The downgrade path MTG is taking is depressive, that was the reason i stop playing standard, you pay alot for a trash card that is staple, and then, when you need to sell, due to rotation or anything else, you cant get even half of what you spent.
It's a hobby, not an investment strategy. Hobbies cost money, they don't make you money.
This "hobby" wasnt like this before, also, playing this game competitively is not a hobby, its an investiment.
I get the feeling if you broke down the income of professional players, it'd be a staggeringly low amount from actual play. There's a reason most of these players write articles, provide coverage, and work under the banners of companies like Channel Fireball and Star City Games.
No, the investment is in collections, and attempting to gauge the "stock-prices" of cards without ever actually playing with them.
I like the cultivator, especially for commander. It taps for multiple colours without a drawback and trades favourably late game. While this might not be a value rare it's still highly playable.
i like this sorin, one of the problems with bob in white/black tokens is the amount of "six" drops and as such, that means no bob, however, this sorin turns that on its head. his minus' arent super cool, but their power can't really be questioned. removal and tokens are both solid. in case of red, i suppose this card has the side effect of gaining six life on a dime. not an amazing trade, but if it wins it works.
though to be completely honest, i hope he is a five dollar walker, because i want some.
...... I really, REALLY don't like the Sorin art. Between this and the general lack of action on his part in the stories, I'm highly suspecting someone in WotC or Hasbro hates him like hell.
That aside, That +1 ability alone is quite nuts. Basically Dark Confidant, except that you hurt other people instead of yourself. Of course, that's precisely why he's expensive. His ultimate feels underwhelming, frankly; I think he's yet another planeswalker whose ultimate will never be seriously played.
And once again, he's white-black. Wizards, please. The only white-black Sorin that makes sense is Lord Of Innistrad, and even then it only fits flavor-wise. This Grim Nemesis could've been pure black and no one will complain, seriously. (ok ok, fine, the "among highest life total" part probably isn't black enough, but really....)
And the Deathcap Hermit is, yes I agree, another rare that shouldn't have been a rare...
I think it's interesting seeing people upset about a 2cmc mana dork as a rare. I would be willing to bet every single person who complained about this card would be against WotC printing an efficient land destruction card. Understand people, wizards likes to balance their cards, and as long as people hate on land destruction, you will continue to get mediocre mana dorks at rare. When stone rain comes back to standard, so will cheap common mana dorks, but not until.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know what this obsession with land destruction is, but regardless of what Wizards does with mana dorks, counterspells, wraths, burn, rituals, or whatever the complaining flavor of the month is, land destruction is never going to be good again.
So, Deathcap Cultivator... you wanna be a Deathrite Shaman when you grow up, do ya, son? Well, you've got work to do! Get off your sorry butt and drop that rarity!
Surprised no one's mentioned Kiora as pairing well with the new mana dork. Her -2 will almost always get you Delirium unless you have an empty yard, and her +1 with any mana dork gets you two turns ahead.
Because the more obvious pairing would be with Mindwrack Demon.
Literally everything you just mentioned are qualities that commons have... He sometimes has deathtouch... sometimes. That's just enough to bump up to uncommon in most peoples' eyes.
Really? Show me a 2 cmc common in relevant past that taps for different colours of mana.
Sure most of these traits are what commons have, but the fact of the matter is he has four different traits. Rarity goes up with complexity, and complexity in this case is the amount of abilities the card has.
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Give credit, where credit is due. Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found. The whip is kept for special occasions
The Internet was a revelation to me, I never imagined there are so many idiots on this planet.
Literally everything you just mentioned are qualities that commons have... He sometimes has deathtouch... sometimes. That's just enough to bump up to uncommon in most peoples' eyes.
Really? Show me a 2 cmc common in relevant past that taps for different colours of mana.
Sure most of these traits are what commons have, but the fact of the matter is he has four different traits. Rarity goes up with complexity, and complexity in this case is the amount of abilities the card has.
No, the card is just a common and its "slightly" more than that.
It could have been uncommon easily, but they ramped it even to rare, and it shouldnt be.
In the end the card will be just as worthless as a common, but if it sees play (and thats likely as you need some ramp, especially as they dont print any useful ramp creatures at common) , it becomes unnecessary expensive (not too much, but still).
In the end the card will be just as worthless as a common, but if it sees play (and thats likely as you need some ramp, especially as they dont print any useful ramp creatures at common) , it becomes unnecessary expensive (not too much, but still).
This is exactly the core problem people have with it, but it is an invalid argument.
People hate 'useless' or trashbin rares, because their money is wasted when they open one.
However that is not the premise that WotC bases their rarity on, even if you and other people don't agree with it.
There are format staple cards that are common or uncommon, but do you ever hear people complain that they should be a rare instead?
It is pure hypocrisy and an emotional response. And to be honost quite frustrating to see people complain in every single spoiler thread about the rarity of a card.
Either accept it, or get a job at WotC and change it yourself.
Heh, you guys are super fast. I deleted my post after I realized his first ability is actually awesome and not another reprint of the craptastic Bob ability. This new Sorin is actually great now that the first ability has been fixed.
Bob actually isn't that "craptastic" either. He's quite good if you have some library manipulation to make sure you always draw the cheapest card with him. No Phyrexian Arena, but if you need a creature, or if you just want 2 cmc instead of 3, or if you're in three-, four, or five-color, Bob is part of the unintentional Goblin PiledriverArcbound RavagerDark ConfidantTarmogoyfStoneforge MysticSnapcaster Mage "really busted two-drop" cycle for a reason, but I digress.
Anyway, Sorin's ability is pretty cool. I like how black now gets the "Just because there's a cost doesn't mean I have to pay it." trope, e.g. Syphon Mind. Sorin looks fun with Sanguine Bond too. Now, he's no Exquisite Blood in that regard, but still, hitting an opponent for 12 is awesome.
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Card advantage is not the same thing as card draw. Something for 2B cannot be strictly worse than something for BBB or 3BB. If you're taking out Swords to Plowshares for Plummet, you're a fool. Stop doing these things!
Heh, you guys are super fast. I deleted my post after I realized his first ability is actually awesome and not another reprint of the craptastic Bob ability. This new Sorin is actually great now that the first ability has been fixed.
Bob actually isn't that "craptastic" either. He's quite good if you have some library manipulation to make sure you always draw the cheapest card with him. No Phyrexian Arena, but if you need a creature, or if you just want 2 cmc instead of 3, or if you're in three-, four, or five-color, Bob is part of the unintentional Goblin PiledriverArcbound RavagerDark ConfidantTarmogoyfStoneforge MysticSnapcaster Mage "really busted two-drop" cycle for a reason, but I digress.
Anyway, Sorin's ability is pretty cool. I like how black now gets the "Just because there's a cost doesn't mean I have to pay it." trope, e.g. Syphon Mind. Sorin looks fun with Sanguine Bond too. Now, he's no Exquisite Blood in that regard, but still, hitting an opponent for 12 is awesome.
You are misquoting me, I said that the Bob ability is 'craptastic', not Bob himself. Bob is obviously one of the all time best 2 drops in the history of the game, but you are right that you have to build around him. His ability, however, is terrible on any other card that has had it since they are usually too expensive or don't provide a cheap 2 drop beater like Bob. The new Sorin with the Bob draw ability would have been unplayable.
The downgrade path MTG is taking is depressive, that was the reason i stop playing standard, you pay alot for a trash card that is staple, and then, when you need to sell, due to rotation or anything else, you cant get even half of what you spent.
It's a hobby, not an investment strategy. Hobbies cost money, they don't make you money.
This "hobby" wasnt like this before, also, playing this game competitively is not a hobby, its an investiment.
That makes no sense. Playing competitively is no more of an investment than playing with friends in your house for the same reason playing poker at a casino is no more of an investment than playing with your friends. You're paying money to have fun. That's the entire point. And define "competitively." Are you playing in the Pro Tour for big cash prizes? How much money have you won? How much did money did you win before the game magically changed and became more expensive?
The downgrade path MTG is taking is depressive, that was the reason i stop playing standard, you pay alot for a trash card that is staple, and then, when you need to sell, due to rotation or anything else, you cant get even half of what you spent.
It's a hobby, not an investment strategy. Hobbies cost money, they don't make you money.
This "hobby" wasnt like this before, also, playing this game competitively is not a hobby, its an investiment.
That makes no sense. Playing competitively is no more of an investment than playing with friends in your house for the same reason playing poker at a casino is no more of an investment than playing with your friends. You're paying money to have fun. That's the entire point. And define "competitively." Are you playing in the Pro Tour for big cash prizes? How much money have you won? How much did money did you win before the game magically changed and became more expensive?
You are misquoting me, I said that the Bob ability is 'craptastic', not Bob himself. Bob is obviously one of the all time best 2 drops in the history of the game, but you are right that you have to build around him. His ability, however, is terrible on any other card that has had it since they are usually too expensive or don't provide a cheap 2 drop beater like Bob. The new Sorin with the Bob draw ability would have been unplayable.
What about Duskmantle Seer? He's a Bob for everyone at once.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I think it's interesting seeing people upset about a 2cmc mana dork as a rare. I would be willing to bet every single person who complained about this card would be against WotC printing an efficient land destruction card. Understand people, wizards likes to balance their cards, and as long as people hate on land destruction, you will continue to get mediocre mana dorks at rare. When stone rain comes back to standard, so will cheap common mana dorks, but not until.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know what this obsession with land destruction is, but regardless of what Wizards does with mana dorks, counterspells, wraths, burn, rituals, or whatever the complaining flavor of the month is, land destruction is never going to be good again.
You don't see what ramping mana, and preventing ramping mana have to do with each other? Do you understand what light and darkness have to do with each other? Or what left and right have to do with each other? Your probably right that land destruction may never be good again, but pretending that land destruction and ramp have nothing to do with each other is either being willfully ignorant or just not understanding the very basics of the game of Magic.
I think it's interesting seeing people upset about a 2cmc mana dork as a rare. I would be willing to bet every single person who complained about this card would be against WotC printing an efficient land destruction card. Understand people, wizards likes to balance their cards, and as long as people hate on land destruction, you will continue to get mediocre mana dorks at rare. When stone rain comes back to standard, so will cheap common mana dorks, but not until.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know what this obsession with land destruction is, but regardless of what Wizards does with mana dorks, counterspells, wraths, burn, rituals, or whatever the complaining flavor of the month is, land destruction is never going to be good again.
You don't see what ramping mana, and preventing ramping mana have to do with each other? Do you understand what light and darkness have to do with each other? Or what left and right have to do with each other? Your probably right that land destruction may never be good again, but pretending that land destruction and ramp have nothing to do with each other is either being willfully ignorant or just not understanding the very basics of the game of Magic.
Was stone rain ever a "fix" for llanowar elves and mana birds of paradise? I think efficient land destruction most preys on decks *without* other sources of mana. And you do know that stone rain was only good when you could drop a mana dork turn one and accelerate into stone rain turn 2, right? And what does complaining about a mana dork being rare have to do with whether you think land destruction should come back or not?
Anyway, this new mana dork is lame as hell. The delirium ability is so unexciting. Deathtouch on a mana dork? Yes, a 2/1 deathtouch for 2 is fine, but not at all worth trying to get delirium for. It's nice that he will ramp you early game and late game may be a more dangerous attacker/blocker, but so was Werebear. I'm against mana dorks being rare but can see why it makes sense in some situations where they do something flashy and exciting, like growing in size and being able add more than 1 mana, or being able to set everyone's life total to the number of creatures they control. A mana dork that conditionally gains deathtouch? No, that's not it.
In the end the card will be just as worthless as a common, but if it sees play (and thats likely as you need some ramp, especially as they dont print any useful ramp creatures at common) , it becomes unnecessary expensive (not too much, but still).
This is exactly the core problem people have with it, but it is an invalid argument.
People hate 'useless' or trashbin rares, because their money is wasted when they open one.
However that is not the premise that WotC bases their rarity on, even if you and other people don't agree with it.
There are format staple cards that are common or uncommon, but do you ever hear people complain that they should be a rare instead?
It is pure hypocrisy and an emotional response. And to be honost quite frustrating to see people complain in every single spoiler thread about the rarity of a card.
Either accept it, or get a job at WotC and change it yourself.
I think it's interesting seeing people upset about a 2cmc mana dork as a rare. I would be willing to bet every single person who complained about this card would be against WotC printing an efficient land destruction card. Understand people, wizards likes to balance their cards, and as long as people hate on land destruction, you will continue to get mediocre mana dorks at rare. When stone rain comes back to standard, so will cheap common mana dorks, but not until.
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know what this obsession with land destruction is, but regardless of what Wizards does with mana dorks, counterspells, wraths, burn, rituals, or whatever the complaining flavor of the month is, land destruction is never going to be good again.
You don't see what ramping mana, and preventing ramping mana have to do with each other? Do you understand what light and darkness have to do with each other? Or what left and right have to do with each other? Your probably right that land destruction may never be good again, but pretending that land destruction and ramp have nothing to do with each other is either being willfully ignorant or just not understanding the very basics of the game of Magic.
Was stone rain ever a "fix" for llanowar elves and mana birds of paradise? I think efficient land destruction most preys on decks *without* other sources of mana. And you do know that stone rain was only good when you could drop a mana dork turn one and accelerate into stone rain turn 2, right? And what does complaining about a mana dork being rare have to do with whether you think land destruction should come back or not?
Anyway, this new mana dork is lame as hell. The delirium ability is so unexciting. Deathtouch on a mana dork? Yes, a 2/1 deathtouch for 2 is fine, but not at all worth trying to get delirium for. It's nice that he will ramp you early game and late game may be a more dangerous attacker/blocker, but so was Werebear. I'm against mana dorks being rare but can see why it makes sense in some situations where they do something flashy and exciting, like growing in size and being able add more than 1 mana, or being able to set everyone's life total to the number of creatures they control. A mana dork that conditionally gains deathtouch? No, that's not it.
Well I disagree that stone rain was only good if you played it on turn 2 as their is no official turn 2 format, but your argument that it hurts non ramp decks much more is a very fair statement, enough for WotC to control its use heavily. I can't say I'm a fan of mana dorks at rare either, but it does put a premium on ramp in limited which I think is a good thing. I hated playing people playing green in limited because it was too easy for them to play bomb after bomb early. But with so many new lands with either good utility or just as creatures in general, 4-5 mana removal for them is a joke. And frankly your argument that they were only good if you played a turn 1 dork supports the idea of bringing back stone rain as it can't be played turn 2 anymore.
I get the feeling if you broke down the income of professional players, it'd be a staggeringly low amount from actual play. There's a reason most of these players write articles, provide coverage, and work under the banners of companies like Channel Fireball and Star City Games.
No, the investment is in collections, and attempting to gauge the "stock-prices" of cards without ever actually playing with them.
though to be completely honest, i hope he is a five dollar walker, because i want some.
And I'm really hating these 2cmc mana dorks.
Format with high CC cards - checked
Format with high life - checked
Format which used sorin before - checked
Manadork? WotC stated the new 2 is the old 1 thus the new 4 is the old 3.
Noone will replace Sylvan Caryatid in my heart
That aside, That +1 ability alone is quite nuts. Basically Dark Confidant, except that you hurt other people instead of yourself. Of course, that's precisely why he's expensive. His ultimate feels underwhelming, frankly; I think he's yet another planeswalker whose ultimate will never be seriously played.
And once again, he's white-black. Wizards, please. The only white-black Sorin that makes sense is Lord Of Innistrad, and even then it only fits flavor-wise. This Grim Nemesis could've been pure black and no one will complain, seriously. (ok ok, fine, the "among highest life total" part probably isn't black enough, but really....)
And the Deathcap Hermit is, yes I agree, another rare that shouldn't have been a rare...
Those two things have nothing to do with each other. I don't know what this obsession with land destruction is, but regardless of what Wizards does with mana dorks, counterspells, wraths, burn, rituals, or whatever the complaining flavor of the month is, land destruction is never going to be good again.
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UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Really? Show me a 2 cmc common in relevant past that taps for different colours of mana.
Sure most of these traits are what commons have, but the fact of the matter is he has four different traits. Rarity goes up with complexity, and complexity in this case is the amount of abilities the card has.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
No, the card is just a common and its "slightly" more than that.
It could have been uncommon easily, but they ramped it even to rare, and it shouldnt be.
In the end the card will be just as worthless as a common, but if it sees play (and thats likely as you need some ramp, especially as they dont print any useful ramp creatures at common) , it becomes unnecessary expensive (not too much, but still).
WUBRG#BlackLotusMatterWUBRG
👮👮👮 #BlueLivesMatter 👮👮👮
This is exactly the core problem people have with it, but it is an invalid argument.
People hate 'useless' or trashbin rares, because their money is wasted when they open one.
However that is not the premise that WotC bases their rarity on, even if you and other people don't agree with it.
There are format staple cards that are common or uncommon, but do you ever hear people complain that they should be a rare instead?
It is pure hypocrisy and an emotional response. And to be honost quite frustrating to see people complain in every single spoiler thread about the rarity of a card.
Either accept it, or get a job at WotC and change it yourself.
Give irony and sarcasm, when ignorance and stupidity is found.
The whip is kept for special occasions
Bob actually isn't that "craptastic" either. He's quite good if you have some library manipulation to make sure you always draw the cheapest card with him. No Phyrexian Arena, but if you need a creature, or if you just want 2 cmc instead of 3, or if you're in three-, four, or five-color, Bob is part of the unintentional Goblin Piledriver Arcbound Ravager Dark Confidant Tarmogoyf Stoneforge Mystic Snapcaster Mage "really busted two-drop" cycle for a reason, but I digress.
Anyway, Sorin's ability is pretty cool. I like how black now gets the "Just because there's a cost doesn't mean I have to pay it." trope, e.g. Syphon Mind. Sorin looks fun with Sanguine Bond too. Now, he's no Exquisite Blood in that regard, but still, hitting an opponent for 12 is awesome.
On phasing:
You are misquoting me, I said that the Bob ability is 'craptastic', not Bob himself. Bob is obviously one of the all time best 2 drops in the history of the game, but you are right that you have to build around him. His ability, however, is terrible on any other card that has had it since they are usually too expensive or don't provide a cheap 2 drop beater like Bob. The new Sorin with the Bob draw ability would have been unplayable.
That makes no sense. Playing competitively is no more of an investment than playing with friends in your house for the same reason playing poker at a casino is no more of an investment than playing with your friends. You're paying money to have fun. That's the entire point. And define "competitively." Are you playing in the Pro Tour for big cash prizes? How much money have you won? How much did money did you win before the game magically changed and became more expensive?
More then i spent with
GXTronGX
RWxBurnRWx
What about Duskmantle Seer? He's a Bob for everyone at once.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
You don't see what ramping mana, and preventing ramping mana have to do with each other? Do you understand what light and darkness have to do with each other? Or what left and right have to do with each other? Your probably right that land destruction may never be good again, but pretending that land destruction and ramp have nothing to do with each other is either being willfully ignorant or just not understanding the very basics of the game of Magic.
Was stone rain ever a "fix" for llanowar elves and mana birds of paradise? I think efficient land destruction most preys on decks *without* other sources of mana. And you do know that stone rain was only good when you could drop a mana dork turn one and accelerate into stone rain turn 2, right? And what does complaining about a mana dork being rare have to do with whether you think land destruction should come back or not?
Anyway, this new mana dork is lame as hell. The delirium ability is so unexciting. Deathtouch on a mana dork? Yes, a 2/1 deathtouch for 2 is fine, but not at all worth trying to get delirium for. It's nice that he will ramp you early game and late game may be a more dangerous attacker/blocker, but so was Werebear. I'm against mana dorks being rare but can see why it makes sense in some situations where they do something flashy and exciting, like growing in size and being able add more than 1 mana, or being able to set everyone's life total to the number of creatures they control. A mana dork that conditionally gains deathtouch? No, that's not it.
You sir/madam, are my hero.
Well I disagree that stone rain was only good if you played it on turn 2 as their is no official turn 2 format, but your argument that it hurts non ramp decks much more is a very fair statement, enough for WotC to control its use heavily. I can't say I'm a fan of mana dorks at rare either, but it does put a premium on ramp in limited which I think is a good thing. I hated playing people playing green in limited because it was too easy for them to play bomb after bomb early. But with so many new lands with either good utility or just as creatures in general, 4-5 mana removal for them is a joke. And frankly your argument that they were only good if you played a turn 1 dork supports the idea of bringing back stone rain as it can't be played turn 2 anymore.