Very well stated Mogg Flunky. You wrote the entire post I was composing in my head as I read the thread, only more completely and more elegantly than I'd have managed it.
Wizards is gunshy about tanking the value of the secondary market, because they don't want to anger the player base and the want cards to continue to retain and grow in value. In this set they seem to be willing to reprint more valuable cards than they did in MM1 and 2, at least given what we know so far. I'm hopeful that they'll continue to ramp up their reprint policy and _gradually_ decrease the cost of building a competitive deck in non-rotating formats, while preserving most of the value of folks large collections.
Wizards really does care about this game and the people who play it. Chronicles was a huge debacle, and they are justifiably afraid of doing something similar. They swung the pendulum too far the other way, reprinting almost nothing, and now seem to be easing back into the business of reprinting valuable cards. The level of vitrol that is being thrown around here doesn't sit well with me. They have a tough job in working around their secondary market in a respectful way, and by my estimation they are handling it pretty well. I'd love a more agressive reprint policy, but I think we're just getting there slowly.
Glad to see the reprint, not glad to see the rarity shift. Outcome: conflicted
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1. You don't want people drafting 3-4 of these in limited, and we don't know yet if nettle sentinel made the set. Considering how much of modern and legacy elves core is in the set I wouldnt be very surprised if it was. Regardless, it does busted things and you don't want that in the set. No one wants to play against an elf swarm every draft.
2. The effect is one that is fine for a rare. It's arguably one of strongest elf cards for both modern and legacy.
3. Some part of the elf core had to be in various rarities, they don't want to tank the value of a legacy deck in one swoop. Not just for limited, but also people looking to collect the deck. I shouldn't be able to sit down to 2-3 drafts and build the entire creature suite for the deck...
4. Market retains some of its value if the card doesn't see a reprint at common/uncommon. Foils are like $20-40, regular copies around $10. I for one appreciate steps like this because it applies some downward pressure but it's not going to spiral down the drain. Makes me feel better about trades and buys in general.
I'm stoked legacy and modern elves are seeing some reprints and I feel like a good rarity spread will be good overall. As someone with both built I appreciate the reprints because both decks are fun to play. I'm looking forward to drying them out in draft.
Very well stated Mogg Flunky. You wrote the entire post I was composing in my head as I read the thread, only more completely and more elegantly than I'd have managed it.
Wizards is gunshy about tanking the value of the secondary market, because they don't want to anger the player base and the want cards to continue to retain and grow in value. In this set they seem to be willing to reprint more valuable cards than they did in MM1 and 2, at least given what we know so far. I'm hopeful that they'll continue to ramp up their reprint policy and _gradually_ decrease the cost of building a competitive deck in non-rotating formats, while preserving most of the value of folks large collections.
Wizards really does care about this game and the people who play it. Chronicles was a huge debacle, and they are justifiably afraid of doing something similar. They swung the pendulum too far the other way, reprinting almost nothing, and now seem to be easing back into the business of reprinting valuable cards. The level of vitrol that is being thrown around here doesn't sit well with me. They have a tough job in working around their secondary market in a respectful way, and by my estimation they are handling it pretty well. I'd love a more agressive reprint policy, but I think we're just getting there slowly.
While Chronicles was a huge deal back then, with MM1 and MM2 it is amazing that they are pulling back the print run on this when they know what happened from MM1. Cards went down in price and then a month later were more expensive than previous, of course this only applying to the Modern playable cards and not things like Jugan or Stonehewer Giant. MM2 had about the perfect print run, although if the set would have actually been good maybe supply would have been harder to come by, but anyways we know this is near MM1's print run and that was far too little, but MM2 had plenty for everyone, so why take a step back? This is going to be MM1 all over again with prices.
They've learned from Modern Masters and yet with these cards they are being incredibly careful with these, like they are on some "Semi Reserved List". Why is that?
No matter if there is a rarity shift on this card or not, the price tag WILL drop after the release of EMA.
