They didnt know they were not going to receive benefits when they volunteered??
There's a difference between "not recieving benefits" and "not getting a break to get a quick bite in." While we don't know the exact details, it's entirely plausible that at some events, judges get overworked due to either being understaffed, the tournament taking much longer than expected, problematic players, etc etc. It's not too much to ask to be given a few breaks to catch your breath, is there?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Yeah, how horrible those judges are, wanting things like the ability to go eat during a 12-hour entirely unpaid shift. They deserve to be a disposable resource that a multi-million dollar corporation can use and discard.
It should only take 1 event for you to gain the expectation that that will not happen - thus you simply cut your losses.
Grow up.
If every judge took this route, there would be no judges, no events, and basically no sanctioned game. Is that what you want?
I don't know, I just sort of hold the opinion that judges are people too, and more importantly deserve to be compensated for working as employees.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
They didnt know they were not going to receive benefits when they volunteered??
There's a difference between "not recieving benefits" and "not getting a break to get a quick bite in." While we don't know the exact details, it's entirely plausible that at some events, judges get overworked due to either being understaffed, the tournament taking much longer than expected, problematic players, etc etc. It's not too much to ask to be given a few breaks to catch your breath, is there?
HOw does sueing for wages, back pay, and travel expense equate to getting a breather and a bite to eat?
I'd agree that it does sound like some of the time their help definitely gets taken advantage of and should definitely should be given things like breaks and such. Wouldn't mind seeing Wizards lay out some ground rules for the TO's on how they treat Judges... doesn't seem that hard since they already oversee aspects of judging and sanctioned tournaments. But making the jump to Wizards employee seems a bit of a stretch.
They volunteered. They knew the circumstances going in. Its not like you cant ask other judges what its like or do research. But now somehow its all "unfair".
They volunteered. They knew the circumstances going in. Its not like you cant ask other judges what its like or do research. But now somehow its all "unfair".
Again, it is literally illegal to volunteer for Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The only exception to this rule is that one is allowed to volunteer for public sector companies provided that the volunteer work performed has no relation to the work of the regular job within the company.
Also, the "class" being represented in this suit is Level 2 and above, so Wizards' attempt to distance themselves from the judges rings false especially considering the extremely draconian response to leakgate (Leakghazi?)
Honestly, I haven't played in a big tournament in a long while, mainly because, even as a player, getting a meal break or a rest isn't easily doable (and tournaments last about 12 hours a day, I think?). Haven't imagined it from the judge's standpoint.. always thought they had like a rotation or something like that.. must be quite awful.
From a legal standpoint, I have no clue what could happen, if anything could happen.
Nothing forces a TO to make a tournament that is sanctioned, if you however choose to do so, you need a judge that is qualified to do so.
I mean, everyone that wants to be a judge can become one, do a test, it doesnt cost money , you just need to have the knowledge.
It would be downright ridiculous to have judges at events that do not have any form of test and just lay out the rules as they wish ; that cant work and if anybody wants that, i doubt your mind works as intended (i mean seriously).
In any bigger event you can be damn glad theres people that know what they are doing.
If you work "overtime" as a judge, you can just skip, leave, nothing really prevents you from doing so.
If you have any form of "contract" with your TO; you can blame THEM and THEM alone, as thats your first person to ask for anything , and i still have to see a TO that would go full ******** mode to a judge and not give them some form of privilege or care (i mean thats just basic human social part that shouldnt be even up for debate).
WotC cares for their big professional events and that works for an eternity.
A lvl 1 local game store judge will out of necessity get in contact with that game store owner and they will allways get something for doing that job, and thats just as a hobby, for fun, its not a "job" you do to get payment, you either enjoy judging or you are plain wrong at that position.
----
If a store chooses they just do tournament without judges at all, its their decision.
If you want to run a Grand Prix you better have judges, and making that mandatory is just plain human sence, just think a second a Grand Prix is run by people that have no clue what they are doing and judging out of "guesses" , that would be a horrible experience.
Yeah, how horrible those judges are, wanting things like the ability to go eat during a 12-hour entirely unpaid shift. They deserve to be a disposable resource that a multi-million dollar corporation can use and discard.
It should only take 1 event for you to gain the expectation that that will not happen - thus you simply cut your losses.
Grow up.
If every judge took this route, there would be no judges, no events, and basically no sanctioned game. Is that what you want?
I don't know, I just sort of hold the opinion that judges are people too, and more importantly deserve to be compensated for working as employees.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
More to the point, soup kitchens are not for profit subsidiaries of Hasbro. As much as I would like to start writing FNM entry fees off of my tax bill, WotC is a different type of entity than a non-profit charity.
As a rather successfull company i kidna expect them to hire judges professionally since Tournaments is kinda a big deal. Having judges jsut as volunteers seems incredibly cheap on Wizards's part. If the judges aren't getting fair treatment they all should leave and tournaments would stop existing.
MTG started as a niche game and has evolved into a mega brand that is a huge profit center for a publicly traded company. Judges look like they are still treated like they are helping out a scrappy little niche game company. Legally i have no clue how this will pan out, but even if the current setup is "legal" it is pretty clear Hasbro is taking advantage of Judge's passion for the game for their own profit.
WotC if you can charge $10 a pack for a reprint set and get away with it while breaking grand prix attendance records you can afford to pay your damn judges to do GPs/PTs.
Yeah, how horrible those judges are, wanting things like the ability to go eat during a 12-hour entirely unpaid shift. They deserve to be a disposable resource that a multi-million dollar corporation can use and discard.
It should only take 1 event for you to gain the expectation that that will not happen - thus you simply cut your losses.
Grow up.
If every judge took this route, there would be no judges, no events, and basically no sanctioned game. Is that what you want?
I don't know, I just sort of hold the opinion that judges are people too, and more importantly deserve to be compensated for working as employees.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
Public Mod Note
(LouCypher):
Troll warning - LouCypher
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
It should only take 1 event for you to gain the expectation that that will not happen - thus you simply cut your losses.
Grow up.
If every judge took this route, there would be no judges, no events, and basically no sanctioned game. Is that what you want?
I don't know, I just sort of hold the opinion that judges are people too, and more importantly deserve to be compensated for working as employees.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
So if you do something to help others, get screwed during that process, and seek compensation for getting screwed, that's not "acting like an adult" or "holding themselves accountable"?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
So if you do something to help others, get screwed during that process, and seek compensation for getting screwed, that's not "acting like an adult" or "holding themselves accountable"?
I mean cmon. Seriously. If you judge at an event and you want to make a break, you just do.
If you want to eat something, you just do.
If they blame you for that, i would go haywire and blame them loud and clearly ; and would expect any judge at the event to stand by my side.
Thats what i "expect" , nobody should just accept that, and its totally unncessary to make a lawsuite against WotC if some random TO is doing his job incredible poorly.
WotC prints the cards and does its job.
If the judge program is damaged by this lawsuite, what exactly do we win ? We only lose.
If it means judges get "paid" by WotC expect tournament to be more expensive, and expect much less judges to be around, and much higher standards for that "paid" judges.
For any professional tournament thats allready the case, but the majority of tournaments isnt on that level and not even should be.
----
If you have a poor relationship with your TO as a judge, you allready did a poor job, maybe its not entirely your fault, but theres not one reason why a judge should do "overtime" (i mean that word alone is a joke, you KNOW how long a tournament lasts and if you do not want to stay, you can just walk away, any human will understand if you say you are really tired, whats a tired judge good for ?) ; just dont expect to get paid royaly for judging, its a hobby in the first place and if at all, you get compensations ; if its not fun, dont do it. If your TO is threating you like *****, why on earth are you working with that TO at all ? Seriously ...
You can even report a bad TO to WotC and they will get rid of them, even THAT would be a reasonable option.
But suing WotC in any case here is just a joke and these judges shouldnt be judges in the first place, or should communicate better with TOs, Players and their local coordinators ...
----
If you have any problem with an event, walk away, blame them, theres no reason to sue anybody about that, as thats just silly, extremly silly.
If every judge took this route, there would be no judges, no events, and basically no sanctioned game. Is that what you want?
I don't know, I just sort of hold the opinion that judges are people too, and more importantly deserve to be compensated for working as employees.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
So if you do something to help others, get screwed during that process, and seek compensation for getting screwed, that's not "acting like an adult" or "holding themselves accountable"?
This lawsuit would not exist if it happened to a person 1 or 2 times. Acting like an adult means walking away from situations where you are being taken advantage of, not hanging onto it like a failing high school relationship, and holding yourself accountable when you are putting yourself in a position to continually be taken advantage of.
They volunteered. They knew the circumstances going in. Its not like you cant ask other judges what its like or do research. But now somehow its all "unfair".
Again, it is literally illegal to volunteer for Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The only exception to this rule is that one is allowed to volunteer for public sector companies provided that the volunteer work performed has no relation to the work of the regular job within the company.
Also, the "class" being represented in this suit is Level 2 and above, so Wizards' attempt to distance themselves from the judges rings false especially considering the extremely draconian response to leakgate (Leakghazi?)
Thats cool if those are the rules and laws. Then why are the judges content in going along with it until they decide they want something out of it?
Are you suggesting the judges willingly engaged in illegal work?
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
So if you do something to help others, get screwed during that process, and seek compensation for getting screwed, that's not "acting like an adult" or "holding themselves accountable"?
This lawsuit would not exist if it happened to a person 1 or 2 times. Acting like an adult means walking away from situations where you are being taken advantage of, not hanging onto it like a failing high school relationship, and holding yourself accountable when you are putting yourself in a position to continually be taken advantage of.
I actually heard this exact point in a different debate this week. In that one, he was saying that a girl should have taken responsibility for her attire when she was sexually assaulted.
In the world of debate, we call this "victim blaming". So the party at fault here is the ones who prevented the judges from being able to take breaks or get food, not the judges for allowing this happen to themselves.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
They volunteered. They knew the circumstances going in. Its not like you cant ask other judges what its like or do research. But now somehow its all "unfair".
Again, it is literally illegal to volunteer for Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The only exception to this rule is that one is allowed to volunteer for public sector companies provided that the volunteer work performed has no relation to the work of the regular job within the company.
Also, the "class" being represented in this suit is Level 2 and above, so Wizards' attempt to distance themselves from the judges rings false especially considering the extremely draconian response to leakgate (Leakghazi?)
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love a citation for this. My understanding is that already-employed people can't volunteer without additional compensation, but people who aren't in the direct employ of the company can volunteer if they so choose.
On the topic specifically, I'm really hesitant to see what happens. If the judges win wotc may just disband the judge program, and that's the end of Organized Play. If WotC wins then I'm expecting a lot of judges to get culled.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
C Long Live Eldrazi C
There's a difference between "not recieving benefits" and "not getting a break to get a quick bite in." While we don't know the exact details, it's entirely plausible that at some events, judges get overworked due to either being understaffed, the tournament taking much longer than expected, problematic players, etc etc. It's not too much to ask to be given a few breaks to catch your breath, is there?
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Look, I do volunteer work and last Thanksgiving I did not get a lunch break in my 7 hour shift of helping at a kitchen. I am required to wear a shirt that bears the name of the organization that I volunteer with. At the end of the day, I am volunteering my time doing something that I love and something I think is worth my time and if I do not get a lunch and it bothers me that much - I stop making plans to volunteer at large events like that.
Plain and simple.
In fact, it is not even just holidays I do not get lunch. There have been a number of local animal rescue events I have volunteered for and have not had time to get a lunch in.
Judges are volunteers, nobody is putting a gun to their head or holding the rent bill over them. They are volunteering their time and went into it knowing that they are doing so. You kind of throw your other priorities out of the way when you do something like that.
C Long Live Eldrazi C
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/appellate-courts/cadc/14-1247/14-1247-2016-04-19.html
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/oregon/ordce/3:2005cv01127/74483/63/
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
C Long Live Eldrazi C
Again, it is literally illegal to volunteer for Wizards of the Coast/Hasbro. The only exception to this rule is that one is allowed to volunteer for public sector companies provided that the volunteer work performed has no relation to the work of the regular job within the company.
Also, the "class" being represented in this suit is Level 2 and above, so Wizards' attempt to distance themselves from the judges rings false especially considering the extremely draconian response to leakgate (Leakghazi?)
From a legal standpoint, I have no clue what could happen, if anything could happen.
I mean, everyone that wants to be a judge can become one, do a test, it doesnt cost money , you just need to have the knowledge.
It would be downright ridiculous to have judges at events that do not have any form of test and just lay out the rules as they wish ; that cant work and if anybody wants that, i doubt your mind works as intended (i mean seriously).
In any bigger event you can be damn glad theres people that know what they are doing.
If you work "overtime" as a judge, you can just skip, leave, nothing really prevents you from doing so.
If you have any form of "contract" with your TO; you can blame THEM and THEM alone, as thats your first person to ask for anything , and i still have to see a TO that would go full ******** mode to a judge and not give them some form of privilege or care (i mean thats just basic human social part that shouldnt be even up for debate).
WotC cares for their big professional events and that works for an eternity.
A lvl 1 local game store judge will out of necessity get in contact with that game store owner and they will allways get something for doing that job, and thats just as a hobby, for fun, its not a "job" you do to get payment, you either enjoy judging or you are plain wrong at that position.
----
If a store chooses they just do tournament without judges at all, its their decision.
If you want to run a Grand Prix you better have judges, and making that mandatory is just plain human sence, just think a second a Grand Prix is run by people that have no clue what they are doing and judging out of "guesses" , that would be a horrible experience.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
Glad you help people out. Good for you.
Here's the issue that you seem to miss: volunteers deserve to be treated fairly too. You not getting a break or a meal at the soup kitchen is every bit as bullcrap as the judges not getting rest. Federal law mandates breaks and lunches for employees working more than six hours, and breaks for working under that (based on four hour increments). Why should the volunteers be treated different considering they are the ones helping put money in the company's pocket?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
Pauper: Burn
Modern: Burn
Legacy: Burn
EDH: Marath, Will of the Wild - Ramp/Combo | Anafenza the Foremost - French | Uril, the Miststalker - Voltron | Freyalise, Llanowar's Fury - Goodstuff
Ghost Council of Orzhov - Tokens | Lazav, Dimir Mastermind - Control | Isamaru, Hound of Konda - Tiny Leaders
WotC if you can charge $10 a pack for a reprint set and get away with it while breaking grand prix attendance records you can afford to pay your damn judges to do GPs/PTs.
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
Not sure where you seem to think I disagree that volunteers should be treated fairly.
I do expect judges t be adults, and act like it. These Judges are not, they are being petty. It is a sad day when MTG judges cannot hold themselves accountable for making bad choices.
How is that not "Adult Behavior"?
Seems to me that dismissing their lawsuit out of hand (which a capital "J" Judge hasn't done yet)is more childish than anything else.
If it's illegal, it's horribly misguided law.
Ton of wasted time and effort. That is high school *****.
So if you do something to help others, get screwed during that process, and seek compensation for getting screwed, that's not "acting like an adult" or "holding themselves accountable"?
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I mean cmon. Seriously. If you judge at an event and you want to make a break, you just do.
If you want to eat something, you just do.
If they blame you for that, i would go haywire and blame them loud and clearly ; and would expect any judge at the event to stand by my side.
Thats what i "expect" , nobody should just accept that, and its totally unncessary to make a lawsuite against WotC if some random TO is doing his job incredible poorly.
WotC prints the cards and does its job.
If the judge program is damaged by this lawsuite, what exactly do we win ? We only lose.
If it means judges get "paid" by WotC expect tournament to be more expensive, and expect much less judges to be around, and much higher standards for that "paid" judges.
For any professional tournament thats allready the case, but the majority of tournaments isnt on that level and not even should be.
----
If you have a poor relationship with your TO as a judge, you allready did a poor job, maybe its not entirely your fault, but theres not one reason why a judge should do "overtime" (i mean that word alone is a joke, you KNOW how long a tournament lasts and if you do not want to stay, you can just walk away, any human will understand if you say you are really tired, whats a tired judge good for ?) ; just dont expect to get paid royaly for judging, its a hobby in the first place and if at all, you get compensations ; if its not fun, dont do it. If your TO is threating you like *****, why on earth are you working with that TO at all ? Seriously ...
You can even report a bad TO to WotC and they will get rid of them, even THAT would be a reasonable option.
But suing WotC in any case here is just a joke and these judges shouldnt be judges in the first place, or should communicate better with TOs, Players and their local coordinators ...
----
If you have any problem with an event, walk away, blame them, theres no reason to sue anybody about that, as thats just silly, extremly silly.
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
This lawsuit would not exist if it happened to a person 1 or 2 times. Acting like an adult means walking away from situations where you are being taken advantage of, not hanging onto it like a failing high school relationship, and holding yourself accountable when you are putting yourself in a position to continually be taken advantage of.
Are you suggesting the judges willingly engaged in illegal work?
C Long Live Eldrazi C
I actually heard this exact point in a different debate this week. In that one, he was saying that a girl should have taken responsibility for her attire when she was sexually assaulted.
In the world of debate, we call this "victim blaming". So the party at fault here is the ones who prevented the judges from being able to take breaks or get food, not the judges for allowing this happen to themselves.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
I'm not saying you're wrong, but I would love a citation for this. My understanding is that already-employed people can't volunteer without additional compensation, but people who aren't in the direct employ of the company can volunteer if they so choose.
On the topic specifically, I'm really hesitant to see what happens. If the judges win wotc may just disband the judge program, and that's the end of Organized Play. If WotC wins then I'm expecting a lot of judges to get culled.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP