid Superman guy keeps appearing in my Justice League comics! Lazy authors!"
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
There have also been two blocks with three walkers of the same color in a set without breaking color parity (Innistrad 1 had 3 Black walkers, Theros had 3 Green walkers).
Four blocks. Alara had 3 red 'walkers, and Shadows over Innistrad had 3 white ones. Unless you're not counting three-color planeswalkers for some reason?
MaRo explained how they 'count' walkers for colour balance. A mono-coloured planeswalker counts 1 point. A dual-coloured planeswalker counts 0.5 to each colour. Tri-coloured planeswalkers are too 'niche' to count for colour balance purposes (and that fact is the only reason they managed to shoehorn Tamiyo into EMN)
So, yes, if you have 3 dual-coloured planeswalkers in the same block that share a colour, that is 1.5 and that is above-average (they shoot for 1 in each colour but sometimes the math works out that they get 1.5 although they usually get that with one mono and one dual). It is highly unlikely, however, to see a mono-coloured planeswalker and two dual-coloured planeswalkers (for a total of 2 points) unless the previous block had a colour deficit that they are catching up on or there is a major story reason to that they can't avoid.
This is why if Baan is mono-blue we will not see another blue planeswalker, but if hes UW or UB we might see one more blue planeswalker, but it is extremely unlikely - which was my point. If he winds up being Esper, then expect there to be 6 total planeswalkers and the tri-colour is too 'niche' to count.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
There have also been two blocks with three walkers of the same color in a set without breaking color parity (Innistrad 1 had 3 Black walkers, Theros had 3 Green walkers).
Four blocks. Alara had 3 red 'walkers, and Shadows over Innistrad had 3 white ones. Unless you're not counting three-color planeswalkers for some reason?
MaRo explained how they 'count' walkers for colour balance. A mono-coloured planeswalker counts 1 point. A dual-coloured planeswalker counts 0.5 to each colour. Tri-coloured planeswalkers are too 'niche' to count for colour balance purposes (and that fact is the only reason they managed to shoehorn Tamiyo into EMN)
So, yes, if you have 3 dual-coloured planeswalkers in the same block that share a colour, that is 1.5 and that is above-average (they shoot for 1 in each colour but sometimes the math works out that they get 1.5 although they usually get that with one mono and one dual). It is highly unlikely, however, to see a mono-coloured planeswalker and two dual-coloured planeswalkers (for a total of 2 points) unless the previous block had a colour deficit that they are catching up on or there is a major story reason to that they can't avoid.
This is why if Baan is mono-blue we will not see another blue planeswalker, but if hes UW or UB we might see one more blue planeswalker, but it is extremely unlikely - which was my point. If he winds up being Esper, then expect there to be 6 total planeswalkers and the tri-colour is too 'niche' to count.
Well Saheeli is likely Blue/Red, so I imagine Baan will be two as well.
The multiverse felt bigger. more alive and populate with people with their own problems and pursuing their own ends, yet all connected.
Many independent characters (most of them recurring ones) each with her own story and perspective on events.
Now we have the Gatewatch, with one storyline, a reduced cast of characters and only one perspective on events.
Off-topic as it is, I enjoyed reading this post for explaining the issue that I could not put in words before myself. This post is much more valuable than the usual hate.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
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I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
If Dovin Baan is the villain (and I strongly suspect he is, due to his reaction in the story when he heard Chandra's last name), then he is likely blue/black, or possibly Esper.
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It's about time for the reserved list to die, for the sake of Vintage and Legacy (And Commander).
It's certainly possible he's the villain. But he could be a White/Blue villain. It's not like the Consulate seems to be an especially Black-aligned villain as a whole, it seems pretty standard Azorius.
There's definitely a Black gap, and probably a Green one unless they go with Nissa (which is the most likely answer but could surprise us), but I don't think Dovin is going to be it. I do think it's likely to be a dual-colored one though, not Mono. We had a pretty high average of Black in Innistrad, I imagine they'll want to keep it down here.
I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
If Dovin Baan is the villain (and I strongly suspect he is, due to his reaction in the story when he heard Chandra's last name), then he is likely blue/black, or possibly Esper.
It's certainly possible he's the villain. But he could be a White/Blue villain. It's not like the Consulate seems to be an especially Black-aligned villain as a whole, it seems pretty standard Azorius.
There's definitely a Black gap, and probably a Green one unless they go with Nissa (which is the most likely answer but could surprise us), but I don't think Dovin is going to be it. I do think it's likely to be a dual-colored one though, not Mono. We had a pretty high average of Black in Innistrad, I imagine they'll want to keep it down here.
Indeed, there's no reason that Baan couldn't be the villain while still being WU.
He's an agent of an oppressive regime. He doesn't need to be selfish or ambitious (or any other black characteristic) to be the antagonist. In fact I would argue that would make him less interesting. Characters who do horrible things believing they're the right thing are far more intriguing than run of the mill power hungry asshats.
