I'm pretty happy to be honest. Yeah, Helvault and NDE are meh, but I want almost everything else in here. I'll play Glissa, Jitte, Momir and Dark Depths in decks, Processor is a fun casual card, Cabal Ritual foil is always nice to have. Honestly am not super disappointed and want to get one, as do a few of my friends.
I agree. I think people are giving this too much flak. At least Dark Depths finally got a much needed reprint, and with a token no less! There's definitely value in the set, and there's some reasonably flavorful stuff here too. It's not the best FTV, but it's not the worst either. I'll probably pick one up once the price settles down a bit since I don't have access to one at MSRP.
Jitte and DD are both excellent card-wise and value wise and i think if the rest are total duds the FTW will still be fine. But there are a few good EDH cards like Momir Vig and some Legacy cards like Cabal Ritual to bump from fine to decent. Set is not for everyone but i'll probably end up with a few of the cards in my collection.
I'd jump in a heartbeat for $35 MSRP. From just a quick glance at ebay today they are pre-selling in the 90-100 dollar range. Anyone that wants to pass at MSRP can "pass" the deal along to me then.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I think the only cards in this set that I wouldn't mind having are Dark Depths and the Marit Lage token. Might get a Tolaria West for EDH if it gets cheap enough. Glad they stuck with the original Jitte art.
I think they finally found the middle ground on these. They came out of the gate swinging with Exiled and Relics so everyone complained about the price. Then FTV: Annihilation came along causing a collective "meh" (FTV: Ann. is actually the only one I skipped buying so far). I like this one enough that I'll probably grab one, but will never end up opening it.
"Ugh, too many good cards, this will cost too much over MSRP, no thanks"
Sets like Lore-
"Ugh, 2 good cards and a bunch of crap, pass"
It's not our fault that Wizards fails to find a happy medium.
With a product like this, there is no such thing. If they put cards people want, the MSRP goes out of control. If they don't, people complain about the lack of value. With an extremely short print product like this or Commander's Arsenal, the only one who EVER wins is either Collectors or the lucky few who can buy at MSRP.
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Level 1 Judge
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
You don't call "dying to removal" if the removal is more expensive in resources than the creature. If you have to spend BG (Abrupt Decay), or W + basic land (PtE) to remove a 1G, that is not "dying to removal". Strictly speaking Goyf dies to removal, but actually your removal is dying to Goyf.
"Ugh, too many good cards, this will cost too much over MSRP, no thanks"
Sets like Lore-
"Ugh, 2 good cards and a bunch of crap, pass"
It's not our fault that Wizards fails to find a happy medium.
It's a supplemental reprint product. You don't have to buy it. The world of Magic doesn't end when these are left on the shelves.
Same people moaning and groaning are the same ones moaning and groaning over the price tags associated with the chase cards. So, what's the middle ground?
Dark Depths is going for 2 times the MSRP of this entire set, what would you rather buy?
Edit: This sets individual card price tags add up to about 4x that of the MSRP.
"Ugh, too many good cards, this will cost too much over MSRP, no thanks"
Sets like Lore-
"Ugh, 2 good cards and a bunch of crap, pass"
It's not our fault that Wizards fails to find a happy medium.
It's a supplemental reprint product. You don't have to buy it. The world of Magic doesn't end when these are left on the shelves.
Same people moaning and groaning are the same ones moaning and groaning over the price tags associated with the chase cards. So, what's the middle ground?
Dark Depths is going for 2 times the MSRP of this entire set, what would you rather buy?
Edit: This sets individual card price tags add up to about 4x that of the MSRP.
People here will never be happy with FTV sets. There are too few cards for them to please everyone with, and if they have too many good cards people just complain about the price tag anyway. This one has good value and even some of the cheaper cards are ones that plenty of people will want for commander like Memnarch, Momir, Beseech the Queen, Tolaria West and Glissa.
I think this is a fine FTV, even if I personally don't want or need most of the cards in it for anything.
I do not see it being sold at MRSP for a long time.
I don't see it being sold at MSRP EVER.
If someone can point me out where to order one for $35 I'll do it in a heartbeat. MSRP at $34.99 is a myth as far as I'm concerned.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
I always sell mine at MSRP, always. I am sold out.
Nice of you but how deep is the waiting list? Unless you are a LGS owner or employee or are "in the know" there is a ZERO percent chance of landing one of these for MSRP. Any LGS owners want to sell me one or two at MSRP give me a PM. I'll buy two. If I get a PM I'll be shocked.
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
With a product like this, there is no such thing. If they put cards people want, the MSRP goes out of control. If they don't, people complain about the lack of value. With an extremely short print product like this or Commander's Arsenal, the only one who EVER wins is either Collectors or the lucky few who can buy at MSRP.
There is a solution that Wizards refuses to use: print more.
Agreed. Or print more and offer them at big box retail stores so more people than the LGS owners/staff and those "anointed few" have access to them. As you say, won't ever happen.
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():
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Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Always love the arguments on MSRP... even when sold for more they sell out, and people complain... but still buy them.
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't wizards stated, publicly, on the record, that the purpose of the FTV sets is as a gift to stores, something they know, and basically encourage, stores to sell for more than suggested to make extra money? Isn't that part of the deal? The MSRP of 35, basically means that the store is paying $17 (or whatever) for something wizards tells them they can sell for whatever they want.
Complain all you want, but it isn't wizards who you should be complaining to (unless you think think limited print runs need to be larger, which I agree with), it is the local stores using this gift as a way to pad their profits.
On a completely unrelated topic; set looks cool. I like they used the good art for Jitte.
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I basically only play EDH:
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
Complain all you want, but it isn't wizards who you should be complaining to (unless you think think limited print runs need to be larger, which I agree with), it is the local stores using this gift as a way to pad their profits.
That pretty well sums up what I said.
Print more, sell outside LGS/big online sellers and end the LGS/big online seller kickback program. But again, it won't happen. Just like I won't get a PM from a LGS or online seller offering to sell me 1 or 2 for MSRP of $35. MSRP on these does not exist outside of the "inner circle".
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
The list is pretty terrible in my opinion. Jitte, mind's desire, and glissa were already released a promo foils, and everything in this list is already available as foil except the processor.
Using up a money card slot on jitte and minds desire just seems like a waste. They really should try to reprint more cards that are not available in foil, or cards that haven't already been reprinted in foil.
Complain all you want, but it isn't wizards who you should be complaining to (unless you think think limited print runs need to be larger, which I agree with), it is the local stores using this gift as a way to pad their profits.
That pretty well sums up what I said.
Print more, sell outside LGS/big online sellers and end the LGS/big online seller kickback program. But again, it won't happen. Just like I won't get a PM from a LGS or online seller offering to sell me 1 or 2 for MSRP of $35. MSRP on these does not exist outside of the "inner circle".
As has been said in the past, store exclusive limited products are meant to be that way for a reason, and one of those reasons is to throw the shops (the backbone of even why magic or any other CCG on the market exists and are as popular as they are, especially nowadays when the costs of store rents are getting a bit out of control a lot of places) a bone to be able to help them with the occasional product to be able to use as an added draw or as a way for them to make a bit of extra money to be able to help afford those rents. Sometimes I think people forget just how much it costs in overhead (rent/utilities/other fixed costs) to be able to just keep the doors open, that the profits from the sales of their products have to be able to afford before they can even begin to show an actual profit for the owners to be able to even get money back out of the business, not even accounting for the often large initial cost to get the business started.
If you don't have a local shop that offers to sell such products at MSRP, or to whom you can go in, well in advance, to ask about their willingness to sell limited print run products at msrp, well, then that is unfortunate, but its up to the individual shop to choose what to charge for such products, and in most cases, you will find that shops will sell out very quickly anyway once a vault is announced/once the shop will open up preorders to their customers, and that's often just a matter of checking in with them on a regular basis after the initial announcement to find out when they will be accepting pre-orders and at what price.
People who wait until the lists are released for such limited products are more often than not, going to miss out (Though I have heard of some shops that will refuse to pre-sell and only sell on release day on a first come-first serve basis on the release day for the product, and usually with a 1-per person limit). Also I haven't really ever heard of stores that will offer to pre-sell vaults online for msrp, I have only ever heard of the MSRP shops selling them locally, so at least there I suspect you will never get such a pm, and honestly I don't think anyone should expect otherwise.
Many shops will also use these as a way to reward their best customers, as a thank you for their spending and efforts to help keep the shop up and running, or to add to event prizes as an additional incentive for people to participate.
At the end of the day, if the market (ie: other magic players) are willing to pay more than MSRP for such a product, then it should be reasonable to expect that products such as this will sell for more than MSRP, and if you can find it for less than what the general market is willing to pay (general market price:(see things like ebay completed listings)), then that's great, but in general businesses will look to get as much as they can from the products they sell while still being able to sell the products at a reasonable pace.
Now then, as for the list itself, I have to agree some of the choices seem a bit odd storyline wise, but many of them I think are fine, and overall I think there is enough value in the set with enough reasonably in demand cards (in foil or not) to warrant making the box set worthwhile assuming it doesn't end up with too crazy of a markup, and at the very least it should help bring down the price of some of the cards (foil for some, foil and non-foil for others) for those that don't care for the vault itself (at the very least it should help bring dark depths down a bit).
Not even close. Make no mistake, "EDH" isn't short for "pile of trash."
I agree. I think people are giving this too much flak. At least Dark Depths finally got a much needed reprint, and with a token no less! There's definitely value in the set, and there's some reasonably flavorful stuff here too. It's not the best FTV, but it's not the worst either. I'll probably pick one up once the price settles down a bit since I don't have access to one at MSRP.
With sets like Exiled/Relics/20-
"Ugh, too many good cards, this will cost too much over MSRP, no thanks"
Sets like Lore-
"Ugh, 2 good cards and a bunch of crap, pass"
Marath, Will of the Wild
Friendly Kess Twin Combo
Tatyova - Sir Bounce A Lot
Gonti's Luxury Pie
Prime (Eldrazi) Speaker Zegana (Retired)
In Progress
GBIshkanah, Grafwidow ~ BWGRTymna the Weaver & Tana, the Bloodsower ~ UGRashmi, Eternities Crafter ~ RGAtarka, World Render
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Sell a kidney?
I'd jump in a heartbeat for $35 MSRP. From just a quick glance at ebay today they are pre-selling in the 90-100 dollar range. Anyone that wants to pass at MSRP can "pass" the deal along to me then.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Trades
Pucatrade with me!
(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
With a product like this, there is no such thing. If they put cards people want, the MSRP goes out of control. If they don't, people complain about the lack of value. With an extremely short print product like this or Commander's Arsenal, the only one who EVER wins is either Collectors or the lucky few who can buy at MSRP.
"I hope to have such a death... lying in triumph atop the broken bodies of those who slew me..."
It's a supplemental reprint product. You don't have to buy it. The world of Magic doesn't end when these are left on the shelves.
Same people moaning and groaning are the same ones moaning and groaning over the price tags associated with the chase cards. So, what's the middle ground?
Dark Depths is going for 2 times the MSRP of this entire set, what would you rather buy?
Edit: This sets individual card price tags add up to about 4x that of the MSRP.
People here will never be happy with FTV sets. There are too few cards for them to please everyone with, and if they have too many good cards people just complain about the price tag anyway. This one has good value and even some of the cheaper cards are ones that plenty of people will want for commander like Memnarch, Momir, Beseech the Queen, Tolaria West and Glissa.
I think this is a fine FTV, even if I personally don't want or need most of the cards in it for anything.
Modern: URW Madcap Experiment
Pauper: MonoU Tempo Delver
My EDH Commanders:
Aminatou, The Fateshifter UBW
Azami, Lady of Scrolls U
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed B
Edric, Spymaster of Trest UG
Glissa, the Traitor BG
Arcum Dagsson U
I don't see it being sold at MSRP EVER.
If someone can point me out where to order one for $35 I'll do it in a heartbeat. MSRP at $34.99 is a myth as far as I'm concerned.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
There is no happy medium to be found. People love whining way too much to pass up an opportunity.
Nice of you but how deep is the waiting list? Unless you are a LGS owner or employee or are "in the know" there is a ZERO percent chance of landing one of these for MSRP. Any LGS owners want to sell me one or two at MSRP give me a PM. I'll buy two. If I get a PM I'll be shocked.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Agreed. Or print more and offer them at big box retail stores so more people than the LGS owners/staff and those "anointed few" have access to them. As you say, won't ever happen.
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Correct me if I am wrong, but hasn't wizards stated, publicly, on the record, that the purpose of the FTV sets is as a gift to stores, something they know, and basically encourage, stores to sell for more than suggested to make extra money? Isn't that part of the deal? The MSRP of 35, basically means that the store is paying $17 (or whatever) for something wizards tells them they can sell for whatever they want.
Complain all you want, but it isn't wizards who you should be complaining to (unless you think think limited print runs need to be larger, which I agree with), it is the local stores using this gift as a way to pad their profits.
On a completely unrelated topic; set looks cool. I like they used the good art for Jitte.
Damia, Jenara, Xiahou Dun, Mareth, Nekusar, Oloro, Kresh, Deretti
That pretty well sums up what I said.
Print more, sell outside LGS/big online sellers and end the LGS/big online seller kickback program. But again, it won't happen. Just like I won't get a PM from a LGS or online seller offering to sell me 1 or 2 for MSRP of $35. MSRP on these does not exist outside of the "inner circle".
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Using up a money card slot on jitte and minds desire just seems like a waste. They really should try to reprint more cards that are not available in foil, or cards that haven't already been reprinted in foil.
My Collection & Tradelist
My EDH Cube: 960 Cards, Fully Foiled and Pimped
CUBE TUTOR
As has been said in the past, store exclusive limited products are meant to be that way for a reason, and one of those reasons is to throw the shops (the backbone of even why magic or any other CCG on the market exists and are as popular as they are, especially nowadays when the costs of store rents are getting a bit out of control a lot of places) a bone to be able to help them with the occasional product to be able to use as an added draw or as a way for them to make a bit of extra money to be able to help afford those rents. Sometimes I think people forget just how much it costs in overhead (rent/utilities/other fixed costs) to be able to just keep the doors open, that the profits from the sales of their products have to be able to afford before they can even begin to show an actual profit for the owners to be able to even get money back out of the business, not even accounting for the often large initial cost to get the business started.
If you don't have a local shop that offers to sell such products at MSRP, or to whom you can go in, well in advance, to ask about their willingness to sell limited print run products at msrp, well, then that is unfortunate, but its up to the individual shop to choose what to charge for such products, and in most cases, you will find that shops will sell out very quickly anyway once a vault is announced/once the shop will open up preorders to their customers, and that's often just a matter of checking in with them on a regular basis after the initial announcement to find out when they will be accepting pre-orders and at what price.
People who wait until the lists are released for such limited products are more often than not, going to miss out (Though I have heard of some shops that will refuse to pre-sell and only sell on release day on a first come-first serve basis on the release day for the product, and usually with a 1-per person limit). Also I haven't really ever heard of stores that will offer to pre-sell vaults online for msrp, I have only ever heard of the MSRP shops selling them locally, so at least there I suspect you will never get such a pm, and honestly I don't think anyone should expect otherwise.
Many shops will also use these as a way to reward their best customers, as a thank you for their spending and efforts to help keep the shop up and running, or to add to event prizes as an additional incentive for people to participate.
At the end of the day, if the market (ie: other magic players) are willing to pay more than MSRP for such a product, then it should be reasonable to expect that products such as this will sell for more than MSRP, and if you can find it for less than what the general market is willing to pay (general market price:(see things like ebay completed listings)), then that's great, but in general businesses will look to get as much as they can from the products they sell while still being able to sell the products at a reasonable pace.
Now then, as for the list itself, I have to agree some of the choices seem a bit odd storyline wise, but many of them I think are fine, and overall I think there is enough value in the set with enough reasonably in demand cards (in foil or not) to warrant making the box set worthwhile assuming it doesn't end up with too crazy of a markup, and at the very least it should help bring down the price of some of the cards (foil for some, foil and non-foil for others) for those that don't care for the vault itself (at the very least it should help bring dark depths down a bit).
|| UW Jace, Vyn's Prodigy UW || UG Kenessos, Priest of Thassa (feat. Arixmethes) UG ||
Cards I still want to see created:
|| Olantin, Lost City || Pavios and Thanasis || Choryu ||