No synergy with Nahiri (and by that I mean Garruk as a PW).
Nahiri is prey. Bolas is prey. Even Emrakul is Garruk's prey at this point. And whenever he defeats an enemy he gains their power. He is the ultimate power and villain.
Meh the idea isn't whether Emrakul is the threat. That part is obvious. How the mightiest Eldrazi titan will be defeated on a plane that's not Zendikar, on the other hand...
In my opinion, she won't. The 'good guys' don't always win. That makes for a boring story and poor character development. We've just gone through a story where Jace & co. banded together, faced poor odds and succeeded. Hooray. But failure can grow a character just as much. The last 2 times we've seen the eldrazi, they lost, it makes them feel a little toothless. This time? Maybe they don't get lucky and the big Em wins.
She comes, maybe hatches out of the unseen eldritch moon. The assumption is that Nahiri had done something to Avacyn to drive her mad, but she's been a puppet to the same madness. Why would Emrakul bother? Weaken possible defenses. If a number of people have been killed by the angels and inquisition, less resistance to her invasion. If several sets of eyes are glued to what Nahiri is doing, there are fewer eyes working on figuring out the larger problem. Between Jace squabbling with Liliana, Sorin focusing on Nahiri and fighting Avacyn and Tamiyo's reluctance to do much of anything, the major players are not collaborating to see the incoming threat or preparing for her arrival. Anyways, she comes and the fight is on. The problem is that the makeup of a team of Jace, Sorin, Tamiyo, Arlinn and Liliana is pretty suspect. Sorin is not much of a team player and would probably focus more on going after Nahiri than going after the larger problem. Tamiyo has showed a bit of reluctance to give her all, even when Jace was about to die. I only put Arlinn there because we have not heard crap about her since chapter 1 of the story, so she must have a larger role in Eldritch Moon. Liliana has always been a wild card, but I get the feeling she helps here. Anyways, a repeat of BfZ ensues but where the eldrazi were taken down by cooperation on Zendikar, no such cooperation exists here. Innistrad will fall, some walkers might flee, others die. I think this is the end for Sorin. I think losing the fight will be the right move, at least story wise. Magic needs an interplanar big bad and it would be foolish to kill them all off in consecutive blocks. Innistrad falling could be a tipping point for a lot of characters. Maybe it causes Tamiyo to observe a little less and act a little more. Maybe after seeing the 'pure evil' that Emrakul's indiscriminate destruction is spurs Liliana into joining the Justice League to prevent it from happening again.
Sure, there would be a downside to that possible chain of events. We'd lose a number of fan favorite characters (Olivia, Thalia etc) and retire the plane for a good long time, if not forever but that is something that happens in good storytelling a lot. After that, leave Emrakul alone for who knows how long. Go do storylines with other antagonists: evil walkers, corrupt governments, Phyrexians whatever. But keeping her alive and actually having her do something, as opposed to the general threat of 'well, she does this, but we've never seen her do it, take our word for it' is the kind of looming threat that can be fun to dangle every now and then. As far as Nahiri goes, we've seen what kind of prison she is in store for while reading 'The Blight We Were Born For'. Just replace Tazri with Nahiri and Kozilek with Emrakul. It would be suiting considering Nahiri was once Emrakul's prison guard.
Anyways, speculation is speculation, but this seems like a logical direction for them to go in.
They can't kill emrakul because ugin said that was the dumbest thing to do (when they killed kozilek and Ulamog) so it has to be by capture
What is stopping them from killing Emrakul? Just because Ugin said it was dumb didn't stop them last time. I mean, they won't kill Emrakul, but nothing is really stopping them from doing so except her vast strength.
They can't kill emrakul because ugin said that was the dumbest thing to do (when they killed kozilek and Ulamog) so it has to be by capture
What is stopping them from killing Emrakul? Just because Ugin said it was dumb didn't stop them last time. I mean, they won't kill Emrakul, but nothing is really stopping them from doing so except her vast strength.
Because after ugin left Jace felt guilty
And ugin mentioned something about at long time in the future after they passed on something immensely horrible is going to happen.
Meh the idea isn't whether Emrakul is the threat. That part is obvious. How the mightiest Eldrazi titan will be defeated on a plane that's not Zendikar, on the other hand...
