Just because a card CAN be played in commander doesn't automatically make it a good one, let alone a 'star' in the format. Building up charge counters is still slow as **** and since spells tend to be more expensive in edh, it takes even longer before this thing does anything. So anyone with at least half a brain will realize it's not a very promising card for edh.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
Yeah I agree now from thinking about it. You are casting the spell as part of it's resolution which wouldn't normally be possible. It's the same as Cascade.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
Uh, the rules are pretty clear-cut. If an effect instructs you to cast a card right away, you cast that card ignoring normal timing restrictions. If an effect gives you permission to cast a spell within a duration, you must still obey timing restrictions.
How are the rules clear cut? The card is unreleased and is coming from a translation.
I've seen too many people here assume to know the card rules only to have something change by Oracle upon actual release?
The translated wording we have here seems to follow the same template as Miracle and Cascade, both of which give you permission to cast the spell, and both of them give you permission to cast the spell outside of the timing restrictions of the card. Both are triggers though and not activated abilities.
This being an activated ability throws another wrench in that, will it be the same as Cascade and Miracle? Or will it be different? I'll just wait until the card is released.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
Uh, the rules are pretty clear-cut. If an effect instructs you to cast a card right away, you cast that card ignoring normal timing restrictions. If an effect gives you permission to cast a spell within a duration, you must still obey timing restrictions.
How are the rules clear cut? The card is unreleased and is coming from a translation.
I've seen too many people here assume to know the card rules only to have something change by Oracle upon actual release?
The translated wording we have here seems to follow the same template as Miracle and Cascade, both of which give you permission to cast the spell, and both of them give you permission to cast the spell outside of the timing restrictions of the card. Both are triggers though and not activated abilities.
This being an activated ability throws another wrench in that, will it be the same as Cascade and Miracle? Or will it be different? I'll just wait until the card is released.
It is actually clear cut. The ability, as part of resolution, allows you to immediately cast any spell from your hand of X. The "casting" is part of the resolution of the ability.
You never have priority while a spell or ability is resolving so it is normally impossible to cast a spell of any type. When a spell or ability forces you to cast something while it is resolving timing restriction are ignored, otherwise you wouldn't be able to cast anything and both Cascard and Isochron Scepter would just put stuff in exile and leave it there.
The rules are extremely straightforward and consistent. Your lack of understanding doesn't change that.
I misread this card. I thought it said cast an instant or sorcery equal to or less than the number of counters.
Yikes. Nevermind.
If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
I misread this card. I thought it said cast an instant or sorcery equal to or less than the number of counters.
Yikes. Nevermind.
If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
Sure. But in long games it would allow you to cast Dig Through Time for 1 mana with no draw back.
I misread this card. I thought it said cast an instant or sorcery equal to or less than the number of counters.
Yikes. Nevermind.
If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
It would be vastly more powerful outside of Standard since you'd be able to keep casting critical 2 or 3 mana spells after numerous activations.
mainly because it doesn't say "you MAY add a counter".
it always forces you to add that counter, and then to remove a counter and take it back to a number of counters that you can actually use, you'll need to pay 3 AND tap it.
the whole "cast sorceries as instants" is the only thing going for it.
Is the casting of spell contingent on adding a counter? I.e.: if the card is destroyed in response to activation, or changed into a copy of Tatterkite in a weird stapling accident, so it's impossible to add a counter, can you still cast a spell?
I misread this card. I thought it said cast an instant or sorcery equal to or less than the number of counters.
Yikes. Nevermind.
If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
You could always pay {1} at the end of oponents turn and be able to use things like Serun Visions even when it has 5 counters or use it to cast a counter spell, if you run out of gass you could pay 3 and use scry 3+ to return the gass. People would use it in most control decks.
I misread this card. I thought it said cast an instant or sorcery equal to or less than the number of counters.
Yikes. Nevermind.
If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
You could always pay {1} at the end of oponents turn of use it to cast a counter spell, if you run out of gass you could pay 3 and use scry 3+ to return the gass. People would use it in most control decks.
I figured that was the point of the design. It can still work similarly, but it requires a lot more effort and thought now that it isn't worded as I thought. Effort that may not be worthwhile outside of other options. IDK.
This could see play in legacy in miracles/control/delver and even in modern for delver/UW/Grixis control. It certainly enables EoT Gitaxian Probe and the likes.
Personally, this may be an answer to land destruction's main issue of needing lands on both sides. This problem may get solved. Alternatively, 8 racks has now a way to instant speed discard.
Flavor 10/10
Playability 1-10/10. People will either break this card or it will never see the light of day in constructed.
Is the casting of spell contingent on adding a counter? I.e.: if the card is destroyed in response to activation, or changed into a copy of Tatterkite in a weird stapling accident, so it's impossible to add a counter, can you still cast a spell?
This is actually an interesting question
Scenario:
Activate Brain in a Bottle while it has no charge counters.
While the ability is on the stack, destroy it (lets say with shatter)
Shatter resolves, then Brain in the Bottle's ability tries to resolve
No counter is able to be placed on it. So does it:
a) Get countered, or
b) Look at the last known information (Brain in the Bottle had 0 counters on it, allowing you to cast a card with 0 cmc)
Is the casting of spell contingent on adding a counter? I.e.: if the card is destroyed in response to activation, or changed into a copy of Tatterkite in a weird stapling accident, so it's impossible to add a counter, can you still cast a spell?
This is actually an interesting question
Scenario:
Activate Brain in a Bottle while it has no charge counters.
While the ability is on the stack, destroy it (lets say with shatter)
Shatter resolves, then Brain in the Bottle's ability tries to resolve
No counter is able to be placed on it. So does it:
a) Get countered, or
b) Look at the last known information (Brain in the Bottle had 0 counters on it, allowing you to cast a card with 0 cmc)
Activated abilities exist independent of their source once activated. If the ability refers to a quality of the source (such as number of counters), it uses the source's last known information. Since the counter is put on the card as part of the first ability's resolution (it comes after the colon), you can destroy/sacrifice it in response to activating in order to cast a 0 CMC spell, such as Evermind or Restore Balance. The ability will do as much as possible, so it will fail to add a counter, then ask you to cast a spell with the appropriate CMC. Keep in mind, if the ability has an "If you do" in there, then nothing happens if you can't add the counter.
I seen mention of casting Day's Undoing on the opponents turn being powerful, I agree. Similarly it would be pretty sweet to Cast Great Aurora during the opponent's end of turn, albeit very hard to set up.
Is the casting of spell contingent on adding a counter? I.e.: if the card is destroyed in response to activation, or changed into a copy of Tatterkite in a weird stapling accident, so it's impossible to add a counter, can you still cast a spell?
This is actually an interesting question
Scenario:
Activate Brain in a Bottle while it has no charge counters.
While the ability is on the stack, destroy it (lets say with shatter)
Shatter resolves, then Brain in the Bottle's ability tries to resolve
No counter is able to be placed on it. So does it:
a) Get countered, or
b) Look at the last known information (Brain in the Bottle had 0 counters on it, allowing you to cast a card with 0 cmc)
Activated abilities exist independent of their source once activated. If the ability refers to a quality of the source (such as number of counters), it uses the source's last known information. Since the counter is put on the card as part of the first ability's resolution (it comes after the colon), you can destroy/sacrifice it in response to activating in order to cast a 0 CMC spell, such as Evermind or Restore Balance. The ability will do as much as possible, so it will fail to add a counter, then ask you to cast a spell with the appropriate CMC. Keep in mind, if the ability has an "If you do" in there, then nothing happens if you can't add the counter.
The greater Gargadon restore balance deck should love this interaction.
Yeah, that's potentially a devastating combination.
An intervening if clause would close such a loophole but I wouldn't expect Wizards to bother.
I seen mention of casting Day's Undoing on the opponents turn being powerful, I agree. Similarly it would be pretty sweet to Cast Great Aurora during the opponent's end of turn, albeit very hard to set up.
Yes those are powerful, but the set up and time required for them with this artifact is just too much. You'd be far better off building a deck with Quicken and Leyline of Anticipation
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If that were the case it would be borderline broken 0_o.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
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Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
How are the rules clear cut? The card is unreleased and is coming from a translation.
