The fact that you don't even get to keep the creature or artifact that you tutor up is just...really Wizards? I don't think it would be too much to not unsummon it.
You are really undervaluing that ability. It's a full deck search Sneak Attack. As a whole, it's quite powerful, actually. In standard, it allows you to loot for profit with Madness, Fiery Temper, her loyalty is even high enough that she probably won't die to combat damage on a clean board the turn she comes down, in standard. The -2 is also quite powerful even with the tapped clause (how many creatures don't attack when able, your only going to miss a hasty threat) and the ultimate, well, as I said above. It will end games 2 turns after she hits. Newlamog will still be standard legal, and you have TONS of threats in other formats. I agree with the guy below, undervalue he power so I can get one cheap. Also, for Standard, you cannot forget about the Oath cycles. Oath of Gideon pushes her in such an aggressive direction for standard that it could be borderline broken in the format. Could Naya Superfriends be a thing with so many 'walkers producing tokens and then Nahiri popping off for cleanup duty. There is currently not a great answer for PW's in standard.
its a planeswalker ultimate that needs you to stick a 4 CMC walker for 3 turns before she goes off. I don't think its undervaluing it to say its not good if its anything short of winning you the game. Most walkers with similar exorbitant requirements just have fancy versions of win-moar, like pooping 20 power of flying dragons onto the board or nuking the opponents library or whatever. In modern at least, the sneak attack can win the game on the spot, but she's too underpowered otherwise. Even then, its disruptable. In standard, what do we have, eldrazi that don't trigger their cast clauses? Even a newlamog won't win the game unless your opponent has less than 10 life or 20 library, and you sure won't be recasting him.
Now I agree that if Nahiri has a place, it will owe a lot to the superfriends support pushed by the oath cycle and everything else in standard, but that might be with her as a fairly unimpressive addition to the deck. Without that much support, she'd just underwhelm and see no play. Even if emrakul is printed and a sneak attack deck forms in standard, this is hardly a reliable way to go off
Ugh, why are people so bent on having mana open for her loot ability to be good? It's a freaking loot effect, that adds 2 loyalty, that is a "may" effect to still get the loyalty boost but retaining your gas. And stop comparing to Flip jace. He is going to lose a TON of steam once fetches rotate, which is when Nahiri becomes legal. This card has none of the weakness that he does either, and can protect herself way better. Obviously it's based on the environment they are both played in. The biggest difference is in 2 turn cyles with Jace is you have possibly have a GY full enough to flip him then flashback "something", possibly useful, possibly not. Nahiri on the other hand, after 2 turn cycles, you will probably end the game with whatever you tutor up, and if you can't, you're playing her wrong.
EDIT: Nevermind. LSV announced a new Sorin and Arlinn. If I were to wage my bets, I would bet that Arlinn is a creature that flips into a planeswalker, and Jace is in the set.
Assuming you don't outright win.. you could just +2 Nahiri and toss Emerukal and repeat
So you're going to activate her +2 three times before you even pop her ultimate, and then plan to activate her the turn after that? Planeswalkers do not have that kind of staying power.
Ugh, why are people so bent on having mana open for her loot ability to be good? It's a freaking loot effect, that adds 2 loyalty, that is a "may" effect to still get the loyalty boost but retaining your gas. And stop comparing to Flip jace. He is going to lose a TON of steam once fetches rotate, which is when Nahiri becomes legal. This card has none of the weakness that he does either, and can protect herself way better. Obviously it's based on the environment they are both played in. The biggest difference is in 2 turn cyles with Jace is you have possibly have a GY full enough to flip him then flashback "something", possibly useful, possibly not. Nahiri on the other hand, after 2 turn cycles, you will probably end the game with whatever you tutor up, and if you can't, you're playing her wrong.
It's a bad loot effect. And the formats Jace will continue to see play in after he rotates are going to laugh at Nahiri.
