Adriana is decent in a token-based RW commander deck. If there's 4 players, she can give +3/+3 to all your guys when they attack. While RW certainly has other ways to pump the whole team like that, there aren't that many that can also be your commander.
Oh god this is exactly what ive been looking for in a boros commander. None of them have had a combat focus before and ive really been holding out. This one is finally the novel concept ive been hoping for!
...seriously what the **** is it going to take to get the person designing this ***** to do something different?
A Boros legendary that can only do stuff inside of combat?? My GOD, HOW INNOVATIVE! I'm glad to see Wizards keeps pushing the barriers of design space, always trying new things... it is really refreshing.
/endsarcasm
What baffles me even more is the way they seem to go out of their way to print this *****.
There has literally *never been* a GU Legendary that wasn't part of a cycle of at least five Legendaries,
but damn if they don't create random RW and BG Legendaries with reckless abandon.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
A Boros legendary that can only do stuff inside of combat?? My GOD, HOW INNOVATIVE! I'm glad to see Wizards keeps pushing the barriers of design space, always trying new things... it is really refreshing.
/endsarcasm
What baffles me even more is the way they seem to go out of their way to print this *****.
There has literally *never been* a GU Legendary that wasn't part of a cycle of at least five Legendaries,
but damn if they don't create random RW and BG Legendaries with reckless abandon.
The tokens placed into play attacking wouldn't trigger their own melee. They'll buff the original creatures that have melee if you place their melee triggers on the stack last.
So, Adriana in play....
1. stuff attacks
2. myriad/melee triggers go on stack
3. myriad resolves putting creatures into play attacking
4. melee triggers resolve, giving the myriad creature and anything else that originally attacked their bonus
If it was a static ability it would work. Say if it read like 'melee = this creature gets +1/+1 for each opponent you are attacking'.
A Boros legendary that can only do stuff inside of combat?? My GOD, HOW INNOVATIVE! I'm glad to see Wizards keeps pushing the barriers of design space, always trying new things... it is really refreshing.
/endsarcasm
What baffles me even more is the way they seem to go out of their way to print this *****.
There has literally *never been* a GU Legendary that wasn't part of a cycle of at least five Legendaries,
but damn if they don't create random RW and BG Legendaries with reckless abandon.
I'm not sure the 14 (not counting off color activation creatures like Spiderlegend) Legends we have in BG is really a huge count, it's on par with all the enemy colors that aren't BlueGreen.
Blue Green's issue is, mostly, that they haven't found a color identity for them that is fair and balanced. WB: Keyword - Lifelink, Mechanics - Bleeder mechanics, siphon mechanics, slow and purposeful control UR: Keyword - Prowess, Mechanics - Instant/Sorcery matters, Artifacts matter BG: Keyword - Regenerate, Mechanics - Graveyard matters, Dredge Decks are Broken RW: Keywords- First Strike, Double Strike, Mechanics - Equipment Matters, Weenie Rush, Alpha Strikes, Punching Faces
There are some overall easy to play together concepts at work there. GB is in the lead at 14 (probably the most color by numbers of them because thanks Dredge deks), RW is second at 13, WB has 11, and UR 10.
The issue with GU (and why it sits at 8) is the things it has in common, Flash is... mostly fine. (Provided it isn't Prophet.) Hexproof gets dumb without qualifiers to it. Especially given what else Green Blue has in common: Big things. Green Blue is the color of big smashy sea and land dwelling beasts. Things that get bigger, things that hit hard. Making a legendary big smashy monster is fine, but it'd be a huge ramp deck. Which if it casts with flash, or comes out untouchable to removoal? Would either be too big to play, or too effective not to play. Which is a problem.
GU's problem is being fairly undesigned space, and RW's problem is that it's almost too well designed with its shared keyword being 'hit things in the face.'
Edit: I can already guess what the RW Draft Uncommon is probably going to look like. A Soldier (most likely human) with Melee, Double Strike, and Power between -1 to 1, Toughness between 2 to 3.
If I understand Melee correctly, it has some fun interaction with Myriad. In a 4-player game with Adriana out, one swing with a single Warchief Giant sends an 8/6 at each opponent and allows you to keep extra creatures back on Defense.
that's actually really sweet. Never thought of that interaction
Doesn't really work that well because myriad creates attacking tokens -- they are not declared as attackers, so their melee never triggers. But if you stack the triggers correctly so myriad resolves first, melee on the original Warchief Giant will give it bonus for all opponents.
Nope. The Myriad tokens are not declared attacking, so you did not attack your opponents with them, so they don't count towards Melee. Melee and Myriad are a complete nonbo.
Depends on how the actual comp rules are worded. Reminder text isn't exactly the best to go on.
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Check out the thread for my cube if you have the time, and tell me how terrible it is.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Why does Boros colors always have to be about combat? Back in the original Ravnica, there were a damage/life gain theme and spell casting theme, yet Wizards never explore it again in legends.
Warleader's Helix says "Hi" from the second Ravnica Block. Boros is about aggro beats and combat.
Gonna quote myself, "yet Wizards never explore it again in LEGENDS." I was referring to majority of Boros legendary creatures being combat oriented, even when this color combo has other sects of spells, life, and control beyond combat. Examples: Searing Meditation, Balefire Liege, Blaze Commando, Brion Stoutarm (one of the few that's not entirely combat), Moonhold, Powerstone Minefield (can be defensive in nature), Boros Reckoner, etc.
Why does Boros colors always have to be about combat? Back in the original Ravnica, there were a damage/life gain theme and spell casting theme, yet Wizards never explore it again in legends.
Warleader's Helix says "Hi" from the second Ravnica Block. Boros is about aggro beats and combat.
Gonna quote myself, "yet Wizards never explore it again in LEGENDS." I was referring to majority of Boros legendary creatures being combat oriented, even when this color combo has other sects of spells, life, and control beyond combat. Examples: Searing Meditation, Balefire Liege, Blaze Commando, Brion Stoutarm (one of the few that's not entirely combat), Moonhold, Powerstone Minefield (can be defensive in nature), Boros Reckoner, etc.
The problem is that those themes are better represented in other pairs, while red/white is the best at combat. I'd like to see RW get a dedicated Equipment theme, but that will require a set with a larger-than-usual number of artifacts or artifact tokens.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Gonna quote myself, "yet Wizards never explore it again in LEGENDS." I was referring to majority of Boros legendary creatures being combat oriented, even when this color combo has other sects of spells, life, and control beyond combat. Examples: Searing Meditation, Balefire Liege, Blaze Commando, Brion Stoutarm (one of the few that's not entirely combat), Moonhold, Powerstone Minefield (can be defensive in nature), Boros Reckoner, etc.
The problem is that those themes are better represented in other pairs, while red/white is the best at combat. I'd like to see RW get a dedicated Equipment theme, but that will require a set with a larger-than-usual number of artifacts or artifact tokens.
I'd argue that those themes aren't necessarily better represented in other colors, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they cannot go into this combo. Talrand, Sky Summoner and Meloku the Clouded mirror for two are token generators but still manage to stay within blue, even if other colors are traditionally better at doing it. It CAN be done.
And, quoting Kassow-Rossing, Warleader's Helix isn't that long ago, alongside equally recent Deflecting Palm, Boros has a theme of damage manipulation outside of combat since Invasion block (2000), it can be explored within legendary creatures. My thoughts, of course, is aiming mainly at EDH play, I'm sure with a draft-focused set like Conspiracy Wizards have their concern about balance and drafting in mind.
I'd argue that those themes aren't necessarily better represented in other colors, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they cannot go into this combo. Talrand, Sky Summoner and Meloku the Clouded mirror for two are token generators but still manage to stay within blue, even if other colors are traditionally better at doing it. It CAN be done.
And, quoting Kassow-Rossing, Warleader's Helix isn't that long ago, alongside equally recent Deflecting Palm, Boros has a theme of damage manipulation outside of combat since Invasion block (2000), it can be explored within legendary creatures. My thoughts, of course, is aiming mainly at EDH play, I'm sure with a draft-focused set like Conspiracy Wizards have their concern about balance and drafting in mind.
I imagine a part of the issue is this is a small supplemental set, meaning they need to be a little more... on point, in their color combos, to whatever the color is doing here.
Now, I am a little surprised they didn't try to make RW continue its Defender Matters concept from Cons1. She's Captain of the Guard after all, and there's room to play there to make that work. Making not attacking a resource, of some kind.
But as they needed a Melee Matters card, she was the call since she's calling the Queen out.
Gonna quote myself, "yet Wizards never explore it again in LEGENDS." I was referring to majority of Boros legendary creatures being combat oriented, even when this color combo has other sects of spells, life, and control beyond combat. Examples: Searing Meditation, Balefire Liege, Blaze Commando, Brion Stoutarm (one of the few that's not entirely combat), Moonhold, Powerstone Minefield (can be defensive in nature), Boros Reckoner, etc.
The problem is that those themes are better represented in other pairs, while red/white is the best at combat. I'd like to see RW get a dedicated Equipment theme, but that will require a set with a larger-than-usual number of artifacts or artifact tokens.
I'd argue that those themes aren't necessarily better represented in other colors, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they cannot go into this combo. Talrand, Sky Summoner and Meloku the Clouded mirror for two are token generators but still manage to stay within blue, even if other colors are traditionally better at doing it. It CAN be done.
And, quoting Kassow-Rossing, Warleader's Helix isn't that long ago, alongside equally recent Deflecting Palm, Boros has a theme of damage manipulation outside of combat since Invasion block (2000), it can be explored within legendary creatures. My thoughts, of course, is aiming mainly at EDH play, I'm sure with a draft-focused set like Conspiracy Wizards have their concern about balance and drafting in mind.
Spells are most covered by UR, Life by GW or WB, and control outside of combat by WUB. Just because blue gets a few notable token makers doesn't mean it's going to be a top pick for a token theme, unless those tokens are artifacts and/or copies.
Warleader's Helix and its progenitor were examples of one-off multicolor cards that combined two symmetric effects together, generally only practical in a multicolor heavy set. True, RW does also overlap on damage redirection and retaliation, but those are reactive themes and frankly not as diverse as creature-centric aggro.
But I will acknowledge that RW could use Legends with themes beyond "Attack! Attack! Attack!"
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Why does Boros colors always have to be about combat? Back in the original Ravnica, there were a damage/life gain theme and spell casting theme, yet Wizards never explore it again in legends.
Radiance was by far the least liked original RAV mechanic and is considered utter failure. Maybe that is why.
And damage/lifegain is basically RW evergreen. They just wanted her to represent the might of the people.
That said, yes, she is boring and a disappointment for me as well.
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():
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100% Vorthos Spike and Storyline Expert
Former Fact Prospector of the Greek Alliance.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Nope. The Myriad tokens are not declared attacking, so you did not attack your opponents with them, so they don't count towards Melee. Melee and Myriad are a complete nonbo.
Had no idea you meant legendary creature cards. Your post literally makes no sense.
1. "Why does Boros always have to be about combat?"
Because that is what Boros do. It's their theme. Strength in numbers and combat matters. It's like asking why is blue about drawing cards and countering spells.
Combat is Boros's MAIN theme, but they do have other sub-themes that identifies them more than just stick-and-harsh-language combo, evident by the cards you and I both posted. I am not against Boros having good portion of its cards as combat oriented, I was merely commenting on how their recent legends haven't gone beyond the rawr-combat shell, while they have potential to be more.
2. "Back in the old Ravnica, there were a damage/life gain theme and spell casting theme"
I have now showed you Boros still has the deal-damage-and-gain-life-theme in Warleader's Helix.
I didn't miss that, but again I must remind you that my post was mainly about their legendary creatures, which was clearly stated in my first post.
3. "Yet Wizards never explore it again in legends."
I have now learned you meant legendary creatures. So you are thinking back in the old Ravnica block there was a damage/life gain theme to the legendary creatures in Boros? There's not. Back then and now they were and are still about combat. Hasn't changed.
No, you misunderstood me. I was saying that back in old Ravnica, Apocalypse, Lorwyn/Shadowmoon, etc, there were more to Boros than combat, evident by the cards I listed. Combat can be Boros's main theme, but they are capable of more than that. My original post was merely pointing that out, suggesting that Boros legends CAN be more than just combat as well.
EDIT: I should share more examples. Mardu as we know from Tarkir sets up a very offensive theme for its cards, but there are also exceptions in that color combination, such as Tariel, Reckoner of Souls and Queen Marchesa that's not entirely an attacker, even though they could be. Occasionally cards can go beyond their popular genre and aim for something that's beyond the norm but still within its color flavor.
EDIT 2: Before legendary creatures are called that, they were simply called "Legend". I'm old school so at times I use both terms, for that I apologize for the confusion.
...seriously what the **** is it going to take to get the person designing this ***** to do something different?
What baffles me even more is the way they seem to go out of their way to print this *****.
There has literally *never been* a GU Legendary that wasn't part of a cycle of at least five Legendaries,
but damn if they don't create random RW and BG Legendaries with reckless abandon.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Are any of the other 2 color combinations feeling similar in their design decisions?
I've noticed this trend too.
So, Adriana in play....
1. stuff attacks
2. myriad/melee triggers go on stack
3. myriad resolves putting creatures into play attacking
4. melee triggers resolve, giving the myriad creature and anything else that originally attacked their bonus
If it was a static ability it would work. Say if it read like 'melee = this creature gets +1/+1 for each opponent you are attacking'.
Blue Green's issue is, mostly, that they haven't found a color identity for them that is fair and balanced.
WB: Keyword - Lifelink, Mechanics - Bleeder mechanics, siphon mechanics, slow and purposeful control
UR: Keyword - Prowess, Mechanics - Instant/Sorcery matters, Artifacts matter
BG: Keyword - Regenerate, Mechanics - Graveyard matters, Dredge Decks are Broken
RW: Keywords- First Strike, Double Strike, Mechanics - Equipment Matters, Weenie Rush, Alpha Strikes, Punching Faces
There are some overall easy to play together concepts at work there. GB is in the lead at 14 (probably the most color by numbers of them because thanks Dredge deks), RW is second at 13, WB has 11, and UR 10.
The issue with GU (and why it sits at 8) is the things it has in common, Flash is... mostly fine. (Provided it isn't Prophet.) Hexproof gets dumb without qualifiers to it. Especially given what else Green Blue has in common: Big things. Green Blue is the color of big smashy sea and land dwelling beasts. Things that get bigger, things that hit hard. Making a legendary big smashy monster is fine, but it'd be a huge ramp deck. Which if it casts with flash, or comes out untouchable to removoal? Would either be too big to play, or too effective not to play. Which is a problem.
GU's problem is being fairly undesigned space, and RW's problem is that it's almost too well designed with its shared keyword being 'hit things in the face.'
Edit: I can already guess what the RW Draft Uncommon is probably going to look like. A Soldier (most likely human) with Melee, Double Strike, and Power between -1 to 1, Toughness between 2 to 3.
Depends on how the actual comp rules are worded. Reminder text isn't exactly the best to go on.
Generals meant to be drafted first in a single pack of 6 cards.
And here is the actual cube, meant to be drafted in 4 regular sized packs. (60 card decks)
Gonna quote myself, "yet Wizards never explore it again in LEGENDS." I was referring to majority of Boros legendary creatures being combat oriented, even when this color combo has other sects of spells, life, and control beyond combat. Examples: Searing Meditation, Balefire Liege, Blaze Commando, Brion Stoutarm (one of the few that's not entirely combat), Moonhold, Powerstone Minefield (can be defensive in nature), Boros Reckoner, etc.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
The problem is that those themes are better represented in other pairs, while red/white is the best at combat. I'd like to see RW get a dedicated Equipment theme, but that will require a set with a larger-than-usual number of artifacts or artifact tokens.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Agrus Kos, Wojek Veteran
Anya, Merciless Angel
Basandra, Battle Seraph
Jor Kadeen, the Prevailer
I'd argue that those themes aren't necessarily better represented in other colors, but even if they are, that doesn't mean they cannot go into this combo. Talrand, Sky Summoner and Meloku the Clouded mirror for two are token generators but still manage to stay within blue, even if other colors are traditionally better at doing it. It CAN be done.
And, quoting Kassow-Rossing, Warleader's Helix isn't that long ago, alongside equally recent Deflecting Palm, Boros has a theme of damage manipulation outside of combat since Invasion block (2000), it can be explored within legendary creatures. My thoughts, of course, is aiming mainly at EDH play, I'm sure with a draft-focused set like Conspiracy Wizards have their concern about balance and drafting in mind.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs
Now, I am a little surprised they didn't try to make RW continue its Defender Matters concept from Cons1. She's Captain of the Guard after all, and there's room to play there to make that work. Making not attacking a resource, of some kind.
But as they needed a Melee Matters card, she was the call since she's calling the Queen out.
Spells are most covered by UR, Life by GW or WB, and control outside of combat by WUB. Just because blue gets a few notable token makers doesn't mean it's going to be a top pick for a token theme, unless those tokens are artifacts and/or copies.
Warleader's Helix and its progenitor were examples of one-off multicolor cards that combined two symmetric effects together, generally only practical in a multicolor heavy set. True, RW does also overlap on damage redirection and retaliation, but those are reactive themes and frankly not as diverse as creature-centric aggro.
But I will acknowledge that RW could use Legends with themes beyond "Attack! Attack! Attack!"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Radiance was by far the least liked original RAV mechanic and is considered utter failure. Maybe that is why.
And damage/lifegain is basically RW evergreen. They just wanted her to represent the might of the people.
That said, yes, she is boring and a disappointment for me as well.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Yeah, I eventually realized that...
Combat is Boros's MAIN theme, but they do have other sub-themes that identifies them more than just stick-and-harsh-language combo, evident by the cards you and I both posted. I am not against Boros having good portion of its cards as combat oriented, I was merely commenting on how their recent legends haven't gone beyond the rawr-combat shell, while they have potential to be more.
I didn't miss that, but again I must remind you that my post was mainly about their legendary creatures, which was clearly stated in my first post.
No, you misunderstood me. I was saying that back in old Ravnica, Apocalypse, Lorwyn/Shadowmoon, etc, there were more to Boros than combat, evident by the cards I listed. Combat can be Boros's main theme, but they are capable of more than that. My original post was merely pointing that out, suggesting that Boros legends CAN be more than just combat as well.
EDIT: I should share more examples. Mardu as we know from Tarkir sets up a very offensive theme for its cards, but there are also exceptions in that color combination, such as Tariel, Reckoner of Souls and Queen Marchesa that's not entirely an attacker, even though they could be. Occasionally cards can go beyond their popular genre and aim for something that's beyond the norm but still within its color flavor.
EDIT 2: Before legendary creatures are called that, they were simply called "Legend". I'm old school so at times I use both terms, for that I apologize for the confusion.
Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest WUR Voltron Control
Temmet, Vizier of Naktamun WU Unblockable Mirror Trickery
Ra's al Ghul (Sidar Kondo) and Face-Down Ninjas
Brudiclad, Token Engineer
Vaevictis (VV2) the Dire Lantern
Rona, Disciple of Gix
Tiana the Auror
Hallar
Ulrich the Politician
Zur the Rebel
Scorpion, Locust, Scarab, Egyptian Gods
O-Kagachi, Mathas, Mairsil
"Non-Tribal" Tribal Generals, Eggs