I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
actually the color combo I think that's most in need of a new walker, at least in standard and modern, is BR. That's been much longer than any other 2 color combo, but it doesn't fit Dovin at all
I would really like to see Baan in Azorius colors: we only have Venser, the Sojourner in those colors
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
actually the color combo I think that's most in need of a new walker, at least in standard and modern, is BR. That's been much longer than any other 2 color combo, but it doesn't fit Dovin at all
Yeah, I wasn't saying there weren't other colors that might be deserving of representation, but Dovin is unlikely to be anything other than a Blue-centered color combo, probably Azorius or Esper.
Not sure if things are as limiting as you suspect, or rather, dread. We have had two Gatewatch-centred stories, which happened to also be stories of multiverse-level threats. And even so, the Shadows of Innistrad block was really a Nahiri + Sorin and Jace + Tamiyo and pre-GW Liliana story much more that it was a GW story. Yes, the GW was summoned at the end but not as a Deus Ex Machina, but rather as part of the duty they imposed themselves and that no one else shared, as almost no one else knew of the Eldrazi. It would be like calling a firefighter arriving at the scene of a fire "Deus Ex machina".
For that reason, I don't think the rest of the GW will be summoned in set 2. In fact, it seems to me that Gideon and Jace are left behind as a pre-setup for a second return to Ravnica.
Lastly, I want to present the idea that the comicbook format of storytelling with the inherent flaws that you describe is not automatically bad or boring. Yes, plot armour exists or at least resurrection resort, because their customers want to keep reading stories about those characters. But even with such limitations, comicbook narrative can still tell really good stories and make their characters interesting and ever-evolving. If you personally don't like that style of storytelling, that's fine but there's no need to diss it. Many other people love it and neither them or you are wrong. Different strokes, etc.
I'm calling it right now- worst rare in the set. Even good limited players will find better bombs at common and uncommon no sweat. Worst. Episode. Ever.
I really do predict this to be our worst rare in set award winner. I'd be happier opening a jar of eyeballs, so I think anything worse is highly unlikely. This card wont just have zero constructed potential, but not be significantly better than a mass of ghouls in a draft.
OK, I hope there's a thread in the story subforum to address this, because.... what? Dovin Baan 'hires' the Gatewatch??
Technically he requests their assistance but they reject because he doesn't know if there's a planeswalker involved in the rebel movement. Chandra and Lili are going because **** the consulate and Nissa is going to be den mom.
In other words, there might not have been a planeswalker in the rebel movement, but there certainly IS one now
My prediction is that Dovin will eventually join the rebels. His talent is to detect weaknesses -- what will happen if someone manages to convince him to use that talent to examine the very organization he serves? Or if he tries to find the weakness of his whole plane?
Regardless, I predict that his abilities will prove crucial to resolving the Kaladesh problem.
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Bolas... and maybe the worse of all New Phyrexia (secretly I always wanted emrakul to wander into New phyrexia and being assimilated...)
Lorwyn probably. Sadly I suspect that the rest of the
Magic Avengerswill not be that far behind.BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Well, for an individual set:
Lorwyn introduced 5 non-native Planeswalkers.
Shards of Alara introduced 3 new Planeswalkers, 2 non-native.
Zendikar introduced 2 new walkers, 1 non-native.
Avacyn Restored (does that count as a return if we never left Innistrad?) introduced 2 new non-native walkers.
Theros introduced 2 new walkers, 1 native, 1 non-native.
So, Theros is the last time it happened, which was 2013, which was 3 years ago. But that seems disingenuous when you consider that we've only been to one new plane since then.
*sigh* I explained the reasoning in the very same post you quoted. Gideon and Jace are going to get called in on the 2nd set when the "new order of artifice" escalates the situation (much like everyone was called in when Emrakul appeared). Who is more likely to get a card, a planeswalker who is already part of the story since the first block or a planeswalker that gets called in to help deal with the emerging issue and is added to the story?
Now that said - that was posted before the Amonkhet reveal. Gideon is a better fit for Amonkhet than Nissa is. So it makes sense for Nissa to get a card in AEther revolt, Gideon and Liliana in Amonkhet block and Jace in the set after that (which I expect to be Vryn)
Tries to - but they decide that the issue is a local politics issue and not a planar catastrophe so they decline (with some disagreement on the issue). However, I suspect that the "new order of artifice" Baan mentions will escalate the situation and the Gatewatch will be called in full force. Baan isn't the type to use a phrase like that lightly.
Four blocks. Alara had 3 red 'walkers, and Shadows over Innistrad had 3 white ones. Unless you're not counting three-color planeswalkers for some reason?
It actually is a stretch. She targeted the Azorius for revenge. Because it was them specifically who wronged her. And these days, she's more power-hungry than vengeance-hungry. It's not like she has some hatred for all UW organizations, so her targeting Kaladesh's government is no more likely than her attacking any government on any plane she finds herself on. And we have no evidence that she's currently on or heading to Kaladesh.
Just because they mentioned her plot thread, doesn't mean they're going to follow up on it immediately. Remember, we had half a year between (in Dragons of Tarkir) Ugin telling Sorin to find Nahiri and (in Shadows over Innistad) Sorin actually finding her.
Tibalt was a native, so Avacyn Restored was 1 and 1[/nitpicking]
Whoops! You are correct. My mistake.
So would you imagine a visit to Kaladesh and not including Chandra? Moreover, it's most assured that not all three of them will get a card, especially not Liliana. Finally, I really don't understand the complaint. Any serialised story in books, TV, movies, comics, games, etc. almost always has a cast of returning characters. Why is it bad when Magic does it? "Damn, this stupid Superman guy keeps appearing in my Justice League comics! Lazy authors!"
MaRo explained how they 'count' walkers for colour balance. A mono-coloured planeswalker counts 1 point. A dual-coloured planeswalker counts 0.5 to each colour. Tri-coloured planeswalkers are too 'niche' to count for colour balance purposes (and that fact is the only reason they managed to shoehorn Tamiyo into EMN)
So, yes, if you have 3 dual-coloured planeswalkers in the same block that share a colour, that is 1.5 and that is above-average (they shoot for 1 in each colour but sometimes the math works out that they get 1.5 although they usually get that with one mono and one dual). It is highly unlikely, however, to see a mono-coloured planeswalker and two dual-coloured planeswalkers (for a total of 2 points) unless the previous block had a colour deficit that they are catching up on or there is a major story reason to that they can't avoid.
This is why if Baan is mono-blue we will not see another blue planeswalker, but if hes UW or UB we might see one more blue planeswalker, but it is extremely unlikely - which was my point. If he winds up being Esper, then expect there to be 6 total planeswalkers and the tri-colour is too 'niche' to count.
Well Saheeli is likely Blue/Red, so I imagine Baan will be two as well.
Off-topic as it is, I enjoyed reading this post for explaining the issue that I could not put in words before myself. This post is much more valuable than the usual hate.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
Factions: Sleeping
Remnants: Valheim
Legendary Journey: Heroes & Planeswalkers
Saga: Shards of Rabiah
Legends: The Elder Dragons
Read up on Red Flags & NWO
Narset Transcendent
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Narset Transcendent
Not only is she in those colours she's still in Standard (if only for another month). When was the last time we saw an UB planeswalker?... wait don't answer that I'll look it up. Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver in Theros. UB is 'more due' than UW is.
I agree that we are due for another Blue/Black Planeswalker, but at the same time I don't really get any Black feeling from Baan. He feels very White/Blue to me if we are assigning him a second color, though mono-Blue is fine too.
If Dovin Baan is the villain (and I strongly suspect he is, due to his reaction in the story when he heard Chandra's last name), then he is likely blue/black, or possibly Esper.
---
Numquam evolutioni obstes. Solum conculceris.
Pascite draconem, evolvite aut morimini.
There's definitely a Black gap, and probably a Green one unless they go with Nissa (which is the most likely answer but could surprise us), but I don't think Dovin is going to be it. I do think it's likely to be a dual-colored one though, not Mono. We had a pretty high average of Black in Innistrad, I imagine they'll want to keep it down here.
Indeed, there's no reason that Baan couldn't be the villain while still being WU.
He's an agent of an oppressive regime. He doesn't need to be selfish or ambitious (or any other black characteristic) to be the antagonist. In fact I would argue that would make him less interesting. Characters who do horrible things believing they're the right thing are far more intriguing than run of the mill power hungry asshats.
actually the color combo I think that's most in need of a new walker, at least in standard and modern, is BR. That's been much longer than any other 2 color combo, but it doesn't fit Dovin at all
Yeah, I wasn't saying there weren't other colors that might be deserving of representation, but Dovin is unlikely to be anything other than a Blue-centered color combo, probably Azorius or Esper.
For that reason, I don't think the rest of the GW will be summoned in set 2. In fact, it seems to me that Gideon and Jace are left behind as a pre-setup for a second return to Ravnica.
Lastly, I want to present the idea that the comicbook format of storytelling with the inherent flaws that you describe is not automatically bad or boring. Yes, plot armour exists or at least resurrection resort, because their customers want to keep reading stories about those characters. But even with such limitations, comicbook narrative can still tell really good stories and make their characters interesting and ever-evolving. If you personally don't like that style of storytelling, that's fine but there's no need to diss it. Many other people love it and neither them or you are wrong. Different strokes, etc.
In other words, there might not have been a planeswalker in the rebel movement, but there certainly IS one now
My prediction is that Dovin will eventually join the rebels. His talent is to detect weaknesses -- what will happen if someone manages to convince him to use that talent to examine the very organization he serves? Or if he tries to find the weakness of his whole plane?
Regardless, I predict that his abilities will prove crucial to resolving the Kaladesh problem.