Even if the backlash against Eldrazi in Eldritch Moon was absolute, 100% there they wouldn't have any way to change Kaladesh if it featured Eldrazi. It's already well past design and at best has some development left, but it's not nearly enough time to completely alter the creative elements or design, best they could do is weaken the Eldrazi enough that they aren't playable (which really wouldn't be a good solution either). Coax from the Blind Eternities just feels like them doing a card that fit the story they were telling, and wouldn't really be told anywhere else (in all likelihood at least), I don't see it foretelling any more Eldrazi really.
I wasn't talking about Kaladesh. I was talking about the set right after Kaladesh. With a 3 block standard rotation the set after Kaladesh could have had Eldrazi that they might pull out because of the backlash, and fits my thinking for Coax from the Blind Eternities appearing in this set.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Even if the backlash against Eldrazi in Eldritch Moon was absolute, 100% there they wouldn't have any way to change Kaladesh if it featured Eldrazi. It's already well past design and at best has some development left, but it's not nearly enough time to completely alter the creative elements or design, best they could do is weaken the Eldrazi enough that they aren't playable (which really wouldn't be a good solution either). Coax from the Blind Eternities just feels like them doing a card that fit the story they were telling, and wouldn't really be told anywhere else (in all likelihood at least), I don't see it foretelling any more Eldrazi really.
I wasn't talking about Kaladesh. I was talking about the set right after Kaladesh. With a 3 block standard rotation the set after Kaladesh could have had Eldrazi that they might pull out because of the backlash, and fits my thinking for Coax from the Blind Eternities appearing in this set.
I still don't agree with that reasoning. Sometimes cards get printed in sets because they make sense for that set, not everything has to be a reference to future or past sets. Moonmist is a great example of that, it means just about nothing to the sets before and after it. Coax from the Blind Eternities may have some significance due to the last set, but that doesn't mean it has to mean anything for Kaladesh.
Note that I'm not saying they will absolutely not have Eldrazi in Kaladesh, just that the existence of one card doesn't mean anything regarding future sets, especially when there is more than enough Eldrazi right now for Coax to be relevant.
... but that doesn't mean it has to mean anything for Kaladesh.
Note that I'm not saying they will absolutely not have Eldrazi in Kaladesh, just that the existence of one card doesn't mean anything regarding future sets, especially when there is more than enough Eldrazi right now for Coax to be relevant.
Once again - I'm talking about the block after Kaladesh (Barrel//Laughs) I can pretty much guarantee that there won't be any Eldrazi in Kaladesh.
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... but that doesn't mean it has to mean anything for Kaladesh.
Note that I'm not saying they will absolutely not have Eldrazi in Kaladesh, just that the existence of one card doesn't mean anything regarding future sets, especially when there is more than enough Eldrazi right now for Coax to be relevant.
Once again - I'm talking about the block after Kaladesh (Barrel//Laughs)
And I get that. But I don't see any reason why the existence of a card has to mean anything about the existence of a block that isn't coming out for close to another year. Yes, it'll still be in Standard, but that doesn't mean that Barrel//Laughs is going to have Eldrazi. So I'm still trying to grasp why you think it will be. My answer doesn't change based off of whether it's Kaladesh or future block we don't know about yet, the reasoning is the same.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
I was worried that EMN would be Rise of the Eldrazi all over again, and that's why I didn't want the big bad to wind up being Emrakul (despite all the evidence).
...
This is by far NOT Rise of the Eldrazi all over again. The only thing that comes close are the Eldrazi with Emerge, and even that has the flavour of things turning into cosmic horrors.
Yeah you're right, this isn't Rise all over again.
It is New Phyrexia all over again.
At least Ulamog fit a different flavor space than the Phyrexians. Emrakul doesn't.
This is the exact same story as New Phyrexia. Plane gets overrun by otherworldy horrors. Friends are transformed into abominations as the remnants of the uncorrupted population fight for survival, aided by planeswalkers.
At least Ulamog gave off a Galactucus vibe. I'm not getting the "feed" vibe from Ekrakul. Just a "corrupt and enslave" one, even more so than in Zendikar.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
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Rose tint my world, keep me safe from my trouble and pain.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
But then it won't have the authentic "transformation" feeling that you get from conventional double face cards.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
Give it Morph and you've a 5 sided card.
DFC can't be morphed. They can be manifested but they can only be morphed up if they are a creature on the front. Ixidron does nothing to DFC's, sadly....
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Mark my words, the Year of Eldrazi will not be the last we see of them.
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
Give it Morph and you've a 5 sided card.
DFC can't be morphed. They can be manifested but they can only be morphed up if they are a creature on the front. Ixidron does nothing to DFC's, sadly....
They can be manifested though!
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Can you name all of the creature types with at least 20 cards? Try my Sporcle Quiz! Last Updated: 6/29/20 (Core Set 2021).
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
Give it Morph and you've a 5 sided card.
DFC can't be morphed. They can be manifested but they can only be morphed up if they are a creature on the front. Ixidron does nothing to DFC's, sadly....
They can be manifested though!
If a DFC is to be forced face down, couldn't you just take the checklist card to represent the face down card? If an outside card is used to represent a DFC in your library, then surely an outside card can represent the DFC as a face down morph.
If the card can be drawn from the library, it has a card back, and if it has card back, it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down...
Man, they totally missed out on designing triple face cards. You start with the human side, flip it, and it becomes a werewolf. Then you flip it again, then it becomes an eldrazi.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Magic.
Kamigawa Flip card on the front face with an Innistrad Transform ability on the flipped side. They could even make a flip card on the transformed side to give it 4 effective modes.
Give it Morph and you've a 5 sided card.
DFC can't be morphed. They can be manifested but they can only be morphed up if they are a creature on the front. Ixidron does nothing to DFC's, sadly....
From the comprehensive rules:
"711.9. If an effect allows a player to cast a double-faced card as a face-down creature spell, or if a double-faced card enters the battlefield face down, it will have the characteristics given to it by the rule or effect that caused it to be face down. That card remains hidden, using either a face-down checklist card or opaque sleeves."
So both Morph and Manifest work just fine on DFCs. You are correct that Ixidron doesn't work, but if the front face of a double faced card has the morph ability itself, you could play it face-down just fine.
So now that the full set is out, counting the DFCs, what is the final count of Eldrazi in the set?
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
So now that the full set is out, counting the DFCs, what is the final count of Eldrazi in the set?
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
But considering that those were 100% Eldrazi focused sets/blocks.
I think 1/5 of the set being Eldrazi is a pretty big number for a set that is supposed to be "not full of" Eldrazi.
So now that the full set is out, counting the DFCs, what is the final count of Eldrazi in the set?
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
But considering that those were 100% Eldrazi focused sets/blocks.
I think 1/5 of the set being Eldrazi is a pretty big number for a set that is supposed to be "not full of" Eldrazi.
Remember that exactly half of EMN's Eldrazi are a result of DFCs padding out the set size. Oath of the Gatewatch had 55 colorless nonland, nonartifact cards with a set size 20 cards fewer. Since pack distribution restricts the appearance rate of DFCs, an EMN pack will only occasionally give more than 1 Eldrazi. Not to mention, the meld cards will only count if you get both of them.
I'd rathrr they waited a bit and them gone the whole way. Emrakul on Innistrad, no Jace, no gatewatch, just Sorin, Ugin (the wait given him time to recover) and Arlinn, up against Nahiri and Emrakul, while Tamiyo is there documenting it all. Oh and Liliana would still be the finisher of course because this is her moment.
Especially given the synergy Ugin has with Eldrazi potentially hinting at something regarding their backstory, which would tie in perfectly with Emrakul's corruption powers.
This, so much!
I understand wizards hesitation on having multiple storylines, but honestly, I missed it. i loved having different stories every year or so.
I'd rather that instead of a linear, and now tedious story we instead had multiple plots that intertwined on occasion. something like:
new villain, mono blue planes walker the that grows up in the shadow of jace and manipulates the people into giving him control of a powerful artifact.
Gideon and Liliana both find each other in the underworld on theros. one is trying to help Elspeth ,the other is trying to see if an actual death god can help her.
ugin learns of a new artifact that could help his research, and tezzerat finds out and runs off to get it before ugin. they both arrive on kaladesh to find the new villain already has it. and tezzerat and the new guy drive off ugin surprising all 3
ugin goes to jace, who is in a world war on ravbica with veraska.veraska is defeated, but is found by antijace and the antigatewatch forms after meeting on alara.
meanwhile, elpeth takes Gideon back to alara.Gideon, Elspeth and nissa help balance the plane of alara. and Karn shows up asking for help.
antigatewatch, terrors an unknown plane. but pyrexia oil shows up. tezzerat brought it! tamiyo observes everything but takes samples.
(i can brainstorm all day about this, anyone want more?)
So now that the full set is out, counting the DFCs, what is the final count of Eldrazi in the set?
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
But considering that those were 100% Eldrazi focused sets/blocks.
I think 1/5 of the set being Eldrazi is a pretty big number for a set that is supposed to be "not full of" Eldrazi.
Remember that exactly half of EMN's Eldrazi are a result of DFCs padding out the set size. Oath of the Gatewatch had 55 colorless nonland, nonartifact cards with a set size 20 cards fewer. Since pack distribution restricts the appearance rate of DFCs, an EMN pack will only occasionally give more than 1 Eldrazi. Not to mention, the meld cards will only count if you get both of them.
The annoying this though as that the Eldrazi make up nearly half of the "not common filler cards". Of the cards worth spoiling individually, a good number are eldrazi. This is upsetting because those are slots that we could have seen more mythic zombies (for a set about Liliana, Gisa, and Geralf raising a horde of zombies to fight Emrakul... this a weird lack of zombies... I seriously expected more...), maybe a Spirit Lord, some love for werewolves, or maybe even some love for devils... but instead, many of the mythic and rare slots got taken up by the Eldrazi themed cards...
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
i think the other thing a lot of people fail to consider is the art.
yeah, there might only be x amount of eldrazi creatures in the set, but how many cards feature eldrazi oriented art? if you look at that number, a set not filled with eldrazi... certainly is.
So now that the full set is out, counting the DFCs, what is the final count of Eldrazi in the set?
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
But considering that those were 100% Eldrazi focused sets/blocks.
I think 1/5 of the set being Eldrazi is a pretty big number for a set that is supposed to be "not full of" Eldrazi.
And it's more than the original Eldrazi set had, Rise of the Eldrazi.
I don't know if Duel Masters has actual cards that call forth the triple face cards, rather than some sort of checklist card, but all I know is the whole checklist idea, and requiring sleeves idea, just doesn't cut it. It seems unprofessional.
My joke, if you will, was based on the fact that a professional magician might have a trick where the magician places a card, flips it over, then flips it again to reveal something different from what was there originally.
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I wasn't talking about Kaladesh. I was talking about the set right after Kaladesh. With a 3 block standard rotation the set after Kaladesh could have had Eldrazi that they might pull out because of the backlash, and fits my thinking for Coax from the Blind Eternities appearing in this set.
I still don't agree with that reasoning. Sometimes cards get printed in sets because they make sense for that set, not everything has to be a reference to future or past sets. Moonmist is a great example of that, it means just about nothing to the sets before and after it. Coax from the Blind Eternities may have some significance due to the last set, but that doesn't mean it has to mean anything for Kaladesh.
Note that I'm not saying they will absolutely not have Eldrazi in Kaladesh, just that the existence of one card doesn't mean anything regarding future sets, especially when there is more than enough Eldrazi right now for Coax to be relevant.
Once again - I'm talking about the block after Kaladesh (Barrel//Laughs) I can pretty much guarantee that there won't be any Eldrazi in Kaladesh.
And I get that. But I don't see any reason why the existence of a card has to mean anything about the existence of a block that isn't coming out for close to another year. Yes, it'll still be in Standard, but that doesn't mean that Barrel//Laughs is going to have Eldrazi. So I'm still trying to grasp why you think it will be. My answer doesn't change based off of whether it's Kaladesh or future block we don't know about yet, the reasoning is the same.
You may say, how does a triple face card work?
Yeah you're right, this isn't Rise all over again.
It is New Phyrexia all over again.
At least Ulamog fit a different flavor space than the Phyrexians. Emrakul doesn't.
This is the exact same story as New Phyrexia. Plane gets overrun by otherworldy horrors. Friends are transformed into abominations as the remnants of the uncorrupted population fight for survival, aided by planeswalkers.
At least Ulamog gave off a Galactucus vibe. I'm not getting the "feed" vibe from Ekrakul. Just a "corrupt and enslave" one, even more so than in Zendikar.
But then it won't have the authentic "transformation" feeling that you get from conventional double face cards.
DFC can't be morphed. They can be manifested but they can only be morphed up if they are a creature on the front. Ixidron does nothing to DFC's, sadly....
Mark my words, the Year of Eldrazi will not be the last we see of them.