How about the way mentioned in the thread that first suggested Emrakul is on Zendikar: The eldrazi titan is defeated by imprisoning them again in the giant prison that the Helvault was just a tiny splinter of: Innistrad's (original) moon.
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Planar Chaos was not a mistake neither was it random. You might want to look at it again.
[thread=239793][Game] Level Up - Creature[/thread]
I would imagine that they manage to kill off Emrakul (either in EMN or a future set (maybe the one right after Kaladesh?), and then they'll use the absence of the Eldrazi as the basis for an even greater threat that will emerge because of it. Maybe part of the reason why Nicol Bolas wanted the Eldrazi released was because he knew those pesky do-gooders would destroy them, thereby unleashing the worse threat, which is what he was really after?
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
I think it could work if Emrakul won the battle, but I don't see them wanting to lose Innistrad as a plane. It's too popular.
Hell, are there any planes they would gladly sacrifice at this point? We need Red Shirt: the Plane.
To use the original "hand in the pond" analogy that Ugin told Jace, what if the three titans are just "limbs" of the larger body? Have they elaborated on whether or not there are more Eldrazi titans? If by killing Ulamog/Kozilek, does Emerakul absorb their roles and become a super Titan?
Krypt, I so want you to be right. I hadn't even thought of him - my only hesitation is given the hedron in his skull, I thought his curse was silenced? I suppose it is possible, with Nahiri being on Innistrad, that she removed the hedron as a part of her machination. Furthermore, there are currently a high number of planeswalkers on Innistrad providing fertile hunting grounds for his new prey of choice.
That image is showing pink and purple lattice-like tendrils corrupting the land he is touching. He is going mad as a result of the veil...I think it's a stretch but it would be way cooler than Emrakul, IMO.
Nahiri is prey. Bolas is prey. Even Emrakul is Garruk's prey at this point. And whenever he defeats an enemy he gains their power. He is the ultimate power and villain.
I'm not disputing the logic of that, but it seems silly to make Nahiri "The Harbinger" if her ability cannot tutor for the thing she's theoretically the harbinger of. That would be a bit of a storytelling disaster.
Nahiri is prey. Bolas is prey. Even Emrakul is Garruk's prey at this point. And whenever he defeats an enemy he gains their power. He is the ultimate power and villain.
I'm not disputing the logic of that, but it seems silly to make Nahiri "The Harbinger" if her ability cannot tutor for the thing she's theoretically the harbinger of. That would be a bit of a storytelling disaster.
Now, Garruk continues his search not just for Liliana, but all Planeswalkers. The curse transforms him into a creature more unrecognizable with every kill. He embraces his newfound darkness and considers every Planeswalker to be his prey.
I still think the strong odds are with Emrakul, but I don't see anything that necessarily rules out Garruk at the moment.
I'm sure someone here knows more about the lore than I do and could come up with damning evidence against him.
I'm not disputing the logic of that, but it seems silly to make Nahiri "The Harbinger" if her ability cannot tutor for the thing she's theoretically the harbinger of. That would be a bit of a storytelling disaster.
Because Nahiri is mad as well, and she thinks its Emrakul, so she had her abilities work with Emrakul, but she's wrong! (I'm so full of bologna at this point, I'm sorry)
I think they should have gone a lot further with Nahiri and her ability to mute other planeswalkers, functionally imprisoning them, it's quite a powerful ability. The other planeswalkers would naturally not like the idea of a planeswalker capable of this. If I was a walker, I'd probably go after her with an angry walker mob.
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
Totally agreed. Also, it's like two weeks, not six months. Which is even worse.
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
On a similar note, did Jace help destroy two of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse, and then immediately grab a warm coat and planeswalk away from his new buddies to go clue hunting like a day later?
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
On a similar note, did Jace help destroy two of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse, and then immediately grab a warm coat and planeswalk away from his new buddies to go clue hunting like a day later?
Basically.
The Gatewatch took down Ulamog and Kozilek, Ugin showed up called them stupid, and told Jace to go find Sorin.
My main complaint about Emrakul (if it is, in fact, Emrakul) is that it's boring, kinda lazy storytelling.
