I really enjoy the new Jace. His abiiities work without being too wordy and his ultimate is pretty cool.
Yeah, it is nice when at least two of a PW's abilities can be written out on a single line each.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
I'm surprised that Jace is so bland for a set with so many flavor homeruns. His abilities do not come together at all like a well designed planeswalker's would - see Ajani Vengeant for example, his ultimate aligns with his other ability that can lock down a single land. Or original Garruk's Overrun synergizing with the beast tokens he createes. This Jace has no synergy and no overall theme. Just draw, bounce, Erayo-counter.
They could have easily tweaked the bounce effect to make him seem more like an investigator/detector. Change his minus to "Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that player is an opponent, he/she reveals his/her hand.
That would be such a small strategic benefit that they wouldn't have to tweak any of his numbers after making the adjustment. But it would give him more character and identity separate from his previous forms.
Mini Serum Visions mid to late game to help stop unwanted land draws and bouncing late game threats seems pretty great to me. Ultimate is icing on the cake.
So the entirety of Theros and Khans blocks didn't happen? What about Alara or Scars of Mirrodin? Innistrad 1? None of the sets in those blocks involved Jace at all. Battle for Zendikar can also be considered since he only appeared in art and text, he didn't have an actual card in either set.
Theros was a bad dream, nothing else. Story was absolutely awful, characters were all over the place and the set was horrible. Could you imagine that set with Gideon as the main protagonist instead?
Khans was very refreshing. That is a given.
However almost all core sets had a Jace.
All returns have a Jace.
We had 3 standard blocks before with multiple Jaces and now a fourth. Can we stop having Jaces?
Tamiyo was a fun change, Kiora was a fun change, Ashiok was a fun change. We know almost nothing about 2 of them.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Don't think people understand how good a Scry 1 + draw each turn truly is. And at 5 loyalty, he's going to be rather hard to kill with anything but some kind of planeswalkerkillspell.
Please everyone keep saying how bad he is so I can pick up a playset cheap.
Love the new Jace, who doesn't want draw advantage? His ultimate is great too, saves me counterspells lol. I also had a lot of hope for the new Olivia, the art is not nearly as amazing as I think it could have been and the name is just lulzy.
lol that name for Olivia. I think the art had it covered, I think even just 'angry olivia' or 'Olivia infuriated' would have been better. I guess her partying days are behind her for now. madness vampires is going to be quite the deck if they just keep making cards that go right into it.
Olivia, ready to help you infer SOI plot details
onto jace. really wished they would have just taken that amazing box art and swapped it with this one. same general look on his face 'im investigating!' but man I don't care much for that art. functionally, I'll have to play with this one a bit before I say one thing or the other. I don't see how it could ever eclipse JVP especially with madness on the horizon, but maybe it will get its time in the sun. i do think it would be pretty funny to just bounce your own reflector mages to troll your opponents.
I don't think I would play this jace over architect of thought in EDH. also, unpopular opinion here but the best jace art is the DD:JVV art. jace looks like Marilyn manson! that is too funny and easily beats all the other brooding looking jace arts out there.
With five loyalty to start with? And bouncing dudes? And a GG ultimate? Seems pretty good to me.
Let's just be clear about one thing: planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive magic. Ever.
The ults are just flavour text to give you a mental image of what kind of crazy powers this person has. But those abilities aren't there to be used in serious games.
(obvious exceptions are small instant ultimates like gideon emblem or whatever)
Never easy to evaluate these things without seeing the meta, but that jace seems pretty bad.
Ugin's insight does the same thing 3 turns faster, and sees no play.
I mean, mayyyybe bouncing creatures turns out to be just insane this season, but as has been pointed out, Ob Nixilis Reignited is more or less the same/better, and sees very little play, and usually only as a singleton.
As a sidenote - the design is amazingly boring.
Ugin's Insight doesn't even remotely do the same thing. It can't be used as a tempo/removal spell. Nor does it stick around to do it later as well. Ob Nixilis Reignited is pretty much the B version of this card. Earlier in the thread I posted and mentioned Jace is better for CA, while Nixilis is better for removal, but they in essence do the same thing for the same cost in the same types of decks. Ugin's Insight needs Hedron Archive, Silkwrap, Stasis Snare, etc to get full mileage out of it.
Let's just be clear about one thing: planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive magic. Ever.
then you have forgotten about Elspeth, Sun's Champion, Jace, The Mind Sculptor, Koth of The Hammer. and a Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas. All have Ultimate in Competitive Magic
You know, I was thinking to myself the other day with Falkenrath Gorger, if they could do a vampire legend for a BR Madness Commander deck, but I figured it'd probably be hard to combine those themes into a reasonabley good Commander. While she's not especially Vampire oriented, this seems like a great way to attempt the idea!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
They didn't care that he was the savior of Fort Keff, the great hunter of Ondu, the champion of Kabira. To them, he was just another piece of flesh, a thing with life to be drained away.
"Olivia, MOBILIZED FOR WAR?" that's kind of a dumb name. Something simple like Olivia, Vengeful would've been better.
They should've reprinted an old Jace with new art. They are starting to blend together.
I'm surprised that Jace is so bland for a set with so many flavor homeruns. His abilities do not come together at all like a well designed planeswalker's would - see Ajani Vengeant for example, his ultimate aligns with his other ability that can lock down a single land. Or original Garruk's Overrun synergizing with the beast tokens he createes. This Jace has no synergy and no overall theme. Just draw, bounce, Erayo-counter.
They could have easily tweaked the bounce effect to make him seem more like an investigator/detector. Change his minus to "Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that player is an opponent, he/she reveals his/her hand.
That would be such a small strategic benefit that they wouldn't have to tweak any of his numbers after making the adjustment. But it would give him more character and identity separate from his previous forms.
I dunno, I think your tweak would be overly obtuse. There is something to say for simplicity every now and again.
Let's just be clear about one thing: planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive magic. Ever.
The ults are just flavour text to give you a mental image of what kind of crazy powers this person has. But those abilities aren't there to be used in serious games.
(obvious exceptions are small instant ultimates like gideon emblem or whatever)
Elspeth would like a word. Also, Ugin and Gideon (but he can ult as soon as he hits the board, so that's kind of an exception).
Or are you just saying that planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive Magic because the opponent scoops before they have a chance to?
I've also seen people ultimate Jace on several occasions at competitive tournaments.
And although I don't consider myself a competitive player by and large, I've been to several competitive events (PTQs, PPTQs, GPTs, GPs, etc), where I won games by ult'ing Kiora/Narset/Elspeth/Ugin. In fact, Kiora was only really playable in a control shell for her ultimate (and her +1 was great for locking down the opponent's biggest threat).
And if control decks make a resurgence, you'd better believe that games will be won by Jace's ultimate. Control decks running him will only use his -2 in desperate situations (if they can't draw removal with his amazing +1)
Another ******* jace?! Seriously, I'm so tired of seeing jace, every set has to have a jace. They need to kill jace off!! Ug, ruins the set for me. I really haven't enjoyed the direction wizards of the jace is taking magic.
Resent sets have had 80% of their value in like 2 mythics. Or in origins,90% in jace.
Wotj, we hear u like jace so we r going to put jace in ur jace served with a side of jace, served by jace with Jace for dessert. Don't forget ur jace leftovers.
Yeah, it is nice when at least two of a PW's abilities can be written out on a single line each.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
For 1 reason if you have Oath of Gideon on the field just 3 turns to do the super ability which is a instant win
Remember we thought the new Ulamog was just ehh, but a Few modern plays latter gone from 10$ to 30$
I think the mana cost of jace and the first 2 abilitys is what prevents him from being as valuable as mind sculpt and Origins jace
They could have easily tweaked the bounce effect to make him seem more like an investigator/detector. Change his minus to "Return target creature to its owner's hand. If that player is an opponent, he/she reveals his/her hand.
That would be such a small strategic benefit that they wouldn't have to tweak any of his numbers after making the adjustment. But it would give him more character and identity separate from his previous forms.
(Also known as Xenphire)
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
Khans was very refreshing. That is a given.
However almost all core sets had a Jace.
All returns have a Jace.
We had 3 standard blocks before with multiple Jaces and now a fourth. Can we stop having Jaces?
Tamiyo was a fun change, Kiora was a fun change, Ashiok was a fun change. We know almost nothing about 2 of them.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
I was really expecting more Innistrad flavor in his abilities.
That said, he's pretty good.
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Please everyone keep saying how bad he is so I can pick up a playset cheap.
Olivia, ready to help you infer SOI plot details
onto jace. really wished they would have just taken that amazing box art and swapped it with this one. same general look on his face 'im investigating!' but man I don't care much for that art. functionally, I'll have to play with this one a bit before I say one thing or the other. I don't see how it could ever eclipse JVP especially with madness on the horizon, but maybe it will get its time in the sun. i do think it would be pretty funny to just bounce your own reflector mages to troll your opponents.
I don't think I would play this jace over architect of thought in EDH. also, unpopular opinion here but the best jace art is the DD:JVV art. jace looks like Marilyn manson! that is too funny and easily beats all the other brooding looking jace arts out there.
Let's just be clear about one thing: planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive magic. Ever.
The ults are just flavour text to give you a mental image of what kind of crazy powers this person has. But those abilities aren't there to be used in serious games.
(obvious exceptions are small instant ultimates like gideon emblem or whatever)
Ugin's Insight doesn't even remotely do the same thing. It can't be used as a tempo/removal spell. Nor does it stick around to do it later as well. Ob Nixilis Reignited is pretty much the B version of this card. Earlier in the thread I posted and mentioned Jace is better for CA, while Nixilis is better for removal, but they in essence do the same thing for the same cost in the same types of decks. Ugin's Insight needs Hedron Archive, Silkwrap, Stasis Snare, etc to get full mileage out of it.
Also what's up with that art? Looks like she got copy and pasted into a background D:
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
But the people behind the barrier knew.
Jace is fine, card is fine, art is fine.
They should've reprinted an old Jace with new art. They are starting to blend together.
BWModern Black/White Control
WGBOGGLES
Draft My Innistrad Cube!
I dunno, I think your tweak would be overly obtuse. There is something to say for simplicity every now and again.
RETIRED - GAME SUCKS
Modern:
UUUMerfolksUUU
RGoblinsR
Ad Nauseam
BR 8 Racks RB
WUB Mill BUW
Legacy:
XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Elspeth would like a word. Also, Ugin and Gideon (but he can ult as soon as he hits the board, so that's kind of an exception).
Or are you just saying that planeswalkers don't ultimate in competitive Magic because the opponent scoops before they have a chance to?
I've also seen people ultimate Jace on several occasions at competitive tournaments.
And although I don't consider myself a competitive player by and large, I've been to several competitive events (PTQs, PPTQs, GPTs, GPs, etc), where I won games by ult'ing Kiora/Narset/Elspeth/Ugin. In fact, Kiora was only really playable in a control shell for her ultimate (and her +1 was great for locking down the opponent's biggest threat).
And if control decks make a resurgence, you'd better believe that games will be won by Jace's ultimate. Control decks running him will only use his -2 in desperate situations (if they can't draw removal with his amazing +1)
Resent sets have had 80% of their value in like 2 mythics. Or in origins,90% in jace.
Wotj, we hear u like jace so we r going to put jace in ur jace served with a side of jace, served by jace with Jace for dessert. Don't forget ur jace leftovers.
The first 2 ability's are very identical to Jace, the Mind Sculptor
This just is +1 less than mind sculptor first ability
The second cost -1 more than the mind sculptor 3rd ability
And he's e biggest mistake you guys made
Both are instant win supers
mind sculptor takes 5 turns to do the super
The new Jace takes 3 turns 2 less than mindsculpt and 3 less if you throw in oath of gideon faster is better.
Five mana might be a lot, but so is 5 starting loyalty. Scry + draw is also incredibly strong.
We'll have to see if five mana is to much for control. Then again, Keranos saw play.
Also, i never was a fan of Jace's attire. But man, that guy rocks his Innistradi coat.
“I once had an entire race killed just to listen to the rattling of their dried bones as I waded through them.”
—Volrath