A big problem with the story now is that the heroes never lose. The entire Dominaria storyline (from Alpha to Apocalypse and to a lesser extent Time Spiral) is full of death, losses and intrigue. Not only that but Urza only succeeded in offing Yawgmoth, not Phyrexia as a whole so it wasn't the same type of victory as "We nuked two titans with Channel + Fireball and everything is fine".
The stories now have no weight.
Elspeth died in theros didn't she?
Elspeth died in the one plane that has an underworld. It's unfortunately likely to not actually be a permanent death.
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Rest in RIP My Signature, I guess. 2015-2016, we hardly knew ye.
Total side note but I like how people are discussing running this over itself.
Well, it has to be said that Kolaghan is clearly better than Kolaghan. Considering what BR decks usually want and how stiff the competition in this guild is, there is no way that I would run Kolaghan over Kolaghan! Kolaghan might make it in as the sixth guild card or so. Kolaghan on the other hand ranks several places below that.
It was so funny to me when they described this as a downgrade to the original Zurgo during the Pax East panel. I was thinking if this is a downgrade, they should really "downgrade" all legendary creatures. Haha.
My deck designing is quite concise at this point:
1. Come up with deck idea
2. Realize this idea is somehow fundamentally similar to another deck I have or that is commonly played in my group
3. Decide I don't want to disassemble one of my existing decks
4. Give up and do nothing
I don't see the point of this new shroud mechanic. It's strictly worse than Hexproof. Threshold is pretty bad too, Delirium is a much better mechanic and probably easier to activate.
Otherwise this card is a pretty neat guy. Dodges removal and grows into a Primal Huntbeast. 3/5
So now we need antigatewatch. Tezzereth, Garruk, Tibalt, Nahiri and Ob Nixilis. Save this s**t.
Yeah...
Ob would never work with Nahiri. She's the one who implanted a hedron in his head and depowered him on Zendikar. About all he'd be interested in when it comes to her is bathing in her blood.
maybe he'll enjoy seeing how far she's fallen and relish how fragile she now is emotionally. Those people tend to be easier to exploit.
and as far as we know even Sorin could not be aware of the nature of the moon as the creation of Avacyn and the helvault happened 4000 years after they trapped the Eldrazi. Quite a long time if Sorin thought that Innistrad needed a failsafe against Eldrazi invasion.
Sorin used a moon fragment as a prison for all of innistrad's evil and this fragment was able to lock up nahiri, griselbrand AND Avacy at the same time (along with a lot of demons). It's not something that you find out from day to night.
If a fragment of the moon could be used as such poweful cage... why not the whole moon?
I think sorin was more worried about not carrying the burden himself.
So now we need antigatewatch. Tezzereth, Garruk, Tibalt, Nahiri and Ob Nixilis. Save this s**t.
Yeah...
Ob would never work with Nahiri. She's the one who implanted a hedron in his head and depowered him on Zendikar. About all he'd be interested in when it comes to her is bathing in her blood.
That is an amazing Liliana artwork. Wish it was full-body.
The writing does suck, and it's not just them emulating the super-hero comic model, but also because sets have to have an explicit mechanical identity. It is a game first, and that will always be priority number-one. Function must come before form. World-flavor is broad and easily applied, but plot is logistically intense, I don't think they want to or can commit so much energy to it.
I'm sure once we complain enough, they'll try harder on the stories.
and as far as we know even Sorin could not be aware of the nature of the moon as the creation of Avacyn and the helvault happened 4000 years after they trapped the Eldrazi. Quite a long time if Sorin thought that Innistrad needed a failsafe against Eldrazi invasion.
Sorin used a moon fragment as a prison for all of innistrad's evil and this fragment was able to lock up nahiri, griselbrand AND Avacy at the same time (along with a lot of demons).
If a fragment of the moon could be used as such poweful cage... why not the whole moon?
I think sorin was more worried about not carrying the burden himself.
Seems like we're missing the real benefit of this moon.
Innistrad now has a place to dump all of its nuclear waste. This cannot be understated enough.
I actually enjoyed the story and have just started trying to read up on all the magic lore. Sadly there doesnt seem to be a place I can find that has a fairly complete library of it as it looks to be across so many mediums.
But yeah, with this story, it was a bit predicted, but thats how a lot of good movies are. It still kept me entertained and wanting to read more. I also am a big fan of the Fantasy genre in general so maybe that is why.
The art... freaking amazing. I've never really been a fan of Lilly, her cards, character, or looks, but this new art is definitely pretty epic.
Edit: I also agree that I'd like to seem some "struggle" on the heros, but it doesnt necessarily have to be an opponent. In this block, Jace's madness was a good example. The strife between lily and gideon in the future would be good.
Seriously though, it's pretty funny to read all this "I'm a rebellious planeswalker, but now I see that the power of friendship is way cool" saturday-morning cartoon show storyline in mtg. I guess as long as the limited game is good, it doesn't bother me much, but it still makes my inner english major cringe to read some of this stuff. Hire me, wizards! I'll write dialogue that doesn't sound like it was written for an episode of G.I. Joe!
I think her logic is reasoned and calculating. She will do anything for power, and she's found she is at her limit with these demons and the chain veil. Don't doubt she would drop the gatewatch in a second if it benefited her. But for now, it is in her interests.
That is an amazing Liliana artwork. Wish it was full-body.
The writing does suck, and it's not just them emulating the super-hero comic model, but also because sets have to have an explicit mechanical identity. It is a game first, and that will always be priority number-one. Function must come before form. World-flavor is broad and easily applied, but plot is logistically intense, I don't think they want to or can commit so much energy to it.
I'm sure once we complain enough, they'll try harder on the stories.
The problem isn't that they aren't trying hard enough, it's that the story has recently come to the forefront and is explicitly driving the card game product. It was fine when the stupid story was a footnote that you could completely ignore unless you went to the website and read the articles. Now, we have this comic book nonsense all over the cards and you can't avoid how lazy and sophomoric it is. The flavour text has taken a particularly sharp decline in quality since Origins.
Liliana is OLD, not young. She uses Magic to keep herself young looking.
Some artists have incorporated this into their depictions. Check out her hands below.
"Liliana is supposed to be over a hundred years old, with her demonic pacts keeping her young, right? Look at her hands. If you ever struggle to know how old someone is in real life, his or her clothing, face, and muscles can fool you. Hands tend to be more truthful about showing someone’s age. That’s an incredible Easter egg by Will."
It would be nice if they always worked this into her art. It's a great touch, communicates important character information, and would help differentiate her (and her motivations) from the others a bit. Since Mike pointed this out in his article, I can't stop looking for it now, basically..
I know a lot of people say the writing sucks now, especially since they started the new linear story telling. But I say give them time. The story telling sucks right now, BECAUSE they put Emrakul in the set, which half the community here was excited about. But how can the storyline be any different than "good guys must band together, defeat giant monster, or world dies" as long as eldrazi are in it? There may have been a point in time where the eldrazi were cool mysterious beings that we wanted to know more about, but at this point they are hollow substance less creatures that prevent any depth or subtlety in a story. So unfortunately we had to sacrifice the storylines of two of the most popular planes ever, on their return blocks no less, to finally end this boring threat, I hope.
I hate the magic story so much, I bet some random literature students could write a better one for a crate of beer.
given the fact that most of the fan base has nothing but flavor text and card art to communicate the story you should give them a break. they do a pretty good job making the basic plot points, characters, and locations known despite having very little room to do so. the whole story has to be streamlined to accommodate this all, as a really complex plot progression or a character with muddled motivations would be hard to convey in a couple quotes and action shots. outside of the novels, which only appeal to a niche group of their larger audience, the story is basically engineered for us to fill in the blanks as much as possible.
if the novels themselves aren't good it's probably because not that many people read them and so it falls low on wizards priority list.
neat, magic the gathering as written by my fourth grade nephew
oh wait. they pay professionals real money to write this drek
i don't actually have a nephew either, but if he wrote something so dog ***** terrible i'd probably suggest that writing may not be the right path for him, or sign up for some writing classes, either way that blurb is ******* laughable.
I know a lot of people say the writing sucks now, especially since they started the new linear story telling. But I say give them time. The story telling sucks right now, BECAUSE they put Emrakul in the set, which half the community here was excited about. But how can the storyline be any different than "good guys must band together, defeat giant monster, or world dies" as long as eldrazi are in it? There may have been a point in time where the eldrazi were cool mysterious beings that we wanted to know more about, but at this point they are hollow substance less creatures that prevent any depth or subtlety in a story. So unfortunately we had to sacrifice the storylines of two of the most popular planes ever, on their return blocks no less, to finally end this boring threat, I hope.
I disagree, the story doesn't suck because of Emrakul, it sucks because the story team are just bad writers who are further hampered by what I'm certain are executive level marketing decisions. There is an article about how many former Wizards employees hated working there as the management was incompetent and petty. Note that shortly after this article was posted a bunch of positive reviews were posted to Glassdoor which certainly isn't suspicious at all.
given the fact that most of the fan base has nothing but flavor text and card art to communicate the story you should give them a break. they do a pretty good job making the basic plot points, characters, and locations known despite having very little room to do so. the whole story has to be streamlined to accommodate this all, as a really complex plot progression or a character with muddled motivations would be hard to convey in a couple quotes and action shots. outside of the novels, which only appeal to a niche group of their larger audience, the story is basically engineered for us to fill in the blanks as much as possible.
if the novels themselves aren't good it's probably because not that many people read them and so it falls low on wizards priority list.
The story articles are awful too. The ones by Doug Beyer, the current senior creative designer, are some of the worst. "Cloak Boy" ughhhhh
Genre fiction, as a whole tends to be for teenagers and people with similar literary standards. I studied lit and it not only ruined trite genre fiction, but many TV shows and films for me...so...badly...written.
Mtg fiction is an embarrassment though. I tried to read some of my old fantasy books and it is humbling to know I read them, as a thirteen year old.
I hate the magic story so much, I bet some random literature students could write a better one for a crate of beer.
The story does suck. But that's partially the nature of episodic story-telling. It's destined to become soap opera-esque, because the story can never end. It's the nature of the medium, not (wholly) the fault of the story-telling team.
I think that for people who actually love real fantasy novels, MTG storytelling is absolute trash.
Disagree. Serial storytelling can be done in an efficient and compelling way. Arthur Conan Doyle's work with Sherlock Holmes basically was serial storytelling, and it was great.
You're thinking too much in mainstream comic books characters where Batman, Superman and WonderWoman can never be truly defeated because they need to stay alive and keep selling comics. Even then, there are a bunch of compelling and excellent story archs in the comics industry. The style of storytelling does not need to bring the quality of it down even an ounce. Besides that, I honestly think mtg is doing better for itself than comics books, because they did kill/changed imporntant characters (Elspeth and Garruk come to mind).
That said, ever since the Gatewatch assembled (no pun intended), we are lacking in the department of impactful changes and deaths in the characters. From BFZ I think the most impactful death was... Lorthos? That really isn't very good. They shouldn't be afraid of changing their characters, even if it isn't about killing them, but we should give more time.
And last but not least: I see everyone complaining about the quality of the writing of a story that they didn't read yet. You may be pissed at the plotline as a whole, but is there sense in bashing something and guessing motives if you didn't even see the justification behind it? I have some real criticism to make to the storyline, especially the way the eldrazi have been mishandled, but I will save that for another thread in the Magic Storyline.
tl,dr: serial storytelling doesn't need to be bad. Wait for the stories to come ou to criticize them.
Ah, and btw: read my 5 suggestions for sequels of Innistrad down in my signature if you're unhappy. None of them have eldrazi and you can vote in your favorite.
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Would you like to read Commander stories? Check my latest stories, coming from Lorwyn and Innistrad: Ghoulcaller Gisa and Doran, The Siege Tower! If you like my writing, ask me to write something for your commander as well!
The text tells you the basics of what happens at the end of Eldritch Moon so don't read if you don't want to know what happens with Emrakul
Are those demons in the background. I certainly hope so. Besides them being black, the wings look more bats than feathered for angels. Giant bats are a thing, i know, but i'm holding out hope for flocks of demons:P
[quote from="Gmiller6 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/721870-art-book-spoilers?comment=91"]I know a lot of people say the writing sucks now, especially since they started the new linear story telling. But I say give them time. The story telling sucks right now, BECAUSE they put Emrakul in the set, which half the community here was excited about. But how can the storyline be any different than "good guys must band together, defeat giant monster, or world dies" as long as eldrazi are in it? There may have been a point in time where the eldrazi were cool mysterious beings that we wanted to know more about, but at this point they are hollow substance less creatures that prevent any depth or subtlety in a story. So unfortunately we had to sacrifice the storylines of two of the most popular planes ever, on their return blocks no less, to finally end this boring threat, I hope.
I disagree, the story doesn't suck because of Emrakul, it sucks because the story team are just bad writers who are further hampered by what I'm certain are executive level marketing decisions. There is an article about how many former Wizards employees hated working there as the management was incompetent and petty. Note that shortly after this article was posted a bunch of positive reviews were posted to Glassdoor which certainly isn't suspicious at all.
Fair enough. I didn't realize that former employees hated it there. I can definitely see company big wigs really screwing up story potential to make it "more marketable" which almost always really means "dumbed down to meet the needs of the lowest common denominator"
Elspeth died in the one plane that has an underworld. It's unfortunately likely to not actually be a permanent death.
Oath of liliana confirmed
Wonder what planeswalker ability card this will give.
If a fragment of the moon could be used as such poweful cage... why not the whole moon?
I think sorin was more worried about not carrying the burden himself.
heh now there'd be an interesting card
The writing does suck, and it's not just them emulating the super-hero comic model, but also because sets have to have an explicit mechanical identity. It is a game first, and that will always be priority number-one. Function must come before form. World-flavor is broad and easily applied, but plot is logistically intense, I don't think they want to or can commit so much energy to it.
I'm sure once we complain enough, they'll try harder on the stories.
Seems like we're missing the real benefit of this moon.
Innistrad now has a place to dump all of its nuclear waste. This cannot be understated enough.
But yeah, with this story, it was a bit predicted, but thats how a lot of good movies are. It still kept me entertained and wanting to read more. I also am a big fan of the Fantasy genre in general so maybe that is why.
The art... freaking amazing. I've never really been a fan of Lilly, her cards, character, or looks, but this new art is definitely pretty epic.
Edit: I also agree that I'd like to seem some "struggle" on the heros, but it doesnt necessarily have to be an opponent. In this block, Jace's madness was a good example. The strife between lily and gideon in the future would be good.
I think her logic is reasoned and calculating. She will do anything for power, and she's found she is at her limit with these demons and the chain veil. Don't doubt she would drop the gatewatch in a second if it benefited her. But for now, it is in her interests.
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The problem isn't that they aren't trying hard enough, it's that the story has recently come to the forefront and is explicitly driving the card game product. It was fine when the stupid story was a footnote that you could completely ignore unless you went to the website and read the articles. Now, we have this comic book nonsense all over the cards and you can't avoid how lazy and sophomoric it is. The flavour text has taken a particularly sharp decline in quality since Origins.
Liliana is OLD, not young. She uses Magic to keep herself young looking.
Some artists have incorporated this into their depictions. Check out her hands below.
