MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Doubt they'll be a single strategy instead of the usual mess of 2+, wouldn't be surprised if they have a strategy for the "main color", one for it's enemy shard, and one for the whole. WUBR Stax/Removal/Artifacts UBRG Countermagic/Goodstuff/Polymorphs BRGW Grave Manipulation/Stompy/Reanimator RGWU Randomness/Exalted/Voltron GWUB Ramp/Prison/Control
I have a hypothesis as to how the Commanders in C16 will work: Rather than give us a single four-color commander, we'll get pairs of two-color legends that can be co-commanders, allowing you to have two commanders at once, combining their color identities together. Each deck has one ally legend and one enemy legend, representing all ten pairs in total. These two-color legends can be mixed-and-matched to create any three or four-color combination.
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I have a hypothesis as to how the Commanders in C16 will work: Rather than give us a single four-color commander, we'll get pairs of two-color legends that can be co-commanders, allowing you to have two commanders at once, combining their color identities together. Each deck has one ally legend and one enemy legend, representing all ten pairs in total. These two-color legends can be mixed-and-matched to create any three or four-color combination.
While this is a neat idea and a possibility knowing Wizard's penchant for changing things up, it is unlikely these would happen. First, it messes with the very core of Commander rules (1 Legendary creature to be the Commander) more than anything else. Even Planeswalker generals were still only one card. To mess with the formula of "99 + 1" creates a lot of confusion for very little gain.
Second, there has been a fairly vocal subset of people wanting 4 color generals and your idea doesn't really give them that. Knowing how many people ask MaRo on his blog if they would just errata the Nephilim to be Legendary, I have to believe they know that people want true 4 color generals. They can do this by making them cost all 4 colors or cost 2 colors and have activated abilities for the other 2 colors (or both hopefully) and a number of other options. With this in mind, they will almost certainly make sure each 4 color combination has at least one stand alone card to be the general.
I have a hypothesis as to how the Commanders in C16 will work: Rather than give us a single four-color commander, we'll get pairs of two-color legends that can be co-commanders, allowing you to have two commanders at once, combining their color identities together. Each deck has one ally legend and one enemy legend, representing all ten pairs in total. These two-color legends can be mixed-and-matched to create any three or four-color combination.
Another cool option would be a flip commander. Two colours on one side and two colours on the other and would stay flipped with alternate casting cost. That would make a totaly cool mechanic that would work in commander. Maybe have leige type effect, casting cost effect, ability effect, or even protection effect. And with a casting cost or board state flip criteria it would add a whole new dimention to the game. They could also make a merge commander that would become a super commander once other legendary alternate is on board. That could also be fun.
If they follow what what did last year we will get previews during the first week of November.
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“There are no weak Jews. I am descended from those who wrestle angels and kill giants. We were chosen by God. You were chosen by a pathetic little man who can't seem to grow a full mustache"
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
Man all these ideas are so cool! Too bad in the end wizards is going to really f this set up and fill it with boring basic/worthless cards with three or four chase cards. Their uninspired formula for making money is really starting to get boring
Man all these ideas are so cool! Too bad in the end wizards is going to really f this set up and fill it with boring basic/worthless cards with three or four chase cards. Their uninspired formula for making money is really starting to get boring
You must be fun at parties. I've actually been happy with all of the commander sets thus far.
'11 was fantastic, '13 was very good. '14 was boring and filled with missed opportunities, '15 outside of the commanders was the same. Also thanks for taking the time in your response to make a personal attack Mr. Internet anonymity
Man all these ideas are so cool! Too bad in the end wizards is going to really f this set up and fill it with boring basic/worthless cards with three or four chase cards. Their uninspired formula for making money is really starting to get boring
Commander has been the only product series that has been good after all these years. I'm talking about the precon decks of course. Sure 13 wasn't great and 15 was only slightly above average, but honestly this has been the only line of product we've gotten that has at least stayed decent among all of the other products that have had lower quality since their inception.
'11 was fantastic, '13 was very good. '14 was boring and filled with missed opportunities, '15 outside of the commanders was the same. Also thanks for taking the time in your response to make a personal attack Mr. Internet anonymity
If I had to rank them I would go.
11
14
15
13
Commander's Arsenal
13 is the lowest, minus Arsenal, because almost all of the decks were rather boring. I could still find 3 of the decks at my Wal-Mart well into mid 2015, because no one wanted them. Only two of them were decent and most of the newer cards were forgettable. 11 started it, so it might remain #1, but I think 14 was just as good as it in many regards. Sure 14 had one dud deck, but it did its job really well outside of that. 15 was average overall, had one hell of a dud deck, W/R Giants (what was the giant tribal all about, I mean really?). Nothing truly stood out about it, but it wasn't terrible either.
'11 was fantastic, '13 was very good. '14 was boring and filled with missed opportunities, '15 outside of the commanders was the same. Also thanks for taking the time in your response to make a personal attack Mr. Internet anonymity
I agree with this 100%. After 2014 I realized that Wizards was only going to cater to noobs with these decks and would never include a decent amount of needed reprints. These products are chuck full of junk rares that have been printed many times before and every veteran commander player owns already. Sol Ring is great and all, but do we really need to own 20 copies of the same artwork? Heaven forbid they replace it with cards that are only expensive because of extreme scarcity like Mana crypt or Portal staples.
The other problem is that when they design new commander staples that are good, they only include them in one or two decks. (eg - Command Beacon, Blade of Selves, Magus of the Wheel, Myriad Landscape (3), Arcane Lighthouse (3), Tempt with discovery) All-in-all, there is way too much junk in these decks. I'd prefer that they replace commander decks with a sealed commander product printed to demand if it means they would actually include some much needed format staples. (3.99 MSRP, not another overpriced masters set)
'11 was fantastic, '13 was very good. '14 was boring and filled with missed opportunities, '15 outside of the commanders was the same. Also thanks for taking the time in your response to make a personal attack Mr. Internet anonymity
14 was awesome, each of the decks had such a strong identity it made playing them as is a lot of fun. Plus they made mono-red the best and the most fun to play!
13 was the worst for me: one chase deck in terms of value and the rest were pretty straightforward. Some of the themes (Grixis spells, Bant ETB and Esper lifegain) weren't developed all that well.
However all the Commander releases have added some great cards to the format (and a good number of silly/lame/aggravating ones as well yes).
I agree with this 100%. After 2014 I realized that Wizards was only going to cater to noobs with these decks and would never include a decent amount of needed reprints. These products are chuck full of junk rares that have been printed many times before and every veteran commander player owns already. Sol Ring is great and all, but do we really need to own 20 copies of the same artwork? Heaven forbid they replace it with cards that are only expensive because of extreme scarcity like Mana crypt or Portal staples.
So once C14 came out you knew reprints would get worse? Sure C15 didn't bring it like C14, but C15 was far from bad.
The other problem is that when they design new commander staples that are good, they only include them in one or two decks. (eg - Command Beacon, Blade of Selves, Magus of the Wheel, Myriad Landscape (3), Arcane Lighthouse (3), Tempt with discovery) All-in-all, there is way too much junk in these decks. I'd prefer that they replace commander decks with a sealed commander product printed to demand if it means they would actually include some much needed format staples. (3.99 MSRP, not another overpriced masters set)
I'm all for a sealed Commander product, but the way they have been doing pure reprint sets the last few times have been awful and you know that they would try to make the boosters $10 because something like Snapcaster Mage is in it.
Yes, some of the cards you listed should have been uncommon to be in more decks, like Command Beacon, but I don't know how you can complain when a card shows up 3 times in one product. Compared to Masters, Duel Decks, FTVs, and Event Decks/Clash Packs the Commander series has been the only product to keep a steady level of quality. If there is one product that DOESN'T need to be changed it is Commander, and the only time they did change it it was kind of a disaster.
The problem with these products was exposed by Maro. They're bottom-up, not top-down.
Commander is casual and that's the domain of Vorthos, too. This is the only product where we can anticipate something cool and creative. This is where we can expect cardless characters, since evidently Return to Innistrad didn't deliver Jenrik, or Ludevic, or Hal and Alena, or basically anything except a re-hash of old characters getting a second round of cards. Maro says it's because new mechanics they design for Commander products don't always fit a past character that needs a card. Why design them that way then? It seems like a poor excuse and a failure on delivering what player's want. We ask when we can get these characters, the answer is in supplemental products. We ask why supplemental products don't have these characters, the answer is "because mechanics."
Did mechanics save the bland C15 product? That was among the worst series ever, especially since it was right after the best one, C14. I really thought that after C14 covering so much new and exciting ground I figured it was a new era of engaging products. Planeswalker Commanders, past Legends getting cards, Oldwalker characters, new and exciting themed cards.
I mean, if a casual product for casual players can't satisfy Vorthos, and won't have good reprints for anyone else, and boils down to being "bulk rares within the deck's colors" what's the point?
They don't even reveal these until forever, and the anticipation builds up - only to fall flat. They really need to stop relying on 5 new cards like Command Beacon selling an entire deck of bulk rares and random characters that mean nothing to Vorthos and illicit no excitement from anyone.
I agree with this 100%. After 2014 I realized that Wizards was only going to cater to noobs with these decks and would never include a decent amount of needed reprints. These products are chuck full of junk rares that have been printed many times before and every veteran commander player owns already. Sol Ring is great and all, but do we really need to own 20 copies of the same artwork? Heaven forbid they replace it with cards that are only expensive because of extreme scarcity like Mana crypt or Portal staples.
So once C14 came out you knew reprints would get worse? Sure C15 didn't bring it like C14, but C15 was far from bad.
I guess "decent amount" is all relative. You mention a few decent reprints but these are few and far between. We get maybe one or two per deck with the rest being junk rares. There isn't enough value for veteran commander players to justify buying all the decks. We are better off buying singles since most of the decks are filled with junk that only a new commander player would care about. It isn't necessarily a bad thing that these decks cater to new commander players. They just need something that caters to veteran players as well.
I think the main difference between Commander 2011 and 2013 with the last two sets is that back then, most Commander players didn't own 20 copies of Command Tower or Sol Ring so there was significant value to be gained by buying all the decks. I was thrilled when Commander 2013 came out because Sol Ring was sitting at $6-7 and Command Tower was at $5.
I hope this is the year WotC finally gives in and builds a decent mana base for the decks. Building a 4 color mana base isn't trivial, and even their 3 color ones were pretty sketchy. Is it really that hard to put checklands, filterlands, or shocklands into the decks? I don't understand why they go with the most budget lands possible.
I hope this is the year WotC finally gives in and builds a decent mana base for the decks. Building a 4 color mana base isn't trivial, and even their 3 color ones were pretty sketchy. Is it really that hard to put checklands, filterlands, or shocklands into the decks? I don't understand why they go with the most budget lands possible.
Because if they put expensive lands in them they get scooped up by people looking for value.
WotC wants people to introduce the format to players and get them to play with and update these decks, hard to achieve that if netdeckers swoop in and buy all the product they can thus making it scarcer and more expensive.
Because if they put expensive lands in them they get scooped up by people looking for value.
WotC wants people to introduce the format to players and get them to play with and update these decks, hard to achieve that if netdeckers swoop in and buy all the product they can thus making it scarcer and more expensive.
IIRC Commander products are not limited in their print run. If the first run sells out, they'll print more. I hardly think people are going to horde decks for a couple of filter lands, especially if each deck has its own respective one or two. It won't be like Commander 2013 where only the Grixis deck was impossible to find, because there's value in all of them. So even if hoarders try and stockpile them, they'll disappear relatively equally so that stores can restock easily, because apparently they're only sold as sets of 5. If only a single deck is selling out, stores are left with the other 4 that nobody wants so they don't restock. But if all the mana bases are fairly equal, it's not a problem.
I hope this is the year WotC finally gives in and builds a decent mana base for the decks. Building a 4 color mana base isn't trivial, and even their 3 color ones were pretty sketchy. Is it really that hard to put checklands, filterlands, or shocklands into the decks? I don't understand why they go with the most budget lands possible.
Because if they put expensive lands in them they get scooped up by people looking for value.
WotC wants people to introduce the format to players and get them to play with and update these decks, hard to achieve that if netdeckers swoop in and buy all the product they can thus making it scarcer and more expensive.
That certainly is a good point, but this year they are going to have to make sure that the mana base is better than usual so the decks are playable. Sure we don't need lands, but things like Prismatic Lantern can be used to help, or lands like Grand Coliseum or Mana Confluence. It would be nice though if at least one land was a filter though, just one shouldn't make the decks so nuts that hoarders swoop in, and even if they do this product is print to demand, so it won't be too bad.
The filters aren't cheap. I can never see those in product like these sets.
Maybe they'll make something that cares about nonbasic lands. A Fellwar Stone that checks what colors your nonbasics produce? A green-centric legend? I agree with the idea that the manabases need to be solid.
I could certainly see Burnished Hart and Fellwar Stone being included in all five decks. I expect to see Krosan Verge in the GW decks and Gem of Becoming in WUBR and UBRG. Obviously they have to include the Trilands and Banners (the Obelisks are generally outclassed by Darksteel Ingot, Chromatic Lantern, and the like.) Expedition Map would be another immensely useful reprint, able to fetch any land in your deck. Sword of the Animist would be especially useful for colorfixing.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I hope this is the year WotC finally gives in and builds a decent mana base for the decks. Building a 4 color mana base isn't trivial, and even their 3 color ones were pretty sketchy. Is it really that hard to put checklands, filterlands, or shocklands into the decks? I don't understand why they go with the most budget lands possible.
Because if they put expensive lands in them they get scooped up by people looking for value.
WotC wants people to introduce the format to players and get them to play with and update these decks, hard to achieve that if netdeckers swoop in and buy all the product they can thus making it scarcer and more expensive.
They could just reprint shocklands as uncommon in a legacy product like conspiracy then it would be easier for everyone to get them. Just saying.
They could just send them out to everyone, for free. That would be even easier.
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
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WUBR Artifacts
UBRG Ramp
BRGW Creatures
RGWU Voltron
GWUB Enchantments
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
WUBR Stax/Removal/Artifacts
UBRG Countermagic/Goodstuff/Polymorphs
BRGW Grave Manipulation/Stompy/Reanimator
RGWU Randomness/Exalted/Voltron
GWUB Ramp/Prison/Control
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
Second, there has been a fairly vocal subset of people wanting 4 color generals and your idea doesn't really give them that. Knowing how many people ask MaRo on his blog if they would just errata the Nephilim to be Legendary, I have to believe they know that people want true 4 color generals. They can do this by making them cost all 4 colors or cost 2 colors and have activated abilities for the other 2 colors (or both hopefully) and a number of other options. With this in mind, they will almost certainly make sure each 4 color combination has at least one stand alone card to be the general.
Commander. Elder Dragon Highlander.
Come on, man.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
If they follow what what did last year we will get previews during the first week of November.
"You can tell how dumb someone is by how they use Mary Sue"
You must be fun at parties. I've actually been happy with all of the commander sets thus far.
My Collection & Tradelist
My EDH Cube: 960 Cards, Fully Foiled and Pimped
CUBE TUTOR
Commander has been the only product series that has been good after all these years. I'm talking about the precon decks of course. Sure 13 wasn't great and 15 was only slightly above average, but honestly this has been the only line of product we've gotten that has at least stayed decent among all of the other products that have had lower quality since their inception.
If I had to rank them I would go.
11
14
15
13
Commander's Arsenal
13 is the lowest, minus Arsenal, because almost all of the decks were rather boring. I could still find 3 of the decks at my Wal-Mart well into mid 2015, because no one wanted them. Only two of them were decent and most of the newer cards were forgettable. 11 started it, so it might remain #1, but I think 14 was just as good as it in many regards. Sure 14 had one dud deck, but it did its job really well outside of that. 15 was average overall, had one hell of a dud deck, W/R Giants (what was the giant tribal all about, I mean really?). Nothing truly stood out about it, but it wasn't terrible either.
I agree with this 100%. After 2014 I realized that Wizards was only going to cater to noobs with these decks and would never include a decent amount of needed reprints. These products are chuck full of junk rares that have been printed many times before and every veteran commander player owns already. Sol Ring is great and all, but do we really need to own 20 copies of the same artwork? Heaven forbid they replace it with cards that are only expensive because of extreme scarcity like Mana crypt or Portal staples.
The other problem is that when they design new commander staples that are good, they only include them in one or two decks. (eg - Command Beacon, Blade of Selves, Magus of the Wheel, Myriad Landscape (3), Arcane Lighthouse (3), Tempt with discovery) All-in-all, there is way too much junk in these decks. I'd prefer that they replace commander decks with a sealed commander product printed to demand if it means they would actually include some much needed format staples. (3.99 MSRP, not another overpriced masters set)
14 was awesome, each of the decks had such a strong identity it made playing them as is a lot of fun. Plus they made mono-red the best and the most fun to play!
13 was the worst for me: one chase deck in terms of value and the rest were pretty straightforward. Some of the themes (Grixis spells, Bant ETB and Esper lifegain) weren't developed all that well.
However all the Commander releases have added some great cards to the format (and a good number of silly/lame/aggravating ones as well yes).
So 2014 didn't have reprints? You mean Wurmcoil Engine, Grave Titan, Thran Dynamo, Cyclonic Rift, Grand Abolisher, Caged Sun, Ezuri, Emeria, Solemn Simulacrum, Flickerwisp, Priest of Titania, Blasphemous Act, Reliquary Tower, and Chaos Warp. All of those are $3 to $16, medium TCGPlayer pricing. None of those were good reprints? Not to mention the Medallion cycle with brand new art.
So once C14 came out you knew reprints would get worse? Sure C15 didn't bring it like C14, but C15 was far from bad.
I'm all for a sealed Commander product, but the way they have been doing pure reprint sets the last few times have been awful and you know that they would try to make the boosters $10 because something like Snapcaster Mage is in it.
Yes, some of the cards you listed should have been uncommon to be in more decks, like Command Beacon, but I don't know how you can complain when a card shows up 3 times in one product. Compared to Masters, Duel Decks, FTVs, and Event Decks/Clash Packs the Commander series has been the only product to keep a steady level of quality. If there is one product that DOESN'T need to be changed it is Commander, and the only time they did change it it was kind of a disaster.
Commander is casual and that's the domain of Vorthos, too. This is the only product where we can anticipate something cool and creative. This is where we can expect cardless characters, since evidently Return to Innistrad didn't deliver Jenrik, or Ludevic, or Hal and Alena, or basically anything except a re-hash of old characters getting a second round of cards. Maro says it's because new mechanics they design for Commander products don't always fit a past character that needs a card. Why design them that way then? It seems like a poor excuse and a failure on delivering what player's want. We ask when we can get these characters, the answer is in supplemental products. We ask why supplemental products don't have these characters, the answer is "because mechanics."
Did mechanics save the bland C15 product? That was among the worst series ever, especially since it was right after the best one, C14. I really thought that after C14 covering so much new and exciting ground I figured it was a new era of engaging products. Planeswalker Commanders, past Legends getting cards, Oldwalker characters, new and exciting themed cards.
I mean, if a casual product for casual players can't satisfy Vorthos, and won't have good reprints for anyone else, and boils down to being "bulk rares within the deck's colors" what's the point?
They don't even reveal these until forever, and the anticipation builds up - only to fall flat. They really need to stop relying on 5 new cards like Command Beacon selling an entire deck of bulk rares and random characters that mean nothing to Vorthos and illicit no excitement from anyone.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
I guess "decent amount" is all relative. You mention a few decent reprints but these are few and far between. We get maybe one or two per deck with the rest being junk rares. There isn't enough value for veteran commander players to justify buying all the decks. We are better off buying singles since most of the decks are filled with junk that only a new commander player would care about. It isn't necessarily a bad thing that these decks cater to new commander players. They just need something that caters to veteran players as well.
I think the main difference between Commander 2011 and 2013 with the last two sets is that back then, most Commander players didn't own 20 copies of Command Tower or Sol Ring so there was significant value to be gained by buying all the decks. I was thrilled when Commander 2013 came out because Sol Ring was sitting at $6-7 and Command Tower was at $5.
Because if they put expensive lands in them they get scooped up by people looking for value.
WotC wants people to introduce the format to players and get them to play with and update these decks, hard to achieve that if netdeckers swoop in and buy all the product they can thus making it scarcer and more expensive.
That certainly is a good point, but this year they are going to have to make sure that the mana base is better than usual so the decks are playable. Sure we don't need lands, but things like Prismatic Lantern can be used to help, or lands like Grand Coliseum or Mana Confluence. It would be nice though if at least one land was a filter though, just one shouldn't make the decks so nuts that hoarders swoop in, and even if they do this product is print to demand, so it won't be too bad.
Maybe they'll make something that cares about nonbasic lands. A Fellwar Stone that checks what colors your nonbasics produce? A green-centric legend? I agree with the idea that the manabases need to be solid.
(U/B)(U/B)(U/B) JUMP IN THE LINE, ROCK YOUR BODY IN TIME
(R/W)(R/W)(R/W) RISING FROM THE NEON GLOOM, SHINING LIKE A CRAZY MOON
(U/R)(R/G)(G/U) STEALIN' WHEN I SHOULD HAVE BEEN BUYIN'
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
They could just send them out to everyone, for free. That would be even easier.