On topic - didn't expect her to be Bant as well. Hopefully that won't hurt her play value because of being too restrictive.
Off topic - When WOTC gives someone the privilege of spoiling a new PW card, they should provide them with high-res bigger image. Reading this new Tamiyo was a pain. The text is so small.
People looking for reasons to whine, as usual. Her +1 ability is Simic as combat damage and card draw and enhancing another creature with that effect has been a very Simic thing for ages. Her -2 is very Azorius as White and Blue both get the ability to tap permanents and make them unable to untap during the next upkeep. Her -7 is obviously the most Blue ability she has because of the association with Omniscience but that's as far as it goes. Her colors can make perfect sense and people should stop whining long enough to consider that if she was a dual or even mono-color Planeswalker she would have been made far less powerful and started out with 3 loyalty for 5-6 mana.
Anyway I'll chalk this up to the same boat of people who thought Tarmogoyf and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy were going to be bad.
People are complaining because she is Bant... in a standard where bant is dominating...
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Her being Bant colored is definitely a flavor thing.
For those wondering why she is this color combo
So what about her's green, supposedly "Instincts and Interdependence"?
She's very much about leaving things the way they are. Keeping the natural order of things in tact. She's very hands off in her research, not wanting to change anything, just observe and record everything. That is a very WUG personality with blue being primary color.
Her -2 is very Azorius as White and Blue both get the ability to tap permanents and make them unable to untap during the next upkeep.
Right, because outside of Detain, white has so many tapped and stay tapped cards?
You mean like all of these? Oh, and you're trying to discredit the mechanic that defined the entire guild on Ravnica for a block to support your need for incessant whining? Seems logical.
People looking for reasons to whine, as usual. Her +1 ability is Simic as combat damage and card draw and enhancing another creature with that effect has been a very Simic thing for ages. Her -2 is very Azorius as White and Blue both get the ability to tap permanents and make them unable to untap during the next upkeep. Her -7 is obviously the most Blue ability she has because of the association with Omniscience but that's as far as it goes. Her colors can make perfect sense and people should stop whining long enough to consider that if she was a dual or even mono-color Planeswalker she would have been made far less powerful and started out with 3 loyalty for 5-6 mana.
Anyway I'll chalk this up to the same boat of people who thought Tarmogoyf and Jace, Vryn's Prodigy were going to be bad.
People are complaining because she is Bant... in a standard where bant is dominating...
Don't really see anyone saying much about Standard. Most can't get past the fact that they don't know how the game mechanics work and what colors can do what but always seem to have an awful strong opinion about it, anyways.
I was already running Oath of Gideon in GW for the extra loyalty counters on Gideon and Nissa, so I can add U to the deck to include Jace, Narset, and now Tamiyo. Fine--Bant Superfriends it is, then.
Yeah, Good planeswalker, in the colors of the best deck in standard, that probably does not need her. However, if it does use her, even more disgusting card and tempo advantage.
With that said, I do not understand why she has white in her colors. None of her abilities says white, they all say U/G. I guess they could not do a U/G walker after they just had a set with a U/G walker. So they add White to her mana symbol. That would make sense to me.
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Bant Tamiyo? That's random as hell. And underpowered. A 3-color 'walker should have a much bigger impact than that. As a Bant player I'm very underwhelmed by this card.
Her being Bant colored is definitely a flavor thing.
For those wondering why she is this color combo
It's not though because she's the best representation of mono blue that there is (currently anyway). Jace should be UR, UB, or UW; he's certainly not mono blue in personality.
It's funny because the story spoilers say she declines to join the gatewatch because she only wants to study and explore. And she came to innistrad solely to study the moon in the first place. Doesn't sound very white to me.
Drawing cards (only one though) as a +1 is nice. Conditional is bad.
Where are you getting "only one" from? Or even "conditional?" The condition is that creatures exist somewhere on the board, and that they do damage.