"Liliana is supposed to be over a hundred years old, with her demonic pacts keeping her young, right? Look at her hands. If you ever struggle to know how old someone is in real life, his or her clothing, face, and muscles can fool you. Hands tend to be more truthful about showing someone’s age. That’s an incredible Easter egg by Will."
It would be nice if they always worked this into her art. It's a great touch, communicates important character information, and would help differentiate her (and her motivations) from the others a bit. Since Mike pointed this out in his article, I can't stop looking for it now, basically..
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given the fact that most of the fan base has nothing but flavor text and card art to communicate the story you should give them a break. they do a pretty good job making the basic plot points, characters, and locations known despite having very little room to do so. the whole story has to be streamlined to accommodate this all, as a really complex plot progression or a character with muddled motivations would be hard to convey in a couple quotes and action shots. outside of the novels, which only appeal to a niche group of their larger audience, the story is basically engineered for us to fill in the blanks as much as possible.
if the novels themselves aren't good it's probably because not that many people read them and so it falls low on wizards priority list.
oh wait. they pay professionals real money to write this drek
i don't actually have a nephew either, but if he wrote something so dog ***** terrible i'd probably suggest that writing may not be the right path for him, or sign up for some writing classes, either way that blurb is ******* laughable.
I disagree, the story doesn't suck because of Emrakul, it sucks because the story team are just bad writers who are further hampered by what I'm certain are executive level marketing decisions. There is an article about how many former Wizards employees hated working there as the management was incompetent and petty. Note that shortly after this article was posted a bunch of positive reviews were posted to Glassdoor which certainly isn't suspicious at all.
The story articles are awful too. The ones by Doug Beyer, the current senior creative designer, are some of the worst. "Cloak Boy" ughhhhh
That's a big Twinkie
Mtg fiction is an embarrassment though. I tried to read some of my old fantasy books and it is humbling to know I read them, as a thirteen year old.
You're thinking too much in mainstream comic books characters where Batman, Superman and WonderWoman can never be truly defeated because they need to stay alive and keep selling comics. Even then, there are a bunch of compelling and excellent story archs in the comics industry. The style of storytelling does not need to bring the quality of it down even an ounce. Besides that, I honestly think mtg is doing better for itself than comics books, because they did kill/changed imporntant characters (Elspeth and Garruk come to mind).
That said, ever since the Gatewatch assembled (no pun intended), we are lacking in the department of impactful changes and deaths in the characters. From BFZ I think the most impactful death was... Lorthos? That really isn't very good. They shouldn't be afraid of changing their characters, even if it isn't about killing them, but we should give more time.
And last but not least: I see everyone complaining about the quality of the writing of a story that they didn't read yet. You may be pissed at the plotline as a whole, but is there sense in bashing something and guessing motives if you didn't even see the justification behind it? I have some real criticism to make to the storyline, especially the way the eldrazi have been mishandled, but I will save that for another thread in the Magic Storyline.
tl,dr: serial storytelling doesn't need to be bad. Wait for the stories to come ou to criticize them.
Ah, and btw: read my 5 suggestions for sequels of Innistrad down in my signature if you're unhappy. None of them have eldrazi and you can vote in your favorite.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).
Are those demons in the background. I certainly hope so. Besides them being black, the wings look more bats than feathered for angels. Giant bats are a thing, i know, but i'm holding out hope for flocks of demons:P
I disagree, the story doesn't suck because of Emrakul, it sucks because the story team are just bad writers who are further hampered by what I'm certain are executive level marketing decisions. There is an article about how many former Wizards employees hated working there as the management was incompetent and petty. Note that shortly after this article was posted a bunch of positive reviews were posted to Glassdoor which certainly isn't suspicious at all.
Fair enough. I didn't realize that former employees hated it there. I can definitely see company big wigs really screwing up story potential to make it "more marketable" which almost always really means "dumbed down to meet the needs of the lowest common denominator"