As someone who plays mostly casual/cube/casual cube, EDH only abilities like partner really don't excite me, and neither do multiplayer only abilities like undaunted. That said, partner is a clever way to do 4 color decks that none of us foresaw, and as long as there are 4 color legends as well, I really don't mind. Most of the partner guys look pretty fun for casual build-arounds too. So far, I'll say everything spoiled is pretty welcome. Klydele, Chosen of Kruphix does look like it could turn oppressive, but all in all, I'm quite happy.
As someone who plays mostly casual/cube/casual cube, EDH only abilities like partner really don't excite me, and neither do multiplayer only abilities like undaunted. That said, partner is a clever way to do 4 color decks that none of us foresaw, and as long as there are 4 color legends as well, I really don't mind. Most of the partner guys look pretty fun for casual build-arounds too. So far, I'll say everything spoiled is pretty welcome. Klydele, Chosen of Kruphix does look like it could turn oppressive, but all in all, I'm quite happy.
I have a hypothesis as to how the Commanders in C16 will work: Rather than give us a single four-color commander, we'll get pairs of two-color legends that can be co-commanders, allowing you to have two commanders at once, combining their color identities together. Each deck has one ally legend and one enemy legend, representing all ten pairs in total. These two-color legends can be mixed-and-matched to create any three or four-color combination.
While this is a neat idea and a possibility knowing Wizard's penchant for changing things up, it is unlikely these would happen. First, it messes with the very core of Commander rules (1 Legendary creature to be the Commander) more than anything else. Even Planeswalker generals were still only one card. To mess with the formula of "99 + 1" creates a lot of confusion for very little gain.
Second, there has been a fairly vocal subset of people wanting 4 color generals and your idea doesn't really give them that. Knowing how many people ask MaRo on his blog if they would just errata the Nephilim to be Legendary, I have to believe they know that people want true 4 color generals. They can do this by making them cost all 4 colors or cost 2 colors and have activated abilities for the other 2 colors (or both hopefully) and a number of other options. With this in mind, they will almost certainly make sure each 4 color combination has at least one stand alone card to be the general.
I included my response to Manite just so s/he could say "I told you so" In any case, Manite seemed to be spot on with this prediction and I misjudged Wizards regarding "shaking things up". I do like the new "Partner" commanders, but I just feel that we lost an opportunity to get 10 "true" 4-color generals instead of just 5.
As someone who plays mostly casual/cube/casual cube, EDH only abilities like partner really don't excite me, and neither do multiplayer only abilities like undaunted. That said, partner is a clever way to do 4 color decks that none of us foresaw, and as long as there are 4 color legends as well, I really don't mind. Most of the partner guys look pretty fun for casual build-arounds too. So far, I'll say everything spoiled is pretty welcome. Klydele, Chosen of Kruphix does look like it could turn oppressive, but all in all, I'm quite happy.
I have a hypothesis as to how the Commanders in C16 will work: Rather than give us a single four-color commander, we'll get pairs of two-color legends that can be co-commanders, allowing you to have two commanders at once, combining their color identities together. Each deck has one ally legend and one enemy legend, representing all ten pairs in total. These two-color legends can be mixed-and-matched to create any three or four-color combination.
While this is a neat idea and a possibility knowing Wizard's penchant for changing things up, it is unlikely these would happen. First, it messes with the very core of Commander rules (1 Legendary creature to be the Commander) more than anything else. Even Planeswalker generals were still only one card. To mess with the formula of "99 + 1" creates a lot of confusion for very little gain.
Second, there has been a fairly vocal subset of people wanting 4 color generals and your idea doesn't really give them that. Knowing how many people ask MaRo on his blog if they would just errata the Nephilim to be Legendary, I have to believe they know that people want true 4 color generals. They can do this by making them cost all 4 colors or cost 2 colors and have activated abilities for the other 2 colors (or both hopefully) and a number of other options. With this in mind, they will almost certainly make sure each 4 color combination has at least one stand alone card to be the general.
I included my response to Manite just so s/he could say "I told you so" In any case, Manite seemed to be spot on with this prediction and I misjudged Wizards regarding "shaking things up". I do like the new "Partner" commanders, but I just feel that we lost an opportunity to get 10 "true" 4-color generals instead of just 5.
