This set only shows that we'll end up seeing more MMA and EMA products.
MM was an extremely well made product with cards at rarities being worth money and was an extremely good draft format. MM15 Put anything worth money at Mythic making it near impossible to make money from and was a subpar draft experience. EMA looks to be in between the 2, however much closer to MMA15 as most of the value is in the rares/mythics, and a lot of these cards will go down in price once they get opened some. A lot of these draftables are relatively recent cards as well, why can't we get stuff more on the line of created draft for alpha through judgement?
...So this set is not for people trying to get into legacy. But then for whom is it?
After looking at the full spoiler I think this set was to draw Commander players to a draft environment ("I finally got a Sylvan Library!", etc...), this set has so manye EDH staples it's almost a joke, of course there's FOW and Wasteland (for the legacy crowd) and a couple of banned cards in EDH too, but almost every rare is a multiplayer star.
why can't we get stuff more on the line of created draft for alpha through judgement?
Partially because cards weren't designed for draft as prominently then, but largely because the general power level of creatures was much lower then. Most creature cards from that era would be underpowered by today's draft standards.
People being disappointed about card exclusions was pretty much guaranteed. It's only 249 cards from across the history of the game, and everyone wants something different.
I'm pretty sure nobody wanted Call the skybreaker, even at common.
Considering that all of this could have gone into a Modern Masters set where it would have been more appropriate, then I am not happy to get Call the Skybreaker, Burning Vengeance or Dream Twist in this set. I would have preferred something that hasn't been in a modern border or had a foil printing. With Eternal Masters, I wanted nostalgia, not retrace or cards that were printed in the last few years.
This is a kind of interesting argument, that it would be better if the card weren't included here because it reduces the chance it will show up in MM. I'm pretty sympathetic to it, since my experience with Call, BV, Dream Twist, etc is from a custom Modern Masters set. If WotC excludes BV from future MM's on the basis of its inclusion here, then I will be very unhappy it showed up. On the other hand, it isn't clear that they will, and conditioned on the UR theme being what it is, I would prefer that Call be included than that we have the theme but no Call.
In any case, I agree that they dipped a little too much into the recent card pool in general. The development article that went up Friday talked about how they had struggled with the "no modern legal cards" restriction of Vintage Masters, and I think they overreacted a little.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
From the moment i read the slogan "Draft Through Eternity", i knew this set would be an utter failure.
In their effort to please everyone, they ended up doing a sub-par job in all aspects. Just like a duck, Eternal Masters tries to fly, run and swim, but does neither of those things well.
For starters, drafting an expensive, limited run product is like having the best sex of your life the night before the divorce: a living dream while it lasts, but after you wake up comes the realization that you just lost a good chunk of your savings in a temporary, relatively vain experience. You can eventually download an adult simulation program and have another go for free, but it will never be like that time.
When it comes to Legacy players, both novice and veterans were shafted. The format didn't become any easier to get into. For every staple revealed this week, another important, non-spoiled card became more expensive. Furthermore, the concentration of high value cards into mythic slots guarantee that the prices are likely to bounce back eventually. As for old timers, while some of them have the opportunity to grab some extra cards for their collection, chances are most already had the most playable ones in the first place, and their collection is now suffering a temporary devaluation. Also, let's have a moment of silence for all those who just sold their Rishadan Ports.
Those who appreciate the art style are likely to be very disappointed with the lack of contextual fidelity of many cards. Winter Orb's new art, for example, is an insult to the iconic card from my childhood, which i still have with me despite not playing paper magic for more than a decade. Whereas the old art depicted the harsh life in a gelid environment, the new one is but a floating ball in a snowy place. The picture choices for Hymn to Tourach and Necropotence, among others, are a missed opportunity. Changing the art is not necessarily bad, but some standards must be met in order for this to be an exciting re-experience of the old times. Cards like Chrome Mox and Wasteland are spot-on in this aspect, and i feel sad to see that they are not representative of the set as a whole.
Last, but certainly not least are the MTGO players, who rightfully complained about how little their needs were taken in consideration. And to be honest, i believe the online hole is much deeper than the lack of important reprints: the whole concept of digital scarcity is disgusting, and people who take advantage of that should never, ever be taken in consideration when designing each new set. That is, of course, subject to another topic.
For now, i will wrap it up by saying i am not going to buy Eternal Masters products. High price, low utility relative to the huge accessibility issue that killed older formats, questionable art direction and a big middle finger to online players. My condolences to all players who started to regret their preorders after the Friday spoilers.
I really miss the days of old magic where there were no rares, just commons and uncommons. Some of the uncommons were 3 times more likely to show up, for sure, but you didn't have all the money being focused by such a high factor on some rare cards. Then for a while there were just rares, but the uncommons were the second tier so they were allowed to be awesome. Now that there are Mythics, Rares are also allowed to be good, but power uncommons hardly exist anymore, and that makes me sad.
I would love it if they reprinted Modern Masters 1 Redux, just smashing out exactly the same product again for another limited edition print run. That was the last time I remember getting excited for commons and uncommons in a set.
Just wait till they print a Masters Anthology. It couldn't get any worse, eh?
From the outside looking in, it's very hard to see who else is the target audience. If anyone says it's for the EDH crowd (obviously), then why make it draftable?
And for those who say the rarity is justified for draft purposes, how many pods are you gonna draft? 1? 2? Can you even sustain a third (and beyond) without hesitating about the costs? If Wizards intents for individuals to draft only a couple of times on average, the set has failed already. Don't say it's good to draft when you aren't gonna draft it frequently. It's disingenuous and gives Wizards artificial feedback.
As just one small way they could have spiced up the set would have been to put a card, even if crap, that had never been released online before. Collectors and maybe a few other niche groups would have been happy.
Tired of them compromising what they reprint because they see it as primarily for draft with premium price and small print runs. They are trying to do multiple things with opposing objectives which is hurting everyone.
If it's primarily for draft then make it larger print runs and not so expensive.
If it's premium priced product to get in demand cards into the market and promote different formats then concentrate on cards those formats need like Inkmoth Nexus and Jitte which have little chance of being seen in draft.
Conspiracy seemed better to me overall than this set. It had quite a few legacy cards, and it was a standard MSRP. It had lots of good commons and uncommons and the overall power level was good. Plus it wasn't limited print run. Looking over this set again it's not as bad as I first thought. There is a decent amount of good reprints but I don't think it's worth it to buy sealed product.
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Standard
none
Modern UBG B/U/G control BBB MBC WUR Control WWW Prison RRR Goblins
Legacy BBB Pox UBG B/U/G Control UWU StoneBlade UW Miracle Control
In any case, I agree that they dipped a little too much into the recent card pool in general. The development article that went up Friday talked about how they had struggled with the "no modern legal cards" restriction of Vintage Masters, and I think they overreacted a little.
See, when I read something like this all I hear is "waaah, designing sets is HAND! Let's take the easy way out."
Wasn't VMA one of the most popular sets in recent memory? You'd think WotC would have the good sense to follow a proven formula rather than screwing with it, regardless of how difficult the work might be.
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I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Where is imperial seal? That could have easily been a mythic rare in this set.
Vampiric Tutor *is* a mythic rare in this set. It's the same card, only better because it's instant and cheaper because it had more copies printed. If there was a sudden new supply of Imperial Seals it wouldn't still be a 3-digit-price card - it only commands that value now because of extreme scarcity that a reprint would negate. They'd be crashing the market of a valuable card by reprinting it rather than its better but more plentiful older brother.
Just wait till they print a Masters Anthology. It couldn't get any worse, eh?
From the outside looking in, it's very hard to see who else is the target audience. If anyone says it's for the EDH crowd (obviously), then why make it draftable?
And for those who say the rarity is justified for draft purposes, how many pods are you gonna draft? 1? 2? Can you even sustain a third (and beyond) without hesitating about the costs? If Wizards intents for individuals to draft only a couple of times on average, the set has failed already. Don't say it's good to draft when you aren't gonna draft it frequently. It's disingenuous and gives Wizards artificial feedback.
The set is a blast to draft!!! But...
Just stop. You had me at "BUT".
I am the target audience. I'll draft 25-40 pods, depending on quality and time availability, and I will judge its quality based on how fun those drafts were.
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I primarily play limited, so most of my spoiler season comments view cards through that lens.
Having done the math, there isn't enough I care about in this set to justify pulling the trigger on a box. Only ~40% of the rares mean anything to me, though 80% of the mythics do, whether for financial or personal preference. Given this, statistically less than half of a box will have cards I actually want in it. I will therefore be better served buying singles a few weeks after release when the supply has peaked. None of this accounts for foils, but I doubt that shifts personal interest to over half the box.
Additionally, I don't THINK that this evaluation would change if I knew enough people who wanted to draft this set...
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L1 judge since 1/30/12 (lapsed as of 1/30/13)
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
Where is imperial seal? That could have easily been a mythic rare in this set.
Vampiric Tutor *is* a mythic rare in this set. It's the same card, only better because it's instant and cheaper because it had more copies printed. If there was a sudden new supply of Imperial Seals it wouldn't still be a 3-digit-price card - it only commands that value now because of extreme scarcity that a reprint would negate. They'd be crashing the market of a valuable card by reprinting it rather than its better but more plentiful older brother.
Yeah... problem is: In EDH you might just wanna play as many tutors as you can, because this is how you get consistency, which lets you win. There are Vampiric, Demonic und Diabolic Tutor and then it's already thin because the pricetag of Imperial Seal is just disgusting given that it is a strictly worse vamp tutor (~500 Euro if you want an english one). The other available tutors are limited in what they find or too expensive to really use.
Problem is you are not entitled to a copy of an extremely expensive card.
Where is imperial seal? That could have easily been a mythic rare in this set.
Vampiric Tutor *is* a mythic rare in this set. It's the same card, only better because it's instant and cheaper because it had more copies printed. If there was a sudden new supply of Imperial Seals it wouldn't still be a 3-digit-price card - it only commands that value now because of extreme scarcity that a reprint would negate. They'd be crashing the market of a valuable card by reprinting it rather than its better but more plentiful older brother.
Yeah... problem is: In EDH you might just wanna play as many tutors as you can, because this is how you get consistency, which lets you win. There are Vampiric, Demonic und Diabolic Tutor and then it's already thin because the pricetag of Imperial Seal is just disgusting given that it is a strictly worse vamp tutor (~500 Euro if you want an english one). The other available tutors are limited in what they find or too expensive to really use.
Problem is you are not entitled to a copy of an extremely expensive card.
Novel concept I know.
Well, duh. But neither is WotC entitled to his money. He has a good point, he made it available for WotC to read (we know they're here), and there's no need to chastise him for making it. Perhaps they'll learn because he took the time and trouble to post.
Well, duh. But neither is WotC entitled to his money. He has a good point, he made it available for WotC to read (we know they're here), and there's no need to chastise him for making it. Perhaps they'll learn because he took the time and trouble to post.
I think WoTC figures that they'll still make bank on this set even if some people didn't find their most-desired reprints. Also, I don't think their employees take the time to read random forum posts to find complaints. They have social media for that now.
Yeah... problem is: In EDH you might just wanna play as many tutors as you can, because this is how you get consistency, which lets you win. There are Vampiric, Demonic und Diabolic Tutor and then it's already thin because the pricetag of Imperial Seal is just disgusting given that it is a strictly worse vamp tutor (~500 Euro if you want an english one). The other available tutors are limited in what they find or too expensive to really use.
Oh poor you, you can't afford the 13th tutor effect in your black combo deck. Far be it for me to tell someone how to have fun, but if your deck seriously suffers because, liliana vess, beseech the queen, diabolic revelation, demonic tutor, diabolic tutor, vamp tutor, cruel tutor, dark petition, maralen, demonic collusion, diabolic intent, increasing ambitions and sidisi (and thats just in black) are not enough, then you are not a deck I care to play against.
In fact if your deck requires that much help to be consistent, then your deck is terribly constructed.
Having done the math, there isn't enough I care about in this set to justify pulling the trigger on a box. Only ~40% of the rares mean anything to me, though 80% of the mythics do, whether for financial or personal preference. Given this, statistically less than half of a box will have cards I actually want in it. I will therefore be better served buying singles a few weeks after release when the supply has peaked. None of this accounts for foils, but I doubt that shifts personal interest to over half the box.
Additionally, I don't THINK that this evaluation would change if I knew enough people who wanted to draft this set...
This is basically where I'm at.
Even though I feel like this is a much better use of $240 than a box of MM2 was,
I can't bring myself to buy any significant amount of packs because I'm very unlikely to open anything I need.
Not counting foils or "border upgrades" (hello, Winter Orb),
the only cards I *really* want out of this set are Sinkhole, Gamble, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, and Wasteland.
I can probably buy playsets of most of those for the price of a box.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
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MM was an extremely well made product with cards at rarities being worth money and was an extremely good draft format. MM15 Put anything worth money at Mythic making it near impossible to make money from and was a subpar draft experience. EMA looks to be in between the 2, however much closer to MMA15 as most of the value is in the rares/mythics, and a lot of these cards will go down in price once they get opened some. A lot of these draftables are relatively recent cards as well, why can't we get stuff more on the line of created draft for alpha through judgement?
After looking at the full spoiler I think this set was to draw Commander players to a draft environment ("I finally got a Sylvan Library!", etc...), this set has so manye EDH staples it's almost a joke, of course there's FOW and Wasteland (for the legacy crowd) and a couple of banned cards in EDH too, but almost every rare is a multiplayer star.
Oh well, I sold my entire collection last week so I don't really care. I'll draft it once, maybe buy a couple of packs for fun and that will be that.
It always was all about Conspiracy 2 for me anyway.
Partially because cards weren't designed for draft as prominently then, but largely because the general power level of creatures was much lower then. Most creature cards from that era would be underpowered by today's draft standards.
This is a kind of interesting argument, that it would be better if the card weren't included here because it reduces the chance it will show up in MM. I'm pretty sympathetic to it, since my experience with Call, BV, Dream Twist, etc is from a custom Modern Masters set. If WotC excludes BV from future MM's on the basis of its inclusion here, then I will be very unhappy it showed up. On the other hand, it isn't clear that they will, and conditioned on the UR theme being what it is, I would prefer that Call be included than that we have the theme but no Call.
In any case, I agree that they dipped a little too much into the recent card pool in general. The development article that went up Friday talked about how they had struggled with the "no modern legal cards" restriction of Vintage Masters, and I think they overreacted a little.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
In their effort to please everyone, they ended up doing a sub-par job in all aspects. Just like a duck, Eternal Masters tries to fly, run and swim, but does neither of those things well.
For starters, drafting an expensive, limited run product is like having the best sex of your life the night before the divorce: a living dream while it lasts, but after you wake up comes the realization that you just lost a good chunk of your savings in a temporary, relatively vain experience. You can eventually download an adult simulation program and have another go for free, but it will never be like that time.
When it comes to Legacy players, both novice and veterans were shafted. The format didn't become any easier to get into. For every staple revealed this week, another important, non-spoiled card became more expensive. Furthermore, the concentration of high value cards into mythic slots guarantee that the prices are likely to bounce back eventually. As for old timers, while some of them have the opportunity to grab some extra cards for their collection, chances are most already had the most playable ones in the first place, and their collection is now suffering a temporary devaluation. Also, let's have a moment of silence for all those who just sold their Rishadan Ports.
Those who appreciate the art style are likely to be very disappointed with the lack of contextual fidelity of many cards. Winter Orb's new art, for example, is an insult to the iconic card from my childhood, which i still have with me despite not playing paper magic for more than a decade. Whereas the old art depicted the harsh life in a gelid environment, the new one is but a floating ball in a snowy place. The picture choices for Hymn to Tourach and Necropotence, among others, are a missed opportunity. Changing the art is not necessarily bad, but some standards must be met in order for this to be an exciting re-experience of the old times. Cards like Chrome Mox and Wasteland are spot-on in this aspect, and i feel sad to see that they are not representative of the set as a whole.
Last, but certainly not least are the MTGO players, who rightfully complained about how little their needs were taken in consideration. And to be honest, i believe the online hole is much deeper than the lack of important reprints: the whole concept of digital scarcity is disgusting, and people who take advantage of that should never, ever be taken in consideration when designing each new set. That is, of course, subject to another topic.
For now, i will wrap it up by saying i am not going to buy Eternal Masters products. High price, low utility relative to the huge accessibility issue that killed older formats, questionable art direction and a big middle finger to online players. My condolences to all players who started to regret their preorders after the Friday spoilers.
I would love it if they reprinted Modern Masters 1 Redux, just smashing out exactly the same product again for another limited edition print run. That was the last time I remember getting excited for commons and uncommons in a set.
From the outside looking in, it's very hard to see who else is the target audience. If anyone says it's for the EDH crowd (obviously), then why make it draftable?
And for those who say the rarity is justified for draft purposes, how many pods are you gonna draft? 1? 2? Can you even sustain a third (and beyond) without hesitating about the costs? If Wizards intents for individuals to draft only a couple of times on average, the set has failed already. Don't say it's good to draft when you aren't gonna draft it frequently. It's disingenuous and gives Wizards artificial feedback.
The set is a blast to draft!!! But...
Just stop. You had me at "BUT".
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
There is no ETERNAL witness in ETERNAL masters.
But there is Brago, King ETERNAL...
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
This is pretty much Mana Crypt + Karakas: The set. Because the rest of these cards are crap
If it's primarily for draft then make it larger print runs and not so expensive.
If it's premium priced product to get in demand cards into the market and promote different formats then concentrate on cards those formats need like Inkmoth Nexus and Jitte which have little chance of being seen in draft.
An enigma as vexing as life itself.
none
Modern
UBG B/U/G control
BBB MBC
WUR Control
WWW Prison
RRR Goblins
Legacy
BBB Pox
UBG B/U/G Control
UWU StoneBlade
UW Miracle Control
See, when I read something like this all I hear is "waaah, designing sets is HAND! Let's take the easy way out."
Wasn't VMA one of the most popular sets in recent memory? You'd think WotC would have the good sense to follow a proven formula rather than screwing with it, regardless of how difficult the work might be.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
Vampiric Tutor *is* a mythic rare in this set. It's the same card, only better because it's instant and cheaper because it had more copies printed. If there was a sudden new supply of Imperial Seals it wouldn't still be a 3-digit-price card - it only commands that value now because of extreme scarcity that a reprint would negate. They'd be crashing the market of a valuable card by reprinting it rather than its better but more plentiful older brother.
I am the target audience. I'll draft 25-40 pods, depending on quality and time availability, and I will judge its quality based on how fun those drafts were.
Interested in Custom Card Creation.
My Cube:Cardinal Custom Cube
A custom version of a third modern masters: MM2019
(filter->rarity to see in set rarity).
Additionally, I don't THINK that this evaluation would change if I knew enough people who wanted to draft this set...
My Friend Code is: 0146-9645-8893
Problem is you are not entitled to a copy of an extremely expensive card.
Novel concept I know.
Well, duh. But neither is WotC entitled to his money. He has a good point, he made it available for WotC to read (we know they're here), and there's no need to chastise him for making it. Perhaps they'll learn because he took the time and trouble to post.
I think WoTC figures that they'll still make bank on this set even if some people didn't find their most-desired reprints. Also, I don't think their employees take the time to read random forum posts to find complaints. They have social media for that now.
Oh poor you, you can't afford the 13th tutor effect in your black combo deck. Far be it for me to tell someone how to have fun, but if your deck seriously suffers because, liliana vess, beseech the queen, diabolic revelation, demonic tutor, diabolic tutor, vamp tutor, cruel tutor, dark petition, maralen, demonic collusion, diabolic intent, increasing ambitions and sidisi (and thats just in black) are not enough, then you are not a deck I care to play against.
In fact if your deck requires that much help to be consistent, then your deck is terribly constructed.
This is basically where I'm at.
Even though I feel like this is a much better use of $240 than a box of MM2 was,
I can't bring myself to buy any significant amount of packs because I'm very unlikely to open anything I need.
Not counting foils or "border upgrades" (hello, Winter Orb),
the only cards I *really* want out of this set are Sinkhole, Gamble, Sneak Attack, Natural Order, and Wasteland.
I can probably buy playsets of most of those for the price of a box.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW