This is a pretty relevant change in design philosophy, that red now can get a 1 mana 2/1 with no downside. I wonder if it is related to the fact that "we are entering an era of experimentation on how to move the suite of burn spells around such that there is a lot of choice while ensuring you can't just put them all in a deck and end up with a Modern burn deck." [source]
I'm a little skeptical of this card. Sure, it's quite powerful and will very likely see standard play. But, it's quite fragile for an ability you want to have stick around for a while, and takes more than a little setup for the ability to really do anything. Granted, it's damn good when you do get the setup.
Basically, I just think the hype is a little much.
hey i am the only one that does want to play this little guy with Bloodlord of Vaasgoth?
(+3/+3 for each Vampire i play)
Interesting combo, but a little strained on the curve. Stromkirk Captain fits right in.
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MTGS Wikia Article about "New World Order"
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
PSA to everyone who keeps forgetting about the Reserved List:
You're on a website dedicated to talking about MtG. You're only a few keystrokes away from finding out what cards are on the Reserved List. You're also only a few keystrokes away from finding out why some cards on the Reserved List got foil printings in FtV, as Judge promos, or whatnot, as well as why that won't happen again. Stop doing this.
Hey I am newish to magic and this is my first exposure to the madness mechanic. I don't get why this particular card is good. I thought that the strength of magdness lied in the fact that you could pay a lower mana cost in exchange for figuring out a way to discard it. Can someone please explain this card to me
Hey I am newish to magic and this is my first exposure to the madness mechanic. I don't get why this particular card is good. I thought that the strength of magdness lied in the fact that you could pay a lower mana cost in exchange for figuring out a way to discard it. Can someone please explain this card to me
He's agressive, so best plays with other cheap vampire spells.
Cards that require "discard a card" to pay costs or activate abilities now have no card advantage downside.
Example: Heir of Falkenrath transformed is potentially a 3/2 flying for 2 mana, which is very powerful. The downside is you have to discard a card - but with madness you can just play a creature for some mana instead.
It also allows you to possibly play vampires at instant speed during your opponents turn, so those vampires played that way can avoid sorcery speed removal and be able to attack on your following turn.
Hey I am newish to magic and this is my first exposure to the madness mechanic. I don't get why this particular card is good. I thought that the strength of magdness lied in the fact that you could pay a lower mana cost in exchange for figuring out a way to discard it. Can someone please explain this card to me
Sure. Not all vampires will have madness tagged onto them. Some of them will get a discard ability that does things (like a buff, etc). Discard is usually viewed as card disadvantage. Madness allows you you to turn that disadvantage into card advantage. As you see more and more spoilers, you'll find alot of synergistic cards that have to do with looting (draw, then discard), rummaging (discard, then draw). This is where madness shines.
Innistrad is an abnormal block such that the first block wants you to appreciate death (morbid), self-mill, etc. This block is the same, except that they focus more on self-discard.
This guy encourages aggro. You won't normally see a 4 or 5 drop creature together with the glutton (not counting madness), so their madness cost (equal to their converted cost) is usually cheap. Surely an aggro deck can afford 1 or 2 mana.
This thing is a beast. I`m looking at RDW/Atarka for this. First of all, it`s a 2/1 for 1 without any drawbacks in red, which nicely fills out Zurgo Bellstriker for 2/x one drops. If red gets just one more good aggressive vampire at one or two mana that`s good enough to play four, that alone could be enough enablers for Lightning Axe together with Fiery Temper.
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When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Hey I am newish to magic and this is my first exposure to the madness mechanic. I don't get why this particular card is good. I thought that the strength of magdness lied in the fact that you could pay a lower mana cost in exchange for figuring out a way to discard it. Can someone please explain this card to me
Sure. Not all vampires will have madness tagged onto them. Some of them will get a discard ability that does things (like a buff, etc). Discard is usually viewed as card disadvantage. Madness allows you you to turn that disadvantage into card advantage. As you see more and more spoilers, you'll find alot of synergistic cards that have to do with looting (draw, then discard), rummaging (discard, then draw). This is where madness shines.
Innistrad is an abnormal block such that the first block wants you to appreciate death (morbid), self-mill, etc. This block is the same, except that they focus more on self-discard.
This guy encourages aggro. You won't normally see a 4 or 5 drop creature together with the glutton (not counting madness), so their madness cost (equal to their converted cost) is usually cheap. Surely an aggro deck can afford 1 or 2 mana.
It's not so much card advantage but mana efficiency.
Thats already 26 - 28 cards. Add roughly 22 lands and you got 10 - 12 more slots to fill.
The deck is missing something like Stromkirk Captain to round it out.
When I first saw this my thought was that maybe it would help weaken early discard in modern, but then remembered that the player who played it would be tapped out, so there'd be no way to take advantage of the madness effect when someone plays inquisition of Kozilek or Thoughtseize. Still, if used as part of someones own game plan it could work fine.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Now if only the Vampire HoundsSkyshroud Vampirediscard mechanic or Mind Maggots came back into standard we'd have the repeatable instant discard engine to seriously put on the gas. ..
