This just doesn't seem worth it. In exchange for no instants and sorceries you get to be one mana ahead? And even then only for one spell a turn.
Not sure I agree. Imagine in a limited game being able to cast a 2 drop on turn 1, a 3 drop on turn 2, and a 4 drop on turn 3. I can see this getting pretty broken in the right type of decks. I agree with the poster that you want to get this P1P1 so that you can build your deck around it since it would have to be full of low-mid drops to make it worthwhile, but the payoff is huge.
The gap between the power of the two mythic conspiracies is monumental. This one is so much worse than Sovreign Realm. A one mana discount on one creature per turn is not worth not being able to play instants and sorceries.
You're starting the game with a colourless mox in play, how can that not be a momumental advantage ?
You'd of course have to prioritise flash creatures as combat tricks, but that's managable. Combine this with the amount of creatures that make you the monarch and the numbers advantage you'll have with this to keep being the monarch, card advantage shouldn't be a problem either.
But then again , the most intresting cards are most often the most polarising ones. Maybe it's crap, maybe its bonkers. Playing will tell.
Quick edit and final tought : artifacts and enchantments are still fair game, so you'd still be able to play any pacifism or narcolapsy or banishing light, or whatever the enchantment based removal is in this set.
Considering we haven't seen any creatures with flash or artifact/enchantment based removal I'm leaning towards this wanting you to be as green as green gets. Play big dumb guy after big dumb guy and hope the rest of the table isn't packinging removal, or worse Desertion, for your big dumb guy.
Don't forget, this is a multiplayer format, 1 for 1 removal isn't as good as it would be in 1v1. Board position is a great deterrent for opportunistic attacks. Also, don't forget, for every removal spell they have , you're playing a creature instead. There are no wrong threats only wrong answers.
I also believe that we'll get at least one enchantment based removal spell, as they have printed at least 1 in every set in recent years. These are usually not seperately spoiled as these are the bread and butter of a set, just like the commons and uncommons thrown on the pile in the last 2 days of previews.
Let's not forget that this is draft though. Unlike with Sovreign Realm where you get to draft and play the best card in every pack you're going to be playing some serious non-threats. They don't need to have all the right answers just the answers to the most important questions. And there are three people at the table now. Oh and of note the only board wipe we've seen is a mythic so the point about single target removal being weak is moot. Don't get me wrong. The mana reduction is a decent effect but for the cost of my instants and sorceries I want that effect to work on all my dudes.
Edit: Okay, correction, there's Hallowed Burial but still it's a rare so the likelihood is that you'll see maybe one in the entire draft. If someone is lucky you might see Burial and Seismic Tremors.
Don't forget that with sovereign realm you have to play all but two of the cards you draft. A draft only contains 42 picks, and you still have to have a legal deck of 40 cards. So the sovereign deck will be playing all of the 10-14th picks too. And it starts 2 cards down.
Aside from automatically ramping you, it also allows a greater threat density by letting you play sligtly less lands then you would have otherwise.
And I believe the lack of sweepers actually makes the 1v1 removal more valuable, and as such will only be spent on the bombs, not some medium-sized creature.
Yeah but all the bad cards that can't use for good just have a better form of landcycling with Sovreign Realm. But your bad creatures? Just bad creatures. They're just dead weight. Like I said. It's a valuable effect I just don't think it's good enough to warrant giving up instants and sorceries. Especially considering how strong so many of them are.
Yeah but all the bad cards that can't use for good just have a better form of landcycling with Sovreign Realm. But your bad creatures? Just bad creatures. They're just dead weight. Like I said. It's a valuable effect I just don't think it's good enough to warrant giving up instants and sorceries. Especially considering how strong so many of them are.
Bad creatures that cost 1 less often become good creatures (or at least decent). Sovereign realm is almost certainly more powerful P1P1, but I do think this card is nuts.
Don't forget that with sovereign realm you have to play all but two of the cards you draft. A draft only contains 42 picks, and you still have to have a legal deck of 40 cards. So the sovereign deck will be playing all of the 10-14th picks too. And it starts 2 cards down.
Aside from automatically ramping you, it also allows a greater threat density by letting you play sligtly less lands then you would have otherwise.
And I believe the lack of sweepers actually makes the 1v1 removal more valuable, and as such will only be spent on the bombs, not some medium-sized creature.
45 picks, because there are no basic lands in the packs (it's where the draft matters cards go), but that only slightly changes your point.
This conspiracy is not for me, I prefer utility and adaptiveness (yes brute force is also helpful), Instants and Sorceries add more to the gameplay I would not be willing to give up for the equivalent of a mox. The old arguement of play creature, doom blade it comes to mind.
Don't forget that with sovereign realm you have to play all but two of the cards you draft. A draft only contains 42 picks, and you still have to have a legal deck of 40 cards. So the sovereign deck will be playing all of the 10-14th picks too. And it starts 2 cards down.
Aside from automatically ramping you, it also allows a greater threat density by letting you play sligtly less lands then you would have otherwise.
And I believe the lack of sweepers actually makes the 1v1 removal more valuable, and as such will only be spent on the bombs, not some medium-sized creature.
45 picks, because there are no basic lands in the packs (it's where the draft matters cards go), but that only slightly changes your point.
Well, 44 picks, since one of them was Sovereign Realm. Minus any other conspiracies you drafted or any "draft matters" cards that remove cards from your pool.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
For multiplayer draft, this card looks awful. Starting out faster than everyone else in a multiplayer game is usually just a good way to end up facing down the table until you lose that advantage, and once you get to the late game when this is worthless, everyone else has powerful removal and you don't. Unless there are lots of creature-based tricks, letting everyone know you have nothing tricky is a huge liability in multiplayer. If I have a big fatty I want to swing at someone, I'd a lot more likely to pick the person who I know isn't going to be able to kill it before it hits, or catch me with a combat trick. Unless you think you've got the kind of deck that can rapidly take down an opponent or two early with the mana advantage, I don't think this is worth it at all.
