I could see getting delirium turn 3 in standard, but I think you are basically turning off turn 1 and 2 just to get them to discard 2 random cards. I think I would rather just have the 2 cards to deal with the opponents threats. This is definitely not up there with Hymm.
Someone mentioned it previously, but I think people are overlooking Sinister Concoction here. Kill a creature and probably get to three if not four card types in your graveyard. Seems solid to me.
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Yep! Would you believe the original was a common? And is way too strong for Standard. I'm surprised this got through.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
I think it's quite possible to have Delirium on turn 3. This will just wreck hands against midrange and control decks. Side them out against aggro and all is gravy.
Anything close to hymn in modern should be playable. This thing can hit lands and throw off curves which is what makes hymn so powerful. Can't speak for standard but this seems lagit in modern.
I think it's quite possible to have Delirium on turn 3. This will just wreck hands against midrange and control decks. Side them out against aggro and all is gravy.
For having played with Hymn in Eternal Masters limited, it was never a dead card even late game, and it was great even if I drew it turn 10 and it took away the 2 cards/removal/threat the opponent was keeping in hand. It won me every game where I played it.
I know Constructed is a faster format but there should still be place to use this even after the first turns but before the opponent is in topdeck mode, while achieving delirium more or less naturally.
Well, and think of this.... when your opponent IS in top deck mode, playing this off a Brain in a Jar is guaranteed to get their card out of their hand.... where any selective discard isn't.
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this is mtgs, where occam's razor is so blunt it can't cut jello any more.
What would it replace? Wrench mind is more consistent, heck even Augur of Skulls is more reliable
You're right, 8 Rack never turns on delirium.
Never said 8Rack doesn't turn on delirium what I'm saying is 8Rack doesn't need a a 2cmc situational card. Thoughtseize into Wrench Mind into Liliana Of the Veil is good enough to wreck your opponents hand.
T2 delirium isn't gonna happen in standard, but MIGHT be feasible to turn this into a modern Hymn.
It's worth is primarily going to be in how quickly delirium can come online.
Delirium is actually not as hard to get online as one might think, I have successfully gotten it online by turn two on a fairly consistent basis. This is quite easy to accomplish. Casting a Hangarback Walker gets two of the requirements out of the way immediately. Cast that first turn along with something like Magmatic Insight you have delirium first turn. I've been waiting for a decent card with delirium to be printed so that it would be worth it to make a deck revolved around it. This card is definitely powerful enough to warrant that I feel.
T2 delirium isn't gonna happen in standard, but MIGHT be feasible to turn this into a modern Hymn.
It's worth is primarily going to be in how quickly delirium can come online.
Delirium is actually not as hard to get online as one might think, I have successfully gotten it online by turn two on a fairly consistent basis. This is quite easy to accomplish. Casting a Hangarback Walker gets two of the requirements out of the way immediately. Cast that first turn along with something like Magmatic Insight you have delirium first turn. I've been waiting for a decent card with delirium to be printed so that it would be worth it to make a deck revolved around it. This card is definitely powerful enough to warrant that I feel.
You really don't want to play a 0/0 hangarback just to have someone discard two cards the next turn. Those are the types of plays that will hurt in the long run.
What would it replace? Wrench mind is more consistent, heck even Augur of Skulls is more reliable
You're right, 8 Rack never turns on delirium.
Never said 8Rack doesn't turn on delirium what I'm saying is 8Rack doesn't need a a 2cmc situational card. Thoughtseize into Wrench Mind into Liliana Of the Veil is good enough to wreck your opponents hand.
I think he means you're literally right. 8Rack doesn't turn on delirium unless something is going terribly wrong.
A lot of 8rack decks have been utilizing Pack rat to turn late game "dead" discard spells into some advantage, while Asylum visitor provides some card advantage while synergizing with pack rat. So 8rack runs enough card types to eventually fulfill the delirium requirements. The concern is that generally you won't be fulfilling the requirement before the point in the game where you'd normally be casting Wrench Mind.
So it's only situationally superior to wrench mind. The question is then whether you'd prefer your opponent to discard two cards of their choice or gambit that they'll randomly discard something precious that was beyond the reach of your targeted discard. How prevalent artifacts are in the metagame comes into play as well. There are a lot of affinity players at my local store, so wrench mind frequently only nets me one card. When facing abundant artifacts, I'd rather take the random card than the artifact of my opponent's choice.
That's why random discard is powerful. It has the potential to hit their lands and essentially end the match before it even begins.
That is why I suggested using both. Pick the Brain first then Whispers second, which will increase the likelihood they throw away any land they may have in hand. I know most people are still using Transgress the Mind because it can be cast earlier but Pick isn't limited to cmc >= 3; in my opinion it is the better choice. Besides, if I am running this type of deck I am going for delirium as quickly as possible so that I can remove all copies of whatever threat I find from their hand, their library, and their graveyard.
T2 delirium isn't gonna happen in standard, but MIGHT be feasible to turn this into a modern Hymn.
It's worth is primarily going to be in how quickly delirium can come online.
Modern:
T1: Crack fetchland, bolt your opponent, cast Hangarback walker for zero, forcing it to die and go to the graveyard. That makes land, instant, artefact, creature (only card types matter, not numbers of cards).
Then what? We just used three cards to set up one, and while it could be backbreaking, I doubt it will be consistent enough to become a big deal in Modern unless we find better ways to enable it.
T2 delirium isn't gonna happen in standard, but MIGHT be feasible to turn this into a modern Hymn.
It's worth is primarily going to be in how quickly delirium can come online.
Delirium is actually not as hard to get online as one might think, I have successfully gotten it online by turn two on a fairly consistent basis. This is quite easy to accomplish. Casting a Hangarback Walker gets two of the requirements out of the way immediately. Cast that first turn along with something like Magmatic Insight you have delirium first turn. I've been waiting for a decent card with delirium to be printed so that it would be worth it to make a deck revolved around it. This card is definitely powerful enough to warrant that I feel.
T2 delirium isn't gonna happen in standard, but MIGHT be feasible to turn this into a modern Hymn.
It's worth is primarily going to be in how quickly delirium can come online.
Modern:
T1: Crack fetchland, bolt your opponent, cast Hangarback walker for zero, forcing it to die and go to the graveyard. That makes land, instant, artefact, creature (only card types matter, not numbers of cards).
I fully understand that delirium CAN be active by in time for T2, but the big thing is if how you do so is worth it. Dumping Hangerback for 0 is a terrible play just to get delirium, even for hymn.
A modern deck going: t1 Fetch->Faithless Looting setting up delirium however is a far more reasonable play, as it doesn't waste resources purely for delirium with no value for the play itself.
Early delirium in standard of the back of cards like the vessels, or cards like churn or the new grapple with the past is very worth it. A t3,4, or even 5 hymn in standard is still crushing, and doesn't require wasting cards just to get a type in the grave. Delirium is getting alot of good payout for a deck like GB delirium between this, Mindwrack Demon, and maybe the new Emmy.
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All fair points. I suppose I was so caught up in solving how you could activate Delirium as early as possible that I didn't stop to consider whether you might actually WANT to do so!
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My 720 Peasant Cube
Yep! Would you believe the original was a common? And is way too strong for Standard. I'm surprised this got through.
On phasing:
This card may not be a staple four-of in every format, but I expect it to randomly show up in decklists forever.
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BG delirium ramping into Emrakul, the Promised End looks promising.
WBC Eldrazi & Taxes CBW
UR Keep on Cantripin' (UR Phoenix) RU
WU Surprise! It's not UW Control! (UW Midrange) UW
BG The Rock, Straight BG
U Mono-Blue Fish U
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RG Rabble! Rabble! (GR Blood Moon Aggro) GR
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You're right, 8 Rack never turns on delirium.
Yep
The same can be said for
UR and GR
I know Constructed is a faster format but there should still be place to use this even after the first turns but before the opponent is in topdeck mode, while achieving delirium more or less naturally.
Instant, sorcery and... Uh. Not that it matters, 8 rack is marginally playable.
Delirium is actually not as hard to get online as one might think, I have successfully gotten it online by turn two on a fairly consistent basis. This is quite easy to accomplish. Casting a Hangarback Walker gets two of the requirements out of the way immediately. Cast that first turn along with something like Magmatic Insight you have delirium first turn. I've been waiting for a decent card with delirium to be printed so that it would be worth it to make a deck revolved around it. This card is definitely powerful enough to warrant that I feel.
You really don't want to play a 0/0 hangarback just to have someone discard two cards the next turn. Those are the types of plays that will hurt in the long run.
I think he means you're literally right. 8Rack doesn't turn on delirium unless something is going terribly wrong.
Pick the brain can't hit lands.
That's why random discard is powerful. It has the potential to hit their lands and essentially end the match before it even begins.
8-Rack already runs instants, sorceries, artifacts, enchantments, Liliana of the Veil, and Raven's Crime. Smallpox can get you up to 3/4 of the way on its own.
So it's only situationally superior to wrench mind. The question is then whether you'd prefer your opponent to discard two cards of their choice or gambit that they'll randomly discard something precious that was beyond the reach of your targeted discard. How prevalent artifacts are in the metagame comes into play as well. There are a lot of affinity players at my local store, so wrench mind frequently only nets me one card. When facing abundant artifacts, I'd rather take the random card than the artifact of my opponent's choice.
That is why I suggested using both. Pick the Brain first then Whispers second, which will increase the likelihood they throw away any land they may have in hand. I know most people are still using Transgress the Mind because it can be cast earlier but Pick isn't limited to cmc >= 3; in my opinion it is the better choice. Besides, if I am running this type of deck I am going for delirium as quickly as possible so that I can remove all copies of whatever threat I find from their hand, their library, and their graveyard.
T1: Crack fetchland, bolt your opponent, cast Hangarback walker for zero, forcing it to die and go to the graveyard. That makes land, instant, artefact, creature (only card types matter, not numbers of cards).
T2: Hymn to … I mean, Whispers of Emrakul with delirium.
My 720 Peasant Cube
I fully understand that delirium CAN be active by in time for T2, but the big thing is if how you do so is worth it. Dumping Hangerback for 0 is a terrible play just to get delirium, even for hymn.
A modern deck going: t1 Fetch->Faithless Looting setting up delirium however is a far more reasonable play, as it doesn't waste resources purely for delirium with no value for the play itself.
Early delirium in standard of the back of cards like the vessels, or cards like churn or the new grapple with the past is very worth it. A t3,4, or even 5 hymn in standard is still crushing, and doesn't require wasting cards just to get a type in the grave. Delirium is getting alot of good payout for a deck like GB delirium between this, Mindwrack Demon, and maybe the new Emmy.
URGRiku, Sorcerer SupremeGRU
Who needs permanents anyways?
WUBRGDeckbuilder's ToolboxGRBUW
Warning:Contents include 34 decks and growing