RGUCascade Cascade -- When you want to put a Roil Elemental into play before a Boundless Realms is cast...RGU
They can be manifested though!
My 720 Peasant Cube
If a DFC is to be forced face down, couldn't you just take the checklist card to represent the face down card? If an outside card is used to represent a DFC in your library, then surely an outside card can represent the DFC as a face down morph.
If the card can be drawn from the library, it has a card back, and if it has card back, it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down, but WOTC made it so that there is no card back in a DFC, and if there is no card back in a DFC, you can't draw it from the library, but you can draw it from the library via checklist cards, which means it has a card back, which means it can be turned face down...
POOF!!!!!
From the comprehensive rules:
"711.9. If an effect allows a player to cast a double-faced card as a face-down creature spell, or if a double-faced card enters the battlefield face down, it will have the characteristics given to it by the rule or effect that caused it to be face down. That card remains hidden, using either a face-down checklist card or opaque sleeves."
So both Morph and Manifest work just fine on DFCs. You are correct that Ixidron doesn't work, but if the front face of a double faced card has the morph ability itself, you could play it face-down just fine.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
There are 12 actual, fully colorless Eldrazi, 14 DFCs that turn into Eldrazi, and 3 Meld pairs. That makes for 27 nontoken Eldrazi on 30 cards. There are 7 non-DFC cards that make 3/2 Eldrazi Horror tokens, plus 3 non-DFC cards designed to interact with Eldrazi. That makes 40 cards out of 205 all told, nothing compared to the Eldrazi presence in BFZ and OGW.
But considering that those were 100% Eldrazi focused sets/blocks.
I think 1/5 of the set being Eldrazi is a pretty big number for a set that is supposed to be "not full of" Eldrazi.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Remember that exactly half of EMN's Eldrazi are a result of DFCs padding out the set size. Oath of the Gatewatch had 55 colorless nonland, nonartifact cards with a set size 20 cards fewer. Since pack distribution restricts the appearance rate of DFCs, an EMN pack will only occasionally give more than 1 Eldrazi. Not to mention, the meld cards will only count if you get both of them.
This, so much!
I understand wizards hesitation on having multiple storylines, but honestly, I missed it. i loved having different stories every year or so.
I'd rather that instead of a linear, and now tedious story we instead had multiple plots that intertwined on occasion. something like:
new villain, mono blue planes walker the that grows up in the shadow of jace and manipulates the people into giving him control of a powerful artifact.
Gideon and Liliana both find each other in the underworld on theros. one is trying to help Elspeth ,the other is trying to see if an actual death god can help her.
ugin learns of a new artifact that could help his research, and tezzerat finds out and runs off to get it before ugin. they both arrive on kaladesh to find the new villain already has it. and tezzerat and the new guy drive off ugin surprising all 3
ugin goes to jace, who is in a world war on ravbica with veraska.veraska is defeated, but is found by antijace and the antigatewatch forms after meeting on alara.
meanwhile, elpeth takes Gideon back to alara.Gideon, Elspeth and nissa help balance the plane of alara. and Karn shows up asking for help.
antigatewatch, terrors an unknown plane. but pyrexia oil shows up. tezzerat brought it! tamiyo observes everything but takes samples.
(i can brainstorm all day about this, anyone want more?)
29
My 720 Peasant Cube
The annoying this though as that the Eldrazi make up nearly half of the "not common filler cards". Of the cards worth spoiling individually, a good number are eldrazi. This is upsetting because those are slots that we could have seen more mythic zombies (for a set about Liliana, Gisa, and Geralf raising a horde of zombies to fight Emrakul... this a weird lack of zombies... I seriously expected more...), maybe a Spirit Lord, some love for werewolves, or maybe even some love for devils... but instead, many of the mythic and rare slots got taken up by the Eldrazi themed cards...
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
yeah, there might only be x amount of eldrazi creatures in the set, but how many cards feature eldrazi oriented art? if you look at that number, a set not filled with eldrazi... certainly is.
And it's more than the original Eldrazi set had, Rise of the Eldrazi.
I don't know if Duel Masters has actual cards that call forth the triple face cards, rather than some sort of checklist card, but all I know is the whole checklist idea, and requiring sleeves idea, just doesn't cut it. It seems unprofessional.
My joke, if you will, was based on the fact that a professional magician might have a trick where the magician places a card, flips it over, then flips it again to reveal something different from what was there originally.