Not to be that guy but how is Grenzo's second effect... red? This seems something that blue or black does. Nightveil Specter, Stolen Goods... hell it required two colors for an effect on just one dude Daxos of Meletis. Now red gets it en masses? Gets dumber with double strike and extra combat steps.
It is a really cool card but this effect in red of stealing other peoples stuff from their library is pretty unheard of.
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To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
Man I know it's 7 but I want to play that dragon in legacy. 7 mana 5/5 flier who draws you a card at the end of each turn and gives you a 5/5 flier every turn o_O
Oh, Grenzo-
I love you, baby,
but I *really* did not want to see you responsible
for red stealing yet another blue trick,
this time one of my very favorite blue tricks, at that
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
They are just stealing it from opponents this time, it is actually super super red.
It's literally exactly the same ability as Daxos of Meletis minus the lifegain (ie- the W part).
If we're going by what flavor justifies,
then I guess it's okay for U to do everything again?
Why can't both Blue and Red do it? Red's been getting cast exiled cards from the top of your library for a bit, and has Mindclaw Shaman off the top of my head for casting opponents spells.
Oh, Grenzo-
I love you, baby,
but I *really* did not want to see you responsible
for red stealing yet another blue trick,
this time one of my very favorite blue tricks, at that
I'm not trying to be funny here, or disrespectful, but what tricks did red steal from blue? I honestly don't know, not being argumentative. Red recently has had all of its strengths completely gutted and replaced with terrible forms of ramp to try and put out massive overcosted creatures. I see where red has been given greens tricks, but I'm missing the blue part. maybe stensia innkeeper getting a freeze effect?
I'm not trying to be funny here, or disrespectful, but what tricks did red steal from blue? I honestly don't know, not being argumentative. Red recently has had all of its strengths completely gutted and replaced with terrible forms of ramp to try and put out massive overcosted creatures. I see where red has been given greens tricks, but I'm missing the blue part. maybe stensia innkeeper getting a freeze effect?
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll have to keep saying it:
I don't mind WotC expanding red's share of the color pie,
but at this point, I would love to see that progress come at the expense of any color that isn't blue.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm not trying to be funny here, or disrespectful, but what tricks did red steal from blue? I honestly don't know, not being argumentative. Red recently has had all of its strengths completely gutted and replaced with terrible forms of ramp to try and put out massive overcosted creatures. I see where red has been given greens tricks, but I'm missing the blue part. maybe stensia innkeeper getting a freeze effect?
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll have to keep saying it:
I don't mind WotC expanding red's share of the color pie,
but at this point, I would love to see that progress come at the expense of any color that isn't blue.
Blue has way too many tools. Blue needs to learn to share
Blue has way too many tools. Blue needs to learn to share
Blue has been sharing for quite some time now. That's my whole complaint.
Many of the effects on that list are no longer in blue,
and the effects that are still in blue are rarely used nowadays.
I get the complaint that red needs a bigger slice of the color pie,
but they should fix that in a more elegant way than "hey, let's give half of blue's stuff to red,"
or blue will have the same problem red currently does.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Blue has way too many tools. Blue needs to learn to share
Blue has been sharing for quite some time now. That's my whole complaint.
Many of the effects on that list are no longer in blue,
and the effects that are still in blue are rarely used nowadays.
I get the complaint that red needs a bigger slice of the color pie,
but they should fix that in a more elegant way than "hey, let's give half of blue's stuff to red,"
or blue will have the same problem red currently does.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I do have a question about Grenzo...
Goad says your opponent has to attack each turn if able and the player whose creature you goaded can only attack your opponenets if able. What happens 1v1? Are they just screwed from attacking?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"The essence of every world, every spell and every thought is power. Nothing else matters, because nothing else exists."
Red's color pie needs attention, there's no question about it. It is the weakest in terms of diversity. Fast mana made sense. The things of specificity to previous blue all made sense. Shunt and Ray of Command made sense. The impulsive draw and reverse looting make sense. But more is needed. Something NEW, maybe. Vastly new. Or maybe old. Maybe burn through resources to untap permanents is one. The flavor of manipulation and doing all kinds of non-mindless strung-together things is not out of place if it has its own stamp of fast and wasteful redness. Messing with things without destroying them as a parallel to that. Polymorph. Has small presence already, but maybe non-random polymorph. Maybe the mechanics of Time Spiral, without the evergreen reductive presence of the time counters. In fact, this is by enough in a large picture orientation of its overall lack that solving it by three more equal and repeatable things of interest is fundamental to all of the other relationships.
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"Warning: Um, warning. This is going to be a game state violation. And a taking extra turns and drawing extra cards violation, pretty much, a whole bunch of violations. Look at me, I'm the DCI."
I'm not trying to be funny here, or disrespectful, but what tricks did red steal from blue? I honestly don't know, not being argumentative. Red recently has had all of its strengths completely gutted and replaced with terrible forms of ramp to try and put out massive overcosted creatures. I see where red has been given greens tricks, but I'm missing the blue part. maybe stensia innkeeper getting a freeze effect?
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll have to keep saying it:
I don't mind WotC expanding red's share of the color pie,
but at this point, I would love to see that progress come at the expense of any color that isn't blue.
Thank you for responding to that in a mature way; most would just attack me as being either 'stupid' or 'condescending'. I definitely see your point, but red has shared abilities that other colors have, just in a more reckless way. All of your examples fit blue, so I wont add to that, but as I mentioned before mana ramp or cost reduction abilities associated with attacking is reckless green, or sacking creatures to kill other creatures (albeit through damage) is reckless black, enchanting creatures to boost P/T and combat effects are in common with white, but tend to be geared toward pushing damage through and letting your creature die. So red does a lot of things other colors can do, just worse. what its good at, or should be the best at, is direct damage spells and speedy creatures, and it has trouble even doing that anymore. I definitely understand your complaint though. as a red player I am sick of seeing white get to take the strongest part of the red pie in fast powerful, yet weak defensively creatures, and of course cheap removal to keep you in the game. I agree that blue is sitting in limbo right now, struggling for an identity, but then again so is red.
I do have a question about Grenzo...
Goad says your opponent has to attack each turn if able and the player whose creature you goaded can only attack your opponenets if able. What happens 1v1? Are they just screwed from attacking?
No, they just have to attack you or a planeswalker you control, It fulfills the most requirements.
If the creature can't attack a player other than you, then it must attack you or a planeswalker if it can. This is most likely when the game is down to two players. And keep in mind that a goaded creature remains goaded until your next turn. So if another player gains control of it before then, it attacks under the same conditions if able.
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It is a really cool card but this effect in red of stealing other peoples stuff from their library is pretty unheard of.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
They are just stealing it from opponents this time, it is actually super super red.
And you can cast their stuff and your mountains will turn rainbow for those spells.
I love you, baby,
but I *really* did not want to see you responsible
for red stealing yet another blue trick,
this time one of my very favorite blue tricks, at that
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
It's literally exactly the same ability as Daxos of Meletis minus the lifegain (ie- the W part).
If we're going by what flavor justifies,
then I guess it's okay for U to do everything again?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Why can't both Blue and Red do it? Red's been getting cast exiled cards from the top of your library for a bit, and has Mindclaw Shaman off the top of my head for casting opponents spells.
I'm not trying to be funny here, or disrespectful, but what tricks did red steal from blue? I honestly don't know, not being argumentative. Red recently has had all of its strengths completely gutted and replaced with terrible forms of ramp to try and put out massive overcosted creatures. I see where red has been given greens tricks, but I'm missing the blue part. maybe stensia innkeeper getting a freeze effect?
That's one of the more recent examples, but there are many, many other abilities red has "borrowed" from blue:
Siren's Call effects
Ray of Command
Final Fortune
Shunt
Morphling P/T switching
Char (admittedly, this feels red enough to not really bother me, but it is a valid example)
Faithless Looting
Mindclaw Shaman
Volcanic Vision (the damage part is red, but the return clause had previously only been on blue cards)
Mizzix's Mastery
and as of Volatile Chimera, red can also now clone things on a non-temporary basis
I've said it before and I'm sure I'll have to keep saying it:
I don't mind WotC expanding red's share of the color pie,
but at this point, I would love to see that progress come at the expense of any color that isn't blue.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Blue has way too many tools. Blue needs to learn to share
Blue has been sharing for quite some time now. That's my whole complaint.
Many of the effects on that list are no longer in blue,
and the effects that are still in blue are rarely used nowadays.
I get the complaint that red needs a bigger slice of the color pie,
but they should fix that in a more elegant way than "hey, let's give half of blue's stuff to red,"
or blue will have the same problem red currently does.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Blue still have plenty of tools left
Maybe I'm mistaken,
but Skyline Despot, Custodi Lich, Entourage of Trest, Protector of the Crown, and Keeper of Keys
look like a cycle of cards which make you the monarch and help you stay the monarch.
However, why is Entourage common, and why does Keeper work the reverse of the way it seems like it should?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Goad says your opponent has to attack each turn if able and the player whose creature you goaded can only attack your opponenets if able. What happens 1v1? Are they just screwed from attacking?
Thank you for responding to that in a mature way; most would just attack me as being either 'stupid' or 'condescending'. I definitely see your point, but red has shared abilities that other colors have, just in a more reckless way. All of your examples fit blue, so I wont add to that, but as I mentioned before mana ramp or cost reduction abilities associated with attacking is reckless green, or sacking creatures to kill other creatures (albeit through damage) is reckless black, enchanting creatures to boost P/T and combat effects are in common with white, but tend to be geared toward pushing damage through and letting your creature die. So red does a lot of things other colors can do, just worse. what its good at, or should be the best at, is direct damage spells and speedy creatures, and it has trouble even doing that anymore. I definitely understand your complaint though. as a red player I am sick of seeing white get to take the strongest part of the red pie in fast powerful, yet weak defensively creatures, and of course cheap removal to keep you in the game. I agree that blue is sitting in limbo right now, struggling for an identity, but then again so is red.
On goad. Am I asking for too much if I want to see something like...
Wrath of Goad 2RR
Sorcery
Goad all creatures.
No, they just have to attack you or a planeswalker you control, It fulfills the most requirements.
Also, from http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/feature/conspiracy-take-crown-mechanics-2016-08-15 _
If the creature can't attack a player other than you, then it must attack you or a planeswalker if it can. This is most likely when the game is down to two players. And keep in mind that a goaded creature remains goaded until your next turn. So if another player gains control of it before then, it attacks under the same conditions if able.
Did I write something useful? Leave a like.
Any new cool Daretti cards printed in the latest set? Tell me about it!
Rules Advisor