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Dance, and bring forth the coil! It is an umbilical to Gaea herself, fattening us with the earth's rich bounty. Decks Played: GBWJunk ReanimatorGBW GBRHydraGen BombGBR UGWMaze's EndUGW
Eternal Formats: GCurio ElvesG GBWMelira PodGBW RWKnights of the RoundRW
I'm feeling really tempted to try this in a deck made mostly of one-drops just to see if I can turn Burning Inquiry into an Ancestral Recall for Vampires.
Very surprised this card doesn't have a downside. Instant cube staple because red is lacking in one drops and quality one drops there even if his ability isn't relevant often
I think it's funny when every time a 2/1 for 1 with upsides is revealed everyone goes nuts saying "wow, a 2/1 for 1 is already good by itself" then said 2/1 is put on a binder and never leaves it because it's not good enough.
sure it might reduce the amount of card disadvantage got from other cards, it also could give pseudo flash to vampires with an upside...
this will see a lot of play if we have a lot of playable vampires with discarding as a drawback....
we already have 2 of those in Elusive Tormentor and Heir of Falkenrath maybe a couple of others like Markov Dreadknight even if I don't really think this one is powerful enough for constructed.
I don't really see this little dude as being super necessary for the deck, time will tell, but I'm not pumped yet, even if it's a pretty interesting magic card.
It's so weird that I have absolutely no idea if it's a binder card or a format defining one... haha
right now I think it's more likely to be a binder one.
a one drop with 2 power for red aggro is already considered good. the upside is just a bonus should vampire tribal be a thing in SOI.
that said, the reason why i am excited about the card in RDW but not as much in the speculated R/B Vampires is that i want to see how the mana bases would look like post rotation. turn 3 Drana may be difficult due to BB, but not Incorrigible Youths.
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(+3/+3 for each Vampire i play)
if i can get damage to the player in my upkeep i can use Braid of Fire as mana source for the madness cost.
Well, where is the downside on Monastery Swiftspear? Good Red 1-Drops do not seem to need downsides nowadays.
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Basically, I just think the hype is a little much.
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Seems like the deck will need an element of card draw to keep burning.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Interesting combo, but a little strained on the curve. Stromkirk Captain fits right in.
Every time I read a comment about "Well if this card had card draw/trample/haste/indestructible/hexproof/life gain...", I think "You're missing the point." They're armchair developer comments that fail to take into account the card's role in the greater Limited and Standard environment. No, it may not be as good as whatever card you're comparing it to. There's a reason for that. Not every burn spell is Lightning Bolt, nor does it need to be or should be.
He's agressive, so best plays with other cheap vampire spells.
Cards that require "discard a card" to pay costs or activate abilities now have no card advantage downside.
Example: Heir of Falkenrath transformed is potentially a 3/2 flying for 2 mana, which is very powerful. The downside is you have to discard a card - but with madness you can just play a creature for some mana instead.
It also allows you to possibly play vampires at instant speed during your opponents turn, so those vampires played that way can avoid sorcery speed removal and be able to attack on your following turn.
Some cards use discarding as a cost. Now you can gain that cards benefit while losing nothing.
Someone mentioned Zombie Infestation as a good example.
Will see play in mono red, and it's not hard to imagine some vampire madness deck featuring him.
Innistrad is an abnormal block such that the first block wants you to appreciate death (morbid), self-mill, etc. This block is the same, except that they focus more on self-discard.
This guy encourages aggro. You won't normally see a 4 or 5 drop creature together with the glutton (not counting madness), so their madness cost (equal to their converted cost) is usually cheap. Surely an aggro deck can afford 1 or 2 mana.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It's not so much card advantage but mana efficiency.
Standard
W.I.P.
EDH
WNorn Tokens
Drana, Kalitas and Kolaghan are good options
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Dance, and bring forth the coil! It is an umbilical to Gaea herself, fattening us with the earth's rich bounty.
Decks Played:
GBWJunk ReanimatorGBW
GBRHydraGen BombGBR
UGWMaze's EndUGW
Eternal Formats:
GCurio ElvesG
GBWMelira PodGBW
RWKnights of the RoundRW
You mean Dark Withering?
( 0.0 )
=O ((U/R)) O=
(")(")
I'm an AI making Magic cards.
http://www.staalmedia.nl/nexus/#generate
Savannah Lions was awesome in 1994 because creatures sucked...
nowadays, Kytheon, Hero of Akros is not powerful enough, neither will this.
sure it might reduce the amount of card disadvantage got from other cards, it also could give pseudo flash to vampires with an upside...
this will see a lot of play if we have a lot of playable vampires with discarding as a drawback....
we already have 2 of those in Elusive Tormentor and Heir of Falkenrath maybe a couple of others like Markov Dreadknight even if I don't really think this one is powerful enough for constructed.
I don't really see this little dude as being super necessary for the deck, time will tell, but I'm not pumped yet, even if it's a pretty interesting magic card.
It's so weird that I have absolutely no idea if it's a binder card or a format defining one... haha
right now I think it's more likely to be a binder one.
that said, the reason why i am excited about the card in RDW but not as much in the speculated R/B Vampires is that i want to see how the mana bases would look like post rotation. turn 3 Drana may be difficult due to BB, but not Incorrigible Youths.