Given his key role in the original sealing away of the Eldrazi, we know Sorin is at least 6,000 years old. And by all acounts he'd already been round the multiverse a bit by then (he had previous with Ugin etc.) His web bio page said 'older than all the other walkers but Bolas put together', but the Planeswalker roster has expanded a bit since then. That did include Karn and Lili though (but not Ugin or Nahiri).
I don't think we know a definitive age for Lili. All we know is she is a pre-Mending walker who then began to age and was relatively old (60-70ish?) when she went to Bolas to get her demonic contract. How long she'd lived before the Mending though is unclear. I think her Origins UR said 'decades' rather than 'centuries', so I would put her at around 200 tops.
How long ago was the mending? Venser was alive to go to new phyrexia with elspeth. I don't think these people live and age like normal humans. Maybe each planeswalker age differently. Like jace life span could be 1000 years while lilianna is 50 years. Wasn't the mending like 5 years before New phyrexia block? I don't think it could be anymore than 20 years, because elspeth was an old walker as well.
Given his key role in the original sealing away of the Eldrazi, we know Sorin is at least 6,000 years old. And by all acounts he'd already been round the multiverse a bit by then (he had previous with Ugin etc.) His web bio page said 'older than all the other walkers but Bolas put together', but the Planeswalker roster has expanded a bit since then. That did include Karn and Lili though (but not Ugin or Nahiri).
I don't think we know a definitive age for Lili. All we know is she is a pre-Mending walker who then began to age and was relatively old (60-70ish?) when she went to Bolas to get her demonic contract. How long she'd lived before the Mending though is unclear. I think her Origins UR said 'decades' rather than 'centuries', so I would put her at around 200 tops.
How long ago was the mending? Venser was alive to go to new phyrexia with elspeth. I don't think these people live and age like normal humans. Maybe each planeswalker age differently. Like jace life span could be 1000 years while lilianna is 50 years. Wasn't the mending like 5 years before New phyrexia block? I don't think it could be anymore than 20 years, because elspeth was an old walker as well.
the timline says it has been 100 year since mending
I think the timeline is a bit of a guesstimate too. All we really know is 'decades, but probably no more than a century'. Long enough for Lili to age (so more than 20 years), to the point where she was an old lady when she went to Bolas. But it's true we don't really know what's considered 'old' in a lot of cases. Teysa, for example, is 112, but seems to be equivalent to about 50ish in our terms.
waaay too good for standard nowadays according to wotc, we all know that in reality. In other news, it's once again confirmed that, no matter how powerful a creature in magic is, a planeswalker can handle it without breaking a sweat. There's just no suspense in storytelling here, everyone is superman, overcoming any challenge thrown at them with ease. Poor avacyn, I hope there's still some hope left for the Angel of hope. Artwork is phenomenal imo, unreal even compared to the bfz trash.
We're not talking about any planeswalker, it's Sorin Markov, the thousand year old vampire planeswalker. The "normal guys" planeswalkers are there cowering in a corner...
This opposed to Urza who could destroy several layers of phyrexia alone before having to retreat. I'm not trying to say that there are no issues with recent storytelling in mtg, but the problem is not that "everyone is superman".
Thousands year old* Sorin is older than every other planeswalker sans the 2 dragons and Karn, combined.
Do we have an age for Ob Nixilis? he has to be hundreds of years old at the least since he spent centuries on Zendikar and conquered many worlds before that...
waaay too good for standard nowadays according to wotc, we all know that in reality. In other news, it's once again confirmed that, no matter how powerful a creature in magic is, a planeswalker can handle it without breaking a sweat. There's just no suspense in storytelling here, everyone is superman, overcoming any challenge thrown at them with ease. Poor avacyn, I hope there's still some hope left for the Angel of hope. Artwork is phenomenal imo, unreal even compared to the bfz trash.
We're not talking about any planeswalker, it's Sorin Markov, the thousand year old vampire planeswalker. The "normal guys" planeswalkers are there cowering in a corner...
This opposed to Urza who could destroy several layers of phyrexia alone before having to retreat. I'm not trying to say that there are no issues with recent storytelling in mtg, but the problem is not that "everyone is superman".
Thousands year old* Sorin is older than every other planeswalker sans the 2 dragons and Karn, combined.
Do we have an age for Ob Nixilis? he has to be hundreds of years old at the least since he spent centuries on Zendikar and conquered many worlds before that...
Forgot about Ob. Ob is also Older. Dude is obviously millenia old.
i am pretty sure ob is going to team up with bolos
If by team up you mean that Bolas manipulates circumstances so that Ob has the opportunity to do something that gives him some sort of satisfaction and also furthers some complicated obscure plan of Bolas' then sure. "Team up".
Are we positive that's Avacyn getting killed there, and not just a Flame blade Angel? No sign of her spear, and it looks like there's a sword stuck in the ground near her left hand. The wings match, but it's quite that all of the red angels have the same wings. Armor appears right for Avacyn as well, but not clearly enough that it couldn't be a random angel
Interesting the vampirism allows for Sorin to be 6000+ years old, that Lilliana, seeking immortality and having studied on Innistrad, did not investigate the magical properties of Shilgenger's original curse, and how it conferred such ageless existence.
You know, speaking of black planeswalkers, it's funny how we almost don't have nonblack (but colored) planeswalkers who are beyond (way beyond, even) human age. Lili, Sorin, Ob and Bolas are all ancient beings. Aside from black, we have the colorless Karn and Ugin, who are also super ancient. In contrast, the only nonblack, noncolorless planeswalker we have who are very old is probably only Venser (he died a few... centuries old, I believe?). Funnily enough, though, having said that, Tezzeret and Vraska are part black but not that old (though is there a hint or mention about how long Ravnican Gorgons can live?).....
As for the art with dead Avacyn, it's hard to imagine that angel as anyone other than Avacyn. Too many important characters there in that scene: Sorin, Jace and Tamiyo, that for the angel to be some random Moonsilver Flight gone crazy would be a severe letdown. Although yeah, whether she's killed by an angry Sorin, a sad Sorin, or something else is still rather open to interpretation.
I guess this is why we see Lili in Eldritch Moon; With Avacyn fallen and Lili having been recently snubbed by Jace, she might consider taking over Innistrad for her power base to kill the other two demons... somehow. Or maybe she just wants a new house.
Interesting the vampirism allows for Sorin to be 6000+ years old, that Lilliana, seeking immortality and having studied on Innistrad, did not investigate the magical properties of Shilgenger's original curse, and how it conferred such ageless existence.
I believe her story mentions that she was afraid of ending up like her brother if she pursued undeath as a means of longevity. Besides, she is vain so lichdom is out, and vampirism for all its gifts comes with a pretty hefty set of weaknesses, and would not have restored her youth. She was old by the time she sought Bolas' help and the need to do something likely felt urgent. Plus, if I was a necromancer with the power to control the dead I wouldn't want to put myself in a spot where I could be controlled by other necromancers.
You know, speaking of black planeswalkers, it's funny how we almost don't have nonblack (but colored) planeswalkers who are beyond (way beyond, even) human age. Lili, Sorin, Ob and Bolas are all ancient beings. Aside from black, we have the colorless Karn and Ugin, who are also super ancient. In contrast, the only nonblack, noncolorless planeswalker we have who are very old is probably only Venser (he died a few... centuries old, I believe?). Funnily enough, though, having said that, Tezzeret and Vraska are part black but not that old (though is there a hint or mention about how long Ravnican Gorgons can live?).....
As for the art with dead Avacyn, it's hard to imagine that angel as anyone other than Avacyn. Too many important characters there in that scene: Sorin, Jace and Tamiyo, that for the angel to be some random Moonsilver Flight gone crazy would be a severe letdown. Although yeah, whether she's killed by an angry Sorin, a sad Sorin, or something else is still rather open to interpretation.
I guess this is why we see Lili in Eldritch Moon; With Avacyn fallen and Lili having been recently snubbed by Jace, she might consider taking over Innistrad for her power base to kill the other two demons... somehow. Or maybe she just wants a new house.
On the black walker train, we also don't have any reference to the age of Ashiok. The horns and shadow face are said to be an effect of the harnessing of fear as a power. I can only imagine that it takes a long time for corruption that strong to take hold.
Venser was still young at the time of the mending and (somehow) already had the post mending version of the spark. He was able to travel the blind enternities and teleport, but was not endowed with the godlike power of other walkers. He definitely lived beyond what you might expect for a normal human lifespan though, and was not an old man when he gave up his life to save Karn's.
The art certainly evokes Avacyn, runny eyeliner and all, with only the sword in the rubble and no spear giving any indication that it might not be her. It is still possible that this scene depicts Sorin stepping in to save her however, whether via popping in to defeat Nahiri or via "purification".
Liliana Vess has ties to Innistrad, and it is one of her known haunts. Jace even alludes to an expectation that he will find her there when he talks to Ugin about going to find Sorin.
Can't see us getting hybrid mana here, so I doubt it's Unmake (or at least, we won't get it as a card). Could still be Utter End reprint - KTK version rolls out of standard when SoI hits doesn't it?
[quote from="ShadowWarrior2205 »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/magic-fundamentals/the-rumor-mill/676347-artwork-the-end-of-avacyn-and-entry-of-tamiyo?comment=167"]Is Sorin casting Unmake on Avacyn
Edit: I search and the smoke and flavor text fit perfectly if we look the Conspiracy (CNS) Mortify card. Also for history can make he not kill her only destroy if Curse (rembember Curses are ench.)
This version of the card is originally from the Duel Decks: Sorin vs. Tibalt. The similarity of the smoke effect on these cards was already noted several times...
To me it actualy looks more like he's protecting Avycyn. Like angry Nahiri wants to finish the job and kill Avycyn, but Sorin intervenes. In the art he's about to start the fight with Nahiri, who aparently managed to make him realy angry, Avacyn landing behind him for protections. Also note, that Jace and Tamyio (who maybe just arrived with Sorin), are not looking at Avacyn (which they most likely would, if Sorin cut her), but somewhere in the direction Sorin is facing, futher supporting that Sorin is about to fight someone, who tried to kill Avacyn.
Because if you want to protect someone, you point your sword towards him/her? Moreover, he is not looking to someone offscreen. He is looking down, preparing a spell, as if facing a final, painful decision to end her, unable to look at her when doing so.
And Jace and Tamiyo are both looking at Sorin directly. I have no idea what made you think that they are not.
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To me it actualy looks more like he's protecting Avycyn. Like angry Nahiri wants to finish the job and kill Avycyn, but Sorin intervenes. In the art he's about to start the fight with Nahiri, who aparently managed to make him realy angry, Avacyn landing behind him for protections. Also note, that Jace and Tamyio (who maybe just arrived with Sorin), are not looking at Avacyn (which they most likely would, if Sorin cut her), but somewhere in the direction Sorin is facing, futher supporting that Sorin is about to fight someone, who tried to kill Avacyn.
Nice dream you have there but I'm afraid it's only a dream. The characters' position is just for show...you know, like in an anime, after blitz-striking the enemy, the winner stands in front of the defetead in a fancy pose? :))
Also, Sorin is looking down in disappointment and Jace and Tamyo ar looking at Sorin in bewilderness. There's no suggestion of some other presence.
But, hey, nice idea!
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We haven't had a mono-blue walker in a non-core set since JACE IN RTR. I think we could do with a little love and let there be two mono-blue PWs in this block.
I think this pictures may depict sorin saving Avacyn and facing whomever caused the madness and as other people pointed out Jace and Tamiyo seem to be looking at something out of the image
How long ago was the mending? Venser was alive to go to new phyrexia with elspeth. I don't think these people live and age like normal humans. Maybe each planeswalker age differently. Like jace life span could be 1000 years while lilianna is 50 years. Wasn't the mending like 5 years before New phyrexia block? I don't think it could be anymore than 20 years, because elspeth was an old walker as well.
Not Avacyn. Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
Do we have an age for Ob Nixilis? he has to be hundreds of years old at the least since he spent centuries on Zendikar and conquered many worlds before that...
Many thanks to DNC at Heroes of the Plane Studios
If by team up you mean that Bolas manipulates circumstances so that Ob has the opportunity to do something that gives him some sort of satisfaction and also furthers some complicated obscure plan of Bolas' then sure. "Team up".
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
As for the art with dead Avacyn, it's hard to imagine that angel as anyone other than Avacyn. Too many important characters there in that scene: Sorin, Jace and Tamiyo, that for the angel to be some random Moonsilver Flight gone crazy would be a severe letdown. Although yeah, whether she's killed by an angry Sorin, a sad Sorin, or something else is still rather open to interpretation.
I guess this is why we see Lili in Eldritch Moon; With Avacyn fallen and Lili having been recently snubbed by Jace, she might consider taking over Innistrad for her power base to kill the other two demons... somehow. Or maybe she just wants a new house.
Bolas doesn't team up. He puppeteers.
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I believe her story mentions that she was afraid of ending up like her brother if she pursued undeath as a means of longevity. Besides, she is vain so lichdom is out, and vampirism for all its gifts comes with a pretty hefty set of weaknesses, and would not have restored her youth. She was old by the time she sought Bolas' help and the need to do something likely felt urgent. Plus, if I was a necromancer with the power to control the dead I wouldn't want to put myself in a spot where I could be controlled by other necromancers.
On the black walker train, we also don't have any reference to the age of Ashiok. The horns and shadow face are said to be an effect of the harnessing of fear as a power. I can only imagine that it takes a long time for corruption that strong to take hold.
Venser was still young at the time of the mending and (somehow) already had the post mending version of the spark. He was able to travel the blind enternities and teleport, but was not endowed with the godlike power of other walkers. He definitely lived beyond what you might expect for a normal human lifespan though, and was not an old man when he gave up his life to save Karn's.
The art certainly evokes Avacyn, runny eyeliner and all, with only the sword in the rubble and no spear giving any indication that it might not be her. It is still possible that this scene depicts Sorin stepping in to save her however, whether via popping in to defeat Nahiri or via "purification".
Liliana Vess has ties to Innistrad, and it is one of her known haunts. Jace even alludes to an expectation that he will find her there when he talks to Ugin about going to find Sorin.
I want to believe:
This version of the card is originally from the Duel Decks: Sorin vs. Tibalt. The similarity of the smoke effect on these cards was already noted several times...
Because if you want to protect someone, you point your sword towards him/her? Moreover, he is not looking to someone offscreen. He is looking down, preparing a spell, as if facing a final, painful decision to end her, unable to look at her when doing so.
And Jace and Tamiyo are both looking at Sorin directly. I have no idea what made you think that they are not.
Let this great clan rest in peace (2001-2011)
Nice dream you have there but I'm afraid it's only a dream. The characters' position is just for show...you know, like in an anime, after blitz-striking the enemy, the winner stands in front of the defetead in a fancy pose? :))
Also, Sorin is looking down in disappointment and Jace and Tamyo ar looking at Sorin in bewilderness. There's no suggestion of some other presence.
But, hey, nice idea!
Standard
UR Control
Modern
Merfolk
Burn
Avacyn did nothing wrong!
Purify Innistrad!
#Purge
If you keep dreaming hard, your dreams just might come close to the truth...