She can tag 2 creatures, each of them gets to draw you a card. If you tag two creatures, you get two cards. Next up, it lasts until your next turn. This means that you can tag opponents' creatures, and still get cards. It also means that you can tag a creature with vigilance and get cards on attack, and on defense for maybe up to 4 cards. Or, you can tag one of your creatures, and an opponent's creature... now if they block you, you get 2 cards, if they don't block, you get face damage and a card. On their turn, if they attack back, you get another card! It's crazy!
Yeah, that conditional part, it's not damage to a player, it's damage... period. If your creature is blocked, you draw, if it isn't... you draw. They have to remove your creatures in some other way to prevent it, and if they start using removal on weaker creatures to do that, then that's a form of CA anyways.
I was under the impression that it was only a single instance of drawing a card for either of the two creatures dealing damage (I wasn't commenting on the lasting through the next turn part at all). If it triggers on both of them, thus drawing two cards then it's much better.
Conditional however does still apply. Using it on your opponents creatures gives them the option to not attack (which is still good don't get me wrong, but it does remove the card draw). Using it on your own creatures is also conditional on them doing damage. This can be stopped in a number of ways, from removal, first strikers, damage prevention effects, combat prevention effects, or simply not wanting to trade/lose your creature for a fresh card. Not all of those are likely to apply alot of the time making it far less conditional when use of your creatures but it is still conditional even given the idea that a creature is on the board.
Her being Bant colored is definitely a flavor thing.
For those wondering why she is this color combo
It's not though because she's the best representation of mono blue that there is (currently anyway). Jace should be UR, UB, or UW; he's certainly not mono blue in personality.
Actually, considering Tamiyo generally chooses to be an observer and not a participant in events since she believes that what has happened without her intervention is natural and she should not intervene in it is a very G philosophy. Mono-U has the tendency to just interfere in anything as long as they deem it's an improvement.
She still prays to the Kami on other planes, despite being a planeswalker (which would change a lot of one's perspective if one was living on Kamigawa), not because she believes it will reach the Kami from other planes (she sorta has scientifically proven that by herself already), but she still does it solely out of politeness (and habit I guess). That's her W aspect, although I won't deny that's the weakest color among the 3.
Very few people/planeswalkers are really mono-colored in reality, so I suppose when they decide to make a planeswalker multi-colored due to other planeswalkers using the "slots" of color combinations, they just go down the "color priority" of that character. Tamiyo's seems to be UGWBR, if you asked me.
I was under the impression that it was only a single instance of drawing a card for either of the two creatures dealing damage (I wasn't commenting on the lasting through the next turn part at all). If it triggers on both of them, thus drawing two cards then it's much better.
At first blush, I read it as you can get 0-4 cards, depending on how the damage scenarios play out (1 trigger per creature per damage event). However, you bring up an interesting point that it could be a single trigger. I did a cursory search on gatherer and was unable to find a card with similar templating, so I don't have a precedent to go by to make a definitive judgment. However, I think of this akin to lifelink and Ajani's Pridemate's trigger. Two creatures with lifelink deal combat damage, he gets two triggers because they are both sources that dealt damage and subsequently cause a life gain event. If one of them had first strike, this becomes more evident, as there is a time separation in the two life gain events. The same goes for the draw trigger that Tamiyo is generating. If one of the creatures has first strike, it would deal damage, and you draw a card, then the other deals damage, and you draw a second card. Each damage event draws you a card. Therefore, even if the creatures deal damage simultaneously in combat, you still draw as many cards as there were creatures dealing combat damage.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I was excited for Tamiyo, but this card doesn't have the same aerie feel that the original had. She was a "moon sage" back then. Now she's just your run of the mill tempo and refuel card. She needed to be more controlling, and more about spells. I don't mind the Bant coloring, but just like how Bant Company is predominantly green/white with a blue splash, this Tamiyo feels more green and white than blue.
EDIT: I probably shouldn't say that Tamiyo "feels more green/white than blue", but what I mean is that she shouldn't be so heavily engaged with creatures and combat. For example, this Tamiyo does not jive with her journal.
I was excited for Tamiyo, but this card doesn't have the same aerie feel that the original had. She was a "moon sage" back then. Now she's just your run of the mill tempo and refuel card. She needed to be more controlling, and more about spells. I don't mind the Bant coloring, but just like how Bant Company is predominantly green/white with a blue splash, this Tamiyo feels more green and white than blue.
Draw cards = Blue (Based on creatures = green/white)
Freeze two permanents = Mono Blue
Recall and Omniscience = Mono Blue
Just cause you don't like that her first ability relies on creatures doesn't mean her card is in any way less blue than green and white.
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What lol. Tamiyo embodies blue green perfectly if anything. No way her personality and actions this block signifies her as mono blue. She values natural progression, observance, wisdom, and history.
The white comes in from, well, they'd be story spoilers that we shouldn't be privy to yet so I'm not sure I can say.
Maybe I can say that she drops being an observer for a while to take action for the good of the people and a world not her own. That's white.
This and the old Tamiya are hilariously broken in a super friends Bant deck if you can get Doubling Season to stick
That actually is totally insane synergy-
it's too bad it requires two emblems to pull off
(and anyone I've ever played with quits after the original Tamiyo emblem drops).
I hate it when the group concedes right as things are about to get truly fun.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I was excited for Tamiyo, but this card doesn't have the same aerie feel that the original had. She was a "moon sage" back then. Now she's just your run of the mill tempo and refuel card. She needed to be more controlling, and more about spells. I don't mind the Bant coloring, but just like how Bant Company is predominantly green/white with a blue splash, this Tamiyo feels more green and white than blue.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
You're focusing too much on my last sentence. She's on the "tempo" end of blue in an extreme way. She should have been closer to Ashiok in terms of gameplay style is what I'm saying.
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Hats off to the people who called the WUG colors for her.
Her abilities seem mono-blue to me but Maro explained on his blog she's bant due to developmental constraints, it was that or she wan't in the set, which would have probably raised the pitchforks.
As for the card itself, absolutely bananas. Her +1 is amazing, and while not technically straight-up protection, it does strongly disencourages your opponent from attacking or blocking. If her +1 doesn't stops opponents, well her -2 will surely do. To top it off, her Ultimate does not seems that unrealistic to reach, and even though it's not as game-ending as her previous version, it's still extremely powerful with the appropriate mana sinks.
My only gripe is that she's a nonbo with her journal.
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Off topic - When WOTC gives someone the privilege of spoiling a new PW card, they should provide them with high-res bigger image. Reading this new Tamiyo was a pain. The text is so small.
People are complaining because she is Bant... in a standard where bant is dominating...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
She's very much about leaving things the way they are. Keeping the natural order of things in tact. She's very hands off in her research, not wanting to change anything, just observe and record everything. That is a very WUG personality with blue being primary color.
You mean like all of these? Oh, and you're trying to discredit the mechanic that defined the entire guild on Ravnica for a block to support your need for incessant whining? Seems logical.
Don't really see anyone saying much about Standard. Most can't get past the fact that they don't know how the game mechanics work and what colors can do what but always seem to have an awful strong opinion about it, anyways.
(Also known as Xenphire)
In Sarkhan's defense, in Modern with mana dorks and a turn 3 Doubling Season, he can etb on turn 4, ultimate, then put all the dragonlords into play at the same time alongside all their Fate Reforged counterparts for one of the most lopsided turns imaginable. Sure, I suppose you could manage somehow to instant-speed wrath them all but if not then proceed to game 2.
I'm cool with that, I think the real complaint here is Green and White DO NOT need the help. At least, for me it is. I hope Liliana is a house...
With that said, I do not understand why she has white in her colors. None of her abilities says white, they all say U/G. I guess they could not do a U/G walker after they just had a set with a U/G walker. So they add White to her mana symbol. That would make sense to me.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
It's not though because she's the best representation of mono blue that there is (currently anyway). Jace should be UR, UB, or UW; he's certainly not mono blue in personality.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Intelligence and Wisdom are two very different things.
Haven't you ever played D&D
Conditional however does still apply. Using it on your opponents creatures gives them the option to not attack (which is still good don't get me wrong, but it does remove the card draw). Using it on your own creatures is also conditional on them doing damage. This can be stopped in a number of ways, from removal, first strikers, damage prevention effects, combat prevention effects, or simply not wanting to trade/lose your creature for a fresh card. Not all of those are likely to apply alot of the time making it far less conditional when use of your creatures but it is still conditional even given the idea that a creature is on the board.
Actually, considering Tamiyo generally chooses to be an observer and not a participant in events since she believes that what has happened without her intervention is natural and she should not intervene in it is a very G philosophy. Mono-U has the tendency to just interfere in anything as long as they deem it's an improvement.
She still prays to the Kami on other planes, despite being a planeswalker (which would change a lot of one's perspective if one was living on Kamigawa), not because she believes it will reach the Kami from other planes (she sorta has scientifically proven that by herself already), but she still does it solely out of politeness (and habit I guess). That's her W aspect, although I won't deny that's the weakest color among the 3.
Very few people/planeswalkers are really mono-colored in reality, so I suppose when they decide to make a planeswalker multi-colored due to other planeswalkers using the "slots" of color combinations, they just go down the "color priority" of that character. Tamiyo's seems to be UGWBR, if you asked me.
At first blush, I read it as you can get 0-4 cards, depending on how the damage scenarios play out (1 trigger per creature per damage event). However, you bring up an interesting point that it could be a single trigger. I did a cursory search on gatherer and was unable to find a card with similar templating, so I don't have a precedent to go by to make a definitive judgment. However, I think of this akin to lifelink and Ajani's Pridemate's trigger. Two creatures with lifelink deal combat damage, he gets two triggers because they are both sources that dealt damage and subsequently cause a life gain event. If one of them had first strike, this becomes more evident, as there is a time separation in the two life gain events. The same goes for the draw trigger that Tamiyo is generating. If one of the creatures has first strike, it would deal damage, and you draw a card, then the other deals damage, and you draw a second card. Each damage event draws you a card. Therefore, even if the creatures deal damage simultaneously in combat, you still draw as many cards as there were creatures dealing combat damage.
Funny how her Ultimate can *also* be used to summon Emrakul.
This one is really tough to judge-
she's got good abilities, but the color restriction is a bit much.
Also- is this the first time we've seen a 3-color card in a (recent) "monocolor" setting?
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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EDIT: I probably shouldn't say that Tamiyo "feels more green/white than blue", but what I mean is that she shouldn't be so heavily engaged with creatures and combat. For example, this Tamiyo does not jive with her journal.
Draw cards = Blue (Based on creatures = green/white)
Freeze two permanents = Mono Blue
Recall and Omniscience = Mono Blue
Just cause you don't like that her first ability relies on creatures doesn't mean her card is in any way less blue than green and white.
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The white comes in from, well, they'd be story spoilers that we shouldn't be privy to yet so I'm not sure I can say.
Maybe I can say that she drops being an observer for a while to take action for the good of the people and a world not her own. That's white.
That actually is totally insane synergy-
it's too bad it requires two emblems to pull off
(and anyone I've ever played with quits after the original Tamiyo emblem drops).
I hate it when the group concedes right as things are about to get truly fun.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Draws cards off creatures dealing combat damage.
Taps permanents down, just like the original.
Draws you three cards and gives you Omniscience.
You sure she doesn't feel blue?
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Her abilities seem mono-blue to me but Maro explained on his blog she's bant due to developmental constraints, it was that or she wan't in the set, which would have probably raised the pitchforks.
As for the card itself, absolutely bananas. Her +1 is amazing, and while not technically straight-up protection, it does strongly disencourages your opponent from attacking or blocking. If her +1 doesn't stops opponents, well her -2 will surely do. To top it off, her Ultimate does not seems that unrealistic to reach, and even though it's not as game-ending as her previous version, it's still extremely powerful with the appropriate mana sinks.
My only gripe is that she's a nonbo with her journal.