I straight up want a lot of shard-colored spells and 4-colored spells to warrant the use of a 4-colored commander at the helm. Some of the nephilims' powers are so broken (Yore-Tiller Nephilim and Ink-Treader Nephilim) that I hope they get functionally reprinted onto a legendary creature as well as being included in their respected deck. I want these decks to have functional cards in those color combinations and not good stuff. I don't want it to be some halfassed attempt at doing something that's been asked for for so many years. I just hope to get a legendary creature - really hope - that has Yore-Tiller's and Ink-Treader's ability so that I can legit have them as commander for my deck instead of having to ask the pod's permission to use them.
They should also balance out the land availability. I want shard-color lair lands like the dragons (Rith, Treva, Darigaaz, etc.) had. I want shard panoramas. I want enemy tango lands. WotC always misses opportunities to do these things (didn't make shard lairs with the first commander product which, coincidentally, included those dragons (Intet and the others) when they could've made mana fixing easier. They'll probably include all of the available common lands that give multiple colors (guildgates, tri-colored tapped lands, panoramas, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Alara and Tarkir lifelands, or some of the common lands that can give any color (filter lands), and a bunch of basics) which would suck but I wouldn't want rare slots and uncommon slots being wasted on lands, to be honest. It would be cool to finally have a 4-colored land, that would be neat.
Other things I'd like: UBGR legend that's a shapeshifter with a lot of cool abilities so I can finally make a deck that only has clones. That would be awesome. My deck would literally be only as good as my opponents', lol. That would be so fun and difficult to pilot. A guy can dream...
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They're already printing dual faced tokens. And I think they found an easier way to print them when they did the flip walkers.
MaRo says dual-faced tokens are easier because they don't have to match the fronts and backs (that's why i got one that's a dragon on both sides ), but it's much more difficult to make actual dual-faced cards because it's so much harder/more expensive to match the sides. i doubt we get dual-faced cards in supplemental products any time soon.
They're already printing dual faced tokens. And I think they found an easier way to print them when they did the flip walkers.
MaRo says dual-faced tokens are easier because they don't have to match the fronts and backs (that's why i got one that's a dragon on both sides ), but it's much more difficult to make actual dual-faced cards because it's so much harder/more expensive to match the sides. i doubt we get dual-faced cards in supplemental products any time soon.
Huh?
What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
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What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
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What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
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But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
It's not about being off-center. It's about laying them out correctly in the first place, which is impossible to screw up when all the backs are the same, and not a big deal to screw up with tokens, but a critically important and not-actually-trivial thing when you need to make sure every specific back ends up with its specific front.
But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
It's not about being off-center. It's about laying them out correctly in the first place, which is impossible to screw up when all the backs are the same, and not a big deal to screw up with tokens, but a critically important and not-actually-trivial thing when you need to make sure every specific back ends up with its specific front.
Every sheet has a layout, it seems that you just have to check to make sure that the beginning of the sheet/roll are lined up.
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
lines up with
3 2 1
6 5 4
9 8 7
I know you can't have perfect quality control, but it seems like the machine could check this each run. :shrugs:
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What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
I have no idea what exactly their printing process is, but I believe the problem is it takes multiple sheets of different fronts to print any given product. If all the sheets have the same back then that's easy, no need to make sure Front A gets back A and so on. All sheets get the same back. For dual-faced cards they have to print a sheet that has to match both sides every time, one mismatch and then pretty much everything after would be wrong. If they all have the same exact back there aren't any misses. If tokens miss, doesn't matter if they match. The problem isn't so much that they can't match every sheet every time. The problem is the extra time and cost to do so. If they were to do something like that consistently we would have to pay even more than we already do for product for Wizards to keep the same profit margin or whatever.
What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
I have no idea what exactly their printing process is, but I believe the problem is it takes multiple sheets of different fronts to print any given product. If all the sheets have the same back then that's easy, no need to make sure Front A gets back A and so on. All sheets get the same back. For dual-faced cards they have to print a sheet that has to match both sides every time, one mismatch and then pretty much everything after would be wrong. If they all have the same exact back there aren't any misses. If tokens miss, doesn't matter if they match. The problem isn't so much that they can't match every sheet every time. The problem is the extra time and cost to do so. If they were to do something like that consistently we would have to pay even more than we already do for product for Wizards to keep the same profit margin or whatever.
