WOTC is gutting top players salaries for participating in their events. A platinum pro will be paid $250 instead of $3000 for participating in a pro tour or WMCQ, and HOFers receive $1500 for only one pro tour a year.
They justified this by saying :
These decisions were not made lightly, and were finalized only after much discussion about the goals of the Pro Tour Players Club. The appearance fees we awarded for Platinum pros were meant to assist in maintaining the professional Magic player’s lifestyle; upon scrupulous evaluation, we believe that the program is not succeeding at this goal, and have made the decision to decrease appearance fees.
How does that change help assisting pros in living a Magic player's lifestyle? I mean, they say that they don't think the program is not succeeding, so they just cut it into chump change? The explanation doesn't fit the change. I think this decision is really dumb, most of us enjoy watching pros during the pro tours and other events. Cutting their funds means some of them might not show up sometimes, or might have less preparation.. It might reduce the quality of play or decks.
How does that change help assisting pros in living a Magic player's lifestyle?
Yeah, I didn't understand that, either. I feel like they poorly communicated their reasoning, because it sounded like they said, "The previous amount wasn't enough, so we lowered it."
I don't get it either. Wotc should be able to keep up with the costs of paying these pros. If not, why cut from 3000$ to 250$? That is a drastic change! Why not just start off at 2000$ and see what happens?
Decisions like these don't happen over night. That's the biggest problem, not giving a notice in advance. How many would not have wasted their time if they knew this was coming down the pipeline?
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I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
Havrekjex it has been going in that direction since Hasbro acquired WotC, which explains where the money sink is. From what I've seen over the past few years, it seems like bosses have to hit certain marks each year and MtG doing well for a year only sets the bar higher for the next year. We keep seeing bizarre decisions that make no sense from the perspective of people involved in playing/judging the game because the people making the ultimate decisions have little to no connection to the game. Contrary to many Magic players I think WotC are, for the most part, the good guys. They were told to make planeswalkers work, then mythic rarities, then expeditions and while I don't like any of those additions, they didn't ruin the game because WotC had some measured amount of power in designing and executing those orders. But when the Hasbro bossman says, "I need you, Bob, to cut how much we pay pro players by 80%," you can't really dance around that and make it work. You just have to cut everybody equally and hope it doesn't ruin anyone's life too badly.
I think they meant that the fee was not enough anyway to support a pro lifestyle, so it was money they'd rather spend elsewhere: in the top of the ranking. They did vastly increase the pay-off for finishing in the top 8, and especially finishing 1st or 2nd. Now, winning a pro tour basically pays enough for someone to easily live off it for a year or more.
I'm not a pro, but I suppose Wizards figured that the real pros, those living off magic, make their earning via sponsorship, writing for big magic sites, etc. The appearance fee were a bonus, but not enough to justify being a pro.
The new pay off vs fee also means that you need to actually perform, not just show up.
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
It has been my contention for a while now that Magic is a huge cash cow for the otherwise mediocre-to-modest gaming division.
Moves like this feel like the kind of moves a company looking to use Product A to fund Product B.
But it may be even more simple than that: If the other games aren't pulling their weight, Magic has to work that much harder to give Wall Street whatever returns it demands for stock price growth.
I wish they would put more of that money into gp payouts. Gps are not what they were 5 to 10 years ago, and slogging through 3 or 4 thousand players for a couple hundred dollars for top 64 just feels crappy. That's a really good showing and it doesn't even pay for the trip in most cases.
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
Actually it's not. If they didn't set the MSRP at $10, the packs would become super inflated due to supply and demand.
The first Modern Masters had a MSRPV at below $10. That coupled with low supply quickly drove up the price to unattainable levels.
I think they meant that the fee was not enough anyway to support a pro lifestyle, so it was money they'd rather spend elsewhere: in the top of the ranking. They did vastly increase the pay-off for finishing in the top 8, and especially finishing 1st or 2nd. Now, winning a pro tour basically pays enough for someone to easily live off it for a year or more.