Hmm... It looks like instead of the monocolor uncommons (Vow cycle from Commander 1, Myriad creatures from Commander 15, etc) we'll have the uncommon allied cards with basic landcycling (meaning each deck gets 3).
Partner seems to be something that is very easily abused - or the powerlevel of individual cards needs to be actually subpar. But having not 1, but two commanders is means you can do so many more combos.
I'm wondering though - how does it work with commander tax?
Also with amount of keywords atraxa, praetor's voice got she lends herself perfectly for a voltron deck? Heck even without that proliferate she is quite mana efficient and "good stuff". And, did they just print a card with flanking? I thought that was retired long ago.
10 years ago Flanking retired, but now the Phyrexians stole it's child so it's back.
Guys, I like the most the fact that decks have a theme. I hope 100% of cards inside that deck will do well with that theme but also offer variance for other stuff (parts) like they did last year.
I hope they will play well out of the box but still offer useful upgrades for different decks. No ~maren~ commander yet as power level...
I think Atraxa has a shot to be. She is in the Right Colors to do super friends, has proliferate to push walkers towards ultimates, and acts as a nice wall to discourage people swinging at your walkers, she may not be as techy with it as Narset who can just dump planeswalkers into play however Atraxa is a fair bit cheaper to cast and brings in blue, so all the Jaces!
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
YES! Thank you for posting! Where did you discover this by the way? Beautiful artwork! I love it! THEROS! I love how the Guardians are being constructed in the background.
Two questions though:
1. Which one is Tiro and which is Kyanios? Hopefully a Magic Story will reveal that in the coming week(s)!
2. This raises a question I've had about Theros - why is one of the Kings Black? It makes sense if Theros represents not just Greek Mythology, but geographically encompasses what Ancient Greece also encompassed, which was the Mediterranean including North Africa. If that's the case, it makes sense that Theros has black people too and not just Greek-appearing populace (such as the king on the right, or Gideon, etc.) But if that's the case, I really hope Return to Theros includes more geography, more city-states beyond the three we've seen. Granted Theros has other little ones like Iretis and all but really, they should add more area to the region and settlements.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
I hope we find out soon which one is which. The Greek one is my favorite - a gay Mediterranean man just like me! The only thing closer would be a gay male from Roman World, since Italian is closer genetically but yeah, you get it.
Guys, I like the most the fact that decks have a theme. I hope 100% of cards inside that deck will do well with that theme but also offer variance for other stuff (parts) like they did last year.
I hope they will play well out of the box but still offer useful upgrades for different decks. No ~maren~ commander yet as power level...
I think Atraxa has a shot to be. She is in the Right Colors to do super friends, has proliferate to push walkers towards ultimates, and acts as a nice wall to discourage people swinging at your walkers, she may not be as techy with it as Narset who can just dump planeswalkers into play however Atraxa is a fair bit cheaper to cast and brings in blue, so all the Jaces!
I wasn't under the impression that Super Friends is reasonably competitive? Meren was pretty strong with just slight tuneups (she's, what, tier 2? Not as crazy as Karador, but around the level of Ghave, Guru of Spores?) so I don't see Atraxa Super Friends hitting the same level as Meren, at least not right out the gate.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
Indeed, I think trying to model it too closely on real life states brings the risk of digging themselves into the quagmire of expansionism, the Colonial era, etc., so they're unlikely to really get too much into "this is the "Africa" continent of the plane."
Why are there black people(Kings) on Theros? Cause there are(is), simple as that. No need for potentially messy real-life analogues.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
Assuming planets like Earth on different planes, this makes sense. If there are areas of more intense sunlight, folks living in those areas would presumably evolve darker skin. Alternatively or additionally, people living in areas with less intense sunlight would evolve lighter skin, depending on vitamin D levels in diet.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
Assuming planets like Earth on different planes, this makes sense. If there are areas of more intense sunlight, folks living in those areas would presumably evolve darker skin. Alternatively or additionally, people living in areas with less intense sunlight would evolve lighter skin, depending on vitamin D levels in diet.
2. This raises a question I've had about Theros - why is one of the Kings Black? It makes sense if Theros represents not just Greek Mythology, but geographically encompasses what Ancient Greece also encompassed, which was the Mediterranean including North Africa. If that's the case, it makes sense that Theros has black people too and not just Greek-appearing populace (such as the king on the right, or Gideon, etc.) But if that's the case, I really hope Return to Theros includes more geography, more city-states beyond the three we've seen. Granted Theros has other little ones like Iretis and all but really, they should add more area to the region and settlements.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
First of all Theros isn't ancient or mythical Greece, it's a fantasy plane with some inspiration from ancient and mythical Greece. Second, the ancient Greeks knew about black skinned Africans and some named characters from ancient Greek literature, including kings, are identified as such. Wikipedia on Aethiopia. I agree that it would be cool to see a more geographically diverse return to Theros. Much of what is popularly known of ancient greece is after all from the interaction between the greeks and their neighbours; the odyssey, the persian wars, the conquests of Alexander, etc.
Back to the art. Notice how the king on the right is wearing a helmet, and holding a second helmet. That, to me, implies that he removed the helmet of the other king so he could caress his neck and hair. I think that's a very nice way to hint of tenderness in an image of two warrior kings in armor.
A friend was commenting that he didn't get why partner was exciting to people. I thought about it a bit, and it seems worth mentioning that it is as though, rather than just printing 15 commanders with partner, Wotc printed an additional 105 commanders. Now, some of those 105 combinations are lacking heavily in synergy, but still, 120 new commanders all together in one product is pretty freaking wild.
*edit* It may also be worth mentioning that playing Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis is likely to be how I come out to my edh playgroup. There's also probably a 25% chance it's how I end up not playing with them any longer. I am not looking forward to the "jokes" I can expect to hear.
2. This raises a question I've had about Theros - why is one of the Kings Black? It makes sense if Theros represents not just Greek Mythology, but geographically encompasses what Ancient Greece also encompassed, which was the Mediterranean including North Africa. If that's the case, it makes sense that Theros has black people too and not just Greek-appearing populace (such as the king on the right, or Gideon, etc.) But if that's the case, I really hope Return to Theros includes more geography, more city-states beyond the three we've seen. Granted Theros has other little ones like Iretis and all but really, they should add more area to the region and settlements.
There are black people in Theros and generally in every plane. It think is something standard in Wizards. Maybe they were afraid that not including a non white male would cause some complaints (???) I don't know I know I love them.
First of all Theros isn't ancient or mythical Greece, it's a fantasy plane with some inspiration from ancient and mythical Greece. Second, the ancient Greeks knew about black skinned Africans and some named characters from ancient Greek literature, including kings, are identified as such. Wikipedia on Aethiopia. I agree that it would be cool to see a more geographically diverse return to Theros. Much of what is popularly known of ancient greece is after all from the interaction between the greeks and their neighbours; the odyssey, the persian wars, the conquests of Alexander, etc.
Back to the art. Notice how the king on the right is wearing a helmet, and holding a second helmet. That, to me, implies that he removed the helmet of the other king so he could caress his neck and hair. I think that's a very nice way to hint of tenderness in an image of two warrior kings in armor.
I really love that detail in the art. It's such a small but natural display of affection. I tend to be touchy in little ways with all the people I care about. Kiss the top of my mom's head (she's like 6-8in shorter than me), rub a hand across someone's back as I pass. Run my fingers through my nephew's hair when he's being adorable (or tickle his face when he's being pouty). Little things you may not even notice that you do can have and convey a lot of meaning. It's nice to see something like that included.
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Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
I included my response to Manite just so s/he could say "I told you so" In any case, Manite seemed to be spot on with this prediction and I misjudged Wizards regarding "shaking things up". I do like the new "Partner" commanders, but I just feel that we lost an opportunity to get 10 "true" 4-color generals instead of just 5.
Impressive speculation, Manite
Low-power cube enthusiast!
My 1570 card cube (no longer updated)
My 415 Peasant+ Artifact and Enchantment Cube
Ever-Expanding "Just throw it in" cube.
10 years ago Flanking retired, but now the Phyrexians stole it's child so it's back.
And This time, its PERSONAL. -cocks gun-
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
I think Atraxa has a shot to be. She is in the Right Colors to do super friends, has proliferate to push walkers towards ultimates, and acts as a nice wall to discourage people swinging at your walkers, she may not be as techy with it as Narset who can just dump planeswalkers into play however Atraxa is a fair bit cheaper to cast and brings in blue, so all the Jaces!
Dragons of Legend, Lead by Scion of the UR-Dragon
The Gitrog Monster
Gonti, Lord of Luxury
Shogun Saskia
Hive World
Atraxa hates fun
Abzan
Ooh, not just gay, but interracial
My dad would have a seizure.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Two questions though:
1. Which one is Tiro and which is Kyanios? Hopefully a Magic Story will reveal that in the coming week(s)!
2. This raises a question I've had about Theros - why is one of the Kings Black? It makes sense if Theros represents not just Greek Mythology, but geographically encompasses what Ancient Greece also encompassed, which was the Mediterranean including North Africa. If that's the case, it makes sense that Theros has black people too and not just Greek-appearing populace (such as the king on the right, or Gideon, etc.) But if that's the case, I really hope Return to Theros includes more geography, more city-states beyond the three we've seen. Granted Theros has other little ones like Iretis and all but really, they should add more area to the region and settlements.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I want both of them!
(the capes, I mean...)
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I wasn't under the impression that Super Friends is reasonably competitive? Meren was pretty strong with just slight tuneups (she's, what, tier 2? Not as crazy as Karador, but around the level of Ghave, Guru of Spores?) so I don't see Atraxa Super Friends hitting the same level as Meren, at least not right out the gate.
I could be wrong, I guess.
Sig and Avatar drawn by me.
Indeed, I think trying to model it too closely on real life states brings the risk of digging themselves into the quagmire of expansionism, the Colonial era, etc., so they're unlikely to really get too much into "this is the "Africa" continent of the plane."
Why are there black people(Kings) on Theros? Cause there are(is), simple as that. No need for potentially messy real-life analogues.
What type of chaos is it?
Hopefully we get that commander shown today.
No that doesn't count from that one forum you can't see what his card saids the only thing likely is cascade
Besides I was talking about the full art of the card.
Assuming planets like Earth on different planes, this makes sense. If there are areas of more intense sunlight, folks living in those areas would presumably evolve darker skin. Alternatively or additionally, people living in areas with less intense sunlight would evolve lighter skin, depending on vitamin D levels in diet.
Anyways, I can't wait to see exactly what Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis do. That art is stunning.
It's a group hug commander so expect stuf vaguely simular to Phelddagrif
First of all Theros isn't ancient or mythical Greece, it's a fantasy plane with some inspiration from ancient and mythical Greece. Second, the ancient Greeks knew about black skinned Africans and some named characters from ancient Greek literature, including kings, are identified as such. Wikipedia on Aethiopia. I agree that it would be cool to see a more geographically diverse return to Theros. Much of what is popularly known of ancient greece is after all from the interaction between the greeks and their neighbours; the odyssey, the persian wars, the conquests of Alexander, etc.
Back to the art. Notice how the king on the right is wearing a helmet, and holding a second helmet. That, to me, implies that he removed the helmet of the other king so he could caress his neck and hair. I think that's a very nice way to hint of tenderness in an image of two warrior kings in armor.
Based on this thread the theory is that if Yidris (the 4 color commander) deals combat damage to a player, spells cast from your hand gain cascade
Standard - Some kind of control
Modern - UB Mill (casual)
EDH - Meren's Grave Shenanigans
*edit* It may also be worth mentioning that playing Kynaios and Tiro of Meletis is likely to be how I come out to my edh playgroup. There's also probably a 25% chance it's how I end up not playing with them any longer. I am not looking forward to the "jokes" I can expect to hear.
I really love that detail in the art. It's such a small but natural display of affection. I tend to be touchy in little ways with all the people I care about. Kiss the top of my mom's head (she's like 6-8in shorter than me), rub a hand across someone's back as I pass. Run my fingers through my nephew's hair when he's being adorable (or tickle his face when he's being pouty). Little things you may not even notice that you do can have and convey a lot of meaning. It's nice to see something like that included.