nope. if one of the targets of a life exchange is not there anymore when it resolves (since the frog is a completly new creature) it fizzles and nothing happens.
the only thin you could do is to lower the life of the tree to 1 someway different, and than twitch it with the opponent. that would work.
This is incorrect.
At no point does a creature targeted by Turn to Frog leave the battlefield or otherwise become a new game object.
If you activate Tree of Perdition, then Turn to Frog targeting it, it will become a 1/1 with no abilities. The Tree's ability will then resolve, and use its current toughness of 1.
nope. if one of the targets of a life exchange is not there anymore when it resolves (since the frog is a completly new creature) it fizzles and nothing happens.
the only thin you could do is to lower the life of the tree to 1 someway different, and than twitch it with the opponent. that would work.
Turn to Frog does not make the creature a new object. You're correct that killing the tree in response will prevent the exchange from happening; blinking it would make it a new creature and no exchange would happen, but Turn to Frog is just altering its P/T. Removing its ability once it's already on the stack doesn't do anything.
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If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
those saying it'll be great in edh... wtf game are you playing? it'll die before it does anything almost every single time. its okay in a super *****ty casual build if you can get it into the yard with necrotic ooze having been out already, or maybe if you give it haste... and uh... can already swing for lethal? toughness matters decks? basically any time this thing isn't eating a wrath or removal, you've already got your edh game locked up and don't need it. basically, if you can kill me by making my life total 13, i had already lost the game. if you can't kill me after using this thing's ability, i don't care because i'll just combo out on my turn or something.
its fun and flavorful, but its not really as great in edh as you think.
wtf game are YOU playing? If I corpse dance this tree with Ayli out, isn't that kind of good?
not really. you still have to kill me. if you can kill me with 13 damage in one go, you're already winning that game.
Grim Contest makes it pretty much an auto-kill spell. Scourge of Skola Vale can eat the Tree after the life total has been swapped, plus it has trample. Put a Fruit of the First Tree on it so that when it dies, you gain a lot of life and draw way too many cards. Kin-Tree Invocation can make a big dude with it. Last one I could find that worked well with it, Feed the Pack is easily one of the best cards to use with it as the wolves it will make will be enough to kill multiple players, even in EDH.
These are in addition to the other great parings people noted in this thread already.
[quote from="Xcric »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/719637-tree-of-perdition-magic-mics-spoiler?comment=84"]neat. nice flavor i guess.
Phenax disagrees after tree mills you for 13-40.
...uh... go for it?
a lot of decks use the yard as a toolbox already. it still has to tap to activate, meaning a full turn in most cases for it to die to a board wipe, or spot removal, or you know, get ignored because life total is irrelevant unless you've got lethal already, and mill is irrelevant unless you get rid of every single combo piece. yeah yeah, but leyline of the void! hoops. you have to jump through hoops and it doesn't end the game immediately. overrated junk bin mythic, just like the first tree, which many people were saying would be great in edh because it could consistently reset your life total to avoid losing. seriously, this thing is flavorful but won't see play in all but the casualest of casual edh decks.
It's unfortunate this took up a black mythic slot, too. This set isn't looking very promising if all we get are these gimmicky tricks.
T1 - Land
T2 - Land+Ayli
T3 - Land+Vizkopa Guildmage
T4 - Land+Tree of Redemption
T5 - Vizkopa+Ayli Abilities, tap and kill the entire table
This is assuming zero ramp like Sol Ring and friends, it could easily be done faster and with more protection. May not be super competitive but will definitely take games in casual. Not too bad of a combo on later turns with how many gain/drain effects are in the game.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Really surprised no one mentioned Heartless Summoning. The -1/-1 actually works in your favor.
While I really like this card, it suffers from that 'no-redundancy' problem. If your deck revolves around this but it gets extracted or something, then the deck falls apart.
I might slot this in my marchesa reanimator EDH because it runs a bunch of haste effects. This tree with haste is kind of terrifying, although at least it can only drop one player to 13 (cuz then its toughness will be 36 or whatever)
A hasty death tree is a pretty bizarre concept.
A completely different use of this in EDH is just to mess with people's life totals hilariously, kind of like a soul conduit that doesn't cost a billion mana
those saying it'll be great in edh... wtf game are you playing? it'll die before it does anything almost every single time. its okay in a super *****ty casual build if you can get it into the yard with necrotic ooze having been out already, or maybe if you give it haste... and uh... can already swing for lethal? toughness matters decks? basically any time this thing isn't eating a wrath or removal, you've already got your edh game locked up and don't need it. basically, if you can kill me by making my life total 13, i had already lost the game. if you can't kill me after using this thing's ability, i don't care because i'll just combo out on my turn or something.
its fun and flavorful, but its not really as great in edh as you think.
Not all EDH playgroups are super competitive and push tuned decks, fun and flavorful EDH decks are a definite thing.
those saying it'll be great in edh... wtf game are you playing? it'll die before it does anything almost every single time. its okay in a super *****ty casual build if you can get it into the yard with necrotic ooze having been out already, or maybe if you give it haste... and uh... can already swing for lethal? toughness matters decks? basically any time this thing isn't eating a wrath or removal, you've already got your edh game locked up and don't need it. basically, if you can kill me by making my life total 13, i had already lost the game. if you can't kill me after using this thing's ability, i don't care because i'll just combo out on my turn or something.
its fun and flavorful, but its not really as great in edh as you think.
What EDH deck is not running lightning greaves?
As for the whole Necrotic Ooze thing, The Gitrog Monster Combo says Hi...
Oh and Doran decks tend to run Asceticim and the freedom who gives your dudes indestructible... so yeah. Dies to removal argument is weeak
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I might slot this in my marchesa reanimator EDH because it runs a bunch of haste effects. This tree with haste is kind of terrifying, although at least it can only drop one player to 13 (cuz then its toughness will be 36 or whatever)
A hasty death tree is a pretty bizarre concept.
A completely different use of this in EDH is just to mess with people's life totals hilariously, kind of like a soul conduit that doesn't cost a billion mana
If you have a no lifegain effect like Erebos out, you would just need to be able to activate Tree twice. The first time drops them to 13, the second time they can't be raised up, so they stay at 13 while the Tree reclaims its initial toughness. And then you just need to repeat that on other players.
If your play group allows this they deserve all that they get.
You either can abuse it and make it "tap = win" or it is at the very least an effect that blocks and sets the opponents life total to 13, which is allready "fine" in many cases.
Quite the slam-dunk card.
Its potentially very dangerous if theres a combo with it that simply turns the card in a "you-are-dead"-button.
T1: Breeding Pool > Noble Hierarch
T2: Overgrown Tomb > Swiftfoot Boots > Dork
T3: Land > exile simian spirit guide > Tree > equip boots > tap tree > diminish tree > gut shot
No matter if this card is gimmicky or not.
The fact that there IS a 2 card "I-win" combo in standard, in the same colours no less, is something to take serious.
Last time that happened, was when splinter twin was legal in standard.
I am at least certain that most pro's will have a look if it can be broken before the PT starts.
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This is incorrect.
At no point does a creature targeted by Turn to Frog leave the battlefield or otherwise become a new game object.
If you activate Tree of Perdition, then Turn to Frog targeting it, it will become a 1/1 with no abilities. The Tree's ability will then resolve, and use its current toughness of 1.
A Dying Wish
To Rise Again
Chainer, Dementia Master
Muldrotha, the Gravetide
Atraxa, Praetors' Voice
Turn to Frog does not make the creature a new object. You're correct that killing the tree in response will prevent the exchange from happening; blinking it would make it a new creature and no exchange would happen, but Turn to Frog is just altering its P/T. Removing its ability once it's already on the stack doesn't do anything.
If your question is "What would a judge do is this situation?", only one person's answer is relevant, and that is the Head Judge at your event. I can quote the rules, but I don't know your HJ.
not really. you still have to kill me. if you can kill me with 13 damage in one go, you're already winning that game.
These are in addition to the other great parings people noted in this thread already.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
It's unfortunate this took up a black mythic slot, too. This set isn't looking very promising if all we get are these gimmicky tricks.
T1 - Land
T2 - Land+Ayli
T3 - Land+Vizkopa Guildmage
T4 - Land+Tree of Redemption
T5 - Vizkopa+Ayli Abilities, tap and kill the entire table
This is assuming zero ramp like Sol Ring and friends, it could easily be done faster and with more protection. May not be super competitive but will definitely take games in casual. Not too bad of a combo on later turns with how many gain/drain effects are in the game.
For extra flavor, play with Foul Orchard.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
What I don't get is why hardly anyone has mentioned Vhati il-Dal as a commander that would love this card.
If the tree is dead, there is no exchange. (the you cannot make a partial exchange rule)
3 life should not be too hard to deal with though
While I really like this card, it suffers from that 'no-redundancy' problem. If your deck revolves around this but it gets extracted or something, then the deck falls apart.
.
A hasty death tree is a pretty bizarre concept.
A completely different use of this in EDH is just to mess with people's life totals hilariously, kind of like a soul conduit that doesn't cost a billion mana
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Not all EDH playgroups are super competitive and push tuned decks, fun and flavorful EDH decks are a definite thing.
What EDH deck is not running lightning greaves?
As for the whole Necrotic Ooze thing, The Gitrog Monster Combo says Hi...
Oh and Doran decks tend to run Asceticim and the freedom who gives your dudes indestructible... so yeah. Dies to removal argument is weeak
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
If your play group allows this they deserve all that they get.
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
You either can abuse it and make it "tap = win" or it is at the very least an effect that blocks and sets the opponents life total to 13, which is allready "fine" in many cases.
Quite the slam-dunk card.
Its potentially very dangerous if theres a combo with it that simply turns the card in a "you-are-dead"-button.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
T1: Breeding Pool > Noble Hierarch
T2: Overgrown Tomb > Swiftfoot Boots > Dork
T3: Land > exile simian spirit guide > Tree > equip boots > tap tree > diminish tree > gut shot
A full 10 exact cards for a modern T3 kill
The fact that there IS a 2 card "I-win" combo in standard, in the same colours no less, is something to take serious.
Last time that happened, was when splinter twin was legal in standard.
I am at least certain that most pro's will have a look if it can be broken before the PT starts.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions