Cards I know are in the set : Port, Stoneforge.
Cards I know via verbal communication : Zen fetches, Mother of runes, Lotus Petal, Infernal Tutor, Cabal Ritual, a piece of the elf deck, Sneak and/or Show, Judgement wishes.
Fetches in a limited print run set isn't good at putting downward pressure on prices as normal standard sets.
I'm also unsure how the Judgment Wishes would be received... They don't seem to be good these days, and not applicable to most casual formats. Waste of 5 rare slots TBH.
I agree about the Wishes. When I was new to Magic those were like THE coolest cards ever. But these days? Don't care about them in the least. Do Cunning Wish and Burning Wish still see Legacy play? If the whole cycle is in, that means someone (me) is going to be paying $10+ for a pack and opening a Death Wish or Golden Wish. Gross.
Fetches in a limited print run set isn't good at putting downward pressure on prices as normal standard sets.
I'm also unsure how the Judgment Wishes would be received... They don't seem to be good these days, and not applicable to most casual formats. Waste of 5 rare slots TBH.
I agree about the fetches, putting such necessary cards at such high demand at rare in a limited set like this would be extremely stingy of them. It will help with the price, but not as much as we`d like it to.
Judgment wishes are fine. We can and should expect a lot of low value rares, unfortunately, and the wishes are exciting and fun cards. We are going to see worse rare slots than those.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When I hit my 3000 post mark, I'm gone for good.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Well we know there won't be fetches in SOI because they don't want them to overlap with battlelands. So they might still be planning to reprint the Zen fetches in Standard in a year or three. A small reprint in June would be better than nothing. We'll see.
Yummy! Printing cash!
It must be tough to resist temptation when you have a legal printing press for $50 cards. Cha ching!
The choices feel very influenced by the secondary market.
Well we know there won't be fetches in SOI because they don't want them to overlap with battlelands. So they might still be planning to reprint the Zen fetches in Standard in a year or three. A small reprint in June would be better than nothing. We'll see.
Out of all the "leaks", fetches seem the most dubious to me for multiple reasons.
1. As with Modern Masters, this appears to be a set with a primary goal of drafting. Rare duals are pretty terrible for drafting in general. You *should* always pass them P1P1, but you never actually do due to pure value purposes. They honestly add nothing at all to the draft format. THis is why people expecting them in either and any Modern Masters product shouldn't have expected it as much.
2. Absorbing an exorbitant amount of value in the set. Seriously; with *Just* Wasteland, Force of Will, and the five Fetchlands the EV of a pack is already "worth" 2/3s of the MSRP pack price in EV if my calcs are correct. That leaves precious little room to spread the wealth around; while WotC isn't in direct control of the market, I doubt they would want what would effectively be a product that follows the trend that the original Modern Masters did; in fact they have aggressively worked against this in more recent years. This isn't strictly a collector's item, and is designed to be drafted. Have $90 drafts does not seem like something they would like to have occur. Equally, if they *did* put them in, and following this model, the rest of the set would be absolute junk to make up for the fact that there are multiple $50-100 cards in the rare slot. It's better overall for everyone to have a few high-end items and spread the rest out in the $10-30 range than it is to front-load it with a few cards. Simply put, I don't see them doing this because they would know what would happen to the price of a pack. It would get to an absurd level and be *too* prohibitive.
3. They are able to be printed in standard. I simply don't see them taking the wind out of the sails of the eventual reprint of them into standard, which I do not doubt in the least. It will likely be 2-3 years down the road, yes, but as Khans showed us these are things they want people to go "WOO! FINALLY!" with. Standard is their lifeblood, and like it or not is where their efforts are placed. I don't see them harming future standard sets for the sake of eternal, either in a "realistic" manner or in perception.
*If* they are in the set, then one of two things will be true: Almost the entire rest of the set will be utter trash, or get ready to spend $30+ per pack, and probably $90+ for a single draft. Neither of these things seems optimal or desirable.
get ready to spend $30+ per pack, and probably $90+ for a single draft. Neither of these things seems optimal or desirable.
If stores couldn't raise the price on packs, that there was a max they could charge, would that solve the issue?
What? No. That just leads to shortages. If the retail price is above MSRP it's Wizards's fault for not printing enough product, not the vendor for reacting to demand.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
#dredge
Literally 56 of the 60 is 300 and the last four are 300.
