Wait, doesn't this card completely violate the reserved list? They've said even colorshifted functional reprint stuff they wouldn't do. What's up?
Just checked the official policy and it doesn't mention color. This card will go from being the worst card in the block to the best if it is indeed a herald of color shifted reserved list cards being printed.
I'm all for that personally but MaRo has stated that color shifting 'violates the spirit of the reserved list' and so does functional reprinting. This is both.
The "spirit" isn't really violating the actual list though, that's just him saying "We're scared to get too close" as we've seen with Reverberate.
In this case this card says "target opponent" while Donate says "target player", which may make it just outside the "spirit" of the Reserved List and makes this not a functional reprint as you can not give your cards to teammates.
Or, if we're lucky, this might be them tearing the Reserved List down slightly, but that is highly unlikely.
Well the thing is with Donate is if you steal something you can donate it to yourself. With this red card you can't. Yeah that may be an odd case but you have that option. This red card just gives crap away.
I'm curious though if there will be some sort of card in this set that will be worth giving away. Cuz it will be pretty crappy pulling this in limited and you gotta depending on that mythic Red angel to make it work.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
In this case this card says "target opponent" while Donate says "target player", which may make it just outside the "spirit" of the Reserved List and makes this not a functional reprint as you can not give your cards to teammates.
Well the thing is with Donate is if you steal something you can donate it to yourself. With this red card you can't. Yeah that may be an odd case but you have that option. This red card just gives crap away.
Or, if we're lucky, this might be them tearing the Reserved List down slightly, but that is highly unlikely.
Well the thing is with Donate is if you steal something you can donate it to yourself. With this red card you can't. Yeah that may be an odd case but you have that option. This red card just gives crap away.
Here's the thing. This deal about 'Donate is fringe better in multiplayer and fringe target-self scenario' is minuscule.
In fact, the 'target opponent' clause arguably makes the card better when you consider the major general intention of a deck built around exploiting the card.
How? Well because the attempt to change controller of a suicidal card can be thwarted by a whole family of effects like Reverberate or Commandeer.
This family of card effects is much less fringe than the friendly multiplayer situation brought up, and has much greater competitive consequence.
Competitive value of cards by the way is what drives the monetary value. And even if Reverberate effects are fringe, they are much more relevant to the card's value competitively.
Imagine if they printed this card.
Ancestry's Call G
Instant
You draw three cards.
It's better than Ancestral Recall for pretty much the same reasons Harmless Offering is better than Donate.
You can Ancestral Recall a teammate in 2HG vintage, after all. So it's totally different, right?
Based on the precedent of Harmless Offering, they are free to do stuff like this. And that's HUGE.
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
The problem with defining this format by what is "fun" is that everyone seems to define fun as what they don't lose to. If you keep losing to easily answered cards, that means you should improve your deck. If you don't want to improve your deck, then you should come to peace with the idea that you are going to lose because you chose to not interact with better strategies.
anyone else freaking out over the art???? to heck with this i can't take this i want nothing so pure and sweet to be a part of such a horrible plane full of horrors. this isn't fair i wan't a proverbial refund.
Respectively, those (1) don't scale all that impressively in EDH, (2) don't work any more because of the oracle wording, and (3) don't work any more because of the change to the commander rules.
So...bad examples.
Imo only bad zedruu decks run must-donate cards. I'd much rather give away a moat, pendrell mists, divine presence, etc. which are still useful if I can't keep zedruu on the field.
In this case this card says "target opponent" while Donate says "target player", which may make it just outside the "spirit" of the Reserved List and makes this not a functional reprint as you can not give your cards to teammates.
Well the thing is with Donate is if you steal something you can donate it to yourself. With this red card you can't. Yeah that may be an odd case but you have that option. This red card just gives crap away.
Or, if we're lucky, this might be them tearing the Reserved List down slightly, but that is highly unlikely.
Well the thing is with Donate is if you steal something you can donate it to yourself. With this red card you can't. Yeah that may be an odd case but you have that option. This red card just gives crap away.
Here's the thing. This deal about 'Donate is fringe better in multiplayer and fringe target-self scenario' is minuscule.
In fact, the 'target opponent' clause arguably makes the card better when you consider the major general intention of a deck built around exploiting the card.
How? Well because the attempt to change controller of a suicidal card can be thwarted by a whole family of effects like Reverberate or Commandeer.
This family of card effects is much less fringe than the friendly multiplayer situation brought up, and has much greater competitive consequence.
Competitive value of cards by the way is what drives the monetary value. And even if Reverberate effects are fringe, they are much more relevant to the card's value competitively.
Imagine if they printed this card.
Ancestry's Call G
Instant
You draw three cards.
It's better than Ancestral Recall for pretty much the same reasons Harmless Offering is better than Donate.
You can Ancestral Recall a teammate in 2HG vintage, after all. So it's totally different, right?
Based on the precedent of Harmless Offering, they are free to do stuff like this. And that's HUGE.
So you're making a point of my miniscule point against mine... ok. There hasn't been a copy target spell at instant speed for a while. At least one that you can use against opponent's spells. Either stuff you control already geistblast or just make a copy with the same controller meletis charlatan
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To the people that say that a card needs to be a higher rarity because of Limited... I hate you guys so much. I present to you with this.
They're probably just willing to skirt close to the edge of the Reserve List in this case because the original is a comparatively-worthless card to begin with.
So I was curious to see if anyone had bothered MaRo about this yet, and searched the Blogatog for Donate. The results: a page full of posts about how he will never reprint the card (the effect, possibly, but not the card), regardless of reserve list. Enjoy.
There hasn't been a copy target spell at instant speed for a while. At least one that you can use against opponent's spells. Either stuff you control already geistblast or just make a copy with the same controller meletis charlatan
All of these spells interact favorably with an opposing Donate, and by comparison unfavorably with an opposing Harmless Offering.
These cards are more relevant for affecting the price of a card than casual multiplayer game applications. Especially if the listed cards also answer for example a popular burn strategy in the same metagame.
It does matter. It is significant when you can inch out higher win rates as a result of a technicality.
They're probably just willing to skirt close to the edge of the Reserve List in this case because the original is a comparatively-worthless card to begin with.
Many hardcore collectors would see that as a slippery slope.
"What's next?"
Blue Abeyance with 'target opponent' instead of target player?
Black Anaba Spirit Crafter with 'Minotaur creatures you control get +1/+0'?
White Apocalypse with 'As an additional cost to cast Apocalypse, discard your hand'? Cursed Scroll, 'deals 2 damage to target creature or opponent?' (Now the value's going up a little.) Dream Halls sans 'shares a color' clause Candelabra of Tawnos with 'Untap up to X target lands'?
All cards on the reserved list are on the reserved list together. They are on the same list.
The individual cards do not hold equal value, but the list should mean the same for every card included.
Consider also that some collectors may acquire higher quantities of cheaper reserved cards instead of a moderately expensive reserved card. Some hardcore collectors out there may have binders full of 'comparatively worthless' reserved cards like Covetous Dragon or Masticore, or Metalworker.
The point of the Reserved List is to support those cards holding and/or gaining value, and protect those cards from losing value in the future.
To that end, Harmless Offering is already the most significant card in this entire set.
R&D must be aware of this, and with that in mind doesn't the name of the card strike anyone else as a little coy?
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
You heard it folks, it's not about playing a better game, it's about fellating collector egos and keeping to technicalities.
Every way to print useful effects from cards in the resserve list that does not break the LETTER of the policy, must be taken, and the designers who push them through must be rewarded.
R&D must be aware of this, and with that in mind doesn't the name of the card strike anyone else as a little coy?
This is the best interpretation of the title so far. Makes one think about the artwork: 'I hope this doesn't come around and bites us in our own tail.'
donate reads "target player gains control of"
harmless offering reads: "target opponent gains control of"
although it seems at first to be a functional reprint of donate, you cannot say, steal a creature with act of treason and then permanently keep it with Harmless.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
If there isn't one now that transforms when donated to an opponent into some Eldrazi Cat that's a liability to its controller...
The "spirit" isn't really violating the actual list though, that's just him saying "We're scared to get too close" as we've seen with Reverberate.
In this case this card says "target opponent" while Donate says "target player", which may make it just outside the "spirit" of the Reserved List and makes this not a functional reprint as you can not give your cards to teammates.
Or, if we're lucky, this might be them tearing the Reserved List down slightly, but that is highly unlikely.
I'm curious though if there will be some sort of card in this set that will be worth giving away. Cuz it will be pretty crappy pulling this in limited and you gotta depending on that mythic Red angel to make it work.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Zedruu-esque, sure. Going into a zedruu deck? Never in a million years.
Also I don't think that artist knows how to draw a cat.
Also this wins the "rare I least want to open in limited" award.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
I actually want them to reprint that card in this set. :3
Mark my words, the Year of Eldrazi will not be the last we see of them.
RGUCascade Cascade -- When you want to put a Roil Elemental into play before a Boundless Realms is cast...RGU
I have a feeling the foil is going to be expensive just because of the art.
Here's the thing. This deal about 'Donate is fringe better in multiplayer and fringe target-self scenario' is minuscule.
In fact, the 'target opponent' clause arguably makes the card better when you consider the major general intention of a deck built around exploiting the card.
How? Well because the attempt to change controller of a suicidal card can be thwarted by a whole family of effects like Reverberate or Commandeer.
This family of card effects is much less fringe than the friendly multiplayer situation brought up, and has much greater competitive consequence.
Competitive value of cards by the way is what drives the monetary value. And even if Reverberate effects are fringe, they are much more relevant to the card's value competitively.
Imagine if they printed this card.
Ancestry's Call G
Instant
You draw three cards.
It's better than Ancestral Recall for pretty much the same reasons Harmless Offering is better than Donate.
You can Ancestral Recall a teammate in 2HG vintage, after all. So it's totally different, right?
Based on the precedent of Harmless Offering, they are free to do stuff like this. And that's HUGE.
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Really? I've never been particularly interested in keeping my Illusions of Grandeur, Thought Lash or Celestial Dawn. I'm more than happy to have a secondary donate to ship those off.
Want to be a better Magic player? Read the rulings forum and check out the comprehensive rules!
AW BUT WHO CARES, IT'S SO CUTE!
Because it says "target opponent gains control" instead of "target player gains control," it technically isn't a functional reprint.
So...bad examples.
Imo only bad zedruu decks run must-donate cards. I'd much rather give away a moat, pendrell mists, divine presence, etc. which are still useful if I can't keep zedruu on the field.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
So you're making a point of my miniscule point against mine... ok. There hasn't been a copy target spell at instant speed for a while. At least one that you can use against opponent's spells. Either stuff you control already geistblast or just make a copy with the same controller meletis charlatan
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SY8h2vp5Xis
Its right foot is a bit manky also.
Don't make a fuss about it, there are a lot of harmless, inexpensive cards in the RL that we could use in colorshifted glory.
AEthersnatch
Commandeer
Curse of Echoes
Dualcaster Mage
Hivemind
Mirror Sheen
Odds (Odds / Ends)
Psychic Rebuttal
Redirect
Sigil Tracer
Split Decision
Twincast
Wild Ricochet
All of these spells interact favorably with an opposing Donate, and by comparison unfavorably with an opposing Harmless Offering.
These cards are more relevant for affecting the price of a card than casual multiplayer game applications. Especially if the listed cards also answer for example a popular burn strategy in the same metagame.
It does matter. It is significant when you can inch out higher win rates as a result of a technicality.
Many hardcore collectors would see that as a slippery slope.
"What's next?"
Blue Abeyance with 'target opponent' instead of target player?
Black Anaba Spirit Crafter with 'Minotaur creatures you control get +1/+0'?
White Apocalypse with 'As an additional cost to cast Apocalypse, discard your hand'?
Cursed Scroll, 'deals 2 damage to target creature or opponent?' (Now the value's going up a little.)
Dream Halls sans 'shares a color' clause
Candelabra of Tawnos with 'Untap up to X target lands'?
All cards on the reserved list are on the reserved list together. They are on the same list.
The individual cards do not hold equal value, but the list should mean the same for every card included.
Consider also that some collectors may acquire higher quantities of cheaper reserved cards instead of a moderately expensive reserved card. Some hardcore collectors out there may have binders full of 'comparatively worthless' reserved cards like Covetous Dragon or Masticore, or Metalworker.
The point of the Reserved List is to support those cards holding and/or gaining value, and protect those cards from losing value in the future.
To that end, Harmless Offering is already the most significant card in this entire set.
R&D must be aware of this, and with that in mind doesn't the name of the card strike anyone else as a little coy?
"OH GOD MY BRAIN IS EXPLOADING AT HOW BAD THE ART IS ON MY OWN CARD"
-A friend's first impression of Ancestral Recall
10/10, I tapped.
Every way to print useful effects from cards in the resserve list that does not break the LETTER of the policy, must be taken, and the designers who push them through must be rewarded.
This is the best interpretation of the title so far. Makes one think about the artwork: 'I hope this doesn't come around and bites us in our own tail.'
harmless offering reads: "target opponent gains control of"
although it seems at first to be a functional reprint of donate, you cannot say, steal a creature with act of treason and then permanently keep it with Harmless.
Just *once*,
it would be nice to see Red steal something from a color that isn't Blue.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW