Her first ability is going to be underwhelming when there are better creature removal options around the same CMC. They did reprint Murder.
In a creature based deck here first ability is ok since it clears the path or shrinks your opponents creature which gives your creature the advantage in battle and it's repeatable. This is a planeswalker for aggro or midrange not control.
I love the new lili. She's quite strong in a modern Grixis shell, and quite strong in any of the GB decks in standard. Definitely going to be investing in some when they're nice and low at the prerelease.
I play grixis and just don't see it. Can you please explain?
I think i can see a little of what he is hinting at for grixis in standard. Her +1 helps you survive to midrange. The -2 can put dark dwellers or kalitas back in your hand, and random spells milled aren't as bad with dark dwellers. Her ultimate might be the game ender in a grindy match.
Yes true didn't think of that. For my modern build would be just as good as I play both in there. Plus snap, winner winner chicken dinner.
i think this lili is a good card, but not great (and i am not comparing here with lotv)
i wonder if -2-2 would have been to powerful
same goes for her second ability. is it so strong that it had to be -2 ? why not -1 or why not make it the +1 ability and -2-2 the -2 ability ???
the thing with those 2 abilities is, they aint bad, but they aint that good too. spend 3 mana to make some a creature smaller without really being able to kill it (i mean, it can kill some, but those are rarely ... u know what i mean). also the -2 can be to random in the early game and not that much of a card advantage.
so those abilities are not bad, but they are only in so specific situations really good. i would have prefered a general good lili to have a more stable turn 3 drop in my deck.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
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Peasant: Storm (UR) Commander:Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet] Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB) Legacy: Burn (R) Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
Lackluster. What deck would you run her in? What current standard or modern deck would you use her in? What type of deck would she benefit the most? What cards does she have the most synergy with that will make her standard playable? What series of plays will make her worth spending three mana on? In all honesty, I'd rather play Liliana, Heretical Healer in an agressive zombie or midrange shell.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
Lackluster. What deck would you run her in? What current standard or modern deck would you use her in? What type of deck would she benefit the most? What cards does she have the most synergy with that will make her standard playable? What series of plays will make her worth spending three mana on? In all honesty, I'd rather play Liliana, Heretical Healer in and agressive zombie or midrange shell.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
Lackluster. What deck would you run her in? What current standard or modern deck would you use her in? What type of deck would she benefit the most? What cards does she have the most synergy with that will make her standard playable? What series of plays will make her worth spending three mana on? In all honesty, I'd rather play Liliana, Heretical Healer in and agressive zombie or midrange shell.
Yeah, the thing is, she's almost good. She's almost playable. Little changes could have made her better without breaking her, but they were unwilling to commit to making her good. Like most things in black in the last 8 sets. It is the 'almost' color.
Guess they really do want to push Liliana as the necromancer planeswalker.
She's..ok. I mean if I still had my old old janky (like when I first started playing EDH before investing into the format primarily) zombie tribal EDH deck from when Innistrad originally released, I'd have liked her.
I'm ok with Ob Nixilis being the best black planeswalker in standard.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
Lackluster. What deck would you run her in? What current standard or modern deck would you use her in? What type of deck would she benefit the most? What cards does she have the most synergy with that will make her standard playable? What series of plays will make her worth spending three mana on? In all honesty, I'd rather play Liliana, Heretical Healer in and agressive zombie or midrange shell.
Yeah, the thing is, she's almost good. She's almost playable. Little changes could have made her better without breaking her, but they were unwilling to commit to making her good. Like most things in black in the last 8 sets. It is the 'almost' color.
I agree, as a old MBC player waiting for the deck to be viable again. People cant get over Mono black Devotion which was a Midrange deck not MBC.
Guess they really do want to push Liliana as the necromancer planeswalker.
She's..ok. I mean if I still had my old old janky (like when I first started playing EDH before investing into the format primarily) zombie tribal EDH deck from when Innistrad originally released, I'd have liked her.
I'm ok with Ob Nixilis being the best black planeswalker in standard.
That is amazing, he really IS the best black walker in standard and he really isn't that special. He's just 'ok'.
Guess they really do want to push Liliana as the necromancer planeswalker.
She's..ok. I mean if I still had my old old janky (like when I first started playing EDH before investing into the format primarily) zombie tribal EDH deck from when Innistrad originally released, I'd have liked her.
I'm ok with Ob Nixilis being the best black planeswalker in standard.
That is amazing, he really IS the best black walker in standard and he really isn't that special. He's just 'ok'.
He does what he needs to. He's basically Unraveler of Secrets, but black. He's just a very safe black planeswalker, he's not flashy, just exactly what a generic (not in a bad way, mind) black planeswalker would do. Phyrexian Arena, Murder, and a nifty ultimate.
Ob Nixilis standout is that he's a utility Walker. His card advantage options puts him ahead of the new Liliana. It'll be hard for her against Red now with Incendiary Flow.
I feel like they made Lilly as a 3CMC walker, because they know people are mad they still haven't reprinted LotV. I think this new Lilly is ok, but not a great card, but I hate that it is in contention with LotV. She should have been a 4CMC walker with better abilities, not only to avoid the LotV comparisons, but also because Zombies (the deck she plays best in) is already cramped at the 3CMC slot.
That -2 ability is Liliana's best ability but I feel like I would rather play her oath for 3 mana.
Tbh, would have preferred a 2/2 zombie as her +1 instead. There's also the fact that if you aren't playing zombies her ultimate literally just puts 2 zombie tokens onto the battlefield that you can't do shenanigans with that turn. Would've been really cool as a reanimate ability.
i'm sure most people would have preferred a 2/2 on a +1 considering the best card in standard right now does that at 4 mana on a 0
and her ult checks every end step, it's slow to start but quickly spirals out of control if unchecked (and also quickly becomes impossible to check). it's shut down by virulent plague but otherwise is phenomenal
I agree. Her plus 1 should have been -2/-2. Her ultimate is way too restrictive to zombie decks and -2 is just a worse version of baby lilliana's minus ability. I was not expecting LotV but this is quite under whelming. I cannot think of a good deck this will go in right now. Nissa was easy to imagine going into any wide deck. She slots right in. I can't even think of a deck in recent standard this would have been good in. Maybe mono black way back but I think they had better things to spend 3 mana on.
I could be wrong but she will not impact standard at all until rotation at the absolute earliest.
i think she's overrated and will see major play everywhere for a month, then tank in value hard as she doesn't find a home, and then rise a little bit just before she rotates, then tank again harder.
i also think i'll be criticized heavily for saying that.
I hate her ultimate because it feels so underwhelming if you don't already have a commanding board presence. Not what makes a Planeswalker ultimate awesome, IMO. I'm really surprised to see her at 3 mana though. I was sure she would be 4. I do like her + ability. Her - ability doesn't really excite me. I love her Oath and it's flavor text, though.
i think she's overrated and will see major play everywhere for a month, then tank in value hard as she doesn't find a home, and then rise a little bit just before she rotates, then tank again harder.
i also think i'll be criticized heavily for saying that.
nice art though, and i dig her emblem
I think most people will quickly figure out just how weak this lili is. The fact that the -2 requires you to 1. play creatures. 2. have creatures in the yard. 3. want a THREE MANA RAISE DEAD means that her applications are few and far between, with number 3 being the main hurdle. The ult is too hard to attain, the +1 isn't impactful enough, and the -2 is one of the worst loyalty abilities to ever appear on a walker. Expect this to see 0 play.
The Walker seems great, not sure why all the nay sayers. I think she could potentially see play in modern in grixis - her plus puts her out of bolt range while protecting herself. The minus fuels the yard for snaps, tasigurs, k-command and rebuys value creatures. It basically does the same thing as Telepath Unbound and is better in some ways simply because it doesn't die to common removal.
i think she's overrated and will see major play everywhere for a month, then tank in value hard as she doesn't find a home, and then rise a little bit just before she rotates, then tank again harder.
i also think i'll be criticized heavily for saying that.
nice art though, and i dig her emblem
I think most people will quickly figure out just how weak this lili is. The fact that the -2 requires you to 1. play creatures. 2. have creatures in the yard. 3. want a THREE MANA RAISE DEAD means that her applications are few and far between, with number 3 being the main hurdle. The ult is too hard to attain, the +1 isn't impactful enough, and the -2 is one of the worst loyalty abilities to ever appear on a walker. Expect this to see 0 play.
I really, really hope this is the case because I collect Lilianas, and I want this beautiful one in foil.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
We get a 3 mana PW
with removal AS A PLUS ABILITY,
and people here think it's bad?!?
Stay sassy, MTGS!
I'm not gonna say she is for sure good, but i specifically remember multiple people in this very thread talking deeply and assuredly on how Nahiri is a bad card overall, and then giving detailed points on why she is bad, and then telling me how wrong i was that she could actually have some amazing constructed applications.
I think she will be pretty damn good, not amazing, but damn good.
We get a 3 mana PW
with removal AS A PLUS ABILITY,
and people here think it's bad?!?
Stay sassy, MTGS!
I'm not gonna say she is for sure good, but i specifically remember multiple people in this very thread talking deeply and assuredly on how Nahiri is a bad card overall, and then giving detailed points on why she is bad, and then telling me how wrong i was that she could actually have some amazing constructed applications.
I think she will be pretty damn good, not amazing, but damn good.
Exactly.
I remeber how against Nahiri this forum was.
I probably don't have to say that I'm not upset I pre-ordered a playset of her for $60.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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Yes true didn't think of that. For my modern build would be just as good as I play both in there. Plus snap, winner winner chicken dinner.
Thanks just wasn't seeing it.
I agree, -2/-2 would have been better and still balanced. I just don't like the feel of her abilities, they're awkward and don't really mesh well with each other. Lili of the veil had good abilities that all worked well together, this new Liliana's abilities do random crap. None of her abilities support each other.
Its not as random as you think. Her abilities are meant for a more creature heavy deck. Look at it again through the lens as if it were made for a midrange-aggro deck. Not a control deck.
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Lackluster. What deck would you run her in? What current standard or modern deck would you use her in? What type of deck would she benefit the most? What cards does she have the most synergy with that will make her standard playable? What series of plays will make her worth spending three mana on? In all honesty, I'd rather play Liliana, Heretical Healer in an agressive zombie or midrange shell.
Yeah, the thing is, she's almost good. She's almost playable. Little changes could have made her better without breaking her, but they were unwilling to commit to making her good. Like most things in black in the last 8 sets. It is the 'almost' color.
She's..ok. I mean if I still had my old old janky (like when I first started playing EDH before investing into the format primarily) zombie tribal EDH deck from when Innistrad originally released, I'd have liked her.
I'm ok with Ob Nixilis being the best black planeswalker in standard.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
That is amazing, he really IS the best black walker in standard and he really isn't that special. He's just 'ok'.
He does what he needs to. He's basically Unraveler of Secrets, but black. He's just a very safe black planeswalker, he's not flashy, just exactly what a generic (not in a bad way, mind) black planeswalker would do. Phyrexian Arena, Murder, and a nifty ultimate.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
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Standard Deck:
BUPirates
Modern Deck:
B8-Rack
i'm sure most people would have preferred a 2/2 on a +1 considering the best card in standard right now does that at 4 mana on a 0
and her ult checks every end step, it's slow to start but quickly spirals out of control if unchecked (and also quickly becomes impossible to check). it's shut down by virulent plague but otherwise is phenomenal
GW ~ Angels ~ WG
Modern:
RBW ~ Shadowmancer ~ WBR
Legacy:
BUG ~ Shadow Delver ~ GUB
I could be wrong but she will not impact standard at all until rotation at the absolute earliest.
i also think i'll be criticized heavily for saying that.
nice art though, and i dig her emblem
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I think most people will quickly figure out just how weak this lili is. The fact that the -2 requires you to 1. play creatures. 2. have creatures in the yard. 3. want a THREE MANA RAISE DEAD means that her applications are few and far between, with number 3 being the main hurdle. The ult is too hard to attain, the +1 isn't impactful enough, and the -2 is one of the worst loyalty abilities to ever appear on a walker. Expect this to see 0 play.
I really, really hope this is the case because I collect Lilianas, and I want this beautiful one in foil.
We get a 3 mana PW
with removal AS A PLUS ABILITY,
and people here think it's bad?!?
Stay sassy, MTGS!
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I'm not gonna say she is for sure good, but i specifically remember multiple people in this very thread talking deeply and assuredly on how Nahiri is a bad card overall, and then giving detailed points on why she is bad, and then telling me how wrong i was that she could actually have some amazing constructed applications.
I think she will be pretty damn good, not amazing, but damn good.
Exactly.
I remeber how against Nahiri this forum was.
I probably don't have to say that I'm not upset I pre-ordered a playset of her for $60.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW