Yeah, I don't get this "Thoughtseize requires skill" thing. It only requires skill to go against. It requires no skill to actually use. You don't need to play a better deck to beat it. You have to play a specific kind of deck, and then hope your opening 7 is good, your 6 is great, or you lose on the spot.
Rather than waste time explaining all the ways you're either being extremely reductive or flat-out wrong, I'll just link to Todd Anderson's article. Suffice to say, Thoughtseize not so overpowered that it wins games single-handedly. And like I stated to Tenzo, the card creates decision-points; if you can't understand the skill involved, that's reflection on you (not the card itself).
The point is not the card being overpowered, it's the card being not fun to play with or against, and not improving the overall game experience, while also randomly producing non games and warping the meta-game around itself, the article itself says it, decks adapted to it by just jamming more and more treats.
We are straying from the actual point, having no modern pro tour allows more freedom with the management of the format, the metagame evolves slowly and doesn't need shake ups to cater to an audience that wants to see fun interactive games (interactive being the key here), or to wizards wanting to showcase new cards.
The problem with trying to get new cards into modern is that you have to constantly make new powerful cards, that leads to power creep, and no, reprints are not the solution, for one because reprints are not as exciting as new cards, and don't feature the new mechanics. There's a lot of depth to this topic, but the bottom line is that having no modern pro tour is actually a good change, as long as the format is being supported on other channels (GP's, FNM, PPTQ's, RPTQ's, etc).
Are people seriously complaining about Thoughtseize?! With out cards like Tseize, IOK, Remand, and any of the other interactive cards in Modern we would see Storm/Infect/Affinity/Bogles/name goldfish deck rule the format. Modern has needed better answers for it's powerful threats for years, and people seriously want one of the better answers away?
This thread is worse than the ban list thread. If you want to play goldfish magic and only goldfish magic, stay in your room and play with yourself. Wait, that doesn't sound quite right....
Now back to the lack of the Modern Pro Tour; I think it's a step in the right direction. The pro tour was a source of shake up bans, used to get none modern players excited for the pro tour. People who actually played Modern feared the PT bannings, loosing pillars of the format in the name of ratings. This should now stop without the PT. Now I hope they introduce more modern GPs to make up for the lose of the PT, even just one more a year on each continent would be enough.
Are people seriously complaining about Thoughtseize?! With out cards like Tseize, IOK, Remand, and any of the other interactive cards in Modern we would see Storm/Infect/Affinity/Bogles/name goldfish deck rule the format. Modern has needed better answers for it's powerful threats for years, and people seriously want one of the better answers away?
This thread is worse than the ban list thread. If you want to play goldfish magic and only goldfish magic, stay in your room and play with yourself. Wait, that doesn't sound quite right....
Now back to the lack of the Modern Pro Tour; I think it's a step in the right direction. The pro tour was a source of shake up bans, used to get none modern players excited for the pro tour. People who actually played Modern feared the PT bannings, loosing pillars of the format in the name of ratings. This should now stop without the PT. Now I hope they introduce more modern GPs to make up for the lose of the PT, even just one more a year on each continent would be enough.
I actually said a few posts back that those types of cards have it's place in older formats, my argument was about reprints in standard sets, and how some cards warp the standard metagame without really contributing to make gamplay (And I mean standard specifically) better, thus WoTC needs to be careful with how they handle reprints, as the last time a card of this nature (thoughtseize) was reprinted, it caused all sorts of problems. And I actually agree with you about modern being retired from the PT, precisely for the reasons you stated, among some others.
"Good cards are bad because I can't win with Craw Wurms when they are legal "
The game is going to ***** because people like this are buying boosters and whining very hard.
Standard gets warped by tissue paper because the card pool is so ***** and you want it to be even weaker?
I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
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I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
Would it be possible to ask you to explain your definition of "skill" ?
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
You are playing Jund, on the play, against Abzan Coco.
Your hand:
I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
Yes and?
The point of Thoughtseize and Force of Will is that every card ever doesn't have to support an underpowered 20 turn midrange grindfest of a game. Concise, extremely threatening strategies based on targeted repetition or game-breaking interations have every right to exist, be enjoyed and be competitive, therefore there need to be cards that can break their back when used correctly.
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
You are playing Jund, on the play, against Abzan Coco.
Your hand:
I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
Yes and?
The point of Thoughtseize and Force of Will is that every card ever doesn't have to support an underpowered 20 turn midrange grindfest of a game. Concise, extremely threatening strategies based on targeted repetition or game-breaking interations have every right to exist, be enjoyed and be competitive, therefore there need to be cards that can break their back when used correctly.
Repeats the first sentence that you quoted, now in bold.
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Please remain on-topic. This thread is about the decision to cut Modern from the Pro Tour. The topic of how skill-intensive Thoughtseize is is fast becoming spam
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I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
Yes and?
The point of Thoughtseize and Force of Will is that every card ever doesn't have to support an underpowered 20 turn midrange grindfest of a game. Concise, extremely threatening strategies based on targeted repetition or game-breaking interations have every right to exist, be enjoyed and be competitive, therefore there need to be cards that can break their back when used correctly.
Repeats the first sentence that you quoted, now in bold.
Again, so what?
Skill testing is not Thoughtseize's purpose. Allowing the existance of powerful interactions because there are powerful answers is. If they want standard cards to show up in Modern so much they have to stop designing filler and skill testers that are bad even in draft, and start designing more powerful answers. Modern has almost all the questions and less than a tenth of the answers of Legacy/Commander, that's why Thoughtseize is often the right answer no matter the question.
They need to design something that's better than Remand but not as good as Counterspell, something that's better than Path but not as good as Swords, something better than Ghost Quarter but not as good as Wasteland. Instead they keep reprinting Cancel with useless flavor text that's supposed to be an ability.
And Lightning Bolt is the definition of a format warping card. While it was in standard, the only creatures seeing play were finishers. Why? Because nothing else could survive Lightning Bolt-
Just gonna stop your reminiscing for a second.
So. Uh. You may not have been playing when Lightning Bolt Warped the format. Meaning that only 'Finishers' saw play but uh. There's this one deck that won the 2009 World MTG Championship.
And Lightning Bolt is the definition of a format warping card. While it was in standard, the only creatures seeing play were finishers. Why? Because nothing else could survive Lightning Bolt-
Just gonna stop your reminiscing for a second.
So. Uh. You may not have been playing when Lightning Bolt Warped the format. Meaning that only 'Finishers' saw play but uh. There's this one deck that won the 2009 World MTG Championship.
Bloodbraid Elf
Master of the Wild Hunt
Sprouting Thrinax (kindasorta)
Putrid Leech (Kinda sorta, if you do it correctly)
Garruk, Technically dies to bolt in certain situations..
BBE dies to bolt, sure... except you still get the cascade so it's card disadvantage to bolt it.
Same with Thrinax.
Leech only dies to bolt if you let it.
Garruk too.
Really the only one that bolt is actually decent against is Master, and even then if it lives until the next upkeep you get value anyway.
And Lightning Bolt is the definition of a format warping card. While it was in standard, the only creatures seeing play were finishers. Why? Because nothing else could survive Lightning Bolt-
Just gonna stop your reminiscing for a second.
So. Uh. You may not have been playing when Lightning Bolt Warped the format. Meaning that only 'Finishers' saw play but uh. There's this one deck that won the 2009 World MTG Championship.
Bloodbraid Elf
Master of the Wild Hunt
Sprouting Thrinax (kindasorta)
Putrid Leech (Kinda sorta, if you do it correctly)
Garruk, Technically dies to bolt in certain situations..
I mean, I remember playing back when Bolt was legal. And Bolt being legal was NOT the topic of discussion.
It was Bloodbraid Elf.
...Maybe wanna double check on them Vietnam Style flashbacks with Bolt.
You're kidding, right? You're saying Lightning Bolt didn't warp the format, and then you give me a deck list with 4 Lightning Bolts in it as "proof". And then you picked all the cards in the deck that are basically unaffected by Lightning Bolt, and held it up as proof that Lightning Bolt-able cards were still good. You're either using sarcasm to reinforce my point, or just really, really oblivious.
And besides, I didn't say anything about Bolt being legal either. Its fine, but it certainly warped standard, and is extremely powerful in Modern.
And the topic was the Modern Pro tour, and lack there of. Not Bloodbraid Elf. Jsing, fam.
So... before a mod closes the thread, I want to recap how we got here, a few posters claimed that modern was going to meet the same fate that extended because it was removed from the PT. Some of us, argued that the change was good for the format and that modern didn't belong in the PT because it didn't meet the goals of the PT, one of them being serving as an advertising tool for the new sets, as most of the cards played in modern weren't currently being sold by WoTC, to which they argued back that then they should reprint modern playable cards in standard, to which I replied... well that's not that easy, modern playable cards have some issues that have to be sorted out, the 2 main ones are the economic (nobody wants another reserve list, that would actually kill modern), and the other one, most modern playable cards are so powerful that they warp the metagame around them, and used thoughtseize and lightning bolt as examples, that was 2 pages ago...
Modern won't die because it's not a protour format anymore, it will just evolve at it's own peace without sudden "developments" by pro player teams, or sudden shakeups by WoTC to make the PT more interesting, that's the bottom line. It will still be supported on the GP circuit, SCG opens, FNM, PPTQ's and RPTQ's, and there will be more products aimed at modern (as well as other formats).
As an aside, over the last couple of days, there's been some talks about reprints in Maro's blog, he touched on thoughtseize's reprint as well as reprints in general. No one here knows all the factors that need to be balanced for the design of a set, they do, and they are actually looking for a way to fix the card availability issue, it's just a complex issue and takes time to find and execute a solution, and the consequences of messing up on that can be catastrophic.
Food for thought, any talk about "fixing modern" that starts with "fixing standard" should probably be discarded, the game has grown steadily over the last few years, to a point where every set outsells the previous one, that talks about how good they are designing at leas for sealed and draft, but guess what? They also measure tournament attendance, and it has more than likely grown as much, so if that's the case, I don't think standard needs to be fixed, and more than likely they don't think so either.
I think I can be convinced that modern not being at the PT is whats best for the PT and modern.
But I want there to be an international Modern tournament with some incentive for the top names to show up like the pro tour.
The world championships has 5 rounds of modern okay.. that's fine.. but its a very... match up dependent format you really don't get an idea of the format from 5 rounds. Is it 10 for the world magic cup with the modified version of the format? something like that.
GPs are still too local and rarely have the incentive to innovate that a PT has.
I'm not saying Thoughtseize should be banned/ is bad for the format. I understand its place in the meta just fine. But it certainly isn't skill intensive in any way. And it does lead to many non-games. And it is a format warping answer. Those are the claims I make, and I will stick by them.
Would it be possible to ask you to explain your definition of "skill" ?
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
And you would say that choosing the most enabling card is not a choice that requires skill?
I mean, putting pants on requires some skill, but I wouldn't call it skill intensive. Why is this forum seem to be afflicted by a constant need to split things between polarized versions? Is Borderline Personality that prevalent in Magic players?
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MTGSalvation; Where the whining is a time honored tradition, and enjoying the game is trolling.
Guys, enough with the thoughtseize debate, here and here you can find some of the thoughts of MaRo on the thoughtseize "experiment", interestingly enough, here's what he said about mutavault. It's not a problem of thoughtseize (or any other card) being too good for modern, it's about being unhealthy for standard, and again, standard is at an all time high, so it doesn't need to be adapted to fit modern reprints.
Would it be possible to ask you to explain your definition of "skill" ?
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
And you would say that choosing the most enabling card is not a choice that requires skill?
I mean, putting pants on requires some skill, but I wouldn't call it skill intensive. Why is this forum seem to be afflicted by a constant need to split things between polarized versions? Is Borderline Personality that prevalent in Magic players?
And do you think me trying to understand you, since you don't volunteer any information yourself, is "being afflicted by a constant need to split things between polarized versions"?
I asked you flat out what your definition of skill was, and you didn't answer. What am I supposed to do? Yes?
Bolded for your intensive reading skills. I'll italicize the word "intensive" if that helps. I'm not sure what else I can do for you. I mean, you quoted my answer already (the one you claim I didn't give you. You've ignored the word "intensive" multiple times. I would offer you some dialectical behavior therapy, but that works better in person, and I can't be bothered to feign empathy after 3PM.
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You're kidding, right? You're saying Lightning Bolt didn't warp the format, and then you give me a deck list with 4 Lightning Bolts in it as "proof". And then you picked all the cards in the deck that are basically unaffected by Lightning Bolt, and held it up as proof that Lightning Bolt-able cards were still good. You're either using sarcasm to reinforce my point, or just really, really oblivious.
And besides, I didn't say anything about Bolt being legal either. Its fine, but it certainly warped standard, and is extremely powerful in Modern.
And the topic was the Modern Pro tour, and lack there of. Not Bloodbraid Elf. Jsing, fam.
So the cool thing is that Magic actually provides a good archive of what was played at what era, specifically at high end events.
