Just realized Nahiri's non-bo with Batterskull. Somehow, I feel like that won't matter *too* much.
Yes a no. You still get to keep the Batterskull in play, so that's a plus. If you can equip it to something like a Snapcaster the same turn, it's a good play.
I guess she's playable in standard as a planeswalker assassinate at worst, but I'm not seeing it in modern. EDH should be fine since its slow and artifact/enchantment heavy
I could see it in modern IF* a "big red" type of deck becomes viable. Being able to turn 6 consistently Emerkaul seems good, albit a little slow for modern.
I'm on the same boat that Arlin Kord will be a double-faced card with a creature on front and planeswalker on back, thus she won't count towards the 5 planeswalker rule. As for why the Origins Five count as walkers while she doesn't, my guess is that she will be a little harder to flip.
I'm not all that convinced. The worse-looting clause is something you'd want to be doing from a 2-drop like tibalt or babyjace, not from a 4-drop with 2 colors. Since her ultimate is prohibitively costed and not very close to an autowin clause (in standard), that means shes almost entirely dependent on her -2. And for 4 cmc, its not stacking up well against other removal. You might zap one creature, but then you're dependent on the disenchant side since if the enemy is tapping out their creatures, your 2 toughness nahiri is dead anyway, and if they aren't, all you can do is red-loot. I think just having "Discard a card then draw a card" to reward hellbent would have made this a lot more attractive so it could actually reliably produce CA
playability is there perhaps, but not busted
It's obvious her + ability is meant to be played with madness cards and we've already seen a few good ones. If they give her 2 more decent in color madness csrds, you'll be eating your words.
the good rule of deckmaking is that if your cards need other cards to enable them just to do what you could have done as efficiently with non-combo cards, they're bad.
Madness is good when both the madness enablers and the madness cards themselves are efficient and playable. A baby-jace is a house in a vacuum as has been proven the last year. He doesn't need madness cards to be good. But he enables them far, far more efficiently than this. This a 4-drop that won't be able to cast a madness card until turn 5, in bad colors, after surviving any damage or removal thrown her way. Other cards in this very set already spoiled enable madness far more efficiently.
Just because madness exists in SoI doesn't mean we can expect a 4-drop to fill the role of a 2-drop as if the value of looting has somehow quadrupled (mana::value tends to be loosely quadratic, not linear). For Nahiri to be a playable card, she must derive her value from that -2 ability. She has to produce CA from exiling at least two cards in her lifetime or you might as well just run something like neo-vindicate over there. If she gets 1 creature and starts looting, she's being at least mediocre, maybe playable, but far from a busted walker. Now, could that -2 be good enough to make her see decent play? I don't pretend to know. Its not that great removal, but it is at least some form of protecting herself and utility, a good sign for a walker seeing play.
Just realized Nahiri's non-bo with Batterskull. Somehow, I feel like that won't matter *too* much.
Yes a no. You still get to keep the Batterskull in play, so that's a plus. If you can equip it to something like a Snapcaster the same turn, it's a good play.
It is a non-bo: Nahiri's ability searches for the artifact or creature and marks it as returning to hand. Batterskull is the artifact in question, not a creature. It will have the reminder of return to hand, not the Germ token.
Just realized Nahiri's non-bo with Batterskull. Somehow, I feel like that won't matter *too* much.
Yes a no. You still get to keep the Batterskull in play, so that's a plus. If you can equip it to something like a Snapcaster the same turn, it's a good play.
How do you figure?
Fetching Batterskull wither her seems horrible. You fetch an artifact and put it into play. Batterskull gains haste(not the germ token), and it gets returned to your hand, killing the germ token.
In limited, she's a build around me bomb, with madness and killing.
In standard, a lot will depend on what cards she can enable with madness. As long as we have at least 1 card with a 0 madness cost, I think she'll be playable.
Just realized Nahiri's non-bo with Batterskull. Somehow, I feel like that won't matter *too* much.
Yes a no. You still get to keep the Batterskull in play, so that's a plus. If you can equip it to something like a Snapcaster the same turn, it's a good play.