Five or six core set walkers need a new home, so I would be surprised to see blocks having. Higher count from now on
Core sets, on average, had majority reprints and only a couple new cards. Compare this to the extra block we get each year, which will have 5 guaranteed new 'walkers.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
I really think that blocks will now regularly have 6 or 7 planeswalkers. With core set gone, the 5 or 6 it would have had need to go somewhere else, so b it looks like each set gets an extra walker or two. I think tamiyo and jace still both get in the block. If not, hopefully just tamiyo
Hmmmmmmm, I don't pretend to be the best card evaluater alive but she seems to be deceptively strong???? Having a +2 does help a lot giving her 6 loyalty to survive the turn she comes down.... But will the +2 be good? Guess that's entirely up to how good the madness cards are in this set and if Madness returns in E. Moon....? Her -2 is also weird tapped creatures/artifacts? Situational, but I guess it works if you play her after an attack? But the artifact will probably hit less frequently, especially if she sees play, then everyone will activate artifacts abilities at the end of turn... Now to her ultimate, the creature will need hex proof or indestructable.... Or your risk it being killed....
She seems to be tailored for specific cards, now I'm interested in the madness cards and whatever bomb creature they spoil..... Is she good??? Idk, seems like she is only as good as what you have in the deck that supports it....
Flavor fail. I see artifact on here once, and it's not even in a place where it will likely matter except rarely. I thought Nahiri was like a super artifact queen, sculpting swords and hedrons with her mind and all... now she... loots.... badly.
Assuming you don't outright win.. you could just +2 Nahiri and toss Emerukal and repeat
So you're going to activate her +2 three times before you even pop her ultimate, and then plan to activate her the turn after that? Planeswalkers do not have that kind of staying power.
Ugh, why are people so bent on having mana open for her loot ability to be good? It's a freaking loot effect, that adds 2 loyalty, that is a "may" effect to still get the loyalty boost but retaining your gas. And stop comparing to Flip jace. He is going to lose a TON of steam once fetches rotate, which is when Nahiri becomes legal. This card has none of the weakness that he does either, and can protect herself way better. Obviously it's based on the environment they are both played in. The biggest difference is in 2 turn cyles with Jace is you have possibly have a GY full enough to flip him then flashback "something", possibly useful, possibly not. Nahiri on the other hand, after 2 turn cycles, you will probably end the game with whatever you tutor up, and if you can't, you're playing her wrong.
It's a bad loot effect. And the formats Jace will continue to see play in after he rotates are going to laugh at Nahiri.
Wrong. It's half a Faithless Looting. Which is fine. Not every card can be a 2 mana $90 mistake.
She can harbinge (not a word, I know) all she wants, but Avacyn lost her mind to black magic and RW Nahiri seems to possess none of that subtlety. Which begs the question who is the other baddie?
Inducing Madness is a R thing Also, Avacyn and Nahiri are both RW
After Emerukal nuked the board? I think Nahiri would have adequate protection and if she doesn't and the opponent survived said attack then you have more pressing concerns than card filtering and recursion.
Just keep spamming +2 into live cards, Madness enabling is great and all but cycling dead cards is solid when you get to do it repeatedly. Getting to see more cards per turn tends to help a lot in winning games.
Her -2 is what cements her role as more of a post-board gamechanger card: she's your contingency plan against their sideboard plan, who then goes on to turbocharge any aggression-oriented gameplan of yours, all the way up to cheating things out for value whether it be big fatties (which oftentimes have this particular line of text that causes them to get shuffled back into the library if they'd hit the graveyard to nerf reanimation, which means +2 that junk away for future ults) or ETB/LTB dudes (think Ranger of Eos / Reveillark).
-8 is a plan B that, unlike the usual approach regarding ultimates, I think is both easy to hit (2 turns of +2) and threatens really disgusting stuff (a fast enough Emrakul might as well be a onesided boardwipe. Also 15 damage is a lot.) But mostly I think you want her as a post-board answer to sideboard tech that then helps you dig into the good relevant stuff to close the game.
I think the best thing she has going for her is the amount of loyalty she gets upon entering the battlefield and using her +2 ability. Her -2 makes her look a little bit better than she would be otherwise, but at 4CMC... don't know. Maybe because we are in a madness set she will see play, but I'm not holding my breath. Very weird ultimate as well, a very weak one. But at least she gets there very quickly.
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New Nahiri is obviously a reference to Harbinger Down which is a homage to The Thing which is a nod to Dark Depths.
Marit Lage confirmed.
Ofcourse it could be something new
its a planeswalker ultimate that needs you to stick a 4 CMC walker for 3 turns before she goes off. I don't think its undervaluing it to say its not good if its anything short of winning you the game. Most walkers with similar exorbitant requirements just have fancy versions of win-moar, like pooping 20 power of flying dragons onto the board or nuking the opponents library or whatever. In modern at least, the sneak attack can win the game on the spot, but she's too underpowered otherwise. Even then, its disruptable. In standard, what do we have, eldrazi that don't trigger their cast clauses? Even a newlamog won't win the game unless your opponent has less than 10 life or 20 library, and you sure won't be recasting him.
Now I agree that if Nahiri has a place, it will owe a lot to the superfriends support pushed by the oath cycle and everything else in standard, but that might be with her as a fairly unimpressive addition to the deck. Without that much support, she'd just underwhelm and see no play. Even if emrakul is printed and a sneak attack deck forms in standard, this is hardly a reliable way to go off
No, The Thing is a nod to...The Thing with a touch of At The Mountains of Madness.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
EDIT: Nevermind. LSV announced a new Sorin and Arlinn. If I were to wage my bets, I would bet that Arlinn is a creature that flips into a planeswalker, and Jace is in the set.
The last set? 😒
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
So you're going to activate her +2 three times before you even pop her ultimate, and then plan to activate her the turn after that? Planeswalkers do not have that kind of staying power.
It's a bad loot effect. And the formats Jace will continue to see play in after he rotates are going to laugh at Nahiri.
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
Yeah, maybe tell us next time? Or better yet, tell us what the new Arlinn/Jace/Sorin will be?
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Core sets, on average, had majority reprints and only a couple new cards. Compare this to the extra block we get each year, which will have 5 guaranteed new 'walkers.
I'm officially proposing we retire the word "insane" from the MtG vocabulary.
"The best way to be different is to be better" - Gene Muir
Cubes:
Modern Banlist Cube
Monocolor Budget Cube
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
She seems to be tailored for specific cards, now I'm interested in the madness cards and whatever bomb creature they spoil..... Is she good??? Idk, seems like she is only as good as what you have in the deck that supports it....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sqz5dbs5zmo
Great job Wizards!
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Touche. I had not thought about it like that.
Its a nod to the original not this one not this one , this
Her -2 is what cements her role as more of a post-board gamechanger card: she's your contingency plan against their sideboard plan, who then goes on to turbocharge any aggression-oriented gameplan of yours, all the way up to cheating things out for value whether it be big fatties (which oftentimes have this particular line of text that causes them to get shuffled back into the library if they'd hit the graveyard to nerf reanimation, which means +2 that junk away for future ults) or ETB/LTB dudes (think Ranger of Eos / Reveillark).
-8 is a plan B that, unlike the usual approach regarding ultimates, I think is both easy to hit (2 turns of +2) and threatens really disgusting stuff (a fast enough Emrakul might as well be a onesided boardwipe. Also 15 damage is a lot.) But mostly I think you want her as a post-board answer to sideboard tech that then helps you dig into the good relevant stuff to close the game.
I think the best thing she has going for her is the amount of loyalty she gets upon entering the battlefield and using her +2 ability. Her -2 makes her look a little bit better than she would be otherwise, but at 4CMC... don't know. Maybe because we are in a madness set she will see play, but I'm not holding my breath. Very weird ultimate as well, a very weak one. But at least she gets there very quickly.
Read my other stories as well (some ongoing):
Reaper King (a horror story), Kaalia of the Vast (an origin story), Sequels for Innistrad (Alternative sequels for Inn), Grey Areas (Odric's fanfic), Royal Succession (goblins),The Tracker's Message (eldrazi on Innistrad) and Ugin and his Eye (the end of OGW).