All of these new wonderful madness cards are going to make me retune my Nath deck
Madness really seems almost redundant here. It's at its strongest when it's giving you a discount on your dudes. This has the same cost and Madness cost, which means it's a fine discard to a loot or another discard activation, but it's not 100% necessary.
Mostly this is just a Blood Scrivener with +1 power and an additional chance to trigger.
I get the feeling they probably tested this as a 2/1 with a madness cost of B, but decided being able to play this for B with the ability it had was too powerful, and that perhaps nerfing it down to a 1/1 made it too underpowered. I imagine the 3/1 then is a compromise to needing to increase its madness cost for balance reasons, but that at this point they just decided to keep madness because they wanted to give it madness.
I actually could see this being balanced and more interesting as a 2/1 with flying and that madness cost, although maybe that effect on a evasive creature may have been a bit much.
kind of newer to card evaluation but is this not better than Dark Confidant
No, this is not near the power level of Dark Confidant. It's only good in topdeck mode or in Madness/discard-heavy decks. The amount of time any player spends in a game with 0 cards in hand is minimal, and you'd better hope it's your opponent. If it is, you're already winning.
kind of newer to card evaluation but is this not better than Dark Confidant
No, this is not near the power level of Dark Confidant. It's only good in topdeck mode or in Madness/discard-heavy decks. The amount of time any player spends in a game with 0 cards in hand is minimal, and you'd better hope it's your opponent. If it is, you're already winning.
Yeah, it is hard to say it is better bob, but that doesn't mean Jund might not be interested in it somewhere. Bob can be a good early play, this never is. On the other hand there is real synergy with Lily, which counts for something. I'm just saying not to rule it out as being playable in that context.
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kind of newer to card evaluation but is this not better than Dark Confidant
No, this is not near the power level of Dark Confidant. It's only good in topdeck mode or in Madness/discard-heavy decks. The amount of time any player spends in a game with 0 cards in hand is minimal, and you'd better hope it's your opponent. If it is, you're already winning.
Yeah, it is hard to say it is better bob, but that doesn't mean Jund might not be interested in it somewhere. Bob can be a good early play, this never is. On the other hand there is real synergy with Lily, which counts for something. I'm just saying not to rule it out as being playable in that context.
Honestly, if this were a male-vampire-wizard, I probably wouldn't care at all, which is weird because the card should be right up my alley. I guess I just prefer this effect on more stable permanents like Enchantments, generally
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I get the feeling they probably tested this as a 2/1 with a madness cost of B, but decided being able to play this for B with the ability it had was too powerful, and that perhaps nerfing it down to a 1/1 made it too underpowered. I imagine the 3/1 then is a compromise to needing to increase its madness cost for balance reasons, but that at this point they just decided to keep madness because they wanted to give it madness.
I actually could see this being balanced and more interesting as a 2/1 with flying and that madness cost, although maybe that effect on a evasive creature may have been a bit much.
I actually had to read the card a couple times to make sure its actual mana cost wasn't 2B or 3B or something. That would have honestly have made sense with its stats and a Madness of 1B. I guess they decided to really push it though.
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They don't have the same role mostly. Bob is to get card advantage with a 2/1 body, and the only condition is that he most survive until your first upkeep.
This card meanwhile, generate it's value by, pressuring your opponent's hand by discard mostly OR dumping your hand, while having a good aggro body. But notice that the triggers is infinite times harder to get.
The madness is just a cherry on top.
Uh, powercreep much? I honestly think this is better than bob. It's obviously not made for the same strategy, you want to go deep on either discard or superfast aggro with this one.
For modern it's definately not better than bob. The first few turns of a modern game are so super important and this thing does nothing for you there as you only go hellbent later. In standard it might be better, I wouldn't really know. It's still q pretty powerful card thouigh, and it would not surprise if it saw some play in modern in certain decks.
It's no Bob of course, but wow is this just infinitely better than Blood Scrivener. Blood Scrivener seemed like it was really really close to being standard playable and was not in a format that had such heavy madness. I think this card is going to be key for aggressive B/x decks.
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This is interesting. At first blush this is very very good. Black doesn't often get 3 power for 2 mana, and when it does it typically has a steep drawback attached. The drawback on this one is merely having 1 toughness, and in general the 1 toughness is less relevant in black than in white where 3/1 s for 2 are not unusual. So even if this was vanilla it would be under consideration as playable. That it has madness is fantastic. Olivia, Mobilized for War approves, and also helps trigger the splashy ability most people are likely to focus on. She really doesn't even need it to be playable, but if it triggers even once fun times ensue.
In older formats she is as has been observed already, fun times with Liliana of the Veil, but dark confidant is pretty steep competition. An extra power is usually not worth more than the extra cards in the early game for jund style decks, but it isn't impossible that she draws you 2 cards a turn in the late game. On the other hand, Asylum Visitor doesn't come with the same deckbuilding restrictions that bob does. Tasigur the Golden Fang and his clones can tag right along. No need to worry about flipping that Murderous Cut...
kind of newer to card evaluation but is this not better than Dark Confidant
I really hate the "This card is not better than some $50 rare that was reprinted as a mythic and still costs around $40" comparisons. It's so annoying.
I can totally get behind this as a budget replacement in Modern Jund(given that you have the discard spells, which is easier since Thoughtseize was reprinted).
A bit TOO good, maybe. Wow, that is a Black baseline, now? On pushed cards, at least? And it has madness? It's any player's hand? This... card... is like 75% as good as Dark Confidant easily. As opposed to Blood Scrivener being at about 50% and in no way being a bad card. I like it, on that account. A small amount of deck sculpting only to achieve it. It's kind of like DC has suspend 2 or so for the work. Once again, as opposed. Less deck sculpting and more oh, look, it's active easily. Dark Confidant is "one of those cards" that cost two mana is why.
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I can totally get behind this as a budget replacement in Modern Jund(given that you have the discard spells, which is easier since Thoughtseize was reprinted).
To burst the bubble, if you get to draw a card on their upkeep, you dont get to draw an extra on your turn (unless you drew an instant)
True story, and very relevant to the card's power level, but if you get the draw on your turn, it is possible that you get one on the opponent's turn as well. Of course, if that happens you are prolly way ahead even without that 2nd extra card...
Uh, powercreep much? I honestly think this is better than bob. It's obviously not made for the same strategy, you want to go deep on either discard or superfast aggro with this one.
For modern it's definately not better than bob. The first few turns of a modern game are so super important and this thing does nothing for you there as you only go hellbent later. In standard it might be better, I wouldn't really know. It's still q pretty powerful card thouigh, and it would not surprise if it saw some play in modern in certain decks.
How is a 3/1 for 2 doing nothing? Seriously, this is a very aggressively costed creature with tremendous upside if you can consistently empty your opponents hand, and we all know black has cards for that...
Compared to a Tarmogoyf, Bob, Flip Jace, or even a Scooze it's pretty weak. It probably won't do anything besides being a 3/1 for the first 5 turns of the game (which in modern is surprisingly often the whole game), which is not that impressive. Bob needs to be answered right away and digs you out of mana screws as well.
edit: again I'm talking about Modern, I know nothing of standard.
I can totally get behind this as a budget replacement in Modern Jund(given that you have the discard spells, which is easier since Thoughtseize was reprinted).
Modern is a turn 4 format. In Jund you need card advantage right away not after several turns have passed.Also you'll be surprised how hard is to go hellbent consistently if you don't have a Lili on the field. And, if you think about it how much damage can you save by using this over Bob? Bob is a 1.5 damage per turn non-conditional card advantage engine. Visitor is a 1 damage per turn conditional draw engine.
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I get the feeling they probably tested this as a 2/1 with a madness cost of B, but decided being able to play this for B with the ability it had was too powerful, and that perhaps nerfing it down to a 1/1 made it too underpowered. I imagine the 3/1 then is a compromise to needing to increase its madness cost for balance reasons, but that at this point they just decided to keep madness because they wanted to give it madness.
I actually could see this being balanced and more interesting as a 2/1 with flying and that madness cost, although maybe that effect on a evasive creature may have been a bit much.
No, this is not near the power level of Dark Confidant. It's only good in topdeck mode or in Madness/discard-heavy decks. The amount of time any player spends in a game with 0 cards in hand is minimal, and you'd better hope it's your opponent. If it is, you're already winning.
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Yeah, it is hard to say it is better bob, but that doesn't mean Jund might not be interested in it somewhere. Bob can be a good early play, this never is. On the other hand there is real synergy with Lily, which counts for something. I'm just saying not to rule it out as being playable in that context.
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Nice flavor text.
Honestly, if this were a male-vampire-wizard, I probably wouldn't care at all, which is weird because the card should be right up my alley. I guess I just prefer this effect on more stable permanents like Enchantments, generally
I invision a future where one is not mighty when he can silence a crowd with brutality,
but when he leaves them speechless with wisdom.
I actually had to read the card a couple times to make sure its actual mana cost wasn't 2B or 3B or something. That would have honestly have made sense with its stats and a Madness of 1B. I guess they decided to really push it though.
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This card meanwhile, generate it's value by, pressuring your opponent's hand by discard mostly OR dumping your hand, while having a good aggro body. But notice that the triggers is infinite times harder to get.
The madness is just a cherry on top.
For modern it's definately not better than bob. The first few turns of a modern game are so super important and this thing does nothing for you there as you only go hellbent later. In standard it might be better, I wouldn't really know. It's still q pretty powerful card thouigh, and it would not surprise if it saw some play in modern in certain decks.
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In older formats she is as has been observed already, fun times with Liliana of the Veil, but dark confidant is pretty steep competition. An extra power is usually not worth more than the extra cards in the early game for jund style decks, but it isn't impossible that she draws you 2 cards a turn in the late game. On the other hand, Asylum Visitor doesn't come with the same deckbuilding restrictions that bob does. Tasigur the Golden Fang and his clones can tag right along. No need to worry about flipping that Murderous Cut...
I can totally get behind this as a budget replacement in Modern Jund(given that you have the discard spells, which is easier since Thoughtseize was reprinted).
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I can actually see this in Modern Jund over Dark Confidant because you can discard it to Liliana of the Veil, LotV makes people hellbent pretty quickly anyways, and it doesn't smash you in the face for a billion when you flip Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Gurmag Angler off of it.
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True story, and very relevant to the card's power level, but if you get the draw on your turn, it is possible that you get one on the opponent's turn as well. Of course, if that happens you are prolly way ahead even without that 2nd extra card...
Compared to a Tarmogoyf, Bob, Flip Jace, or even a Scooze it's pretty weak. It probably won't do anything besides being a 3/1 for the first 5 turns of the game (which in modern is surprisingly often the whole game), which is not that impressive. Bob needs to be answered right away and digs you out of mana screws as well.
edit: again I'm talking about Modern, I know nothing of standard.
Modern is a turn 4 format. In Jund you need card advantage right away not after several turns have passed.Also you'll be surprised how hard is to go hellbent consistently if you don't have a Lili on the field. And, if you think about it how much damage can you save by using this over Bob? Bob is a 1.5 damage per turn non-conditional card advantage engine. Visitor is a 1 damage per turn conditional draw engine.