It will destroy turns from aristocrats decks and Clues decks all around...
Oh, I heard you like activating your Tamiyo's Journal to sacrifice clues and trigger Ulvenwald Mysteries?
sorry, you can try assemble your 3 clues again, this ones will do nothing
You are talking about french EDH, not actual EDH, in actual EDH, this card is pretty useful, and a welcome addition to most blue decks, and a very different powerful and interesting effect.
You are talking about french EDH, not actual EDH, in actual EDH, this card is pretty useful, and a welcome addition to most blue decks, and a very different powerful and interesting effect.
I was talking about both. If you're playing competitive in both formats, you don't play the slow and bad 4 mana counterspell.
By the time you can cast this Zur will have hit you and searched necropotence, Derevi will have you full tapped with winter orb in play, Edric will have 3 different counterspells in hand to stop all of this and Oloro and Tasigur will laugh at your face. Not to mention multiple other competitive level decks. As I said, for a for fun deck it is pretty acceptable, pretty unique, etc. I don't have anything in particular against the card, just saying that its power level is not there to reach constructed playability.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
EDH is not a competitive format, in any case, if you are playing any of those decks, you are doing it wrong, just play ad nauseam and kill everyone on turn 1 - 3, or just any 5 color combo. EDH is about having fun and casting relevant and powerful spells, not saying you should play bad cards in that format, because you want your deck to be relevant, what I'm saying is this is not a bad card by any stretch of the imagination, exiling 2+ spells cast by your opponents or just the most powerful spell around, is very powerful in that format, notice that it doesn't actualy counters the spell, it exiles it from the stack. If you want to play cuttroat EDH, then by all means do so, but if your argument is you shouldn't like this card because it doesn't cost 2 mana, then you are probably looking at the wrong effect, an effect that powerful shouldn't cost less than this card.
EDH is not a competitive format, in any case, if you are playing any of those decks, you are doing it wrong, just play ad nauseam and kill everyone on turn 1 - 3, or just any 5 color combo. EDH is about having fun and casting relevant and powerful spells, not saying you should play bad cards in that format, because you want your deck to be relevant, what I'm saying is this is not a bad card by any stretch of the imagination, exiling 2+ spells cast by your opponents or just the most powerful spell around, is very powerful in that format, notice that it doesn't actualy counters the spell, it exiles it from the stack. If you want to play cuttroat EDH, then by all means do so, but if your argument is you shouldn't like this card because it doesn't cost 2 mana, then you are probably looking at the wrong effect, an effect that powerful shouldn't cost less than this card.
Ad Nauseam decks are not as consistent as you think they are. Oloro is probably the strongest, but it requires setup, Zur and Derevi for instance are certainly stronger.
I don't see what I said that disagrees with what you said: if you want to play for fun this card is fine. You can play with friends in multiplayer and find a good utility for this. My argument is that this card is not competitive. That's it. I already said that I don't have anything against it. As I also said in another thread: you want to play EDH casually, cool, I want to play it competitive and this card is not for my style of EDH.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Nahiri, the Harbinger players are going to have to think extra hard about ultimating at 8 loyalty now. I know in the mirror matches the player that gets Nahiri down first usually wins, but now the other player has a defense to Planeswalkers going off.
Arguably the best counterspell ever printed? Don't embarrass yourself. This is nothing in comparison to counterspell not to even mention force of will, mana drain, and mental misstep. Sure it's a neat card, but 4 mana limits it greatly. On the level of cryptic command but that card isn't legacy playable.
Countermagic that costs 4 mana isn't legacy playable. Trap doesn't count because it's rarely 4 mana.
I like the card design though and am glad this exists. Nice that it doesn't target so you can use it as a 4 mana stifle for all triggered/activated abilities.
Someone should look up the definitions of "good" and "powerful" before going on a tirade.
Also- I never once mentioned competitive playability.
And this *is* arguably the most powerful counter ever printed.
It literally nullifies all spells and abilities when played.
CC is almost always better, but it isn't as effective a "panic button" as this card.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Arguably the best counterspell ever printed? Don't embarrass yourself. This is nothing in comparison to counterspell not to even mention force of will, mana drain, and mental misstep. Sure it's a neat card, but 4 mana limits it greatly. On the level of cryptic command but that card isn't legacy playable.
Countermagic that costs 4 mana isn't legacy playable. Trap doesn't count because it's rarely 4 mana.
I like the card design though and am glad this exists. Nice that it doesn't target so you can use it as a 4 mana stifle for all triggered/activated abilities.
Someone should look up the definitions of "good" and "powerful" before going on a tirade.
Also- I never once mentioned competitive playability.
And this *is* arguably the most powerful counter ever printed.
It literally nullifies all spells and abilities when played.
CC is almost always better, but it isn't as effective a "panic button" as this card.
Time Stop would be stronger, if that is the definition you're going for.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
Some Standard decks are currently making room for 1 or 2 copies of Ojutai's Command so they might as well trade one of those out for Summary Dismissal. Other decks running the current counterspells like Void Shatter might also consider putting Dismissal as a 1-of; the ability to counter abilities is quite strong.
Arguably the best counterspell ever printed? Don't embarrass yourself. This is nothing in comparison to counterspell not to even mention force of will, mana drain, and mental misstep. Sure it's a neat card, but 4 mana limits it greatly. On the level of cryptic command but that card isn't legacy playable.
Countermagic that costs 4 mana isn't legacy playable. Trap doesn't count because it's rarely 4 mana.
I like the card design though and am glad this exists. Nice that it doesn't target so you can use it as a 4 mana stifle for all triggered/activated abilities.
Someone should look up the definitions of "good" and "powerful" before going on a tirade.
Also- I never once mentioned competitive playability.
And this *is* arguably the most powerful counter ever printed.
It literally nullifies all spells and abilities when played.
CC is almost always better, but it isn't as effective a "panic button" as this card.
Time Stop would be stronger, if that is the definition you're going for.
Except it costs 2 more, and exiles itself. It's barely playable in EDH. This is atleast splashable, and can play Stifle in a pinch.
I think you have vastly underrated this card. It's not comparable to the other spells that hit activated abilities because this hits spells, and also isn't multi-color. Going to be a format staple in EDH. Willing to be it sees play in Modern and Standard. It's just slightly to expensive for eternal.
I think you have vastly underrated this card. It's not comparable to the other spells that hit activated abilities because this hits spells, and also isn't multi-color. Going to be a format staple in EDH. Willing to be it sees play in Modern and Standard. It's just slightly to expensive for eternal.
Hmmm, I know time stop is more expensive. Empathogen's argument was "I'm not talking about efficiency, just about power level". In terms of power level, Time Stop is a more powerful counterspell than this spell. Does it mean it will be played more in EDH? No.
That said, I didn't underrate this card. People just see bad counterspells and get excited if they have an unique effect tackled on them. Craterhoof can be countered with regular counterspell for 2 mana, same goes for Avenger of Zendikar. This stops Derevi and Teferi for ONE turn, making it the-most-expensive-stifle-in-history. It is cool that it is a 'clean' answer for eldrazi, but eldrazi are not so problematic that you have to slot the four mana narrow bad answer to them in your deck. Don't take my word for it though, go ahead and playtest it. I assure you that if you're playing slow 4 drop counterspells you're going to lose to whoever is playing the counterspell/mana drain/fow package. Maybe you just want to use it for fun, in which case is fine, but then don't say that I'm underrating this spell.
Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
I think you have vastly underrated this card. It's not comparable to the other spells that hit activated abilities because this hits spells, and also isn't multi-color. Going to be a format staple in EDH. Willing to be it sees play in Modern and Standard. It's just slightly to expensive for eternal.
Hmmm, I know time stop is more expensive. Empathogen's argument was "I'm not talking about efficiency, just about power level". In terms of power level, Time Stop is a more powerful counterspell than this spell. Does it mean it will be played more in EDH? No.
That said, I didn't underrate this card. People just see bad counterspells and get excited if they have an unique effect tackled on them. Craterhoof can be countered with regular counterspell for 2 mana, same goes for Avenger of Zendikar. This stops Derevi and Teferi for ONE turn, making it the-most-expensive-stifle-in-history. It is cool that it is a 'clean' answer for eldrazi, but eldrazi are not so problematic that you have to slot the four mana narrow bad answer to them in your deck. Don't take my word for it though, go ahead and playtest it. I assure you that if you're playing slow 4 drop counterspells you're going to lose to whoever is playing the counterspell/mana drain/fow package. Maybe you just want to use it for fun, in which case is fine, but then don't say that I'm underrating this spell.
"It's bad if only used competitively, because there are better cards."
That doesn't mean it's a bad card at all. Your comparing it to the best of the best. TimeStop is a one shot deal. I mean, your saying this is bad in competetive environments, yet still compare it to TimeStop, which is never played competitively, and costs less, and arguably does a better job than Timestop(It's bad on your turn, still allows opponent to have untapped mana if used on upkeep, did I mention it costs 2 more and can't be re-used? Oh yeah, you can Counterspell the answer for this for the same cost as Timestop)
I just never understand the hate-train that comes with cards like these. It's not a narrow effect, and is worth the 4-cmc.
Edit: The kicker is that it Exiles. If you play commander as competitively as you say you do, you'd know that exiling from the stack is rarely irrelevant, and counters some of the most powerful spells/commanders in the competetive field that FOW, Manadrain and all the others miss.
Summary Dismissal. Man this card is really strong. I do personally love how it doesn't actually counter a spell as it basically flips the stack out the window.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Peasant: Storm (UR) Commander:Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet] Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB) Legacy: Burn (R) Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
I think you have vastly underrated this card. It's not comparable to the other spells that hit activated abilities because this hits spells, and also isn't multi-color. Going to be a format staple in EDH. Willing to be it sees play in Modern and Standard. It's just slightly to expensive for eternal.
As a (admittedly casual) Wanderer player this doesn't bother me at all. It does shut a turn of Wanderer play down. But that's not any different from an off turn Board Wipe play. This is slightly more cost effective, true. But it still stops Wanderer once. Which isn't really enough. Land Destruction is more of a worry.
This card will be a multiplayer table flip. And can upend certain infinite combos if you have it on hand before the combo hits. It's great, but it isn't world endingly great. Being at T4 (and technically retrievable from your yard) it is a step ahead Time Stop on the usefulness scale. But it most T2-T3 Counters will still be better choices most of the time for picking your 99.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It gets rid of the abilitys as well
emrakul, the Aeons torn the party is over at last.
I think this card would need "can't be countered" added to be considered in modern or legacy, 4 mana is already very slow
True this counter need can't be countered
But it can counter "can't be countered spells." Even takes out the abilitys.
Oh, I heard you like activating your Tamiyo's Journal to sacrifice clues and trigger Ulvenwald Mysteries?
sorry, you can try assemble your 3 clues again, this ones will do nothing
By the time you can cast this Zur will have hit you and searched necropotence, Derevi will have you full tapped with winter orb in play, Edric will have 3 different counterspells in hand to stop all of this and Oloro and Tasigur will laugh at your face. Not to mention multiple other competitive level decks. As I said, for a for fun deck it is pretty acceptable, pretty unique, etc. I don't have anything in particular against the card, just saying that its power level is not there to reach constructed playability.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I don't see what I said that disagrees with what you said: if you want to play for fun this card is fine. You can play with friends in multiplayer and find a good utility for this. My argument is that this card is not competitive. That's it. I already said that I don't have anything against it. As I also said in another thread: you want to play EDH casually, cool, I want to play it competitive and this card is not for my style of EDH.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Someone should look up the definitions of "good" and "powerful" before going on a tirade.
Also- I never once mentioned competitive playability.
And this *is* arguably the most powerful counter ever printed.
It literally nullifies all spells and abilities when played.
CC is almost always better, but it isn't as effective a "panic button" as this card.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Except it costs 2 more, and exiles itself. It's barely playable in EDH. This is atleast splashable, and can play Stifle in a pinch.
This is the end all for Malestrom Wanderer, finally. It's going to be a house in EDH. Craterhoof Behemoth? Not this time. Avenger of Zendikar? Think again. Ulamog, the ceaseless hunger? Please. However, the biggest use is going to be shutting down Kozilek, Butcher of truth. Tap that Grim Monolith and Mana Vault for turn-2 Kozi? Yeah, no. This also exiles Derevi, shuts down Teferi, Temoral Archmage.
I think you have vastly underrated this card. It's not comparable to the other spells that hit activated abilities because this hits spells, and also isn't multi-color. Going to be a format staple in EDH. Willing to be it sees play in Modern and Standard. It's just slightly to expensive for eternal.
That said, I didn't underrate this card. People just see bad counterspells and get excited if they have an unique effect tackled on them. Craterhoof can be countered with regular counterspell for 2 mana, same goes for Avenger of Zendikar. This stops Derevi and Teferi for ONE turn, making it the-most-expensive-stifle-in-history. It is cool that it is a 'clean' answer for eldrazi, but eldrazi are not so problematic that you have to slot the four mana narrow bad answer to them in your deck. Don't take my word for it though, go ahead and playtest it. I assure you that if you're playing slow 4 drop counterspells you're going to lose to whoever is playing the counterspell/mana drain/fow package. Maybe you just want to use it for fun, in which case is fine, but then don't say that I'm underrating this spell.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
"It's bad if only used competitively, because there are better cards."
That doesn't mean it's a bad card at all. Your comparing it to the best of the best. TimeStop is a one shot deal. I mean, your saying this is bad in competetive environments, yet still compare it to TimeStop, which is never played competitively, and costs less, and arguably does a better job than Timestop(It's bad on your turn, still allows opponent to have untapped mana if used on upkeep, did I mention it costs 2 more and can't be re-used? Oh yeah, you can Counterspell the answer for this for the same cost as Timestop)
I just never understand the hate-train that comes with cards like these. It's not a narrow effect, and is worth the 4-cmc.
Edit: The kicker is that it Exiles. If you play commander as competitively as you say you do, you'd know that exiling from the stack is rarely irrelevant, and counters some of the most powerful spells/commanders in the competetive field that FOW, Manadrain and all the others miss.
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
This card will be a multiplayer table flip. And can upend certain infinite combos if you have it on hand before the combo hits. It's great, but it isn't world endingly great. Being at T4 (and technically retrievable from your yard) it is a step ahead Time Stop on the usefulness scale. But it most T2-T3 Counters will still be better choices most of the time for picking your 99.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW