This card is not as insane as its made out to be. Early game it's a timewalk for opponents, late game it's a 2 for 1... 3 for 1 at best (at rare! and only if you play an enchantment)
Chill. This wont be played much. Dromoka's Command is still better.
With always watching out you can attack and then cast this card main phase 2 for counters and destruction. You only have to tap one creature past the first to destroy a creature/enchant and put a 1/1 counter on all your dudes. This card is the collective work of wizards' love of white, this is the fourth or fifth constructed playable card in this set.
Holy ***** that card is absurd I now need it for all my white decks which in standard means all of them! Now onto the real topic of this thread. As a player who gravitated toward G/W I am starting to become quite annoyed with the lack of balance I mean seriously this too for white? I wish if they intended to push white that they did so by expanding their slice of the colour pie instead of pushing the crap out what white could already do. Way too much value here.
Honestly as an Izzet player, standard saddens me. Last time I played standard was INN-RTR because after that, being a spellslinger was badwrongfun. WotC has actively punished people for wanting to play spell decks and not just have a creature brawl, because little Timmy doesn't understand that 3 mana open with a U player is a dangerous place to be and you should try and strategize vs just vomiting hand.
Standard is turning more and more into goldfish...
And what is worse, with the damned reserve list, it is getting harder to find people to play legacy, the last bastion of play what u want.
keep hope. There are a lot of seeds for a spells linger type deck in SOI block and hopefully Kaldesh will fill out a deck. It was R/U world in origins.
I want to thank Wizards for finally producing a decent white card in this Standard format where the color has been sadly neglected and underrepresented.
Could not agree more. Blue makes sense kind of because people complain the most when counterspell magic is strong. Red really throws me as its the easiest to learn and teach new players. Black is more advanced but is the "cool" color where you get to do really cool things at a cost to yourself....why isn't black that color anymore. Would a "BB pay 5 life destroy target creature or planeswalker" really destroy standard.
Seriously, when was the last time white was a bad color. Its has always been in recent memory either been good on it's own or part of a 2 3 or 4 color tier 1 deck.
I don't think you can say that about any other color, especially now since u/r is easily weak and not even a support color in a much played deck. Basically what wizards needs to do is get rid of all these splashable spells and go back to printing 2 and 3 single mana symbol spells that are more powerful that their generic mana opposites to insentivise players to go mono color something. Basically, devotion should always be a mechanic IMO.
Sorry but in Theros block, the only reason to play white was Elspeth. The colour was the only one without a functional devotion deck, and the only deck that played white was the control deck for Elspeth and the Azorius trifecta of control cards. White Weenie also wasn't a thing since the last Ravnica block.
So, G/W Tokens gets a Dromoka's Command replacement BEFORE it's gone, which is pushed and playable right now. Also team pump since Always Watching doesn't apply. ALSO another way to deal with the only card that punishes playing the deck, Virulent Plague?!? Come on...
Also, white hasn't always been Tier 1. During Lorwyn, white was so bad that there was only one white card in a GP Top 8 - one oblivion ring in a sideboard.
That's only because Faeries. Seriously. If you weren't playing Faeries you lost.
It wasn't even that 'blue' was good. It was Faeries specifically. Any other blue tribe (Merfolk) or black tribe (Goblins, Treefolk) got their asses handed to them.
If you ban all the Faerie cards like our tabletop group did - then it's a tossup between Merfolk Wizards and Kithkin Soldiers (shocker, the last one is white)
Wow, like white wasnt already dominating standard. This after an always watching...seriously wizards...black has to discard cards and all white has to do is tap untapped creatures(and only 3 of them). Red got it the easiest with just paying 1 generic but really wizards, do not not see the diparity between the black and white escalate cost. Do you guys even think when printing cards? What's blue's going to be...for each card you drew this turn, escalate 1.
Black is one of the colors of madness, where discarding can be upside. That's an attempt to make the black escalate BETTER, not worse.
There are currently three cards with Madness cost one, one each for B/R/U.
There are currently four cards with Madness cost two, one for B and U and two for R.
So casting Collective Brutality for parity with this one means playing Brutality on turn three and onward so you can cast Alms of the Vein or Fiery Temper. Turn four and onward to use anything with Madness 2 and using four mana. G/W will only ever need to pay three mana and can simply tap a Thraben Inspector or other one drop starting turn three with no additional mana requirements or needing specific cards in hand to make it better.
God damn it wizards. GW tokens didn't need any more toys. I guess you had to tack on incidental enchantment destruction because dromoka's command wasn't enough? Almost every deck has already had to cut enchantments from the mainboard and now you do this to us.
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They got any cheap token makers for this in Standard? Raise the Alarm just rotated out, fortunately for white's growing hateclub in here and unfortunately for those who love on-curve synergy.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Could not agree more. Blue makes sense kind of because people complain the most when counterspell magic is strong. Red really throws me as its the easiest to learn and teach new players. Black is more advanced but is the "cool" color where you get to do really cool things at a cost to yourself....why isn't black that color anymore. Would a "BB pay 5 life destroy target creature or planeswalker" really destroy standard.
Seriously, when was the last time white was a bad color. Its has always been in recent memory either been good on it's own or part of a 2 3 or 4 color tier 1 deck.
I don't think you can say that about any other color, especially now since u/r is easily weak and not even a support color in a much played deck. Basically what wizards needs to do is get rid of all these splashable spells and go back to printing 2 and 3 single mana symbol spells that are more powerful that their generic mana opposites to insentivise players to go mono color something. Basically, devotion should always be a mechanic IMO.
Sorry but in Theros block, the only reason to play white was Elspeth. The colour was the only one without a functional devotion deck, and the only deck that played white was the control deck for Elspeth and the Azorius trifecta of control cards. White Weenie also wasn't a thing since the last Ravnica block.
Elspeth, Banishing Light, Archangel of Thune, Soldier of the Pantheon, Ajani Caller of the Pride, Brimaz, Fleece-mane Lion, Last Breath, and even Fated Retribution all saw a reasonable amount of play in a variety of white decks. If we count multicolored spells, we get a bunch more with Verdict, Assemble the Legion, Warleader's Helix, Boros Charm, Boros Reckoner, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ajani Mentor of Heroes, Blood Baron, Sin Collector, Obzedat, Sphinx's Revelation, etc. White was doing fine in RTR-THS. It wasn't a solo-color, but it was hardly a splash in the decks that played it. Further, white based decks as an aggragate over the course of that format accounted for about 36% of the meta game, which is not at all shabby.
Honestly as an Izzet player, standard saddens me. Last time I played standard was INN-RTR because after that, being a spellslinger was badwrongfun. WotC has actively punished people for wanting to play spell decks and not just have a creature brawl, because little Timmy doesn't understand that 3 mana open with a U player is a dangerous place to be and you should try and strategize vs just vomiting hand.
Standard is turning more and more into goldfish...
And what is worse, with the damned reserve list, it is getting harder to find people to play legacy, the last bastion of play what u want.
Posts like this make me wonder if such "spell deck" players deserve it. Is it possible for you people to make your point about your style being nerfed without needlessly insulting and diminishing the intelligence of people who don't prefer your style?
Honestly as an Izzet player, standard saddens me. Last time I played standard was INN-RTR because after that, being a spellslinger was badwrongfun. WotC has actively punished people for wanting to play spell decks and not just have a creature brawl, because little Timmy doesn't understand that 3 mana open with a U player is a dangerous place to be and you should try and strategize vs just vomiting hand.
Standard is turning more and more into goldfish...
And what is worse, with the damned reserve list, it is getting harder to find people to play legacy, the last bastion of play what u want.
Posts like this make me wonder if such "spell deck" players deserve it. Is it possible for you people to make your point about your style being nerfed without needlessly insulting and diminishing the intelligence of people who don't prefer your style?
Because it is quite well known that newer players tend toward Timmy, and newer players tend not to like people saying no. That is why you hear them complaining about deck with 30counter spells and something like that. Or getting mad that someone countered their eldrazi dude... and that wizards is catering to them. Cards with drawbacks are reduced (vs how B used to be like with Phyrexians Negator and such), double edged cards are nixed (look at the slivers... and MaRo actually said it was because newer players didn't like how slivers played in mirrors, or Hexproof vs shroud). And counters are nixed hard...
More experienced players know how to play around all that, but newer players don't, and wizards right now cares about the new, casual player.
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Oh on a side note, anyone notice the stupid synergy between the two escalate cards? Tap Down 2 creatures to get full effect, then untaps with the other escalate card with surprise blockers.
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If they are going to make white cards that break Standard, they should at least make them Modern-playable. They clearly don't care what counts as OP in Standard, so can we get some white cards like these instead?
X
Sorcery
Spend only white mana on X
Put X 1/1 white spirit tokens with flying into play
1W
Instant
Target creature or player gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn
Draw a card
2WW
Creature-Angel
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, name a card.
You and CARDNAME can't be targeted by the named card.
Your opponents can't cast the named card.
3/4
Alternatively, they could actually try to balance the colors in Standard. But if they are going to break Standard, they could at least do it in a way that gives Modern's worst color some playables.
Could not agree more. Blue makes sense kind of because people complain the most when counterspell magic is strong. Red really throws me as its the easiest to learn and teach new players. Black is more advanced but is the "cool" color where you get to do really cool things at a cost to yourself....why isn't black that color anymore. Would a "BB pay 5 life destroy target creature or planeswalker" really destroy standard.
Seriously, when was the last time white was a bad color. Its has always been in recent memory either been good on it's own or part of a 2 3 or 4 color tier 1 deck.
I don't think you can say that about any other color, especially now since u/r is easily weak and not even a support color in a much played deck. Basically what wizards needs to do is get rid of all these splashable spells and go back to printing 2 and 3 single mana symbol spells that are more powerful that their generic mana opposites to insentivise players to go mono color something. Basically, devotion should always be a mechanic IMO.
The dirty little secret is that Blue and Red are rarely every particularly strong in standard, and when they even approach being one of the stronger colors it is often considered a mistake.
Keep in mind that both Green and White have had a continued existence in Tier 1 decks for almost the entirety of Standard's existence going back to Combo Winter and Urza's block (And were quite often the *strongest* color by far). Neither Blue nor Red can even come close to such a claim, and yet people say "It's finally time for Green and White to dominate". Which is a ridiculous statement. Green and White have always been good choices for standard, and at times were the *best* choices you could make. Red and Blue rarely every get to shine, and when they do people find it offensive.
What a load of wash.
Not to argue, but I played competitive Type 2 (Standard, now) in that era and before. In the Urza block format you mentioned, the best 2 decks were easily Lackey Sligh and Academy. Even after the banning of Academy, the deck lived on in various incarnations using cards like Dream Halls, etc. Even after they banned MoM, the blue deck was still dominant as it morphed into a tempo control using cards like Treachery and Morphling. Likewise, red moved into various Wildfire builds and what would become Ponza red. I would go so far as to say that with the exception of Black Winter with Necropotence, blue and red ruled the roost of the competitive scene for the first 10 years of MtGs history.
I mean, there is a reason why 'WoTC should ban Islands.' 'Basic Island is the strongest card in Magic.' Became memes.
All that is ancient history though and really, has no relevance on the current state of the game. I only bring it up because the game often flows in cycles. It really wasn't *that* long ago that people were complaining about Sphinx's Revelation, Aetherling, and Supreme Verdict. Even more recently than that, Atarka Red won 2 back-to-back pro tours for the Standard format.
I understand that its hard to be patient but pendulum will swing back the other direction the same way it always does. The same way it always has.
Red and Blue rarely every get to shine, and when they do people find it offensive.
Jeskai and Atarka Red decks were huge just recently. Blue Devotion was a major player a couple years ago. Gruul Aggro and Red Decks Wins were solid before that (Innistrad and RTR). Red Deck Wins was solid in Zendikar-Scars Standard, and Valakut decks were big. Etc. Usually there's at least an okay Standard deck that features blue and/or red. Blue and/or red decks often do well.
Could not agree more. Blue makes sense kind of because people complain the most when counterspell magic is strong. Red really throws me as its the easiest to learn and teach new players. Black is more advanced but is the "cool" color where you get to do really cool things at a cost to yourself....why isn't black that color anymore. Would a "BB pay 5 life destroy target creature or planeswalker" really destroy standard.
Seriously, when was the last time white was a bad color. Its has always been in recent memory either been good on it's own or part of a 2 3 or 4 color tier 1 deck.
I don't think you can say that about any other color, especially now since u/r is easily weak and not even a support color in a much played deck. Basically what wizards needs to do is get rid of all these splashable spells and go back to printing 2 and 3 single mana symbol spells that are more powerful that their generic mana opposites to insentivise players to go mono color something. Basically, devotion should always be a mechanic IMO.
The dirty little secret is that Blue and Red are rarely every particularly strong in standard, and when they even approach being one of the stronger colors it is often considered a mistake.
Keep in mind that both Green and White have had a continued existence in Tier 1 decks for almost the entirety of Standard's existence going back to Combo Winter and Urza's block (And were quite often the *strongest* color by far). Neither Blue nor Red can even come close to such a claim, and yet people say "It's finally time for Green and White to dominate". Which is a ridiculous statement. Green and White have always been good choices for standard, and at times were the *best* choices you could make. Red and Blue rarely every get to shine, and when they do people find it offensive.
What a load of wash.
Not to argue, but I played competitive Type 2 (Standard, now) in that era and before. In the Urza block format you mentioned, the best 2 decks were easily Lackey Sligh and Academy. Even after the banning of Academy, the deck lived on in various incarnations using cards like Dream Halls, etc. Even after they banned MoM, the blue deck was still dominant as it morphed into a tempo control using cards like Treachery and Morphling. Likewise, red moved into various Wildfire builds and what would become Ponza red. I would go so far as to say that with the exception of Black Winter with Necropotence, blue and red ruled the roost of the competitive scene for the first 10 years of MtGs history.
I mean, there is a reason why 'WoTC should ban Islands.' 'Basic Island is the strongest card in Magic.' Became memes.
All that is ancient history though and really, has no relevance on the current state of the game. I only bring it up because the game often flows in cycles. It really wasn't *that* long ago that people were complaining about Sphinx's Revelation, Aetherling, and Supreme Verdict. Even more recently than that, Atarka Red won 2 back-to-back pro tours for the Standard format.
I understand that its hard to be patient but pendulum will swing back the other direction the same way it always does. The same way it always has.
Supreme verdict and Rev were both also white...
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With always watching out you can attack and then cast this card main phase 2 for counters and destruction. You only have to tap one creature past the first to destroy a creature/enchant and put a 1/1 counter on all your dudes. This card is the collective work of wizards' love of white, this is the fourth or fifth constructed playable card in this set.
What about U/W heroic?
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
white being special in this standard is common knowledge already.
That's only because Faeries. Seriously. If you weren't playing Faeries you lost.
It wasn't even that 'blue' was good. It was Faeries specifically. Any other blue tribe (Merfolk) or black tribe (Goblins, Treefolk) got their asses handed to them.
If you ban all the Faerie cards like our tabletop group did - then it's a tossup between Merfolk Wizards and Kithkin Soldiers (shocker, the last one is white)
After Shadowmoor, Selesnya (Or even 'mono-white' with no green mana sources) won out with cards like Kitchen Finks Shield Of the Oversoul Oversoul of Dusk Wilt-leaf Liege Light from Within. Again, assuming Faeries are not allowed.
There are currently three cards with Madness cost one, one each for B/R/U.
There are currently four cards with Madness cost two, one for B and U and two for R.
So casting Collective Brutality for parity with this one means playing Brutality on turn three and onward so you can cast Alms of the Vein or Fiery Temper. Turn four and onward to use anything with Madness 2 and using four mana. G/W will only ever need to pay three mana and can simply tap a Thraben Inspector or other one drop starting turn three with no additional mana requirements or needing specific cards in hand to make it better.
How many more playable cards are they going to print in this set?!
Liliana always did have a playful side. And Gideon's just the right kind of guy to bring it out.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Elspeth, Banishing Light, Archangel of Thune, Soldier of the Pantheon, Ajani Caller of the Pride, Brimaz, Fleece-mane Lion, Last Breath, and even Fated Retribution all saw a reasonable amount of play in a variety of white decks. If we count multicolored spells, we get a bunch more with Verdict, Assemble the Legion, Warleader's Helix, Boros Charm, Boros Reckoner, Detention Sphere, Azorius Charm, Selesnya Charm, Ajani Mentor of Heroes, Blood Baron, Sin Collector, Obzedat, Sphinx's Revelation, etc. White was doing fine in RTR-THS. It wasn't a solo-color, but it was hardly a splash in the decks that played it. Further, white based decks as an aggragate over the course of that format accounted for about 36% of the meta game, which is not at all shabby.
Posts like this make me wonder if such "spell deck" players deserve it. Is it possible for you people to make your point about your style being nerfed without needlessly insulting and diminishing the intelligence of people who don't prefer your style?
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
Because it is quite well known that newer players tend toward Timmy, and newer players tend not to like people saying no. That is why you hear them complaining about deck with 30counter spells and something like that. Or getting mad that someone countered their eldrazi dude... and that wizards is catering to them. Cards with drawbacks are reduced (vs how B used to be like with Phyrexians Negator and such), double edged cards are nixed (look at the slivers... and MaRo actually said it was because newer players didn't like how slivers played in mirrors, or Hexproof vs shroud). And counters are nixed hard...
More experienced players know how to play around all that, but newer players don't, and wizards right now cares about the new, casual player.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
X
Sorcery
Spend only white mana on X
Put X 1/1 white spirit tokens with flying into play
1W
Instant
Target creature or player gains protection from the color of your choice until end of turn
Draw a card
2WW
Creature-Angel
Flying
When CARDNAME enters the battlefield, name a card.
You and CARDNAME can't be targeted by the named card.
Your opponents can't cast the named card.
3/4
Alternatively, they could actually try to balance the colors in Standard. But if they are going to break Standard, they could at least do it in a way that gives Modern's worst color some playables.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Not to argue, but I played competitive Type 2 (Standard, now) in that era and before. In the Urza block format you mentioned, the best 2 decks were easily Lackey Sligh and Academy. Even after the banning of Academy, the deck lived on in various incarnations using cards like Dream Halls, etc. Even after they banned MoM, the blue deck was still dominant as it morphed into a tempo control using cards like Treachery and Morphling. Likewise, red moved into various Wildfire builds and what would become Ponza red. I would go so far as to say that with the exception of Black Winter with Necropotence, blue and red ruled the roost of the competitive scene for the first 10 years of MtGs history.
I mean, there is a reason why 'WoTC should ban Islands.' 'Basic Island is the strongest card in Magic.' Became memes.
All that is ancient history though and really, has no relevance on the current state of the game. I only bring it up because the game often flows in cycles. It really wasn't *that* long ago that people were complaining about Sphinx's Revelation, Aetherling, and Supreme Verdict. Even more recently than that, Atarka Red won 2 back-to-back pro tours for the Standard format.
I understand that its hard to be patient but pendulum will swing back the other direction the same way it always does. The same way it always has.
Jeskai and Atarka Red decks were huge just recently. Blue Devotion was a major player a couple years ago. Gruul Aggro and Red Decks Wins were solid before that (Innistrad and RTR). Red Deck Wins was solid in Zendikar-Scars Standard, and Valakut decks were big. Etc. Usually there's at least an okay Standard deck that features blue and/or red. Blue and/or red decks often do well.
Supreme verdict and Rev were both also white...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.