I'm not a pro, but I suppose Wizards figured that the real pros, those living off magic, make their earning via sponsorship, writing for big magic sites, etc. The appearance fee were a bonus, but not enough to justify being a pro.
The new pay off vs fee also means that you need to actually perform, not just show up.
This makes perfect sense and was the way I interpreted Wizards statement. It's not that the money isn't enough for people and they want to make this a way to make a living. It's that the money isn't what contributes to their living. It's sponsorships/writing/etc. If they reduce the bonus and increase the high end it makes it a better incentive for those who ARE trying to make a living to win.
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
Actually it's not. If they didn't set the MSRP at $10, the packs would become super inflated due to supply and demand.
The first Modern Masters had a MSRPV at below $10. That coupled with low supply quickly drove up the price to unattainable levels.
Well then lower the price and increase the supply, how hard is that? Even just putting it at like 6$ increases the amount of people willing to buy a pack here and there, and don't make it such a limited print run, I'm pretty sure they realize based off their sales their customer count is increasing, and a lot of us want to play with older cards, be it for EDH, or modern, or even legacy, which is the hardest right now to get into due to the VERY low supply left of a lot of staples. I mean, they're already hitting the pockets of the pros, whose to say vendors can't/won't take a hit?
Ugin is going to get really bad once all the fatties are colourless. I sold all mine. Sell sell sell!
He's going to be absolutely rotten. Hangarback walker has already nerfed him quite significantly. I reckon he'll be $3 junk within 2 months of rotation
I just don't understand where all the money goes. The game is as big as it's ever been, yet they keep doing all kinds of greedy things like this as if they're about to go bankrupt. We see expedition lotteries, outrageous rarity bumps, $10 boosters, horrible MTGO management (my deck has bern broken by a bug for ten weeks), and now they rip money from the hands of their most prominent ambassadors of the game. Is it really just greed, or is there some money sink somewhere that we don't know about? They're just seem so clumsy these days.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
Actually it's not. If they didn't set the MSRP at $10, the packs would become super inflated due to supply and demand.
The first Modern Masters had a MSRPV at below $10. That coupled with low supply quickly drove up the price to unattainable levels.
Well then lower the price and increase the supply, how hard is that? Even just putting it at like 6$ increases the amount of people willing to buy a pack here and there, and don't make it such a limited print run, I'm pretty sure they realize based off their sales their customer count is increasing, and a lot of us want to play with older cards, be it for EDH, or modern, or even legacy, which is the hardest right now to get into due to the VERY low supply left of a lot of staples. I mean, they're already hitting the pockets of the pros, whose to say vendors can't/won't take a hit?
That defeats the purpose of a limited print run.
We don't want Magic to become like Yugio or Force of Will.
I think they meant that the fee was not enough anyway to support a pro lifestyle, so it was money they'd rather spend elsewhere: in the top of the ranking. They did vastly increase the pay-off for finishing in the top 8, and especially finishing 1st or 2nd. Now, winning a pro tour basically pays enough for someone to easily live off it for a year or more.
I'm not a pro, but I suppose Wizards figured that the real pros, those living off magic, make their earning via sponsorship, writing for big magic sites, etc. The appearance fee were a bonus, but not enough to justify being a pro.
The new pay off vs fee also means that you need to actually perform, not just show up.
If this is what they meant, then their communication was even worse than I originally thought.
It can't be that hard to type "So we are shifting that money to winnings," right?
I feel like that was added later, because either I had the biggest blind spot in history when reading, or that wasn't there when I read it earlier this morning.
edit ah, I read the news elsewhere. They didn't report the full story, and I didn't click through. Lesson of the day is that 1st party news > 3rd party news.
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
Actually it's not. If they didn't set the MSRP at $10, the packs would become super inflated due to supply and demand.
The first Modern Masters had a MSRPV at below $10. That coupled with low supply quickly drove up the price to unattainable levels.
Well then lower the price and increase the supply, how hard is that? Even just putting it at like 6$ increases the amount of people willing to buy a pack here and there, and don't make it such a limited print run, I'm pretty sure they realize based off their sales their customer count is increasing, and a lot of us want to play with older cards, be it for EDH, or modern, or even legacy, which is the hardest right now to get into due to the VERY low supply left of a lot of staples. I mean, they're already hitting the pockets of the pros, whose to say vendors can't/won't take a hit?
That defeats the purpose of a limited print run.
We don't want Magic to become like Yugio or Force of Will.
There's a big difference between reprinting next to nothing of interest and making thousands of tinboxes that have, say, tarmogoyfs in them. The problem is the limited printrun combined with the price stranglehold shops put on their customers with that product. At this point, I've given up entirely on the whole "they'll have to reprint those cards someday, right?" train of thought, because there's no need to change the system. Why make modern affordable, when you can have so many more standard-players who desperately try to get their increasingly more expensive decks together with each new set?
I also concur on topic with what someone said earlier regarding the pro-players. I don't think wizards are the bad boys, it's just hasbro and their 'we have to make more profit than last year' corporate-cancer mentality. If you can't make more money by shoving stuff down people's throats, you've got to save cash somewhere else.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Travelling to these events is costly, we will see less recognizable faces for sure because now these pros can't even guarantee breaking even on the trip.
Rationalizations aside, this comes down to WOTC trying to cut costs, crossing their fingers and saying "hopefully we can get away with this". When they can't spotlight as many recognizable names, this may change.
Trust that many players get engaged in the coverage because of their favourite players.
It feels like a lot of "pro's" were getting to platinum status so they could just cash in on the huge "appearance" fees verse actually competing as a pro (meaning; you go to every GP/PT).
I feel like this line is the what is confusing a lot of people:
The appearance fees we awarded for Platinum pros were meant to assist in maintaining the professional Magic player’s lifestyle
I take this to mean, that fees given to platinum pro's are meant to help a pro continue to travel and participate in EVERY event, to be able to test and prepare for events, which should lead to a corresponding performance befitting a "pro." My guess is that too many people rushed to platinum, to obtain the $3000 fee and not continually acting as a pro.
I seriously doubt this is purely a cost cutting measure. I mean really there are what 40 or so platinum pros? This might save what a mil a year but at the same time lose a bit in terms promotion that these events bring and add a bunch more to the prize payout. Doubt there will be much of a net difference at all. I'm with Sperling and thinking this is more related to the judges lawsuit
It feels like a lot of "pro's" were getting to platinum status so they could just cash in on the huge "appearance" fees verse actually competing as a pro (meaning; you go to every GP/PT).
I feel like this line is the what is confusing a lot of people:
The appearance fees we awarded for Platinum pros were meant to assist in maintaining the professional Magic player’s lifestyle
I take this to mean, that fees given to platinum pro's are meant to help a pro continue to travel and participate in EVERY event, to be able to test and prepare for events, which should lead to a corresponding performance befitting a "pro." My guess is that too many people rushed to platinum, to obtain the $3000 fee and not continually acting as a pro.
Living as a pro means that you are a professional MTG player. Not a full-time teacher who happens to play MTG during weekends, or a part-time whatever who plays MTG. As an analogy, in sports, pro athletes receive a salary to support the pro athlete lifestyle, which means they can concentrate on their craft instead of working another job. Obviously, there is a ton more money in pro sports than in MTG, but the concept is the same.
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WOTC is gutting top players salaries for participating in their events. A platinum pro will be paid $250 instead of $3000 for participating in a pro tour or WMCQ, and HOFers receive $1500 for only one pro tour a year.
They justified this by saying :
How does that change help assisting pros in living a Magic player's lifestyle? I mean, they say that they don't think the program is not succeeding, so they just cut it into chump change? The explanation doesn't fit the change. I think this decision is really dumb, most of us enjoy watching pros during the pro tours and other events. Cutting their funds means some of them might not show up sometimes, or might have less preparation.. It might reduce the quality of play or decks.
Yeah, I didn't understand that, either. I feel like they poorly communicated their reasoning, because it sounded like they said, "The previous amount wasn't enough, so we lowered it."
Which is just...
David Ochoa: "Mono-bacon!..."
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
Honestly I don't think we can knock them for the rarity bump or expedition lotteries. They have always done that in the past.
I'm not sure what you mean by 10$ boosters. Boosters are still #4.00 and have been for quite some time.
I'll give you horrible MTGO management. They need to redesign it from the ground up.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
I'm not a pro, but I suppose Wizards figured that the real pros, those living off magic, make their earning via sponsorship, writing for big magic sites, etc. The appearance fee were a bonus, but not enough to justify being a pro.
The new pay off vs fee also means that you need to actually perform, not just show up.
It has been my contention for a while now that Magic is a huge cash cow for the otherwise mediocre-to-modest gaming division.
Moves like this feel like the kind of moves a company looking to use Product A to fund Product B.
But it may be even more simple than that: If the other games aren't pulling their weight, Magic has to work that much harder to give Wall Street whatever returns it demands for stock price growth.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=11439737#post11439737
Reality is only what man allows it to be. Few shape it so that many may accept it.
I believe the poster you responded to meant the $10 boosters being Modern Masters and soon Eternal Masters. Those prices are incredibly steep, even for sought after reprints.
Actually it's not. If they didn't set the MSRP at $10, the packs would become super inflated due to supply and demand.
The first Modern Masters had a MSRPV at below $10. That coupled with low supply quickly drove up the price to unattainable levels.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
Well then lower the price and increase the supply, how hard is that? Even just putting it at like 6$ increases the amount of people willing to buy a pack here and there, and don't make it such a limited print run, I'm pretty sure they realize based off their sales their customer count is increasing, and a lot of us want to play with older cards, be it for EDH, or modern, or even legacy, which is the hardest right now to get into due to the VERY low supply left of a lot of staples. I mean, they're already hitting the pockets of the pros, whose to say vendors can't/won't take a hit?
That defeats the purpose of a limited print run.
We don't want Magic to become like Yugio or Force of Will.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
If this is what they meant, then their communication was even worse than I originally thought.
It can't be that hard to type "So we are shifting that money to winnings," right?
"Instead, we will be increasing the amount of prize money awarded at our biggest tournament of the year: The World Championship."
BTW, I was wrong, they didn't increase PT payout, just the World Championship.
edit ah, I read the news elsewhere. They didn't report the full story, and I didn't click through. Lesson of the day is that 1st party news > 3rd party news.
There's a big difference between reprinting next to nothing of interest and making thousands of tinboxes that have, say, tarmogoyfs in them. The problem is the limited printrun combined with the price stranglehold shops put on their customers with that product. At this point, I've given up entirely on the whole "they'll have to reprint those cards someday, right?" train of thought, because there's no need to change the system. Why make modern affordable, when you can have so many more standard-players who desperately try to get their increasingly more expensive decks together with each new set?
I also concur on topic with what someone said earlier regarding the pro-players. I don't think wizards are the bad boys, it's just hasbro and their 'we have to make more profit than last year' corporate-cancer mentality. If you can't make more money by shoving stuff down people's throats, you've got to save cash somewhere else.
Rationalizations aside, this comes down to WOTC trying to cut costs, crossing their fingers and saying "hopefully we can get away with this". When they can't spotlight as many recognizable names, this may change.
Trust that many players get engaged in the coverage because of their favourite players.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
I feel like this line is the what is confusing a lot of people:
I take this to mean, that fees given to platinum pro's are meant to help a pro continue to travel and participate in EVERY event, to be able to test and prepare for events, which should lead to a corresponding performance befitting a "pro." My guess is that too many people rushed to platinum, to obtain the $3000 fee and not continually acting as a pro.
WBG Karador GBW
R Daretti R
RG Omnath GR
WRG Modern Burn GRW
WB Modern Tokens BW
DCI Rules Advisor as of 5/18/2015
Living as a pro means that you are a professional MTG player. Not a full-time teacher who happens to play MTG during weekends, or a part-time whatever who plays MTG. As an analogy, in sports, pro athletes receive a salary to support the pro athlete lifestyle, which means they can concentrate on their craft instead of working another job. Obviously, there is a ton more money in pro sports than in MTG, but the concept is the same.