Mind you - in 1v1 draft this card would be incredible. Having instants is a lot more important in multiplayer, where you have to be a lot more judicious about what you respond to. Just walling up creatures to protect yourself is reasonable-ish, but this doesn't make this all that much easier imo. Maybe you can make some great monarch deck where you're always drawing extra cards and you can maintain an advantage, but again, I don't see that holding up against the table. What really counts in most multiplayer games is the ability to either put a lot of attrition against the table at once and kill them before they can stabilize, or to have enough control that you can keep yourself at an advantage while you slug it out with lesser threats, and this doesn't help with either of those things in a significant enough way - lots of the big bombs and most of the control is in instants and sorceries. Gradual board value is hard to get a win from in multiplayer, and that's where most creatures in draft are.
Don't evaluate this card like you're playing 1v1. It's great 1v1. Multiplayer is different.
Super agreed. Although some players don't play to win and to win only. Some also play for flavor or for having fun.
Would you, if you're not drafting a multiplayer format, draft this in a normal cube 1v1? I'm asking because I'm curious if the downside is also too severe in a normal drafting cube.
Sure, I mean if I see it P1P1 I might consider trying it out. I'm pretty sure it's bad though.
In a cube, depends too much on what's in it. I've certainly drafted lots of cube decks where this sort of thing would be really powerful, though - maybe too powerful. it's hard to balance effects that don't cost a card and are present in every game.
Hymn of the Wilds
Conspiracy
(Start the game with this conspiracy face up in the command zone.)
The first creature spell you cast each turn costs 1 less to cast.
You can't cast instant or sorcery spells.
Many attempt to speak with nature. Selvala speaks less, and nature answers more.
Sorry people. Up early on Fridays for work. I guess this is why Expropriate and Subwoofer Tremors cost a lot to cast.
Cubetutor Peasant'ish-Funbox
Project: Khans of Tarkir Cube (cubetutor)
BRGKresh the BloodbraidedBRG, A box of lands and ideas.
Modern:
RG Titanshift. A deck made of cards too stupid for EDH.
Retired: Lots. More than I feel you should suffer through or I should type out.
Not sure I agree. Imagine in a limited game being able to cast a 2 drop on turn 1, a 3 drop on turn 2, and a 4 drop on turn 3. I can see this getting pretty broken in the right type of decks. I agree with the poster that you want to get this P1P1 so that you can build your deck around it since it would have to be full of low-mid drops to make it worthwhile, but the payoff is huge.
more than 50 cards in the set until now and finally we got one I'll probably never pick in a draft... lol
Considering we haven't seen any creatures with flash or artifact/enchantment based removal I'm leaning towards this wanting you to be as green as green gets. Play big dumb guy after big dumb guy and hope the rest of the table isn't packinging removal, or worse Desertion, for your big dumb guy.
Let's not forget that this is draft though. Unlike with Sovreign Realm where you get to draft and play the best card in every pack you're going to be playing some serious non-threats. They don't need to have all the right answers just the answers to the most important questions. And there are three people at the table now. Oh and of note the only board wipe we've seen is a mythic so the point about single target removal being weak is moot. Don't get me wrong. The mana reduction is a decent effect but for the cost of my instants and sorceries I want that effect to work on all my dudes.
Edit: Okay, correction, there's Hallowed Burial but still it's a rare so the likelihood is that you'll see maybe one in the entire draft. If someone is lucky you might see Burial and Seismic Tremors.
Yeah but all the bad cards that can't use for good just have a better form of landcycling with Sovreign Realm. But your bad creatures? Just bad creatures. They're just dead weight. Like I said. It's a valuable effect I just don't think it's good enough to warrant giving up instants and sorceries. Especially considering how strong so many of them are.
Bad creatures that cost 1 less often become good creatures (or at least decent). Sovereign realm is almost certainly more powerful P1P1, but I do think this card is nuts.
45 picks, because there are no basic lands in the packs (it's where the draft matters cards go), but that only slightly changes your point.
Well, 44 picks, since one of them was Sovereign Realm. Minus any other conspiracies you drafted or any "draft matters" cards that remove cards from your pool.
Feel free to tell me yours!
It should have just taxed instants and sorceries by 1,
or it should reduce costs by more than just 1 once per turn.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Mind you - in 1v1 draft this card would be incredible. Having instants is a lot more important in multiplayer, where you have to be a lot more judicious about what you respond to. Just walling up creatures to protect yourself is reasonable-ish, but this doesn't make this all that much easier imo. Maybe you can make some great monarch deck where you're always drawing extra cards and you can maintain an advantage, but again, I don't see that holding up against the table. What really counts in most multiplayer games is the ability to either put a lot of attrition against the table at once and kill them before they can stabilize, or to have enough control that you can keep yourself at an advantage while you slug it out with lesser threats, and this doesn't help with either of those things in a significant enough way - lots of the big bombs and most of the control is in instants and sorceries. Gradual board value is hard to get a win from in multiplayer, and that's where most creatures in draft are.
Don't evaluate this card like you're playing 1v1. It's great 1v1. Multiplayer is different.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
In a cube, depends too much on what's in it. I've certainly drafted lots of cube decks where this sort of thing would be really powerful, though - maybe too powerful. it's hard to balance effects that don't cost a card and are present in every game.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6