I've seen too many people here assume to know the card rules only to have something change by Oracle upon actual release?
The translated wording we have here seems to follow the same template as Miracle and Cascade, both of which give you permission to cast the spell, and both of them give you permission to cast the spell outside of the timing restrictions of the card. Both are triggers though and not activated abilities.
This being an activated ability throws another wrench in that, will it be the same as Cascade and Miracle? Or will it be different? I'll just wait until the card is released.
It is actually clear cut. The ability, as part of resolution, allows you to immediately cast any spell from your hand of X. The "casting" is part of the resolution of the ability.
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Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
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Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Eh, I think its too clunky, unlike its elegant older brother Aether Vial.
Spirits
You never have priority while a spell or ability is resolving so it is normally impossible to cast a spell of any type. When a spell or ability forces you to cast something while it is resolving timing restriction are ignored, otherwise you wouldn't be able to cast anything and both Cascard and Isochron Scepter would just put stuff in exile and leave it there.
The rules are extremely straightforward and consistent. Your lack of understanding doesn't change that.
No, it doesn't.
Nah. It would still require setup over a few turns, and since it doesn't add mana, X spells wouldn't be a factor either. It's also limited, for the most part, to one spell a turn, and requires 1 to be paid too. It would have been pretty good as I had originally read it.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
Sure. But in long games it would allow you to cast Dig Through Time for 1 mana with no draw back.
Twitter: twitter.com/axmanonline
Stream: twitch.tv/axman
Current Decks
Modern: Affinity
Standard: BW Control
Legacy: Death and Taxes :symw::symr:
Vintage: NA
It would be vastly more powerful outside of Standard since you'd be able to keep casting critical 2 or 3 mana spells after numerous activations.
mainly because it doesn't say "you MAY add a counter".
it always forces you to add that counter, and then to remove a counter and take it back to a number of counters that you can actually use, you'll need to pay 3 AND tap it.
the whole "cast sorceries as instants" is the only thing going for it.
You could always pay {1} at the end of oponents turn and be able to use things like Serun Visions even when it has 5 counters or use it to cast a counter spell, if you run out of gass you could pay 3 and use scry 3+ to return the gass. People would use it in most control decks.
I figured that was the point of the design. It can still work similarly, but it requires a lot more effort and thought now that it isn't worded as I thought. Effort that may not be worthwhile outside of other options. IDK.
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||
RIP Batman guy. I hope somebody picks up the slack now that you are gone. Sick children need their Batman.
Personally, this may be an answer to land destruction's main issue of needing lands on both sides. This problem may get solved. Alternatively, 8 racks has now a way to instant speed discard.
Flavor 10/10
Playability 1-10/10. People will either break this card or it will never see the light of day in constructed.
Are they finally printing better cards?!
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XOps! All splels! X
What I think of MaRo
Scenario:
Activate Brain in a Bottle while it has no charge counters.
While the ability is on the stack, destroy it (lets say with shatter)
Shatter resolves, then Brain in the Bottle's ability tries to resolve
No counter is able to be placed on it. So does it:
a) Get countered, or
b) Look at the last known information (Brain in the Bottle had 0 counters on it, allowing you to cast a card with 0 cmc)
Oh Wait :-(
Hungry Hungry Heifer
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Activated abilities exist independent of their source once activated. If the ability refers to a quality of the source (such as number of counters), it uses the source's last known information. Since the counter is put on the card as part of the first ability's resolution (it comes after the colon), you can destroy/sacrifice it in response to activating in order to cast a 0 CMC spell, such as Evermind or Restore Balance. The ability will do as much as possible, so it will fail to add a counter, then ask you to cast a spell with the appropriate CMC. Keep in mind, if the ability has an "If you do" in there, then nothing happens if you can't add the counter.
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Yeah, that's potentially a devastating combination.
An intervening if clause would close such a loophole but I wouldn't expect Wizards to bother.
Yes those are powerful, but the set up and time required for them with this artifact is just too much. You'd be far better off building a deck with Quicken and Leyline of Anticipation