To all this land destruction talk, which I would like to see more myself, it doesn't belong on a WB card that exiles it. Make me a 3cmc red land destruction card at rare, I don't care, just make one. All modern has is fulminator mage, which is awesome, but has a hefty price tag, especially for a red card. If they can make this new card for WB they can make a 3cmc red land destroyer. Maybe they even put the loss 2-3 life like this card and it wouldn't matter; it would still see a ton of play. And arguments about land destruction being bad because it makes players "unable to play magic" are ludicrous. That's not okay but mana acceleration is!? So Ramp= Good but the answer to ramp, land destruction= Bad!? This is a bad argument and probably the biggest reason 1cmc mana dorks had to go away. You nerf one strategy, and it eventually forces you to nerf its opposite.
Hey bro there's a card that blows up lands in modern it's called Molten Rain. The only difference between it and Fulminator Mage is Molten Rain hits all lands and doesn't come with a 2/2 body, Stone Rain is also legal in modern so yeah, you are kind of missing quite a few cards in modern that blow up lands.
My bad. I missed molten rain, and haven't seen stone rain since I was a kid, so assumed it wasn't legal. But that's what I get for assuming. Doesn't change my stance on making one for standard though. I can't see why a staple red ability should be unplayable outside of a 15 or more year format. Imagine a green land fetch card costing 4 for one land only. That would be balanced with the current land destruction abilities with red
They reason is simple, it is one of the most unfun things yo play against according to players, that is the main reason wizards does not want to see it especially in standard, the format most new players would choose, as if they are just starting go and play at FNM only to have their land destroyed to the point of being unable to play, that player may decide this game is not for them. They want to have new players embrace they game, for them to have fun even while losing, them being unable to play is not a way for that to happen. That is just how it is, and thus why efficient land destruction tends to not be seen in standard sets anymore. Is it fair, perhaps, perhaps not. But it is Wizards game to make as they see fit.
I guess is it simple. It's "fun" to have someone drop Karn on turn three on you. It's "fun" to have 1-4 eldrazi mimics, thought knot seer, and reality smasher dropped on you by turn three. Because unfair and unbalanced ramp is "fun". Because modern players haven't been *****ting their pants about this problem for a while now. But then again, land destruction solves that problem immediately, and yes that does mean it won't be "fun" for the guy running the deck that feels like blatant cheating to his opponent. I know this isn't your logic, so I'm not blasting you. But WotC doesn't realize that even in standard, new players don't have fun at fnm, because some cards are way too pushed (hint...everything abzan) and some are neutered to the point of unplayable (like anything red that cost more that 2 besides thunderbreak)
What a bunch of BS. You know what is just as frustrating as losing lands? How about facing a turn 2 3/3, a turn 3 4/4 and a turn 4 4/5 with no decent removal or answer available in the format so you can only chump block. This is what standard Abzan can do today with no fear of any paths or swords spoiling the party.
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
To all this land destruction talk, which I would like to see more myself, it doesn't belong on a WB card that exiles it. Make me a 3cmc red land destruction card at rare, I don't care, just make one. All modern has is fulminator mage, which is awesome, but has a hefty price tag, especially for a red card. If they can make this new card for WB they can make a 3cmc red land destroyer. Maybe they even put the loss 2-3 life like this card and it wouldn't matter; it would still see a ton of play. And arguments about land destruction being bad because it makes players "unable to play magic" are ludicrous. That's not okay but mana acceleration is!? So Ramp= Good but the answer to ramp, land destruction= Bad!? This is a bad argument and probably the biggest reason 1cmc mana dorks had to go away. You nerf one strategy, and it eventually forces you to nerf its opposite.
Hey bro there's a card that blows up lands in modern it's called Molten Rain. The only difference between it and Fulminator Mage is Molten Rain hits all lands and doesn't come with a 2/2 body, Stone Rain is also legal in modern so yeah, you are kind of missing quite a few cards in modern that blow up lands.
My bad. I missed molten rain, and haven't seen stone rain since I was a kid, so assumed it wasn't legal. But that's what I get for assuming. Doesn't change my stance on making one for standard though. I can't see why a staple red ability should be unplayable outside of a 15 or more year format. Imagine a green land fetch card costing 4 for one land only. That would be balanced with the current land destruction abilities with red
They reason is simple, it is one of the most unfun things yo play against according to players, that is the main reason wizards does not want to see it especially in standard, the format most new players would choose, as if they are just starting go and play at FNM only to have their land destroyed to the point of being unable to play, that player may decide this game is not for them. They want to have new players embrace they game, for them to have fun even while losing, them being unable to play is not a way for that to happen. That is just how it is, and thus why efficient land destruction tends to not be seen in standard sets anymore. Is it fair, perhaps, perhaps not. But it is Wizards game to make as they see fit.
I guess is it simple. It's "fun" to have someone drop Karn on turn three on you. It's "fun" to have 1-4 eldrazi mimics, thought knot seer, and reality smasher dropped on you by turn three. Because unfair and unbalanced ramp is "fun". Because modern players haven't been *****ting their pants about this problem for a while now. But then again, land destruction solves that problem immediately, and yes that does mean it won't be "fun" for the guy running the deck that feels like blatant cheating to his opponent. I know this isn't your logic, so I'm not blasting you. But WotC doesn't realize that even in standard, new players don't have fun at fnm, because some cards are way too pushed (hint...everything abzan) and some are neutered to the point of unplayable (like anything red that cost more that 2 besides thunderbreak)
It is what it is man. if your that unhappy about it, write to wizards and good luck. This is why I tend to just play limited, and collect one of each card, is how I have the most fun playing the game. That is they key, find the way you have the most fun, and then do it in whatever format is most friendly to you. If you can not find a way to have fun, then the game its likely not for you at all. But with all the breaking of sales records, Wizards must be doing something right...
What a bunch of BS. You know what is just as frustrating as losing lands? How about facing a turn 2 3/3, a turn 3 4/4 and a turn 4 4/5 with no decent removal or answer available in the format so you can only chump block. This is what standard Abzan can do today with no fear of any paths or swords spoiling the party.
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
Oh that's simple, the access to an absolutely ridiculous mana base in standard that allows people to run 4 colour decks with no issues whatsoever. If only there was some new, efficient land removal spell to keep these 4 colour abominations in check...
What a bunch of BS. You know what is just as frustrating as losing lands? How about facing a turn 2 3/3, a turn 3 4/4 and a turn 4 4/5 with no decent removal or answer available in the format so you can only chump block. This is what standard Abzan can do today with no fear of any paths or swords spoiling the party.
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
Oh that's simple, the access to an absolutely ridiculous mana base in standard that allows people to run 4 colour decks with no issues whatsoever. If only there was some new, efficient land removal spell to keep these 4 colour abominations in check...
The cure is worse than the disease. The better way to keep them in check is to not have put fetches and duals in standard together. Actually the best way would be to have never printed fetchlands in the first place, but it's a little late for that now.
What a bunch of BS. You know what is just as frustrating as losing lands? How about facing a turn 2 3/3, a turn 3 4/4 and a turn 4 4/5 with no decent removal or answer available in the format so you can only chump block. This is what standard Abzan can do today with no fear of any paths or swords spoiling the party.
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
Oh that's simple, the access to an absolutely ridiculous mana base in standard that allows people to run 4 colour decks with no issues whatsoever. If only there was some new, efficient land removal spell to keep these 4 colour abominations in check...
The cure is worse than the disease. The better way to keep them in check is to not have put fetches and duals in standard together. Actually the best way would be to have never printed fetchlands in the first place, but it's a little late for that now.
I can agree with that, although the real problem are lands that are 2 different land types and not the fetches. If a fetch could only grab a land with one land type then they would be fair.
Wizards makes far more mistakes then good decisions now adays, but printing the fetches wernt one of them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Affinity
Naya Burn
Merfolk
White Blue Midrange
Boggles
Grixis Delver
Esper Control(It's semi playable, believe it or not! Dont bring it to a tourny you care about winning though)
Well, yes, it's the combination of fetches and duals with basic land types that creates the problem with mana bases. However, duals with basic land types are otherwise fine, as seen in RTR's tenure in standard. Meanwhile even when they can only fetch basics, fetch lands cause a ton of extra shuffling that makes games take longer and opens up more opportunities to cheat. Given this, I'm inclined to say that fetch lands are the problem.
1R
Instant
Until the end of the turn, if an opponent would have a land that isn't his first land drop in a turn enter the battlefield, exile it instead.