How do you figure?
Fetching Batterskull wither her seems horrible. You fetch an artifact and put it into play. Batterskull gains haste(not the germ token), and it gets returned to your hand, killing the germ token.
In limited, she's a build around me bomb, with madness and killing.
In standard, a lot will depend on what cards she can enable with madness. As long as we have at least 1 card with a 0 madness cost, I think she'll be playable.
Yep, you're right. I was thinking that the ability would bounce the creature token, and not the equipment. Still, you could make use of it in a pinch, but I had a brain fart regardless.
So I guess white turning to red allows a planeswalker to completely change their skillset. (See: Ajani Goldmane, Ajani Vengeant)
At least Sarkhan was consistent with dragons, even when hopping between three different colours to tie to red.
The fact that you don't even get to keep the creature or artifact that you tutor up is just...really Wizards? I don't think it would be too much to not unsummon it.
You are really undervaluing that ability. It's a full deck search Sneak Attack. As a whole, it's quite powerful, actually. In standard, it allows you to loot for profit with Madness, Fiery Temper, her loyalty is even high enough that she probably won't die to combat damage on a clean board the turn she comes down, in standard. The -2 is also quite powerful even with the tapped clause (how many creatures don't attack when able, your only going to miss a hasty threat) and the ultimate, well, as I said above. It will end games 2 turns after she hits. Newlamog will still be standard legal, and you have TONS of threats in other formats. I agree with the guy below, undervalue he power so I can get one cheap. Also, for Standard, you cannot forget about the Oath cycles. Oath of Gideon pushes her in such an aggressive direction for standard that it could be borderline broken in the format. Could Naya Superfriends be a thing with so many 'walkers producing tokens and then Nahiri popping off for cleanup duty. There is currently not a great answer for PW's in standard.
Every time someone says Marit Lage is going to be in this set, God skins a kitten alive.
Stop calling yourself God and stop skinning kittens!
I'm still quite dumbfounded by that ultimate ability. I could see this on a Red-Green card, a Black-Red card, heck even Blue-Red would make some sense. White-Red, though? I guess this is one of those times where flavor trumps the color pie.
She can harbinge (not a word, I know) all she wants, but Avacyn lost her mind to black magic and RW Nahiri seems to possess none of that subtlety. Which begs the question who is the other baddie?
I hate standard with a passion so I don't evaluate cards based on bad formats.
That said, there's other walkers, even similarly costed ones, that do much more powerful things for their ultimates (many more or less just win) without a given drawback to doing so. Nahiri you have to build up, which admittedly may not take as long a some walkers, but you're gaining little for doing so), lose her to your activation and..may not win on the spot.
Sure her -2 is conditional but Gideon Jura saw plenty of play, yes I know it was more for his creature ability but my point stands
She has the check point that playable walkers have, she has an immediate presence and can protect herself
As somone who only plays EDH her -8 is meh. If only it didn't bounce. But at least it doesn't sac either.
Emrakul will have a very powerful cast trigger, and one swing with her will do significant damage. That's what the unsummon is for. Get one really hard swing, pop her back, then get that sweet, sweet cast trigger.
She can harbinge (not a word, I know) all she wants, but Avacyn lost her mind to black magic and RW Nahiri seems to possess none of that subtlety. Which begs the question who is the other baddie?
Inducing Madness is a R thing Also, Avacyn and Nahiri are both RW
Emrakul will have a very powerful cast trigger, and one swing with her will do significant damage. That's what the unsummon is for. Get one really hard swing, pop her back, then get that sweet, sweet cast trigger.
Yeah because people are just casting Emrakul all over the place...
Yes a no. You still get to keep the Batterskull in play, so that's a plus. If you can equip it to something like a Snapcaster the same turn, it's a good play.
Nevermind. I am not a smart man.
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I could see it in modern IF* a "big red" type of deck becomes viable. Being able to turn 6 consistently Emerkaul seems good, albit a little slow for modern.
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the good rule of deckmaking is that if your cards need other cards to enable them just to do what you could have done as efficiently with non-combo cards, they're bad.
Madness is good when both the madness enablers and the madness cards themselves are efficient and playable. A baby-jace is a house in a vacuum as has been proven the last year. He doesn't need madness cards to be good. But he enables them far, far more efficiently than this. This a 4-drop that won't be able to cast a madness card until turn 5, in bad colors, after surviving any damage or removal thrown her way. Other cards in this very set already spoiled enable madness far more efficiently.
Just because madness exists in SoI doesn't mean we can expect a 4-drop to fill the role of a 2-drop as if the value of looting has somehow quadrupled (mana::value tends to be loosely quadratic, not linear). For Nahiri to be a playable card, she must derive her value from that -2 ability. She has to produce CA from exiling at least two cards in her lifetime or you might as well just run something like neo-vindicate over there. If she gets 1 creature and starts looting, she's being at least mediocre, maybe playable, but far from a busted walker. Now, could that -2 be good enough to make her see decent play? I don't pretend to know. Its not that great removal, but it is at least some form of protecting herself and utility, a good sign for a walker seeing play.
It is a non-bo: Nahiri's ability searches for the artifact or creature and marks it as returning to hand. Batterskull is the artifact in question, not a creature. It will have the reminder of return to hand, not the Germ token.
Every time someone says Marit Lage is going to be in this set, God skins a kitten alive.
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How do you figure?
Fetching Batterskull wither her seems horrible. You fetch an artifact and put it into play. Batterskull gains haste(not the germ token), and it gets returned to your hand, killing the germ token.
In limited, she's a build around me bomb, with madness and killing.
In standard, a lot will depend on what cards she can enable with madness. As long as we have at least 1 card with a 0 madness cost, I think she'll be playable.
Good thing god doesn't exist
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Or Emrakul, since I'm now convinced that's her job on Innistrad.
Ajani is showing me the way
Yep, you're right. I was thinking that the ability would bounce the creature token, and not the equipment. Still, you could make use of it in a pinch, but I had a brain fart regardless.
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Fine, some whackjob on the street skins a kitten alive, then dips it in salted lemon juice.
So so sick of hearing about that stupid stupid theory.
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
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At least Sarkhan was consistent with dragons, even when hopping between three different colours to tie to red.
You are really undervaluing that ability. It's a full deck search Sneak Attack. As a whole, it's quite powerful, actually. In standard, it allows you to loot for profit with Madness, Fiery Temper, her loyalty is even high enough that she probably won't die to combat damage on a clean board the turn she comes down, in standard. The -2 is also quite powerful even with the tapped clause (how many creatures don't attack when able, your only going to miss a hasty threat) and the ultimate, well, as I said above. It will end games 2 turns after she hits. Newlamog will still be standard legal, and you have TONS of threats in other formats. I agree with the guy below, undervalue he power so I can get one cheap. Also, for Standard, you cannot forget about the Oath cycles. Oath of Gideon pushes her in such an aggressive direction for standard that it could be borderline broken in the format. Could Naya Superfriends be a thing with so many 'walkers producing tokens and then Nahiri popping off for cleanup duty. There is currently not a great answer for PW's in standard.
I'm still quite dumbfounded by that ultimate ability. I could see this on a Red-Green card, a Black-Red card, heck even Blue-Red would make some sense. White-Red, though? I guess this is one of those times where flavor trumps the color pie.
That said, there's other walkers, even similarly costed ones, that do much more powerful things for their ultimates (many more or less just win) without a given drawback to doing so. Nahiri you have to build up, which admittedly may not take as long a some walkers, but you're gaining little for doing so), lose her to your activation and..may not win on the spot.
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-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
—Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
She has the check point that playable walkers have, she has an immediate presence and can protect herself
As somone who only plays EDH her -8 is meh. If only it didn't bounce. But at least it doesn't sac either.
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Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
Yeah because people are just casting Emrakul all over the place...
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-Retired Decks-
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"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
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I bet we'll see a retcon of "Strring in their Slumber" to justify how she's so mad at Sorin...
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