They still stick out like sore thumbs, fact is the art would benefit more from them NOT being there.
Ya...fact...
So which ones look better with the cryptolyphs than they would without?
All of them. Except the Swamp, where the cryptolyth stands out just a wee bit too much. And that's a fact.
Oops, here I go confusing fact and opinion again.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Good to see another good rare in Sin prodder. There were a few stinkers last week... I'm predicting that the choice will be difficult and painful about 45% of the time for your opponent, 20% easy (bin cheap removal), and 35% put land into gy obviously. That 45% is where the card is fun and good.
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My favorite flavor text: Time of Heroes
Feel free to tell me yours!
The Devil looks painfull in Limited, constructed not so much, as explained above. I love to take 1 to get your lightning bolt in your graveyard.
That's assuming you always get the bolt. And even then, it is 1 damage for "free" that is done. Add in effects like Snapcaster Mage or Goblin Dark-Dwellers and it might actually be a benefit. Plus for every Lightning Bolt thrown into the GY, there is a 2-3 CMC non-burn turned into burn. And as others keep pointing out, at WORST this is a 3/2 menace for 3 with the benefit of removing a dead land off the top of your library.
Sin prodder isn't as good as he looks. They can get rid of lands at no cost and burn for less than they would take if you cast the spell.
You're still drawing, though. You're still digging 2 cards each turn. You will obviously have 3 mana just by virtue of casting him, at that point, are additional lands even necessary? Also, cards in your GY are much better than cards in your library, even lands. It forces your opponents to make sound decisions, with really no drawback.
Tireless tracker seems to have potential as constructed playable. Even at 3 tough it still wouldn't seem "pushed" though. Definitely a limited all-star.
I was working with mainly token-based strategies for R/G post-rotation, but pairing Tireless Tracker with Mina and Denn, Wildborn seems pretty interesting
Sin Prodder is awful. Any time you reveal a land and your opponent just gets to know that you bricked for a turn... gross
And you draw a good non-land card so Sin Prodder helepd you dig for an usefull card.Look at that
Sin Prodder is yet another trap/"punisher" card. You'll never get what you want from it.
You are still drawing one extra card per turn however. If they choose to take the damage, you're still hitting your goal of damaging the opponent. Vexing Devil is another devil that gives your opponent the choice of a punch in the face from the left hand or the right. Especially since you still draw your card for the turn anyway, which means 99% of the time the situation is going to be:
Reveal land, your opponent lets you discard it and gets dealt 0 damage
Reveal non-land, if it's a creature your opponent can handle, they let you draw it. If they can't deal with it, they take the damage and you lose the creature.
Reveal non-land, if it's a burn spell, you are going to be drawing it on TOP of your normal draw unless the CMC of the burn spell is > than the damage dealt by it (Exquisite Firecraft as an example) at which point it is better to force you to discard it and take the damage now.
This is all in addition to your draw for turn. Menace is one of those slapped on bonuses but anyone who remembers how much of a pain blocking Stormblood Berserker, or anything enchanted with Madcap Skills.
sin prodder is pretty cool! I love punisher cards and this is one of the best I have ever seen. even if your opponent takes no damage and gets rid of a land on your upkeep you still have a 3/2 menace for 3 and I would play the heck out of that.
GW lil detectives I hope will be a thing because its a cute idea. *pulls of mask* 'it was dragonlord ojutai the whole time!' 'I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids and your clip wings!'
Between Tireless Tracker and Bygone Bishop, it's entirely possible to make a Collected Company deck where every single card you draw investigates except for the Companies themselves. That seems rather fun (and it gives you end-of-turn things to do while holding up mana bluffing a Company).
And I'll gladly take Sin Prodder for my Red decks, especially the flashback-y ones.
Sin Prodder's trigger does NOT replace your regular draw step. If your opp sees a land and lets you keep it, you then ALSO draw for the turn. The only feel bad moment for this guy in standard will be when you reveal a two mana 3 damage burn spell and they bin it for 2 damage. But you still draw a new card. And have a 3/2 Menace. There is almost no downside to this 'punisher' trigger. The card is good and will be played in standard red decks as a 4 of.
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Tournament Victories:
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
I like the cryptoliths on most of the arts--not the swamp, but the rest. I actually like that they stick out, as they show a sense of 'wrongness' without being too obtrusive.
As for the cards, I think dismissing Sin Prodder as another punisher effect isn't fair to the card. It might not end up being playable anyways, but a 3/2 for 3 with Menace is pretty decent. It's not great or anything, I'm not saying that, but it's fine, and you'll be happy to have that on the field. So there is a pretty decent floor for how bad this card can be. It's not like something like Vexing Devil, Browbeat, and other punisher cards that have two wildly different effects that happen once. Additionally, this trigger happens multiple times, and your opponent is always going to pick the one that hurts them the least, but that will still push you towards winning no matter what they pick. You get either free damage or free card drawing. And if there's a land on top of your library, your opponent is going to send it to the graveyard but that just means that you, the red deck, are less likely to draw a land next turn, and that's still a worthwhile effect. And it does this every turn, for no additional investment, while Sin Proder is also attacking and helping its own effect, because as your oppponent's life total gets lower, they're going to have to let you draw the card more often.
This card isn't good in a deck where you want to draw specific cards, but in a deck like a red aggro deck where your cards are pretty interchangable, his effect gets much better because you're just trying to convert all your cards into damage anyways. and the 'feel bad' of "oh, they milled that card I was going to draw for some damage and now I can't cast it" is actually pretty meaningless, since it's just the same thing as if you were never going to draw that card anyways, and for every time that happens there will be a time that that mill gets you closer to a card you wanted more, so it balances out.
Sin Prodder's trigger does NOT replace your regular draw step. If your opp sees a land and lets you keep it, you then ALSO draw for the turn. The only feel bad moment for this guy in standard will be when you reveal a two mana 3 damage burn spell and they bin it for 2 damage. But you still draw a new card. And have a 3/2 Menace. There is almost no downside to this 'punisher' trigger. The card is good and will be played in standard red decks as a 4 of.
I agree, because even if you are revealing lands you then don't need to draw it for your turn, which red is very much interested in.
The people saying Sin Prodder is unplayable in constructed are the same people who were saying Flip Jace "doesn't look that good". Sin prodder is excellent. Any card revealed to it that your opponent chooses to bin could just as easily be assumed to be on the bottom of your library. Not to mention all of the graveyard interactions and things like Delerium. People are assuming that because this ability gives your opponent some control over the advantage this card generates for you that it is not an advantage. That is foolish. There are many ways this card could work for you. Talk about binning a lightning bolt for 1, but now you took 1 damage for 0 mana, I draw, and you have to block my 3/2 with 2 creatures or take 3 anyways, and hope to god I didn't just draw 2-3 damage in my red aggro deck.
I'm really not sure where the disconnect is for these folks. Tracker looks pretty good too, I'm a fan of any card that provides incidental advantages.
EDIT: I just wanted to drop in and point out that this does not significantly affect your ability to hit land drops or avoid flooding provided your deck is truly randomized. Just imagine the ability revealed the bottom card of your library instead. Same thing.
Love the basic lands! Especially the lush looking island with a hint of ominous tones, and the Island with the lighthouse or tower. The Swamp with the broken wagon looks classic!
The Devil looks painfull in Limited, constructed not so much, as explained above. I love to take 1 to get your lightning bolt in your graveyard.
And i draw another bolt and you took 4 damage in a turn and i have a 3/2 menace in the field yet
And then I draw my pieces to summon Exodia.
You don't really seem to understand how mill works mathematically. Using the argument that you can put their bolt in the graveyard with it is true but you are still taking 1 damage for 0 cards or mana then.
You cannot judge it by what you are hoping to mill with it, that extra card shown could just as easily dig you towards the card yo need instead.
Sure, you got to remove a bolt they needed. In most cases yo will not reveal a 4-of in a deck but rather he will dig one extra card towards it. There are a LOT of math about this and basically you cannot judge mill by what you hope to hit.
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Sin prodder doesn't guarantee you a card. For those that are comparing it to Dark Confidant, the whole point of it was to get an extra draw at the cost of life. Since Jund/Junk has low CMC and high land counts, it was very useful this way.
The scenarios that the prodder presents are not entirely great:
If you need a land and the card revealed is a land, you will not get it. You lose the draw you needed. The next card drawn is independent of this, however, you just lost a piece.
If you reveal a spell, on average, losing life on small spells is always better than to let you draw the spell. So for standard RDW, this guy will probably deal a few damage while preventing you from drawing a nicely costed card.
So this card cannot be cast early in limited, it cannot give great value in standard unless more revealed cards make it work (delve rotates out after all), it cannot compete with bob in modern.
For those jumping in yelling "RTFC it doesn't replace the draw step", we know that. We're saying your opponent will always bin your lands on the trigger. So if you needed it, you won't get it.
All of them. Except the Swamp, where the cryptolyth stands out just a wee bit too much. And that's a fact.
Oops, here I go confusing fact and opinion again.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Feel free to tell me yours!
Summoning Exodia = Drawing 2 Bolts....K
Also this guy will shine in Standard not Modeern.Standard doesn't bolt anyways but have Fiery Impulse instead making it better then bolt in this case
That's assuming you always get the bolt. And even then, it is 1 damage for "free" that is done. Add in effects like Snapcaster Mage or Goblin Dark-Dwellers and it might actually be a benefit. Plus for every Lightning Bolt thrown into the GY, there is a 2-3 CMC non-burn turned into burn. And as others keep pointing out, at WORST this is a 3/2 menace for 3 with the benefit of removing a dead land off the top of your library.
You're still drawing, though. You're still digging 2 cards each turn. You will obviously have 3 mana just by virtue of casting him, at that point, are additional lands even necessary? Also, cards in your GY are much better than cards in your library, even lands. It forces your opponents to make sound decisions, with really no drawback.
I need some of those basics in foil. Especially that colourful island.
And you draw a good non-land card so Sin Prodder helepd you dig for an usefull card.Look at that
You are still drawing one extra card per turn however. If they choose to take the damage, you're still hitting your goal of damaging the opponent. Vexing Devil is another devil that gives your opponent the choice of a punch in the face from the left hand or the right. Especially since you still draw your card for the turn anyway, which means 99% of the time the situation is going to be:
Reveal land, your opponent lets you discard it and gets dealt 0 damage
Reveal non-land, if it's a creature your opponent can handle, they let you draw it. If they can't deal with it, they take the damage and you lose the creature.
Reveal non-land, if it's a burn spell, you are going to be drawing it on TOP of your normal draw unless the CMC of the burn spell is > than the damage dealt by it (Exquisite Firecraft as an example) at which point it is better to force you to discard it and take the damage now.
This is all in addition to your draw for turn. Menace is one of those slapped on bonuses but anyone who remembers how much of a pain blocking Stormblood Berserker, or anything enchanted with Madcap Skills.
GW lil detectives I hope will be a thing because its a cute idea. *pulls of mask* 'it was dragonlord ojutai the whole time!' 'I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn't for you meddling kids and your clip wings!'
They have no idea if you bricked because this doesn't replace your draw. Its in addition to your draw.
And I'll gladly take Sin Prodder for my Red decks, especially the flashback-y ones.
Sin Prodder's trigger does NOT replace your regular draw step. If your opp sees a land and lets you keep it, you then ALSO draw for the turn. The only feel bad moment for this guy in standard will be when you reveal a two mana 3 damage burn spell and they bin it for 2 damage. But you still draw a new card. And have a 3/2 Menace. There is almost no downside to this 'punisher' trigger. The card is good and will be played in standard red decks as a 4 of.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
As for the cards, I think dismissing Sin Prodder as another punisher effect isn't fair to the card. It might not end up being playable anyways, but a 3/2 for 3 with Menace is pretty decent. It's not great or anything, I'm not saying that, but it's fine, and you'll be happy to have that on the field. So there is a pretty decent floor for how bad this card can be. It's not like something like Vexing Devil, Browbeat, and other punisher cards that have two wildly different effects that happen once. Additionally, this trigger happens multiple times, and your opponent is always going to pick the one that hurts them the least, but that will still push you towards winning no matter what they pick. You get either free damage or free card drawing. And if there's a land on top of your library, your opponent is going to send it to the graveyard but that just means that you, the red deck, are less likely to draw a land next turn, and that's still a worthwhile effect. And it does this every turn, for no additional investment, while Sin Proder is also attacking and helping its own effect, because as your oppponent's life total gets lower, they're going to have to let you draw the card more often.
This card isn't good in a deck where you want to draw specific cards, but in a deck like a red aggro deck where your cards are pretty interchangable, his effect gets much better because you're just trying to convert all your cards into damage anyways. and the 'feel bad' of "oh, they milled that card I was going to draw for some damage and now I can't cast it" is actually pretty meaningless, since it's just the same thing as if you were never going to draw that card anyways, and for every time that happens there will be a time that that mill gets you closer to a card you wanted more, so it balances out.
I agree, because even if you are revealing lands you then don't need to draw it for your turn, which red is very much interested in.
What red aggro deck needs more than 3-4 lands? Also if they bin one there's no guarantee you won't draw one on your draw step.
Indianapolis Regionals 2009 (Standard)
Worldwake Gameday (Limited)
See my alters here: http://s132.photobucket.com/albums/q16/jimmy2do/Cards/
As has been stated several times by now, you STILL get your regular draw AND you are already at 3 lands by this point...
SO it avoid mana flood?Thats cool for Red
Also this DOESN'T REPLACE YOUR REGULAR DRAW
Holy ***** people read the card properlly.I'll probably get flaked from the mods but is really getting irritating with this missinformation
Which can be fine in a very aggressive mono red build. It makes for interesting decisions: can I afford to miss my land drops?
EDIT: nath'd.
I'm really not sure where the disconnect is for these folks. Tracker looks pretty good too, I'm a fan of any card that provides incidental advantages.
EDIT: I just wanted to drop in and point out that this does not significantly affect your ability to hit land drops or avoid flooding provided your deck is truly randomized. Just imagine the ability revealed the bottom card of your library instead. Same thing.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
We will also have Fiery Temper which is a no lose as they'll eat 3 one way or another
You don't really seem to understand how mill works mathematically. Using the argument that you can put their bolt in the graveyard with it is true but you are still taking 1 damage for 0 cards or mana then.
You cannot judge it by what you are hoping to mill with it, that extra card shown could just as easily dig you towards the card yo need instead.
Sure, you got to remove a bolt they needed. In most cases yo will not reveal a 4-of in a deck but rather he will dig one extra card towards it. There are a LOT of math about this and basically you cannot judge mill by what you hope to hit.
EDIT: I'm just very very dumb
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Rules Advisor
LOL i actually wanted to mentione Fiery temper wich in this case is better then bolt
The scenarios that the prodder presents are not entirely great:
If you need a land and the card revealed is a land, you will not get it. You lose the draw you needed. The next card drawn is independent of this, however, you just lost a piece.
If you reveal a spell, on average, losing life on small spells is always better than to let you draw the spell. So for standard RDW, this guy will probably deal a few damage while preventing you from drawing a nicely costed card.
So this card cannot be cast early in limited, it cannot give great value in standard unless more revealed cards make it work (delve rotates out after all), it cannot compete with bob in modern.
For those jumping in yelling "RTFC it doesn't replace the draw step", we know that. We're saying your opponent will always bin your lands on the trigger. So if you needed it, you won't get it.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo