This a good card that should be a rare,I don't see what's mythic about it,it's just a 2/2 zombie.Mythics are supposed to be legendary creatures,planeswalkers,world warping spells and ancient creatures that don't show up that often in the world.A common zombie? Really?
Relentless Dead is that one zombie that keeps punching the windows the entire movie and who eventually opens the path for all his buddies.
It is kinda crazy that it doesn't exile itself when it dies when you choose the "return another zombie mode." Usually some crazy recursion like that gets nerfed like Whip of Erebos type things. Still... impressive bear.
First off it's a mythic bear, so it's more fragile than the whip. Secondly, it's a one shot on death, so it can be more powerful than an artifact that hangs around every turn.
I love how this guy can die and return 2 creatures. Hopefully we can get a modern zombies deck running well.
But in the new art the hair and wings are now a dark gray turning on black. And I got to say that this set is starting to make me excited that maybe MTG is making a turn around to being more fun, or at least we are seeing tribal return.
To be clear: your opinion regarding what was said with regards to the kind of cards that will be Mythic is just that, an opinion, and not factually related to what was actually said. Specifically, Mark Rosewater noted that the Mythic rarity would not just be the most sought after tournament cards. He did not, and has never, said that there would not be tournament quality cards at Mythic.
This cognitive dissonance regarding what you people and what is true is perplexing, given that the explanation I trotted out gets trotted out every time a set is released and someone uses the exact same and perpetually false argument you just made. If you don't believe, go read the article that dissects the nature of the Mythic rarity. The only kind of card that is explicitly stated to never be made Mythic in a typical Magic set is a utility rare, like a cycle of Dual Lands, or something grossly ubiquitous like Mutavault or Thoughtseize.
Seriosuly, it's been almost a decade. This should not need explaining each time around.
This a good card that should be a rare,I don't see what's mythic about it,it's just a 2/2 zombie.Mythics are supposed to be legendary creatures,planeswalkers,world warping spells and ancient creatures that don't show up that often in the world.A common zombie? Really?
I don't think you understand how the rarity system works.
I don't think you understand how mythic rarity is supposed to work
This is powerful, no doubt. Efficiently-costed in both its body and abilities. Even if you miss payment on the first Zombie for its self-recursion, a second can cycle with it back easily for its essentially its casting cost and for 1 more mana, literally advantageous.
It's just a deathtouch ability away from being a true killing machine. (As it is now, in a vacuum, it's still rather grindy, relying on a game of attrition).
I thought about risen executioner but he can't block. That's a major down fall. I could just ignore the risen executioner that comes back from the graveyard and attack through it. Yes it pumps your other zombies but specifically because it can't block I never liked the card at all. Maybe the price will go up but i wouldn't play the deck.
Yeah, I'd rather play Kalitas in the 4 drop slot. Despite Cletus being a vampire there is a lot of juicy late game synergy there, plus it hoses the mirror if that's a thing.
And it could hardly be called a bomb when it's still a 2/2 creature, no matter how many times it could return to (un)life, it's still a bear that can be stopped on its tracks by any butt bigger than 3.
It is specifically not stopped by a single large creature which is another reason why it is so powerful. It requires two blockers each time you attack, and each time you recur it, you can grab another zombie from the grave. If this is your only zombie then obvious mistakes were made, otherwise this guy will rock every limited game he shows up in and should make splashes in various constructed formats.
It is kinda crazy that it doesn't exile itself when it dies when you choose the "return another zombie mode." Usually some crazy recursion like that gets nerfed like Whip of Erebos type things. Still... impressive bear.
First off it's a mythic bear, so it's more fragile than the whip. Secondly, it's a one shot on death, so it can be more powerful than an artifact that hangs around every turn.
I love how this guy can die and return 2 creatures. Hopefully we can get a modern zombies deck running well.
He definitely has potential for a modern Zombie build. I play modern zombies just for fun, and In fact, Zombies needed a really good 2 drop in order to round them out and make them more streamlined. This is like the ultimate 2 drop in terms of what they could have got, so I'm pretty excited to grab 4 of these for my deck.
The big issue with that article is that the writer formulates an opino on what "not just Tournament Playable cards" means that is at odds with the statement.
To me this suggests that tournament playability should not be part of the criteria of "epic-ness.
The intention here is well but poorly construed. The comment that he quotes from Mark Rosewater definitely leaves open the door for some high quality cards being Mythic. It simply intones that the Mythic rarity will never be comprised of only those kind of cards.
The big issue with that article is that the writer formulates an opino on what "not just Tournament Playable cards" means that is at odds with the statement.
To me this suggests that tournament playability should not be part of the criteria of "epic-ness.
The intention here is well but poorly construed. The comment that he quotes from Mark Rosewater definitely leaves open the door for some high quality cards being Mythic. It simply intones that the Mythic rarity will never be comprised of only those kind of cards.
Once again, cognitive dissonance at work.
He never said tournament quality cards could not be Mythic. In fact, he said JTMS and the like were perfect as mythics. The issue is when it contradicts the epic feel. Epic feel would be creating massive wurms, getting a second turn, or big legendaries with big effects. Did anyone say Griselbrand shouldn't be a mythic? This is a uber efficient bear with pushed abilities. Zombies are everywhere in MTG. How is this epic at all? It is clearly pushed as a mythic to sell packs. This is like if thot knot seer or reality smasher was a mythic.
But in the new art the hair and wings are now a dark gray turning on black. And I got to say that this set is starting to make me excited that maybe MTG is making a turn around to being more fun, or at least we are seeing tribal return.
I agree. I love tribal, give meaning to the deck and the choices one makes for cards. I will even, at times, use a particular card because the flavor meets the tribe, even if the card itself lends nothing physically to the theme.
Reassembling Skeleton is more reliable.
And lol at people expecting WotC to keep their word on not making chase cards mythic just because they're chase and they want you opening aprox 110 boosters for each one of the 4x you'll need.
I imagine development moved it to mythic because it was too powerful in limited, also for $$$.
Still BS that a common zombie is mythic though.[/quote]
I hate mythic rarity in general, but I think this is pretty closely in line with wizards criteria. It complex its powerful it unique and it would bust limited wide open. Despite the bull***** that wizards fed us when they announced mythic rarity, it is not reserved for splashy legendary creatures.
As far as evaluating its playability I think it should be taken in context of any deck and not just zombie tribal. A 2/2 menace for 2 is rather good in limited but not generally constructed playable. Costing double black is another strike against it. Costing 2 mana of.the same color can be very hard on manabases especially when you are trying to get it out by turn 2. Now on to the abilities. The return to hand ability is very mana intensive. In order to sact the card and leave up the ability you need 3 black mana. That is a huge opportunity cost in any deck that isn't mono black. This isn't something you could do every turn but maybe every other turn. As a chump blocker that's a pretty steep cost but if its trading with a card (another creature or removal) it will definitely be worth it. Finally we have the reanimation ability. Without other zombies it is useless but let's not forget that this card itself is a zombie. With two of these endless chumblocks becomes quite a bit more cost effective. Now instead of triple black each turn you can just pay 2 every turn using them to reanimate each other.
Overall this card is severely limited by its color restrictions but decks that can support it will play it. Its not strong enough to force an archetype, but it is still good in a deck where it is one of the only zombies.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Check out my Sales 50% OFF everything for the next 48 hours.
worth noting, these aren't legendary and play very well in multiples. You can play one turn 2 and start to bash. Even if they remove one before you have a spare black mana available, when you play the second all you need is two of any mana and they can start to cycle back and forth. If they remove both in one turn they just wasted three removal spells on two creaturs and you can still get them back when/if you draw the third. They just seem like a lot of upside to me.
You are right, and we can derive from the history of Gravecrawler.
But for a mystic rare and such a breakable ability, I prefer another more powerful zombie to tango with.
Thus, its not my type of card cos the window of opportunity for its ability is narrow, requires me to have open mana and takes 2 to tango.
If its a 3/2 and cant block with these 2 abilities, I love it! Personal disdain for menace. Eeks.
Reminds me of Voice of Resurgence since it's a mythic 2/2 that's pushed in terms of efficiency, obviously aimed at being a 4 of in standard decks in order to be expensive to sell packs.
At least you have to pay mana to get your value this time and it doesn't punish you for interacting with it during an opponents turn. But yeah, it's dangerously similar, albeit more specific since it can only revive zombies.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
I am so playing this this with Liliana heretical healer and nantuko husk in an aristocrats deck. If I get two of them out, I just cycle them over and over with a zulaport cutthroat out and it even brings back a husk if needed. Cycles back fleshbag marauders too. This card was made for an Aristocrats deck! This card also synergises well with Kalitas and I imagine there will be plenty of other great zombies and vamps in this set. Cycle 2 of these guys with kalitas and he gets out of hand real quick.
Haha he's always there in those movies.
First off it's a mythic bear, so it's more fragile than the whip. Secondly, it's a one shot on death, so it can be more powerful than an artifact that hangs around every turn.
I love how this guy can die and return 2 creatures. Hopefully we can get a modern zombies deck running well.
But in the new art the hair and wings are now a dark gray turning on black. And I got to say that this set is starting to make me excited that maybe MTG is making a turn around to being more fun, or at least we are seeing tribal return.
GWU Eldrazi
BRG Living End
WBG JunkFit
This cognitive dissonance regarding what you people and what is true is perplexing, given that the explanation I trotted out gets trotted out every time a set is released and someone uses the exact same and perpetually false argument you just made. If you don't believe, go read the article that dissects the nature of the Mythic rarity. The only kind of card that is explicitly stated to never be made Mythic in a typical Magic set is a utility rare, like a cycle of Dual Lands, or something grossly ubiquitous like Mutavault or Thoughtseize.
Seriosuly, it's been almost a decade. This should not need explaining each time around.
I don't think you understand how mythic rarity is supposed to work
http://www.mtggoldfish.com/articles/the-changing-definition-of-mythic-rare
Fingers crossed for a Death Baron reprint?
Yeah, I'd rather play Kalitas in the 4 drop slot. Despite Cletus being a vampire there is a lot of juicy late game synergy there, plus it hoses the mirror if that's a thing.
He definitely has potential for a modern Zombie build. I play modern zombies just for fun, and In fact, Zombies needed a really good 2 drop in order to round them out and make them more streamlined. This is like the ultimate 2 drop in terms of what they could have got, so I'm pretty excited to grab 4 of these for my deck.
Dunes of Zairo
SHANDALAR
Innistrad - The Darkest Night
~THE RAVNICAN CONSORTIUM~
A Community Set
Commander: Allies & Adversaries
The intention here is well but poorly construed. The comment that he quotes from Mark Rosewater definitely leaves open the door for some high quality cards being Mythic. It simply intones that the Mythic rarity will never be comprised of only those kind of cards.
Once again, cognitive dissonance at work.
This.
He never said tournament quality cards could not be Mythic. In fact, he said JTMS and the like were perfect as mythics. The issue is when it contradicts the epic feel. Epic feel would be creating massive wurms, getting a second turn, or big legendaries with big effects. Did anyone say Griselbrand shouldn't be a mythic? This is a uber efficient bear with pushed abilities. Zombies are everywhere in MTG. How is this epic at all? It is clearly pushed as a mythic to sell packs. This is like if thot knot seer or reality smasher was a mythic.
I agree. I love tribal, give meaning to the deck and the choices one makes for cards. I will even, at times, use a particular card because the flavor meets the tribe, even if the card itself lends nothing physically to the theme.
And lol at people expecting WotC to keep their word on not making chase cards mythic just because they're chase and they want you opening aprox 110 boosters for each one of the 4x you'll need.
Still BS that a common zombie is mythic though.[/quote]
I hate mythic rarity in general, but I think this is pretty closely in line with wizards criteria. It complex its powerful it unique and it would bust limited wide open. Despite the bull***** that wizards fed us when they announced mythic rarity, it is not reserved for splashy legendary creatures.
As far as evaluating its playability I think it should be taken in context of any deck and not just zombie tribal. A 2/2 menace for 2 is rather good in limited but not generally constructed playable. Costing double black is another strike against it. Costing 2 mana of.the same color can be very hard on manabases especially when you are trying to get it out by turn 2. Now on to the abilities. The return to hand ability is very mana intensive. In order to sact the card and leave up the ability you need 3 black mana. That is a huge opportunity cost in any deck that isn't mono black. This isn't something you could do every turn but maybe every other turn. As a chump blocker that's a pretty steep cost but if its trading with a card (another creature or removal) it will definitely be worth it. Finally we have the reanimation ability. Without other zombies it is useless but let's not forget that this card itself is a zombie. With two of these endless chumblocks becomes quite a bit more cost effective. Now instead of triple black each turn you can just pay 2 every turn using them to reanimate each other.
Overall this card is severely limited by its color restrictions but decks that can support it will play it. Its not strong enough to force an archetype, but it is still good in a deck where it is one of the only zombies.
Feel free to tell me yours!
You are right, and we can derive from the history of Gravecrawler.
But for a mystic rare and such a breakable ability, I prefer another more powerful zombie to tango with.
Thus, its not my type of card cos the window of opportunity for its ability is narrow, requires me to have open mana and takes 2 to tango.
If its a 3/2 and cant block with these 2 abilities, I love it! Personal disdain for menace. Eeks.
Gravecrawler --> This --> Geralf's Messenger --> Phyrexian Obliterator --> Gray Merchant of Asphodel!
All right, I get it Wizards.....
Competitive: GW Hatebears - UG Infect - BGW Liege Rhino
Casual: GR Titan Ramp - BR Aggro
WIP: BUW Control Mill
At least you have to pay mana to get your value this time and it doesn't punish you for interacting with it during an opponents turn. But yeah, it's dangerously similar, albeit more specific since it can only revive zombies.