Draw a card.
So a cycling, cheaper, instant stone rain in any format that plays fetches?
Perhaps put "Discard a land card" or "You can't play spells your next turn" to negate the tempo advantage while still stifling the unrespondable ramp?
Edit: Come to think of it, Scotts' suggestion pretty much mimics Hallowed Moonlight, a card specifically printed to curb using the graveyard to bypass casting costs. Don't see why such a concept wouldn't be fair for curbing ridiculous mana ramping. Squelch also comes to mind.
1R
Instant
Until the end of the turn, if an opponent would have a land that isn't his first land drop in a turn enter the battlefield, exile it instead.
Draw a card.
So a cycling, cheaper, instant stone rain in any format that plays fetches?
What a bunch of BS. You know what is just as frustrating as losing lands? How about facing a turn 2 3/3, a turn 3 4/4 and a turn 4 4/5 with no decent removal or answer available in the format so you can only chump block. This is what standard Abzan can do today with no fear of any paths or swords spoiling the party.
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
Oh that's simple, the access to an absolutely ridiculous mana base in standard that allows people to run 4 colour decks with no issues whatsoever. If only there was some new, efficient land removal spell to keep these 4 colour abominations in check...
You might not be too in to playing ramp, but World Breaker takes care of greedy manabases pretty well.
So if I cast this at something and my opponent gives my target prot black or bounces it in response, I still lose the 3 life yes?
Nope! Unlike Toxic Deluge where the life loss is an additional cost paid when you cast the spell, the life loss from Anguished Unmaking is part of the spell's effect, so if AU doesn't resolve, you don't lose any life
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I guess is it simple. It's "fun" to have someone drop Karn on turn three on you. It's "fun" to have 1-4 eldrazi mimics, thought knot seer, and reality smasher dropped on you by turn three. Because unfair and unbalanced ramp is "fun". Because modern players haven't been *****ting their pants about this problem for a while now. But then again, land destruction solves that problem immediately, and yes that does mean it won't be "fun" for the guy running the deck that feels like blatant cheating to his opponent. I know this isn't your logic, so I'm not blasting you. But WotC doesn't realize that even in standard, new players don't have fun at fnm, because some cards are way too pushed (hint...everything abzan) and some are neutered to the point of unplayable (like anything red that cost more that 2 besides thunderbreak)
If there's no decent removal or answer available, why is Mardu green, a deck whose spells are mostly removal, doing significantly better than Abzan aggro?
It is what it is man. if your that unhappy about it, write to wizards and good luck. This is why I tend to just play limited, and collect one of each card, is how I have the most fun playing the game. That is they key, find the way you have the most fun, and then do it in whatever format is most friendly to you. If you can not find a way to have fun, then the game its likely not for you at all. But with all the breaking of sales records, Wizards must be doing something right...
Oh that's simple, the access to an absolutely ridiculous mana base in standard that allows people to run 4 colour decks with no issues whatsoever. If only there was some new, efficient land removal spell to keep these 4 colour abominations in check...
The cure is worse than the disease. The better way to keep them in check is to not have put fetches and duals in standard together. Actually the best way would be to have never printed fetchlands in the first place, but it's a little late for that now.
I can agree with that, although the real problem are lands that are 2 different land types and not the fetches. If a fetch could only grab a land with one land type then they would be fair.
Affinity
Naya Burn
Merfolk
White Blue Midrange
Boggles
Grixis Delver
Esper Control(It's semi playable, believe it or not! Dont bring it to a tourny you care about winning though)
Legacy:
Miracles
Deathblade
Perhaps put "Discard a land card" or "You can't play spells your next turn" to negate the tempo advantage while still stifling the unrespondable ramp?
Edit: Come to think of it, Scotts' suggestion pretty much mimics Hallowed Moonlight, a card specifically printed to curb using the graveyard to bypass casting costs. Don't see why such a concept wouldn't be fair for curbing ridiculous mana ramping. Squelch also comes to mind.
Shadow of Doubt/Squelch do that well enough really.
You might not be too in to playing ramp, but World Breaker takes care of greedy manabases pretty well.
Nope! Unlike Toxic Deluge where the life loss is an additional cost paid when you cast the spell, the life loss from Anguished Unmaking is part of the spell's effect, so if AU doesn't resolve, you don't lose any life