This is always a good thing to expect, right?
I'm willing to bet hat Priest of Titania is in this thing (at common) along with that elf that bounces a forest to untap a creature. Having these at common would make this card way too good as an uncommon.
I'm hopeful that they'll continue to ramp up their reprint policy and _gradually_ decrease the cost of building a competitive deck in non-rotating formats, while preserving most of the value of folks large collections.
Except this isn't happening. They're too shy with reprints, and the cost to enter Modern is skyrocketing despite (or perhaps in part because of) products like Modern Masters as the supply they are injecting doesn't come close to meeting the demand that these products creates. The first time Tarmogoyf was reprinted it actually went up in price. The second time it spiked beforehand and then settled back to its pre-spike price. Even worse, Modern Masters generates interest in Modern as a format, which creates demand for cards that aren't being reprinted. I suspect Eternal Masters will be even worse for Legacy due to the most valuable and important cards in the format being on the Reserve List and ineligible for reprint. The short print run and high MSRP of Eternal Masters shows they learned nothing from Modern Masters and MM15.
These sets are pretty good for Commander players, however.
I wish they would be open to doing second print runs of sets that were well received and didn't negatively impact prices by very much. Another run of MM1 would be well recieved, for example, and wouldn't cost wizards anything in development. Have they made any promises about keeping the print run limited?
I wasn't playing during Lorwyn, so I don't know how powerful it was in limited. I will admit that of all the complaints I've heard about LLM, "Heritage Druid is overpowered." is not one of them. And it's certainly possible for a single card in a small set to generate complaints in a draft format; I've definitely heard people say Sprout Swarm taints TPF.
It's also worth noting that being an uncommon in a small set and being an uncommon in a large set are different. In a LLM draft, you would expect ~0.5 Heritage Druids at the table, and it'd be exceedingly unlikely for a player to get 2. If Heritage Druid were uncommon in EMA, there would be on average ~2 at the table, and reasonably likely a player could get 3. There might be a critical mass effect, where having only one Heritage Druid isn't amazing, but having multiple gets out of hand. So it's possible this shift was for limited.
Still, it seems really odd to me. It doesn't even make sense price-wise, as they've been fine with other ~$10 cards at uncommon. Very confusing.
I would probably like an Eternal master 2 just focused on limited experience with no 50$++ mythic rares and have 36 boosters boxes at 100$, so we can fully enjoy it
I would probably like an Eternal master 2 just focused on limited experience with no 50$++ mythic rares and have 36 boosters boxes at 100$, so we can fully enjoy it
You mean Conspiracy?
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It's also worth noting that being an uncommon in a small set and being an uncommon in a large set are different. In a LLM draft, you would expect ~0.5 Heritage Druids at the table, and it'd be exceedingly unlikely for a player to get 2. If Heritage Druid were uncommon in EMA, there would be on average ~2 at the table, and reasonably likely a player could get 3.
There are 80 uncommons in Eternal Masters and at an 8 player draft pod 72 uncommons will be opened. That's an average of 0.9 Heritage Druids per draft by my math. If you assume every foil card has an equal chance of being opened, it bumps the average Heritage Druids up to 1 per draft.
You could expect 1.8 Heritage Druids in a MMM draft, which I did a few times back in 2008, and they were not gamebreaking there. It's important to note that elves as a creature type were far more relevant in MMM draft than they are in EMA x3.
Of these special sets Conspiracy is so far my favourite where it was stupidly expensive and yet gave great value in cards.
Conspiracy was a set with no limitations on the amount they printed of the product and had the same MSRP as regular sets. If the set was 'expensive' then you were probably getting ripped off by your lgs. For nearly a year you could get on ebay and buy boxes at $75-80 with free shipping. As I post this, you can still get boxes for under $100.
Of these special sets Conspiracy is so far my favourite where it was stupidly expensive and yet gave great value in cards.