Now, not EVERY deck is running Bolt, however the BEST deck in the format wasn't good BECAUSE of Lightning Bolt, it was because of Bloodbraid Elf.
It seems you must not have played Magic when Bolt was Legal in Standard. Or it's highly doubtful, or you just have a really bad memory. Either way.
Bolt wouldn't WARP Standard, especially because of how creatures are now. Bolt would be powerful, but not too strong for standard, otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with the 1R - Deal 3 Damage to Target Creature or Player thing every year.
Now as for Modern Pro Tour;
I think the difference between Extended and Modern was that Extended wasn't a very healthy format, it was a rotating format still and it wasn't like a ton of people were really into it. If anything I would love to see a like. Standard World Championship, Modern, Legacy. But that still requires further growth of the game.
You're kidding, right? You're saying Lightning Bolt didn't warp the format, and then you give me a deck list with 4 Lightning Bolts in it as "proof". And then you picked all the cards in the deck that are basically unaffected by Lightning Bolt, and held it up as proof that Lightning Bolt-able cards were still good. You're either using sarcasm to reinforce my point, or just really, really oblivious.
And besides, I didn't say anything about Bolt being legal either. Its fine, but it certainly warped standard, and is extremely powerful in Modern.
And the topic was the Modern Pro tour, and lack there of. Not Bloodbraid Elf. Jsing, fam.
So the cool thing is that Magic actually provides a good archive of what was played at what era, specifically at high end events.
Now, not EVERY deck is running Bolt, however the BEST deck in the format wasn't good BECAUSE of Lightning Bolt, it was because of Bloodbraid Elf.
It seems you must not have played Magic when Bolt was Legal in Standard. Or it's highly doubtful, or you just have a really bad memory. Either way.
Bolt wouldn't WARP Standard, especially because of how creatures are now. Bolt would be powerful, but not too strong for standard, otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with the 1R - Deal 3 Damage to Target Creature or Player thing every year.
Now as for Modern Pro Tour;
I think the difference between Extended and Modern was that Extended wasn't a very healthy format, it was a rotating format still and it wasn't like a ton of people were really into it. If anything I would love to see a like. Standard World Championship, Modern, Legacy. But that still requires further growth of the game.
I mean, there is that... You know, while we're talking about issues with Modern and such.
As far as BBE, yes, it was the most "powerful" card in Standard when Jund was dominant, but it didn't warp the meta as much as you may think, seeing as the card basically doesn't get interacted with, and doesn't interact with your opponent. It isn't like they could prepare for an enemy BBE; just the spell (and card advantage) it generated. But power level and ability to warp a format are different things. However, look through all of the decks that were good then. Count up the creatures that went 1 for 1 with Lightning Bolt.
I mean, there is that... You know, while we're talking about issues with Modern and such.
As far as BBE, yes, it was the most "powerful" card in Standard when Jund was dominant, but it didn't warp the meta as much as you may think, seeing as the card basically doesn't get interacted with, and doesn't interact with your opponent. It isn't like they could prepare for an enemy BBE; just the spell (and card advantage) it generated. But power level and ability to warp a format are different things. However, look through all of the decks that were good then. Count up the creatures that went 1 for 1 with Lightning Bolt.
...It's hard to really tell what your argument is.
From what I can tell you just REALLY hate Lightning Bolt.
Your arguments seem kind of.. foolish to begin with. I mean, you're saying that Bloodbraid Elf didn't warp the meta, but Lightning Bolt was far more destructive? You use powerful in quotations like it's an abstract idea.
Of the two I'd like to see in Standard, Bloodbraid or Lightning Bolt, Bolt is far more ideal. I mean, lets look at Modern, Bloodbraid Elf is banned, Lightning Bolt is legal.
And Creatures that went 1/1 with Lightning Bolt? Reliquary, BoP, Wild Nacatyl, Kor Skyfisher, White Knight, Steppe Lynx, Plated Geopede.
so to confirm, is modern "over" or on its way out?
Probably.
Stores don't really have a reason to support the format outside it's "PPTQ Season" anymore, WotC clearly hates reprinting Modern staple cards, and everywhere outside the US your driving distance GPs will most likely NOT be Modern.
The mayority will eventually ask themselves "Why play this unsupported format?" and we're on Legacy's footsteps where everyone that cares about planeswalker points, PTQs and "grinding" would rather go play T2/Limited at another state than play at their local eternal tournament despite having a deck because those events are now "casual".
I really don't have high hopes for the format's future.
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We are straying from the actual point, having no modern pro tour allows more freedom with the management of the format, the metagame evolves slowly and doesn't need shake ups to cater to an audience that wants to see fun interactive games (interactive being the key here), or to wizards wanting to showcase new cards.
The problem with trying to get new cards into modern is that you have to constantly make new powerful cards, that leads to power creep, and no, reprints are not the solution, for one because reprints are not as exciting as new cards, and don't feature the new mechanics. There's a lot of depth to this topic, but the bottom line is that having no modern pro tour is actually a good change, as long as the format is being supported on other channels (GP's, FNM, PPTQ's, RPTQ's, etc).
This thread is worse than the ban list thread. If you want to play goldfish magic and only goldfish magic, stay in your room and play with yourself. Wait, that doesn't sound quite right....
Now back to the lack of the Modern Pro Tour; I think it's a step in the right direction. The pro tour was a source of shake up bans, used to get none modern players excited for the pro tour. People who actually played Modern feared the PT bannings, loosing pillars of the format in the name of ratings. This should now stop without the PT. Now I hope they introduce more modern GPs to make up for the lose of the PT, even just one more a year on each continent would be enough.
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The game is going to ***** because people like this are buying boosters and whining very hard.
Standard gets warped by tissue paper because the card pool is so ***** and you want it to be even weaker?
In this context? The ability to screw it up. You always Thoughtseize their most enabling card. Its not skill at that point. It involves no critical decision making.
Apparently to complain about the point of the topic, and other off topic things.
You are playing Jund, on the play, against Abzan Coco.
Your hand:
You cast Thoughtseize and see:
What's your pick?
Yes and?
The point of Thoughtseize and Force of Will is that every card ever doesn't have to support an underpowered 20 turn midrange grindfest of a game. Concise, extremely threatening strategies based on targeted repetition or game-breaking interations have every right to exist, be enjoyed and be competitive, therefore there need to be cards that can break their back when used correctly.
What's my other 53 look like? My gut says to take the finks, but I would need to know the other 53.
Repeats the first sentence that you quoted, now in bold.
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Again, so what?
Skill testing is not Thoughtseize's purpose. Allowing the existance of powerful interactions because there are powerful answers is. If they want standard cards to show up in Modern so much they have to stop designing filler and skill testers that are bad even in draft, and start designing more powerful answers. Modern has almost all the questions and less than a tenth of the answers of Legacy/Commander, that's why Thoughtseize is often the right answer no matter the question.
They need to design something that's better than Remand but not as good as Counterspell, something that's better than Path but not as good as Swords, something better than Ghost Quarter but not as good as Wasteland. Instead they keep reprinting Cancel with useless flavor text that's supposed to be an ability.
Just gonna stop your reminiscing for a second.
So. Uh. You may not have been playing when Lightning Bolt Warped the format. Meaning that only 'Finishers' saw play but uh. There's this one deck that won the 2009 World MTG Championship.
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=478055
..Things that die to bolt.
Bloodbraid Elf
Master of the Wild Hunt
Sprouting Thrinax (kindasorta)
Putrid Leech (Kinda sorta, if you do it correctly)
Garruk, Technically dies to bolt in certain situations..
I mean, I remember playing back when Bolt was legal. And Bolt being legal was NOT the topic of discussion.
It was Bloodbraid Elf.
...Maybe wanna double check on them Vietnam Style flashbacks with Bolt.
BBE dies to bolt, sure... except you still get the cascade so it's card disadvantage to bolt it.
Same with Thrinax.
Leech only dies to bolt if you let it.
Garruk too.
Really the only one that bolt is actually decent against is Master, and even then if it lives until the next upkeep you get value anyway.
You're kidding, right? You're saying Lightning Bolt didn't warp the format, and then you give me a deck list with 4 Lightning Bolts in it as "proof". And then you picked all the cards in the deck that are basically unaffected by Lightning Bolt, and held it up as proof that Lightning Bolt-able cards were still good. You're either using sarcasm to reinforce my point, or just really, really oblivious.
And besides, I didn't say anything about Bolt being legal either. Its fine, but it certainly warped standard, and is extremely powerful in Modern.
And the topic was the Modern Pro tour, and lack there of. Not Bloodbraid Elf. Jsing, fam.
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Modern won't die because it's not a protour format anymore, it will just evolve at it's own peace without sudden "developments" by pro player teams, or sudden shakeups by WoTC to make the PT more interesting, that's the bottom line. It will still be supported on the GP circuit, SCG opens, FNM, PPTQ's and RPTQ's, and there will be more products aimed at modern (as well as other formats).
As an aside, over the last couple of days, there's been some talks about reprints in Maro's blog, he touched on thoughtseize's reprint as well as reprints in general. No one here knows all the factors that need to be balanced for the design of a set, they do, and they are actually looking for a way to fix the card availability issue, it's just a complex issue and takes time to find and execute a solution, and the consequences of messing up on that can be catastrophic.
Food for thought, any talk about "fixing modern" that starts with "fixing standard" should probably be discarded, the game has grown steadily over the last few years, to a point where every set outsells the previous one, that talks about how good they are designing at leas for sealed and draft, but guess what? They also measure tournament attendance, and it has more than likely grown as much, so if that's the case, I don't think standard needs to be fixed, and more than likely they don't think so either.
But I want there to be an international Modern tournament with some incentive for the top names to show up like the pro tour.
The world championships has 5 rounds of modern okay.. that's fine.. but its a very... match up dependent format you really don't get an idea of the format from 5 rounds. Is it 10 for the world magic cup with the modified version of the format? something like that.
GPs are still too local and rarely have the incentive to innovate that a PT has.
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I mean, putting pants on requires some skill, but I wouldn't call it skill intensive. Why is this forum seem to be afflicted by a constant need to split things between polarized versions? Is Borderline Personality that prevalent in Magic players?
Bolded for your intensive reading skills. I'll italicize the word "intensive" if that helps. I'm not sure what else I can do for you. I mean, you quoted my answer already (the one you claim I didn't give you. You've ignored the word "intensive" multiple times. I would offer you some dialectical behavior therapy, but that works better in person, and I can't be bothered to feign empathy after 3PM.
So the cool thing is that Magic actually provides a good archive of what was played at what era, specifically at high end events.
I nabbed this little gem.
http://magic.wizards.com/en/events/coverage/ptsd10
Now, not EVERY deck is running Bolt, however the BEST deck in the format wasn't good BECAUSE of Lightning Bolt, it was because of Bloodbraid Elf.
It seems you must not have played Magic when Bolt was Legal in Standard. Or it's highly doubtful, or you just have a really bad memory. Either way.
Bolt wouldn't WARP Standard, especially because of how creatures are now. Bolt would be powerful, but not too strong for standard, otherwise we wouldn't have to deal with the 1R - Deal 3 Damage to Target Creature or Player thing every year.
Now as for Modern Pro Tour;
I think the difference between Extended and Modern was that Extended wasn't a very healthy format, it was a rotating format still and it wasn't like a ton of people were really into it. If anything I would love to see a like. Standard World Championship, Modern, Legacy. But that still requires further growth of the game.
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/format-staples/modern
I mean, there is that... You know, while we're talking about issues with Modern and such.
As far as BBE, yes, it was the most "powerful" card in Standard when Jund was dominant, but it didn't warp the meta as much as you may think, seeing as the card basically doesn't get interacted with, and doesn't interact with your opponent. It isn't like they could prepare for an enemy BBE; just the spell (and card advantage) it generated. But power level and ability to warp a format are different things. However, look through all of the decks that were good then. Count up the creatures that went 1 for 1 with Lightning Bolt.
...It's hard to really tell what your argument is.
From what I can tell you just REALLY hate Lightning Bolt.
Your arguments seem kind of.. foolish to begin with. I mean, you're saying that Bloodbraid Elf didn't warp the meta, but Lightning Bolt was far more destructive? You use powerful in quotations like it's an abstract idea.
Of the two I'd like to see in Standard, Bloodbraid or Lightning Bolt, Bolt is far more ideal. I mean, lets look at Modern, Bloodbraid Elf is banned, Lightning Bolt is legal.
And Creatures that went 1/1 with Lightning Bolt? Reliquary, BoP, Wild Nacatyl, Kor Skyfisher, White Knight, Steppe Lynx, Plated Geopede.
Probably.
Stores don't really have a reason to support the format outside it's "PPTQ Season" anymore, WotC clearly hates reprinting Modern staple cards, and everywhere outside the US your driving distance GPs will most likely NOT be Modern.
The mayority will eventually ask themselves "Why play this unsupported format?" and we're on Legacy's footsteps where everyone that cares about planeswalker points, PTQs and "grinding" would rather go play T2/Limited at another state than play at their local eternal tournament despite having a deck because those events are now "casual".
I really don't have high hopes for the format's future.