This just made me think that maybe the solution is just print the sheets at 100% one card. Would keep the issues minimal I would think. For this product it's fixed distribution so it'd be easy to do this way I would think.
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You should ask these printing questions to Maro's tumblr, hes been open about explaining why its such a difficult process and you would probably get more out of it beyond just speculating.
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What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
I have no idea what exactly their printing process is, but I believe the problem is it takes multiple sheets of different fronts to print any given product. If all the sheets have the same back then that's easy, no need to make sure Front A gets back A and so on. All sheets get the same back. For dual-faced cards they have to print a sheet that has to match both sides every time, one mismatch and then pretty much everything after would be wrong. If they all have the same exact back there aren't any misses. If tokens miss, doesn't matter if they match. The problem isn't so much that they can't match every sheet every time. The problem is the extra time and cost to do so. If they were to do something like that consistently we would have to pay even more than we already do for product for Wizards to keep the same profit margin or whatever.
This just made me think that maybe the solution is just print the sheets at 100% one card. Would keep the issues minimal I would think. For this product it's fixed distribution so it'd be easy to do this way I would think.
I think that would just switch the extra work from making sure sheets line up to making sure packs are randomized and decks are collated correctly. It would be extra work either way.
This just made me think that maybe the solution is just print the sheets at 100% one card. Would keep the issues minimal I would think. For this product it's fixed distribution so it'd be easy to do this way I would think.
*shrug* I get people telling me "maybe the solution is just..." all the time. Sometimes they know what they're talking about, most of the time they just don't.
I mean, obviously WotC can print DFCs and get them right. It just costs more time and money than normal cards. So they'll do it when they think they have an idea that makes it worthwhile, and otherwise not.
They're already printing dual faced tokens. And I think they found an easier way to print them when they did the flip walkers.
MaRo says dual-faced tokens are easier because they don't have to match the fronts and backs (that's why i got one that's a dragon on both sides ), but it's much more difficult to make actual dual-faced cards because it's so much harder/more expensive to match the sides. i doubt we get dual-faced cards in supplemental products any time soon.
Huh?
What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
In order match both sides, side b would have to be mirrored. I.e. side a is 1,2,3,4 side b would have to be 4,3,2,1.
Having created a lot of press sheets for card games - I can tell you that it should be trivial to get DFCs on the same sheet. I've never been charged more for having a different back print sheet. If the presses aren't full duplex already, the operators know how to insert the paper properly for the second sheet.
I straight up want a lot of shard-colored spells and 4-colored spells to warrant the use of a 4-colored commander at the helm. Some of the nephilims' powers are so broken (Yore-Tiller Nephilim and Ink-Treader Nephilim) that I hope they get functionally reprinted onto a legendary creature as well as being included in their respected deck. I want these decks to have functional cards in those color combinations and not good stuff. I don't want it to be some halfassed attempt at doing something that's been asked for for so many years. I just hope to get a legendary creature - really hope - that has Yore-Tiller's and Ink-Treader's ability so that I can legit have them as commander for my deck instead of having to ask the pod's permission to use them.
They should also balance out the land availability. I want shard-color lair lands like the dragons (Rith, Treva, Darigaaz, etc.) had. I want shard panoramas. I want enemy tango lands. WotC always misses opportunities to do these things (didn't make shard lairs with the first commander product which, coincidentally, included those dragons (Intet and the others) when they could've made mana fixing easier.
You genuinely want 5 of their 56 new card slots to be common shard lands? Why? I want them to make things I haven't seen before. There is so little room for innovation in these products that I don't want them using that room to complete a common cycle of lands
I have no idea what exactly their printing process is, but I believe the problem is it takes multiple sheets of different fronts to print any given product. If all the sheets have the same back then that's easy, no need to make sure Front A gets back A and so on. All sheets get the same back. For dual-faced cards they have to print a sheet that has to match both sides every time, one mismatch and then pretty much everything after would be wrong. If they all have the same exact back there aren't any misses. If tokens miss, doesn't matter if they match. The problem isn't so much that they can't match every sheet every time. The problem is the extra time and cost to do so. If they were to do something like that consistently we would have to pay even more than we already do for product for Wizards to keep the same profit margin or whatever.
The reason is that in order to make the set as cost effective as possible you want as few plate changes as you can have and as few sheets as possible since you generally are paying by the sheet. You also want as few passes though the die cutters as possible, which means as few printed sheets as you can manage. When you do dual faced cards what you want to happen is that you make as many as it takes for a full sheet of stock (or a half sheet they can do twice). That is a more delicate equation that you might think because cards appear on a sheet dependent on their rarity in order to minimize sheet count.
With tokens, since the the back and fronts don't really pertain to each other and the rarity of them is the same, you can just fill up a sheet (both sides) as needed. For example let's say that there were a 100 cards per sheet (I know it is more than that) but design wants to include 6 different tokens. That is not an issue since the math need not evenly distribute and they are all the same rarity. You want to reduce the number of plate changes on the press because whenever you do that it is more time and more proofing because color and position can vary after each can change. You want to dial it in and be done with it. The math does not fit cleanly but all they have to do with tokens is put as many on one side as will fit and continue from that point on the other until you fill the sheet. You will end up with a remainder of 4 spots so you just put 4 more divided however you want. With DFC you need to have the exact right amount so that the sheet is full without any remainders.
Please Wizards get it out of the product! EDH is a 99-card deck, not 98-card deck.
Never really understood the hate for sol ring personally, it's cheap (thanks to forced reprints) mana fixing that nearly anyone can own now. Sure, seeing a turn one sol ring can be annoying, especially when partial parish was allowed, but there was always an unspoken rule in my meta to target that person first. Beyond that, is there something else I'm missing? Obviously not meant as an attack, just curious more than anything!
Any consideration to the idea that they could put in a PW commander or two into this release? I'd think there is a lot of propensity for older, possibly pre-revisionist-inclusive options.
We could see an Urza card for the non-Green deck, possibly? That's my biggest hope, since PW cards are defined as a fraction of the walkers' power so it's not terribly far fetched... Is it?
I was exploring what mechanic themes they might pull off here a while back, might be relevant food for thought. Eldrazi are another decent candidate for the non-white group, it's kind of unfortunate in that respect that Eldrazi Displacer is good.
It would also be sweet if a WUBR guy could pull off the four celestial animals.
Hey, I'm sure other people have worked on 4-color Commander sets and whatnot, I see at least one other attempt by Lef on the front page of the forum right now. I don't know if this thread is going to actually make many cards, but I was trying to figure out if there are any mechanics that are actually limited to all but one color, or close to that. We might then be able to use those examples to inform some themes for Commander sets or factions in a full set or something. I know the arguments that 4-color is close to meaningless, just trying to scrape any signs of meaning out of the existing card pool.
Basically, I'm trying to come up with a list of mechanics (broadly defined) that appear exclusively or almost exclusively in 4 colors, plus maybe some that only appear in 3 colors but could reasonably be extended to one but not both of the other colors. I'm focusing on the Modern card pool to try to weed out weird bleeds.
WUBR Flying
Green gets flying bleed fairly often, but the other colors get it pretty much every set. Not a very good tip to build anything around, but I guess a faction or commanders in this combination could use flying. Imprint
Has never appeared in black or green, but black is quite a bit more likely to exile cards in general, and some of the artifacts like Mimic Vat feel pretty black. A focus on manipulating exiled cards works well for the not-green group since green is the most earthy and grounded, whereas exile kind of represents abstraction and being removed from the natural order. Rebound
Green has only Prey's Vengeance, while black has two rebound cards. I don't think there is anything mechanical or flavorful to keep rebound out of green though, except that green is the most creature-focused and this is a spell mechanic. Gain control
Green only has Gilt-Leaf Archdruid in the modern pool, and its reliance on destiny means it wants you to make do with what you have in your own deck. White is sparse, but all of the nongreen colors are capable of stealing stuff.
In general it feels like this group should have smaller, evasive creatures, with good spell support in removal and tricks. It can exploit your resources by exiling or stealing them. A civilized but volatile group.
UBRG Drawing
White gets cantrips and occasionally draw triggers for things it likes to do, but all the other colors are better at drawing in their various ways. Madness
White, blue and green are tied at 2 madness cards each, but I think blue has a lot more "mad scientist" flavor and is far better mechanically at cycling through cards and UG Madness was an actual deck. I can't really think of any good reason for green to have madness though, unless you reflavor it a bit as recycling or making use of discarded stuff. Undying
This is slightly surprising since white gets some kinds of reanimation, but I guess it never got any actual undying cards, basically to reinforce the white humans vs other monsters in Innistrad. Mana Manipulation
Red and green are the main colors to ramp or ritual into mana, but black and blue also have histories of manipulating mana types and gaining mana from nonland sources. White only rarely can search out some lands, usually with an equality stipulation. Delve could extend from Sultai into red easily.
Based on the ideas above, this group should be churning through a lot of cards finding the best ones, but also having plenty of ways to take advantage of its spent resources. Mid to large sized creatures, a lot of organic growth fueled by dark and dangerous secrets.
BRGW Destroy
Blue basically never destroys anything, except in Polymorph and cards with related flavor. This group could have triggers off of the actual destroy action, or more broadly on things going to the graveyard from the battlefield. First strike
A couple of weird mono-green examples put this here, but I don't know if it's much to go with. I guess the idea is that blue doesn't care too much about combat damage; infect, wither, lifelink, and for the most part trample also fall in this group. Intimidate
Obsolete, but I guess with Spectral Rider it technically fits here. Menace kind of works but isn't particularly white. Echo
There is only one mono-blue echo card, and echo kind of goes against blue's philosophy of planning ahead and using resources well. Convoke Chief Engineer is blue's only convoke card, and doesn't have it itself. I don't think this one is particularly good since blue seems like it could have reasonable flavor of working together on convoke, or exploiting the tricky nature of convoke for counterspells and whatnot. I guess blue is the worst at making tokens, so the other colors have more inconsequential bodies around to use for convoking.
This group is most focused on the battlefield. It wants to get a lot of its own things there as quickly as possible, and remove other people's stuff. Go wide and stay on the offensive. A reckless, instinctual horde, perhaps bound together through unquestioned religion or dogma.
RGWU Soulbond Miracle
The color balance in Avacyn Restored gave us these two options. Soulbond is a great fit since black only trusts itself, but the other colors are willing to forge meaningful relationships. Black is probably better at top of deck manipulation and drawing than white is mechanically, so it's basically only flavor that put miracle in these colors. Provoke
Only here because of Greater Morphling, and would probably fit better in the non-black group.
This one is a bit tough to figure out based on what I have found so far. I guess these colors as a group are looking for synergy, so things like Slivers and Allies fit well. Share with the whole group instead of focusing on one individual. There is room for individuality and improvement, but a majority focus, so perhaps something like a democracy would fit.
GWUB Exalted
This is the one that prompted this line of thought. After appearing on Bant and then jumping to black in M13, exalted has appeared everywhere except red. This makes pretty good sense. White is all about volunteering to help the group, and black exalted can either be pulling all the attention to themselves or flavored as servant type creatures. Blue has no problem contributing to another for strategic advantage, and I guess green exalted is just about natural cooperation and the mechanics of pumping a big attacker. Red, being the most individual-focused, just wants to do what it wants to do without worrying about the social constraints of being expected to help out another attacker, and mechanically it usually wants to put out a lot of guys and attack all at once. Red is much more about the infectious emotion of combat, not calculating the benefit of having one person go to battle. Hexproof/Shroud Xathrid Slyblade gives black one entry here and white has a couple of things that give you hexproof or can get hexproof as kind of a protection-lite. Red has no hexproof cards at all. I'm not entirely sure what to make of this, I guess red just isn't very careful about protecting itself. Enchantment bonuses
Enchantments are red's major blindspot or weakness, but the other colors all have various rewards for playing enchantments, but red has almost none outside of the thematic bleed for Forgeborn Oreads.
This group of colors focuses on building up and protecting one powerful threat, through contributions from other creatures, Auras, etc. A strict hierarchical society, working for the benefit of a single or few powerful entities. They also seek to limit the freedom of their opponents through rules and denial.
Here's hoping they include at least a couple of exciting legendary creatures for each colour combination. They don't need to be powerful, just exciting. After this product, how long will it be before we see more 4-C cards?
Ravnica Nephilim are seriously underpowered by today's standard, so a lot of people are really anticipating this.
My guess is that as Sol Ring is almost mandatory in every deck - regardless of color and theme of deck - people feel you can only really pick 98 cards for your library rather than 99 as not playing Sol Ring will always feel like voluntarily play at an obvious and easily avoidable disadvantage. My group simply doesn't play Sol Ring so as to be able to play one more card that fits the deck's idea rather than being there exlusively for efficiency reasons.
To be fair, it's one card. I've played plenty of games with a Ring in my deck and never drew it. Sure, you can tutor for it with a Trinket Mage or Fabricate, but by that point you've missed the optimal turn 1 play. I see the Ring more as a perk for those who want a 1-100 chance of drawing it in their opening hand.
I hear you though on not relying on the Ring and instead focusing on the deck that makes you happy.
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Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
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You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
They're already printing dual faced tokens. And I think they found an easier way to print them when they did the flip walkers.
MaRo says dual-faced tokens are easier because they don't have to match the fronts and backs (that's why i got one that's a dragon on both sides ), but it's much more difficult to make actual dual-faced cards because it's so much harder/more expensive to match the sides. i doubt we get dual-faced cards in supplemental products any time soon.
I think you may be misremembering another quote when MaRo stated the actual problem with the backsides: They use different ink/material for card fronts and card backs. And since tokens do not have the same high quality standards as cards that are actually placed in your deck (and usually use very consistent card backs) the printing of tokens with different quality on the two sides is no issue compared to doing the same with a card that has to have the same quality as your normal SFCs.
Or maybe there are issues on both sides, but modern printing tech should not have a problem with duplex printing - not at the level Magic is produced.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
They should also balance out the land availability. I want shard-color lair lands like the dragons (Rith, Treva, Darigaaz, etc.) had. I want shard panoramas. I want enemy tango lands. WotC always misses opportunities to do these things (didn't make shard lairs with the first commander product which, coincidentally, included those dragons (Intet and the others) when they could've made mana fixing easier. They'll probably include all of the available common lands that give multiple colors (guildgates, tri-colored tapped lands, panoramas, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Alara and Tarkir lifelands, or some of the common lands that can give any color (filter lands), and a bunch of basics) which would suck but I wouldn't want rare slots and uncommon slots being wasted on lands, to be honest. It would be cool to finally have a 4-colored land, that would be neat.
Other things I'd like: UBGR legend that's a shapeshifter with a lot of cool abilities so I can finally make a deck that only has clones. That would be awesome. My deck would literally be only as good as my opponents', lol. That would be so fun and difficult to pilot. A guy can dream...
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MaRo says dual-faced tokens are easier because they don't have to match the fronts and backs (that's why i got one that's a dragon on both sides ), but it's much more difficult to make actual dual-faced cards because it's so much harder/more expensive to match the sides. i doubt we get dual-faced cards in supplemental products any time soon.
Huh?
What does he mean match sides? It's pretty easy, you have a layout and it's always the same. Same way tokens would be done. No idea how tokens could be easier...
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EDH:
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BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
That's still an extra factor you have to be concerned about though: the back side staying in perfect synch with the front. Normally, that's not an issue, as the back side is always a Magic card back.
Tokens don't have this concern, because it doesn't particularly matter if your Saproling Token has a 3/3 Beast or a 2/2 Wolf on the other side.
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But you have a layout. There is no way they would be SO off center that they could be a full card off. Token or regular card, you have to have them lined up correctly.
Not like they are letting out tokens that have a back that is half wolf half elephant.
Currently Playing:
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Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
It's not about being off-center. It's about laying them out correctly in the first place, which is impossible to screw up when all the backs are the same, and not a big deal to screw up with tokens, but a critically important and not-actually-trivial thing when you need to make sure every specific back ends up with its specific front.
Every sheet has a layout, it seems that you just have to check to make sure that the beginning of the sheet/roll are lined up.
1 2 3
4 5 6
7 8 9
lines up with
3 2 1
6 5 4
9 8 7
I know you can't have perfect quality control, but it seems like the machine could check this each run. :shrugs:
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I have no idea what exactly their printing process is, but I believe the problem is it takes multiple sheets of different fronts to print any given product. If all the sheets have the same back then that's easy, no need to make sure Front A gets back A and so on. All sheets get the same back. For dual-faced cards they have to print a sheet that has to match both sides every time, one mismatch and then pretty much everything after would be wrong. If they all have the same exact back there aren't any misses. If tokens miss, doesn't matter if they match. The problem isn't so much that they can't match every sheet every time. The problem is the extra time and cost to do so. If they were to do something like that consistently we would have to pay even more than we already do for product for Wizards to keep the same profit margin or whatever.
This just made me think that maybe the solution is just print the sheets at 100% one card. Would keep the issues minimal I would think. For this product it's fixed distribution so it'd be easy to do this way I would think.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
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I think that would just switch the extra work from making sure sheets line up to making sure packs are randomized and decks are collated correctly. It would be extra work either way.
*shrug* I get people telling me "maybe the solution is just..." all the time. Sometimes they know what they're talking about, most of the time they just don't.
I mean, obviously WotC can print DFCs and get them right. It just costs more time and money than normal cards. So they'll do it when they think they have an idea that makes it worthwhile, and otherwise not.
In order match both sides, side b would have to be mirrored. I.e. side a is 1,2,3,4 side b would have to be 4,3,2,1.
Custom Set
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hu9uNBSUt92PwGhvexYlwFvsh6_SJBlEEIUV3H9_XyU/edit?usp=sharing
You genuinely want 5 of their 56 new card slots to be common shard lands? Why? I want them to make things I haven't seen before. There is so little room for innovation in these products that I don't want them using that room to complete a common cycle of lands
The reason is that in order to make the set as cost effective as possible you want as few plate changes as you can have and as few sheets as possible since you generally are paying by the sheet. You also want as few passes though the die cutters as possible, which means as few printed sheets as you can manage. When you do dual faced cards what you want to happen is that you make as many as it takes for a full sheet of stock (or a half sheet they can do twice). That is a more delicate equation that you might think because cards appear on a sheet dependent on their rarity in order to minimize sheet count.
With tokens, since the the back and fronts don't really pertain to each other and the rarity of them is the same, you can just fill up a sheet (both sides) as needed. For example let's say that there were a 100 cards per sheet (I know it is more than that) but design wants to include 6 different tokens. That is not an issue since the math need not evenly distribute and they are all the same rarity. You want to reduce the number of plate changes on the press because whenever you do that it is more time and more proofing because color and position can vary after each can change. You want to dial it in and be done with it. The math does not fit cleanly but all they have to do with tokens is put as many on one side as will fit and continue from that point on the other until you fill the sheet. You will end up with a remainder of 4 spots so you just put 4 more divided however you want. With DFC you need to have the exact right amount so that the sheet is full without any remainders.
Reprint Opt for Modern!!
FREE DIG THOROUGH TIME!
PLAY MORE ROUGE DECKS!
Please Wizards get it out of the product! EDH is a 99-card deck, not 98-card deck.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
I would rather have Sol Ring banned than have it leave the precon decks. That card would sky rocket in price if it weren't for all of the reprints.
I would like for Sol Ring to have its original art this time though.
Never really understood the hate for sol ring personally, it's cheap (thanks to forced reprints) mana fixing that nearly anyone can own now. Sure, seeing a turn one sol ring can be annoying, especially when partial parish was allowed, but there was always an unspoken rule in my meta to target that person first. Beyond that, is there something else I'm missing? Obviously not meant as an attack, just curious more than anything!
We could see an Urza card for the non-Green deck, possibly? That's my biggest hope, since PW cards are defined as a fraction of the walkers' power so it's not terribly far fetched... Is it?
~Lil Kalki
Proud Disciple of the Church of the Wary
It would also be sweet if a WUBR guy could pull off the four celestial animals.
Ravnica Nephilim are seriously underpowered by today's standard, so a lot of people are really anticipating this.
They will almost certainly reprint sol ring if for no other reason than to get a <><> version into circulations.
375 unpowered cube - https://cubecobra.com/cube/list/601ac624832cdf1039947588
Legendary Creature - Spirit
(flavor text)
4/6
To be fair, it's one card. I've played plenty of games with a Ring in my deck and never drew it. Sure, you can tutor for it with a Trinket Mage or Fabricate, but by that point you've missed the optimal turn 1 play. I see the Ring more as a perk for those who want a 1-100 chance of drawing it in their opening hand.
I hear you though on not relying on the Ring and instead focusing on the deck that makes you happy.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
I think you may be misremembering another quote when MaRo stated the actual problem with the backsides: They use different ink/material for card fronts and card backs. And since tokens do not have the same high quality standards as cards that are actually placed in your deck (and usually use very consistent card backs) the printing of tokens with different quality on the two sides is no issue compared to doing the same with a card that has to have the same quality as your normal SFCs.
Or maybe there are issues on both sides, but modern printing tech should not have a problem with duplex printing - not at the level Magic is produced.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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