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Standard
Meh
Modern BUWEsper ControlWUB BRUGrixis DelverURB WRBGKiki ChordGBRW WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW BRGJundGRB
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
#dredge
Literally 56 of the 60 is 300 and the last four are 300.
Dredge is a good one, but admittedly not to everybody's taste. I like it, and have built it. Having the LEDs also means that I built Belcher on the cheap and am working toward TES.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
#dredge
Literally 56 of the 60 is 300 and the last four are 300.
Dredge is a good one, but admittedly not to everybody's taste. I like it, and have built it. Having the LEDs also means that I built Belcher on the cheap and am working toward TES.
True. Dredge is a pretty hard deck to navigate if your local legacy players are ACTUAL legacy players. I love it though. I'm getting myself some LED's hopefully here in a couple weeks. Thats the last 4 cards I need for my 75
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():
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Standard
Meh
Modern BUWEsper ControlWUB BRUGrixis DelverURB WRBGKiki ChordGBRW WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW BRGJundGRB
Rare dual lands being bad in draft isn't a reason not to have them. Every first set of a block besides Urza, Masques, and Mirrodin 1 has had duals. Most likely, the reason for not having many in Modern masters before was that there wasn't a clear cycle they should stuff in. Zen fetches are head and shoulders above any other duals they can reprint in price, now, right? That only takes 5 slots vs probably stuffing in a 10 card cycle just because if they did filters or something. Seriously, Wizards can't win. When they reprint, it isn't enough and when they don't reprint, they are also horrible. Reprinting in standard means they have to deal with the consequences of a standard reprint where printing here hurts nothing. They could easily print up packs of all high dollar cards and not give a damn about limited if they wanted.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
I looked at a few Delver and midrangey lists like Shardless BUG, Esper Stoneblade. I have most of the non-lands and the few remaining wouldn't be too troublesome to get. For me, Legacy is cards like force of will, brainstorm, jace, delver, sfm, deathrite shaman. That's what attracts me to the format. If I can't play a deck with stuff like that in it, there's no point.
It's just those bloody ABUR duals. I would be the first person to sign up to no-reserved list legacy.
No reserved list legacy probably means those decklists wouldn't exist or would be knocked down a tier or 2.
I wonder how many people will start selling off non-reserved list cards before the full set is spoiled. I'm debating whether to hold or sell ports now. But if they're printed at mythic then I'm not sure it'll dent the price all that much.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
I looked at a few Delver and midrangey lists like Shardless BUG, Esper Stoneblade. I have most of the non-lands and the few remaining wouldn't be too troublesome to get. For me, Legacy is cards like force of will, brainstorm, jace, delver, sfm, deathrite shaman. That's what attracts me to the format. If I can't play a deck with stuff like that in it, there's no point.
It's just those bloody ABUR duals. I would be the first person to sign up to no-reserved list legacy.
Not reserved legacy would look NOTHING like Legacy. Non-reserved meta would be nothing but burn and infect I imagine. Taking a bolt each turn bc of shocks/fetches doesn't sound very fun. Three colored decks would be more difficult to justify splashes. I dunno. Legacy should stay as is IMO but maybe increase the interaction in Modern with better counterspells. Plus if people think it's hard to find staples now, imagine the issues trying to supply and monitor ANOTHER format.
Makes me want to get into Legacy. Then I look at a decklist and see it costs $2000 of dual lands, and I close the tab.
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
I looked at a few Delver and midrangey lists like Shardless BUG, Esper Stoneblade. I have most of the non-lands and the few remaining wouldn't be too troublesome to get. For me, Legacy is cards like force of will, brainstorm, jace, delver, sfm, deathrite shaman. That's what attracts me to the format. If I can't play a deck with stuff like that in it, there's no point.
It's just those bloody ABUR duals. I would be the first person to sign up to no-reserved list legacy.
I don't suppose playing non blue deck is an option for you? I play Junk Stoneblade which lets me plays tons of extremely powerful cards, some of which you mentioned there, and it's great. For Near Mint of my duals I've spend about $500, the rest of my mana base is from modern (fetches and basics). It's pretty competitive, and it's pretty fun.
Now that said, I do respect if playing legacy and not playing blue doesn't interest you.
More on topic, I really do hope the Zendikar fetches get printed here. I think it'd be nice to get a reasonable amount into circulation and increase the overall value of the packs.
Cards I know are in the set : Port, Stoneforge.
Cards I know via verbal communication : Zen fetches, Mother of runes, Lotus Petal, Infernal Tutor, Cabal Ritual, a piece of the elf deck, Sneak and/or Show, Judgement wishes.
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
Well, I'm personally hoping for reprints on things like the older pain lands, Disenchant, Counterspell, Volrath's Stronghold, etc, along with the enemy onslaught fetch lands. Disenchant has needed a good reprint since forever, along with urza lands and other favorites.
They've got a lot of useful stuff they can reprint from older sets that wont bust the bank. They just have to pick wisely so people don't start getting all angry that the card they need still hasn't been reprinted for 15+ years.
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Keep in mind, this isn't just for Legacy. The solicitation specifically mentions support for Commander. Could see some reprints of stuff from the Commander sets, like Flusterstorm and Unexpectedly Absent
Now I will probably be attacked mercilessly for saying this, but I think if they really are gonna make a new non rotating format here, they may want to go ahead and pull the trigger and update modern to actually be "modern". Make modern everything from 2010 on, you can start at M11. Yes this will outrage modern players, especially because it doesn't include the original zendikar, but it will force them into a divide. They will either have to get into eternal, or a new modern that doesn't include a lot of the staple cards. This would give the eternal format an immediate base of players, and open the doors to a lot of people who want to play modern but can't afford to because they haven't played the game since 2001. All the people who have invested in standard over the last five years would no longer have a bunch of useless cards that were great in standard but too slow for the 15 years of modern cards. It creates a brand new base of players for both modern and eternal, and it of course does the one thing wizards so desperately wants; modern players to crack packs from their newest sets. Yes, again, it will piss off lots of current modern players, but financially it makes perfect sense for wizards because now they sell even more product all across the board. And they can actually make modern "modern" and support it much better with every new set
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It appears we'll be getting Show and Tell, Wasteland, Zendikar Fetchlands, Swords to Plowshares, Lotus Petal and Rishadan Port.
I'm also unsure how the Judgment Wishes would be received... They don't seem to be good these days, and not applicable to most casual formats. Waste of 5 rare slots TBH.
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
Trades
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(Signature courtesy of Argetlam of Hakai Studios
Judgment wishes are fine. We can and should expect a lot of low value rares, unfortunately, and the wishes are exciting and fun cards. We are going to see worse rare slots than those.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
Doomsdayin'
It must be tough to resist temptation when you have a legal printing press for $50 cards. Cha ching!
The choices feel very influenced by the secondary market.
.
Out of all the "leaks", fetches seem the most dubious to me for multiple reasons.
1. As with Modern Masters, this appears to be a set with a primary goal of drafting. Rare duals are pretty terrible for drafting in general. You *should* always pass them P1P1, but you never actually do due to pure value purposes. They honestly add nothing at all to the draft format. THis is why people expecting them in either and any Modern Masters product shouldn't have expected it as much.
2. Absorbing an exorbitant amount of value in the set. Seriously; with *Just* Wasteland, Force of Will, and the five Fetchlands the EV of a pack is already "worth" 2/3s of the MSRP pack price in EV if my calcs are correct. That leaves precious little room to spread the wealth around; while WotC isn't in direct control of the market, I doubt they would want what would effectively be a product that follows the trend that the original Modern Masters did; in fact they have aggressively worked against this in more recent years. This isn't strictly a collector's item, and is designed to be drafted. Have $90 drafts does not seem like something they would like to have occur. Equally, if they *did* put them in, and following this model, the rest of the set would be absolute junk to make up for the fact that there are multiple $50-100 cards in the rare slot. It's better overall for everyone to have a few high-end items and spread the rest out in the $10-30 range than it is to front-load it with a few cards. Simply put, I don't see them doing this because they would know what would happen to the price of a pack. It would get to an absurd level and be *too* prohibitive.
3. They are able to be printed in standard. I simply don't see them taking the wind out of the sails of the eventual reprint of them into standard, which I do not doubt in the least. It will likely be 2-3 years down the road, yes, but as Khans showed us these are things they want people to go "WOO! FINALLY!" with. Standard is their lifeblood, and like it or not is where their efforts are placed. I don't see them harming future standard sets for the sake of eternal, either in a "realistic" manner or in perception.
*If* they are in the set, then one of two things will be true: Almost the entire rest of the set will be utter trash, or get ready to spend $30+ per pack, and probably $90+ for a single draft. Neither of these things seems optimal or desirable.
If stores couldn't raise the price on packs, that there was a max they could charge, would that solve the issue?
It's called capitalism. Even though LGSs may upcharge from the MSRP, it does no good since their clients who can buy product elsewhere for less.
One is the SOI symbol, the other is the symbol for the Duel Deck that some of the cards are in.
What? No. That just leads to shortages. If the retail price is above MSRP it's Wizards's fault for not printing enough product, not the vendor for reacting to demand.
UR Blue-Red Control
Modern:
UBR Grixis Control
UWR Jeskai Control
Then look at different deck lists. There are decks that only run a few duals, or in rare cases, zero duals. You can start playing Legacy with a less expensive deck, and still have a great shot at winning. I started with Merfolk back in 2010 for that very reason -- no duals.
#dredge
Literally 56 of the 60 is 300 and the last four are 300.
Meh
Modern
BUWEsper ControlWUB
BRUGrixis DelverURB
WRBGKiki ChordGBRW
WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW
BRGJundGRB
Legacy
UBRGrixis DelverRBU
Commander
Also meh
Dredge is a good one, but admittedly not to everybody's taste. I like it, and have built it. Having the LEDs also means that I built Belcher on the cheap and am working toward TES.
True. Dredge is a pretty hard deck to navigate if your local legacy players are ACTUAL legacy players. I love it though. I'm getting myself some LED's hopefully here in a couple weeks. Thats the last 4 cards I need for my 75
Meh
Modern
BUWEsper ControlWUB
BRUGrixis DelverURB
WRBGKiki ChordGBRW
WBGAbzan MidrangeGBW
BRGJundGRB
Legacy
UBRGrixis DelverRBU
Commander
Also meh
No reserved list legacy probably means those decklists wouldn't exist or would be knocked down a tier or 2.
I wonder how many people will start selling off non-reserved list cards before the full set is spoiled. I'm debating whether to hold or sell ports now. But if they're printed at mythic then I'm not sure it'll dent the price all that much.
Not reserved legacy would look NOTHING like Legacy. Non-reserved meta would be nothing but burn and infect I imagine. Taking a bolt each turn bc of shocks/fetches doesn't sound very fun. Three colored decks would be more difficult to justify splashes. I dunno. Legacy should stay as is IMO but maybe increase the interaction in Modern with better counterspells. Plus if people think it's hard to find staples now, imagine the issues trying to supply and monitor ANOTHER format.
BUG Reanimator
BWG Nic-Fit
BGR Punishing Nic-Fit
I don't suppose playing non blue deck is an option for you? I play Junk Stoneblade which lets me plays tons of extremely powerful cards, some of which you mentioned there, and it's great. For Near Mint of my duals I've spend about $500, the rest of my mana base is from modern (fetches and basics). It's pretty competitive, and it's pretty fun.
Now that said, I do respect if playing legacy and not playing blue doesn't interest you.
More on topic, I really do hope the Zendikar fetches get printed here. I think it'd be nice to get a reasonable amount into circulation and increase the overall value of the packs.
Modern - GB Elves, UW Ojutai Control
Legacy - BWG Junk Stoneblade
Gay and Proud
#MakeAmericaGreatAgain
Hopes:
Infernal Tutor is actually Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Cruel Tutor, Vampiric Tutor, or a number of other, better cards.
The five Mirage/Visions Tutors also at rare, with Gamble along for the ride.
Stasis at Mythic (this has been denied a new-border printing literally forever. I understand the hesitation, but it will not ruin drafts at Mythic).
Reprint Stasis!
Control needs more love.
EDH:
Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Melek, Izzet Paragon
Oona, Queen of the Fae
Bruna, Light of Alabaster
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Rhys the Redeemed
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
Sen Triplets
The Mimeoplasm
WUBRGSliver OverlordGRBUW
WUBRGSliver Hivelord(Superfriends)GRBUW
They've got a lot of useful stuff they can reprint from older sets that wont bust the bank. They just have to pick wisely so people don't start getting all angry that the card they need still hasn't been reprinted for 15+ years.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
ETA: Volrath's Stronghold is reserved.