"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
On a similar note, did Jace help destroy two of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse, and then immediately grab a warm coat and planeswalk away from his new buddies to go clue hunting like a day later?
Basically.
The Gatewatch took down Ulamog and Kozilek, Ugin showed up called them stupid, and told Jace to go find Sorin.
To find sorin...
So sorin could tell him where nahiri was...
So they could lure emrakul into another trap...
...which is why I hate the SOI story so far.
Ugin: go on this journey to save the suniverse!
Jace: well how convinent would it be if all the pieces are in the same place?
Ugin: im talking about two planeswalkers and a world eating monster...so extremely unlikely.
WotC: about that...
Two theories:
Nicol Bolas wanted the eldrazi to be released so he could harness their powers, SOI is him experimenting with that ability.
Onakke and/or other force behind the chain veil.
Nahiri is prey. Bolas is prey. Even Emrakul is Garruk's prey at this point. And whenever he defeats an enemy he gains their power. He is the ultimate power and villain.
In my opinion, she won't. The 'good guys' don't always win. That makes for a boring story and poor character development. We've just gone through a story where Jace & co. banded together, faced poor odds and succeeded. Hooray. But failure can grow a character just as much. The last 2 times we've seen the eldrazi, they lost, it makes them feel a little toothless. This time? Maybe they don't get lucky and the big Em wins.
She comes, maybe hatches out of the unseen eldritch moon. The assumption is that Nahiri had done something to Avacyn to drive her mad, but she's been a puppet to the same madness. Why would Emrakul bother? Weaken possible defenses. If a number of people have been killed by the angels and inquisition, less resistance to her invasion. If several sets of eyes are glued to what Nahiri is doing, there are fewer eyes working on figuring out the larger problem. Between Jace squabbling with Liliana, Sorin focusing on Nahiri and fighting Avacyn and Tamiyo's reluctance to do much of anything, the major players are not collaborating to see the incoming threat or preparing for her arrival. Anyways, she comes and the fight is on. The problem is that the makeup of a team of Jace, Sorin, Tamiyo, Arlinn and Liliana is pretty suspect. Sorin is not much of a team player and would probably focus more on going after Nahiri than going after the larger problem. Tamiyo has showed a bit of reluctance to give her all, even when Jace was about to die. I only put Arlinn there because we have not heard crap about her since chapter 1 of the story, so she must have a larger role in Eldritch Moon. Liliana has always been a wild card, but I get the feeling she helps here. Anyways, a repeat of BfZ ensues but where the eldrazi were taken down by cooperation on Zendikar, no such cooperation exists here. Innistrad will fall, some walkers might flee, others die. I think this is the end for Sorin. I think losing the fight will be the right move, at least story wise. Magic needs an interplanar big bad and it would be foolish to kill them all off in consecutive blocks. Innistrad falling could be a tipping point for a lot of characters. Maybe it causes Tamiyo to observe a little less and act a little more. Maybe after seeing the 'pure evil' that Emrakul's indiscriminate destruction is spurs Liliana into joining the Justice League to prevent it from happening again.
Sure, there would be a downside to that possible chain of events. We'd lose a number of fan favorite characters (Olivia, Thalia etc) and retire the plane for a good long time, if not forever but that is something that happens in good storytelling a lot. After that, leave Emrakul alone for who knows how long. Go do storylines with other antagonists: evil walkers, corrupt governments, Phyrexians whatever. But keeping her alive and actually having her do something, as opposed to the general threat of 'well, she does this, but we've never seen her do it, take our word for it' is the kind of looming threat that can be fun to dangle every now and then. As far as Nahiri goes, we've seen what kind of prison she is in store for while reading 'The Blight We Were Born For'. Just replace Tazri with Nahiri and Kozilek with Emrakul. It would be suiting considering Nahiri was once Emrakul's prison guard.
Anyways, speculation is speculation, but this seems like a logical direction for them to go in.
Since emrakul is now 99% because of the new blog
They can't kill emrakul because ugin said that was the dumbest thing to do (when they killed kozilek and Ulamog) so it has to be by capture
What is stopping them from killing Emrakul? Just because Ugin said it was dumb didn't stop them last time. I mean, they won't kill Emrakul, but nothing is really stopping them from doing so except her vast strength.
Because after ugin left Jace felt guilty
And ugin mentioned something about at long time in the future after they passed on something immensely horrible is going to happen.
Even though not many people like the idea on emrakul on innistrad
Look on the bright side we may get a EDH legal emrakul (but depends on this emrakul so abilitys.)
How about the way mentioned in the thread that first suggested Emrakul is on Zendikar: The eldrazi titan is defeated by imprisoning them again in the giant prison that the Helvault was just a tiny splinter of: Innistrad's (original) moon.
Finally a good white villain quote: "So, do I ever re-evaluate my life choices? Never, because I know what I'm doing is a righteous cause."
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"OH NO, TWO OF THE ELDRAZI ARE BACK!"
"IT'S OK WE CAN KILL THEM!"
"But wait! There's a third...and she's out there...somewhere. I wonder where she is; what havoc she could be wreaking; what horrible sins she's committing...and I hope we don't find out too late. We waited six years to destroy two of the beasts...we will strive as long as it takes -- forever, if need be! -- to vanquish the third!"
*six months later*
"OOP! Ok, found her guys."
It's just...ugh. It's like if a movie trilogy is released all at once. Where's the suspense? The mystery? The bated-breath intrigue? You can't set up an epic quest to kill Emrakul and then resolve it in a single small set 6 months later. It's bad writing.
I think it could work if Emrakul won the battle, but I don't see them wanting to lose Innistrad as a plane. It's too popular.
Hell, are there any planes they would gladly sacrifice at this point? We need Red Shirt: the Plane.
I got a master ball, let's do this.
Krypt, I so want you to be right. I hadn't even thought of him - my only hesitation is given the hedron in his skull, I thought his curse was silenced? I suppose it is possible, with Nahiri being on Innistrad, that she removed the hedron as a part of her machination. Furthermore, there are currently a high number of planeswalkers on Innistrad providing fertile hunting grounds for his new prey of choice.
That image is showing pink and purple lattice-like tendrils corrupting the land he is touching. He is going mad as a result of the veil...I think it's a stretch but it would be way cooler than Emrakul, IMO.
I'm not disputing the logic of that, but it seems silly to make Nahiri "The Harbinger" if her ability cannot tutor for the thing she's theoretically the harbinger of. That would be a bit of a storytelling disaster.
There is very recent precedent of a planeswalker losing their spark and being printed as a creature: Ob Nixilis, the Fallen // Ob Nixilis, Unshackled
I still think the strong odds are with Emrakul, but I don't see anything that necessarily rules out Garruk at the moment.
I'm sure someone here knows more about the lore than I do and could come up with damning evidence against him.
Because Nahiri is mad as well, and she thinks its Emrakul, so she had her abilities work with Emrakul, but she's wrong! (I'm so full of bologna at this point, I'm sorry)
I think they should have gone a lot further with Nahiri and her ability to mute other planeswalkers, functionally imprisoning them, it's quite a powerful ability. The other planeswalkers would naturally not like the idea of a planeswalker capable of this. If I was a walker, I'd probably go after her with an angry walker mob.
Totally agreed. Also, it's like two weeks, not six months. Which is even worse.
On a similar note, did Jace help destroy two of the most powerful beings in the Multiverse, and then immediately grab a warm coat and planeswalk away from his new buddies to go clue hunting like a day later?
Basically.
The Gatewatch took down Ulamog and Kozilek, Ugin showed up called them stupid, and told Jace to go find Sorin.
To find sorin...
So sorin could tell him where nahiri was...
So they could lure emrakul into another trap...
...which is why I hate the SOI story so far.
Ugin: go on this journey to save the suniverse!
Jace: well how convinent would it be if all the pieces are in the same place?
Ugin: im talking about two planeswalkers and a world eating monster...so extremely unlikely.
WotC: about that...
She also brings in artifacts. Would imagine a giant silver moon with powers to change and imprison things would be represented as an artifact.
Nicol Bolas wanted the eldrazi to be released so he could harness their powers, SOI is him experimenting with that ability.
Onakke and/or other force behind the chain veil.
I'm not convinced of Emrakul theory.
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