Conspiracy was a set with no limitations on the amount they printed of the product and had the same MSRP as regular sets. If the set was 'expensive' then you were probably getting ripped off by your lgs. For nearly a year you could get on ebay and buy boxes at $75-80 with free shipping. As I post this, you can still get boxes for under $100.
I typed it wrong lol.I wanted to mean that the set wasn't expensive and thats why i like it
I would probably like an Eternal master 2 just focused on limited experience with no 50$++ mythic rares and have 36 boosters boxes at 100$, so we can fully enjoy it
You mean Conspiracy?
Yep, just a non multiplayer draft format conspiracy would be enough ^^
Heritage Druid is an elf lord for 1 mana. She's arguably the best one ever printed. Seeing her at rare makes sense given her power level.
Heritage Druid by no means is an elf lord.... it essentially says "3 target elves gain tap: add G to your mana pool."
As well, even at uncommon you can only expect to see 1.2 for an entire table, it's fair enough to say in an average draft a person would only get 1 of these and not 2 even if it was at uncommon because some other green player would also take 1.
And the people who state it'sworth the pack at rare, ignore the fact the only place these were selling for $10 was on Starciygames, the most expensive of all the sites and that after these are opened the price will go down. So yes, before the product was spoiled it was $10 and already you can buy them without a single EMA pack opened on Ebay for $5... So much for the value of that pack.
Wait why are people upset this is a rare? I mean it is a pretty ridiculously bonkers card. I guess in limited you might not take a rare on your first pick if you're not playing elves lol but...this was $15+ at a point not long ago and now it's half that with the HUGE HORRIBLE JUMP TO RARE. Ummm?
Oh because your $10 or $15 or whatever EMA pack is worth less now heh. Sucks when you're forced to buy these packs here. Terrible.
If you're doing it for fun it shouldn't matter. If you're doing it for financial gain, you're doing it wrong by opening EMA boosters?
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Wizards is gunshy about tanking the value of the secondary market, because they don't want to anger the player base and the want cards to continue to retain and grow in value. In this set they seem to be willing to reprint more valuable cards than they did in MM1 and 2, at least given what we know so far. I'm hopeful that they'll continue to ramp up their reprint policy and _gradually_ decrease the cost of building a competitive deck in non-rotating formats, while preserving most of the value of folks large collections.
Wizards really does care about this game and the people who play it. Chronicles was a huge debacle, and they are justifiably afraid of doing something similar. They swung the pendulum too far the other way, reprinting almost nothing, and now seem to be easing back into the business of reprinting valuable cards. The level of vitrol that is being thrown around here doesn't sit well with me. They have a tough job in working around their secondary market in a respectful way, and by my estimation they are handling it pretty well. I'd love a more agressive reprint policy, but I think we're just getting there slowly.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
1. You don't want people drafting 3-4 of these in limited, and we don't know yet if nettle sentinel made the set. Considering how much of modern and legacy elves core is in the set I wouldnt be very surprised if it was. Regardless, it does busted things and you don't want that in the set. No one wants to play against an elf swarm every draft.
2. The effect is one that is fine for a rare. It's arguably one of strongest elf cards for both modern and legacy.
3. Some part of the elf core had to be in various rarities, they don't want to tank the value of a legacy deck in one swoop. Not just for limited, but also people looking to collect the deck. I shouldn't be able to sit down to 2-3 drafts and build the entire creature suite for the deck...
4. Market retains some of its value if the card doesn't see a reprint at common/uncommon. Foils are like $20-40, regular copies around $10. I for one appreciate steps like this because it applies some downward pressure but it's not going to spiral down the drain. Makes me feel better about trades and buys in general.
I'm stoked legacy and modern elves are seeing some reprints and I feel like a good rarity spread will be good overall. As someone with both built I appreciate the reprints because both decks are fun to play. I'm looking forward to drying them out in draft.
While Chronicles was a huge deal back then, with MM1 and MM2 it is amazing that they are pulling back the print run on this when they know what happened from MM1. Cards went down in price and then a month later were more expensive than previous, of course this only applying to the Modern playable cards and not things like Jugan or Stonehewer Giant. MM2 had about the perfect print run, although if the set would have actually been good maybe supply would have been harder to come by, but anyways we know this is near MM1's print run and that was far too little, but MM2 had plenty for everyone, so why take a step back? This is going to be MM1 all over again with prices.
They've learned from Modern Masters and yet with these cards they are being incredibly careful with these, like they are on some "Semi Reserved List". Why is that?
This is always a good thing to expect, right?
What do you want to complain about?
Anything, but nothing at the moment...
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Except this isn't happening. They're too shy with reprints, and the cost to enter Modern is skyrocketing despite (or perhaps in part because of) products like Modern Masters as the supply they are injecting doesn't come close to meeting the demand that these products creates. The first time Tarmogoyf was reprinted it actually went up in price. The second time it spiked beforehand and then settled back to its pre-spike price. Even worse, Modern Masters generates interest in Modern as a format, which creates demand for cards that aren't being reprinted. I suspect Eternal Masters will be even worse for Legacy due to the most valuable and important cards in the format being on the Reserve List and ineligible for reprint. The short print run and high MSRP of Eternal Masters shows they learned nothing from Modern Masters and MM15.
These sets are pretty good for Commander players, however.
It's also worth noting that being an uncommon in a small set and being an uncommon in a large set are different. In a LLM draft, you would expect ~0.5 Heritage Druids at the table, and it'd be exceedingly unlikely for a player to get 2. If Heritage Druid were uncommon in EMA, there would be on average ~2 at the table, and reasonably likely a player could get 3. There might be a critical mass effect, where having only one Heritage Druid isn't amazing, but having multiple gets out of hand. So it's possible this shift was for limited.
Still, it seems really odd to me. It doesn't even make sense price-wise, as they've been fine with other ~$10 cards at uncommon. Very confusing.
You mean Conspiracy?
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There are 80 uncommons in Eternal Masters and at an 8 player draft pod 72 uncommons will be opened. That's an average of 0.9 Heritage Druids per draft by my math. If you assume every foil card has an equal chance of being opened, it bumps the average Heritage Druids up to 1 per draft.
You could expect 1.8 Heritage Druids in a MMM draft, which I did a few times back in 2008, and they were not gamebreaking there. It's important to note that elves as a creature type were far more relevant in MMM draft than they are in EMA x3.
Conspiracy was a set with no limitations on the amount they printed of the product and had the same MSRP as regular sets. If the set was 'expensive' then you were probably getting ripped off by your lgs. For nearly a year you could get on ebay and buy boxes at $75-80 with free shipping. As I post this, you can still get boxes for under $100.
I typed it wrong lol.I wanted to mean that the set wasn't expensive and thats why i like it
Yep, just a non multiplayer draft format conspiracy would be enough ^^
I mean, there's nothing that actually mandates you play Conspiracy as a multiplayer format.
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Heritage Druid by no means is an elf lord.... it essentially says "3 target elves gain tap: add G to your mana pool."
As well, even at uncommon you can only expect to see 1.2 for an entire table, it's fair enough to say in an average draft a person would only get 1 of these and not 2 even if it was at uncommon because some other green player would also take 1.
And the people who state it'sworth the pack at rare, ignore the fact the only place these were selling for $10 was on Starciygames, the most expensive of all the sites and that after these are opened the price will go down. So yes, before the product was spoiled it was $10 and already you can buy them without a single EMA pack opened on Ebay for $5... So much for the value of that pack.
Oh because your $10 or $15 or whatever EMA pack is worth less now heh. Sucks when you're forced to buy these packs here. Terrible.
If you're doing it for fun it shouldn't matter. If you're doing it for financial gain, you're doing it wrong by opening EMA boosters?
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