Isochron Scepter lets you cast either half but that's creating a copy of the spell which may be different. However, I don't think it is. Split cards, IIRC, have both CMC's in all zones except the stack, where it has the CMC of the side you cast, so I would think you could put the 2nd charge counter, choose boom (as a CMC 2 card in your hand), then cast the bust side. Hopefully someone else can confirm that's how it would work.
When you use the ability, it says that you can cast a spell with cmc x. So long as one half of a aplit card says "yes, I have cmc X," you can cast the spell. Then you choose what half you're actually casting once you place it on the stack.
Interesting card. Sorceries at Instant speed basically. Blue decks will love this in EDH. Great mana sink, doesn't detract since you can cast a spell with it anyway, builds up to allow for big free spells later while leaving lands opens for other things, when it's set to be destroyed sacrifice it, scry a lot and get the late-game win condition you want.
We'll have to wait for Oracle on this.
The card says "cast" so you likely cannot cast scorceries at instant speed with this. Because you can't cast a sorcery at instant speed normally.
It also means your opponent can counter the spell as well.
I said it in the other thread, but this scream CONTROL DECK
First, it´s wrong to say that you are losing 4 mana to cast a 2 mana spell or 5 mana to cast a 3 mana spell. You are using 1 mana to cast a 2-3-etc mana spell and keeping more mana open.
Yes it has a bad initial investiment, but in a deck where you normally keep your lands up it's not problematic to build up this artifact. Then it will be a upside only card after 2 turns.
Just think that with 1 you can cast Cancel or a instant speed Languish/Crux of Fate it will be worth. Also makes easier to tap to cast a Dragonlord Silungar since you need only 1 to counterspell.
This card has potential to EDH and constructed, even if it put some restrictions in the deckbuilding
I somehow find it tragic when an attacking Traveling Philosopher gets blocked by another Traveling Philosopher, which normally results in two dead philosophers. Shouldn't they just sit aside and start discussing?
"This is really exciting, so much to find out about, so much to look forward to, I'm quite dizzy with anticipation . . . Or is it the wind? There really is a lot of that now, isn't there? And wow! Hey! What's this thing suddenly coming toward me very fast? Very, very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide-sounding name like . . . ow . . . ound . . . round . . . ground! That's it! That's a good name- ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me? Hello Ground!"
Curiously enough, the only thing that went through the mind of the Sprouting Phytohydra as it fell was Oh no, not again.
I said it in the other thread, but this scream CONTROL DECK
First, it´s wrong to say that you are losing 4 mana to cast a 2 mana spell or 5 mana to cast a 3 mana spell. You are using 1 mana to cast a 2-3-etc mana spell and keeping more mana open.
Yes it has a bad initial investiment, but in a deck where you normally keep your lands up it's not problematic to build up this artifact. Then it will be a upside only card after 2 turns.
Just think that with 1 you can cast Cancel or a instant speed Languish/Crux of Fate it will be worth. Also makes easier to tap to cast a Dragonlord Silungar since you need only 1 to counterspell.
This card has potential to EDH and constructed, even if it put some restrictions in the deckbuilding
The problem: once you use it to cast a cancel you can't use it for a 3 mana counter spell again UNLESS you sink another turn AND into it.
Honestly the clause that forces you to put a counter on it every time you use it makes it way too situational to be of much use.
Don't get me wrong. I like the concept of the card. Being able to cast counter magic for cheaper is exactly what you want to do. But the fact that you have an initial cost of to so... coupled by the fact that you can only do it once (without sinking even more mana into it)... makes it meh.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
That's kind of what I was thinking too; there are other cards that modify this behavior without saying flash or something similar.
I'm curious too about the interaction with Power Conduit: if I activate the ability, it has one counter, but if I remove that counter while the ability is on the stack, doesn't it change it to be CMC 0 at that point since abilities on the stack check state on addition and resolution? If so that means this could be an interesting cascade enabler.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
That's kind of what I was thinking too; there are other cards that modify this behavior without saying flash or something similar.
I'm curious too about the interaction with Power Conduit: if I activate the ability, it has one counter, but if I remove that counter while the ability is on the stack, doesn't it change it to be CMC 0 at that point since abilities on the stack check state on addition and resolution? If so that means this could be an interesting cascade enabler.
As part of the abilities resolution you add a counter before casting the spell. As a result you can not cast zero mana spells with it ever. (at least that is my understanding of the wording).
That's kind of what I was thinking too; there are other cards that modify this behavior without saying flash or something similar.
You cast the spell as part of the resolution of the activated ability. This ignores timing restrictions for the card type. It's the same as Cascade in that respect.
I'm curious too about the interaction with Power Conduit: if I activate the ability, it has one counter, but if I remove that counter while the ability is on the stack, doesn't it change it to be CMC 0 at that point since abilities on the stack check state on addition and resolution? If so that means this could be an interesting cascade enabler.
If the text of the OP is to be believed, the counter is added as an effect and not a cost (it's after the colon). You could use Power Conduit or other effects to remove counters later and effectively keep the Brains stuck at 1, but you could never get it to 0.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
As currently worded, yes. There is no duration on it, so casting the spell is part of the resolution of the ability.
Without knowing the exact wording, it's difficult to give a 100%, but essentially, if there is no duration on the free cast, it's an immediate demand as part of the resolution of the abilty, which means it ignores all other timing considerations. If the card were to have a timing clause on it, such as "you may cast this without cost until end of turn," then it would obey timing restrictions.
See the difference between Horde of Notions and Havengul Lich. Horde of Notions casts the card as part of the resolution of the ability, and ignores timing restrictions. Havengul Lich sets up a duration, thus simply giving you permission, but not voiding timing restrictions.
Likewise, see Sorceries with miracle, or the hypothetical case where a split card is half instant/half sorcery and would get imprinted on Isochron Scepter.
I said it in the other thread, but this scream CONTROL DECK
First, it´s wrong to say that you are losing 4 mana to cast a 2 mana spell or 5 mana to cast a 3 mana spell. You are using 1 mana to cast a 2-3-etc mana spell and keeping more mana open.
Yes it has a bad initial investiment, but in a deck where you normally keep your lands up it's not problematic to build up this artifact. Then it will be a upside only card after 2 turns.
Just think that with 1 you can cast Cancel or a instant speed Languish/Crux of Fate it will be worth. Also makes easier to tap to cast a Dragonlord Silungar since you need only 1 to counterspell.
This card has potential to EDH and constructed, even if it put some restrictions in the deckbuilding
The problem: once you use it to cast a cancel you can't use it for a 3 mana counter spell again UNLESS you sink another turn AND into it.
Honestly the clause that forces you to put a counter on it every time you use it makes it way too situational to be of much use.
Don't get me wrong. I like the concept of the card. Being able to cast counter magic for cheaper is exactly what you want to do. But the fact that you have an initial cost of to so... coupled by the fact that you can only do it once (without sinking even more mana into it)... makes it meh.
Building a curve around specific counter spells is totally a thing, though. Having counters at every possible CMC and then scrying to rinse and repeat seems fine. Back it up with a win condition you can drop on turn 1 and we might have something.
I'm curious too about the interaction with Power Conduit: if I activate the ability, it has one counter, but if I remove that counter while the ability is on the stack, doesn't it change it to be CMC 0 at that point since abilities on the stack check state on addition and resolution? If so that means this could be an interesting cascade enabler.
Not sure, but I think you have to finish resolving the ability once you start resolving it. So you can't activate this, put the counter on and then activate Power Conduit to take the counter off, then cast something. You can, however, take a counter off to activate Power Conduit, then activate this with Conduit's ability still on the stack. Seems like a good way to take a step back on your curve.
Seems too slow and unreliable for any constructed format I can think of. A casual superstar perhaps, but that's about it. Artwork is pretty sweet though.
I'm SO SICK of the "too strong for Standard" argument. It's the new "Dies to removal". We can have a two mana 4/4 with a zillion abilities, but we can't just have Accumulated Knowledge. Makes sense.
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The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
Based on the translation, it does allow you to bypass normal timing restrictions for Sorceries. It is giving you an implicit "Now or Never" choice to cast a Instant/Sorcery spell with CMC = counters, similar to Isochron Scepter, Panoptic Mirror or Galvanoth. In order for it to not allow timing bypass, it would need to have some pretty convoluted wording along the lines of "The next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn..." and at that point might as well just add mana to your pool instead.
The card only let's you cast the spell without paying it's mana cost. Are we certain that this ignores timing rules for sorceries?
Most likely. I am no judge but it has to work the same way as suspend, miracles and cascade, all saying "cast" and letting you play at non-main phase steps...
I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
Uh, the rules are pretty clear-cut. If an effect instructs you to cast a card right away, you cast that card ignoring normal timing restrictions. If an effect gives you permission to cast a spell within a duration, you must still obey timing restrictions.
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Isochron Scepter lets you cast either half but that's creating a copy of the spell which may be different. However, I don't think it is. Split cards, IIRC, have both CMC's in all zones except the stack, where it has the CMC of the side you cast, so I would think you could put the 2nd charge counter, choose boom (as a CMC 2 card in your hand), then cast the bust side. Hopefully someone else can confirm that's how it would work.
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When you use the ability, it says that you can cast a spell with cmc x. So long as one half of a aplit card says "yes, I have cmc X," you can cast the spell. Then you choose what half you're actually casting once you place it on the stack.
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The card says "cast" so you likely cannot cast scorceries at instant speed with this. Because you can't cast a sorcery at instant speed normally.
It also means your opponent can counter the spell as well.
Gleemax.
First, it´s wrong to say that you are losing 4 mana to cast a 2 mana spell or 5 mana to cast a 3 mana spell. You are using 1 mana to cast a 2-3-etc mana spell and keeping more mana open.
Yes it has a bad initial investiment, but in a deck where you normally keep your lands up it's not problematic to build up this artifact. Then it will be a upside only card after 2 turns.
Just think that with 1 you can cast Cancel or a instant speed Languish/Crux of Fate it will be worth. Also makes easier to tap to cast a Dragonlord Silungar since you need only 1 to counterspell.
This card has potential to EDH and constructed, even if it put some restrictions in the deckbuilding
*looks at miracle*
..maybe?
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The problem: once you use it to cast a cancel you can't use it for a 3 mana counter spell again UNLESS you sink another turn AND into it.
Honestly the clause that forces you to put a counter on it every time you use it makes it way too situational to be of much use.
Don't get me wrong. I like the concept of the card. Being able to cast counter magic for cheaper is exactly what you want to do. But the fact that you have an initial cost of to so... coupled by the fact that you can only do it once (without sinking even more mana into it)... makes it meh.
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That's kind of what I was thinking too; there are other cards that modify this behavior without saying flash or something similar.
I'm curious too about the interaction with Power Conduit: if I activate the ability, it has one counter, but if I remove that counter while the ability is on the stack, doesn't it change it to be CMC 0 at that point since abilities on the stack check state on addition and resolution? If so that means this could be an interesting cascade enabler.
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As part of the abilities resolution you add a counter before casting the spell. As a result you can not cast zero mana spells with it ever. (at least that is my understanding of the wording).
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You cast the spell as part of the resolution of the activated ability. This ignores timing restrictions for the card type. It's the same as Cascade in that respect.
If the text of the OP is to be believed, the counter is added as an effect and not a cost (it's after the colon). You could use Power Conduit or other effects to remove counters later and effectively keep the Brains stuck at 1, but you could never get it to 0.
Without knowing the exact wording, it's difficult to give a 100%, but essentially, if there is no duration on the free cast, it's an immediate demand as part of the resolution of the abilty, which means it ignores all other timing considerations. If the card were to have a timing clause on it, such as "you may cast this without cost until end of turn," then it would obey timing restrictions.
See the difference between Horde of Notions and Havengul Lich. Horde of Notions casts the card as part of the resolution of the ability, and ignores timing restrictions. Havengul Lich sets up a duration, thus simply giving you permission, but not voiding timing restrictions.
Likewise, see Sorceries with miracle, or the hypothetical case where a split card is half instant/half sorcery and would get imprinted on Isochron Scepter.
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Building a curve around specific counter spells is totally a thing, though. Having counters at every possible CMC and then scrying to rinse and repeat seems fine. Back it up with a win condition you can drop on turn 1 and we might have something.
Not sure, but I think you have to finish resolving the ability once you start resolving it. So you can't activate this, put the counter on and then activate Power Conduit to take the counter off, then cast something. You can, however, take a counter off to activate Power Conduit, then activate this with Conduit's ability still on the stack. Seems like a good way to take a step back on your curve.
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That only matters if adding the counter is part of the cost (which usually means it would come before the colon).
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I would not be saying "most likely" if you aren't a judge and/or don't know the Oracle. I've been called out on this so I'm returning the favor. There is no indication this card breaks the rules for casting sorceries at instant speed. Instead I would be encouraging everyone to wait for the Oracle text, or at least a judge to weigh in.
Yikes. Nevermind.
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Based on the translation, it does allow you to bypass normal timing restrictions for Sorceries. It is giving you an implicit "Now or Never" choice to cast a Instant/Sorcery spell with CMC = counters, similar to Isochron Scepter, Panoptic Mirror or Galvanoth. In order for it to not allow timing bypass, it would need to have some pretty convoluted wording along the lines of "The next instant or sorcery spell you cast this turn..." and at that point might as well just add mana to your pool instead.
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Uh, the rules are pretty clear-cut. If an effect instructs you to cast a card right away, you cast that card ignoring normal timing restrictions. If an effect gives you permission to cast a spell within a duration, you must still obey timing restrictions.