I'll miss Prophet, but it was a well-deserved ban. The card was completely broken AND it could eat up a considerable amount of time. If you don't believe that last part, try her with Momir Vig and chain out as many UG creatures as you have the mana for in every player's turn, then noodle around with the UG guildmages, taps/untaps and/or flickering Zegana with Deadeye. That gets old very fast, I scrapped the deck because it was impossible to play it at a socially acceptable pace.
Also, the fact that I have done that with a 2/2 general says a lot about the "dies to bolt" argument above.
Mana crypt back when EDH was introduced as a format was $20 or something of little consequence. Mana crypt has also killed people numerous times. The ONE advantage mana crypt has over sol ring is that it ramps +2 the turn you play it whereas ring is +1. On EVERY turn after it is worse because you can bolt yourself and it's generating exactly what ring generates. Now crypt is by no means fair either but it is definitively worse than sol ring in the context of EDH. Mana crypt is a judge promo as well/something made to cater to EDH as judges invented EDH/it's not getting banned for that reason too.
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I'm surprised that nobody is mentioning that removing Rule 4 makes Converge and Sunburst cards playable in Commander now without requiring a 5-color Commander
Their page is down at the moment. Could someone please explain what "Rule 4" is and how it is changed? Thank you.
Rule 4 was basically: I am a mono G player. I somehow stole your Island. When I tap it for mana, it will produce C instead of U.
However that rule is now abolished. So in that same scenario a mono G player will get U mana now when they tap an Island.
Even things like Celestial Dawn or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will now work properly like you would think they would work.
Small correction, officially kicking in this Friday ;-)
Edit: It is actually why they removed Rule #4, since now some card will require Colorless in their costs. Rule #4 makes cards like Birds of Paradise Tap for C when it is normally unable to.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Their page is down at the moment. Could someone please explain what "Rule 4" is and how it is changed? Thank you.
Rule 4 was basically: I am a mono G player. I somehow stole your Island. When I tap it for mana, it will produce C instead of U.
However that rule is now abolished. So in that same scenario a mono G player will get U mana now when they tap an Island.
Even things like Celestial Dawn or Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth will now work properly like you would think they would work.
Small correction, officially kicking in this Friday ;-)
Edit: It is actually why they removed Rule #4, since now some card will require Colorless in their costs. Rule #4 makes cards like Birds of Paradise Tap for C when it is normally unable to.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Before this change, you could in an Abzan deck have Birds tap for blue. Rule 4 would then turn it into C instead. That loophole is now closed.
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My Commander decks:
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
I never thought I would see the day they banned PoK. But they did. It literally dies to every decent removal ever printed including Bolt at 1 mana.
Prophet was essentially a gateway through which value creatures could compete with hardcore combo decks. That door is closed now and combo gets that much better.
Considering you can't play cards like Lightning Bolt in Commander and have a half way decent deck, this ban made sense.
I'm surprised that nobody is mentioning that removing Rule 4 makes Converge and Sunburst cards playable in Commander now without requiring a 5-color Commander
The rules announcement mentioned that. And there aren't any cards really sitting on the cusp of playability that suddenly make it into decks now.
The rules announcement mentioned that. And there aren't any cards really sitting on the cusp of playability that suddenly make it into decks now.
But now if I'm feeling really cheeky, I can pay 4 colors of mana into a Phyrexian Metamorph while cloning a Pentad Prism and get 4 counters on it! (I mean in Zedruu. That already worked in 5 color decks.)
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Zedruu: "This deck is not only able to go crazy - it also needs to do so."
Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
Tasigur will not likely be banned in multiplayer: he kind of control decks where is can be problematic in 1v1 is not viable in multiplayer. In addotion the 2 formats are really different
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Currently Playing:
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Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
This is not about commander or not. It's about birds of paradise tapping for mana it can't based on the actual rules of the game. Birds of Paradise cannot generate colorless mana, never have been able to and never will. Rule 4 allowed a Birds of Paradise to generate 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap the birds for a color other than your commanders color identity).
In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana in a mono green commander deck).
Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.
This was challenging. Prophet is not a traditionally obvious problem card for Commander,"
Who are these people?! PoK is the poster child for obvious problems.
That and DEN. Kind of surprised they've banned a bunch of cards that are never played fairly but left that unfair advantage engine alone.
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Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
This is not about commander or not. It's about birds of paradise tapping for mana it can't based on the actual rules of the game. Birds of Paradise cannot generate colorless mana, never have been able to and never will. Rule 4 allowed a Birds of Paradise to generate 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap the birds for a color other than your commanders color identity).
In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana).
Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.
Outside of Commander: Correct. A Birds of Paradise could not generate colorless mana.
Inside Commander: Incorrect. A Birds of Paradise could actually generate colorless mana if you were not running a 5-c deck.
Because of the rules change, only 1v1 Commander allows Birds of Paradise to produce colorless mana if you are not playing a 5-c deck.
That was the effect of Rule 4 existing and then being removed.
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Peasant: Storm (UR) Commander:Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet] Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB) Legacy: Burn (R) Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana).
Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Keep in mind, there is no such thing as generating generic mana. Generic mana only applies in costs. Anything else made colored or colorless mana. Therefore, if you tried to produce black under the old rules, it'd be converted to colorless mana, NOT generic.
Tasigur isn't in danger of being banned in regular Commander, right? I've been working on a deck for months (with the Prophet, of course). It has yet to even be playtested.
Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
This is not about commander or not. It's about birds of paradise tapping for mana it can't based on the actual rules of the game. Birds of Paradise cannot generate colorless mana, never have been able to and never will. Rule 4 allowed a Birds of Paradise to generate 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap the birds for a color other than your commanders color identity).
In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana in a mono green commander deck).
Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.
Say it with me everybody:
Nothing has ever been able to tap for generic mana. Nothing. Ever.
Generic mana is a cost, but has never been a produceable kind of mana. BoPs previously produced colorless mana if you attempted to produce something outside your color identity. Now they produce whatever color you choose.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.
This involves two rules that have recently changed. You cannot generate generic mana. You can only generate colorless mana. The only place that "generic" mana appears is in costs. WOTC has taken steps to clarify this. Prior to rule 4 removal, Birds in a mono-green deck tapped for either G or C. Please read this post again. They explain why Rule 4 made Birds tap for C.
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Nothing has ever been able to tap for generic mana. Nothing. Ever.
Generic mana is a cost, but has never been a produceable kind of mana. BoPs previously produced colorless mana if you attempted to produce something outside your color identity. Now they produce whatever color you choose.
At no point did they produce generic mana.
You know, I didn't think anyone would be capable of even pretending to play this game if they couldn't grasp this, but man, oh man, not only do they...
Nothing has ever been able to tap for generic mana. Nothing. Ever.
Generic mana is a cost, but has never been a produceable kind of mana. BoPs previously produced colorless mana if you attempted to produce something outside your color identity. Now they produce whatever color you choose.
At no point did they produce generic mana.
You know, I didn't think anyone would be capable of even pretending to play this game if they couldn't grasp this, but man, oh man, not only do they...
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand; it was about as relevant as mana burn in its hay day. Now it actually holds a significant relevance. Like, and this is just my thought, but would have helped balance out Mirrodin (2003) if things like Arcbound Ravager actually had a cost of or .
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Peasant: Storm (UR) Commander:Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet] Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB) Legacy: Burn (R) Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand.
I imagine almost everyone has slipped on the issue at some point since it was leaked, but few people are arguing from a position of being completely wrong, this long after the reveal, even after being corrected multiple times.
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand; it was about as relevant as mana burn in its hay day. Now it actually holds a significant relevance. Like, and this is just my thought, but would have helped balance out Mirrodin (2003) if things like Arcbound Ravager actually had a cost of or .
Hey, I've died to mana burn
To your first point: I agree that we should correct and not judge. As I mentioned, it involves a recent clarification on WOTC's part and an EDH rules change. The day after the prerelease weekend, it's easy to not understand how everything works.
To your second point: Making Ravager cost C instead of 1 would have improved things slightly for Standard, but wouldn't really change the modern Affinity deck at all. Standard Affinity was saccing artifact lands to Ravager for a big swing AND for Disciple of the Vault pings. Early iterations of the deck used Frogmite and Myr Enforcer (and Broodstar), and while adding a C requirement to Ravager would have made it a little less explosive, the deck had a lot of ways to make C.
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Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand.
I imagine almost everyone has slipped on the issue at some point since it was leaked, but few people are arguing from a position of being completely wrong, this long after the reveal, even after being corrected multiple times.
I disagree. This change is still very recent and we need to give people time to adjust.
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand; it was about as relevant as mana burn in its hay day. Now it actually holds a significant relevance. Like, and this is just my thought, but would have helped balance out Mirrodin (2003) if things like Arcbound Ravager actually had a cost of or .
Hey, I've died to mana burn
To your first point: I agree that we should correct and not judge. As I mentioned, it involves a recent clarification on WOTC's part and an EDH rules change. The day after the prerelease weekend, it's easy to not understand how everything works.
To your second point: Making Ravager cost C instead of 1 would have improved things slightly for Standard, but wouldn't really change the modern Affinity deck at all. Standard Affinity was saccing artifact lands to Ravager for a big swing AND for Disciple of the Vault pings. Early iterations of the deck used Frogmite and Myr Enforcer (and Broodstar), and while adding a C requirement to Ravager would have made it a little less explosive, the deck had a lot of ways to make C.
Correct. Teaching is much more beneficial for those who do not understand. Judging and mocking on the other hand is more of a hindrance to the community.
I concur that it wouldn't 100% fix the situation of Mirrodin (2003) but it would help to a degree such as if all the artifact creatures and affinity cards had 1-2 in their costs.
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Peasant: Storm (UR) Commander:Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet] Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet] Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB) Legacy: Burn (R) Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
I agree that we should correct and not judge. As I mentioned, it involves a recent clarification on WOTC's part and an EDH rules change. The day after the prerelease weekend, it's easy to not understand how everything works.
People aren't seeking enlightenment while arguing. I don't judge a person's knowledge, but I'll judge their behavior every time. To be fair, you seem to be judging MINE.
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand.
I imagine almost everyone has slipped on the issue at some point since it was leaked, but few people are arguing from a position of being completely wrong, this long after the reveal, even after being corrected multiple times.
I disagree. This change is still very recent and we need to give people time to adjust.
You disagree that we all make mistakes, or that few people are arguing from a position of being completely wrong, this long after the reveal, even after being corrected multiple times?
Teaching is much more beneficial for those who do not understand. Judging and mocking on the other hand is more of a hindrance to the community.
Saidin311 did both, but you are giving them a pass because they were wrong, which doesn't make sense. There are more ways to teach than you seem aware, and the method you are describing does not work with people like that. Notice how Saidin311 isn't arguing anymore?
I never thought I would see the day they banned PoK. But they did. It literally dies to every decent removal ever printed including Bolt at 1 mana.
Prophet was essentially a gateway through which value creatures could compete with hardcore combo decks. That door is closed now and combo gets that much better.
If you are playing Lightning Bolt in EDH and it's not a gimmick deck like "mono-red 1 drops" then you are terrible at EDH. That said, I'll give you $1 each for all your Tarmogoyfs because they die to Doom Blade.
That's a bit of a weird elitist mentality....
I actually first put Bolt in specifically as a way to deal with Prophet, which speaks to the meta warp and attention grabbing that the card created. It was pretty bad. But now that prophet is gone, i dont think i will cut Bolt as it still cheaply handles a variety of utility creatures and popular generals, like Edric and Pracle of Mul Daya, just to name a few. Saying that a player is bad for playing a card as popular and game defining as Lightning Bolt is just ******* weird.
Glad the witch is finally dead. Ding dong.
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Also, the fact that I have done that with a 2/2 general says a lot about the "dies to bolt" argument above.
Stay reasonable, be mindful of your expectations and don't feed the trolls.
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Birds has never, and will never, tap for C. Colorless mana does not have a color, and Birds of Paradise adds mana of any color.
Before this change, you could in an Abzan deck have Birds tap for blue. Rule 4 would then turn it into C instead. That loophole is now closed.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance - Oops! All Chandras.
Prime Speaker Zegana - Draw for Power.
Pir & Toothy - Counterpalooza.
Arcades, the Strategist - Another Brick in the Wall.
Zacama, Primal Calamity - Calamity of Double Mana.
Edgar Markov - Vampires Don't Die.
Child of Alara - Dreamcrusher.
Um, yes, it does (right now). Read the comments you quoted as they made it abundantly clear. If you don't play Commander or you don't know how, you should refrain from "correcting" people on it.
Considering you can't play cards like Lightning Bolt in Commander and have a half way decent deck, this ban made sense.
Edit: Damn you Jeebus. Nath'd
Check out http://www.mtgbrodeals.com/author/john-murphy/ for my EDH articles!
The rules announcement mentioned that. And there aren't any cards really sitting on the cusp of playability that suddenly make it into decks now.
WUBRGPauper Battle BoxWUBRG ... and why I am not a fan of Wayne Reynolds' Illustrations.
But now if I'm feeling really cheeky, I can pay 4 colors of mana into a Phyrexian Metamorph while cloning a Pentad Prism and get 4 counters on it! (I mean in Zedruu. That already worked in 5 color decks.)
Tasigur will not likely be banned in multiplayer: he kind of control decks where is can be problematic in 1v1 is not viable in multiplayer. In addotion the 2 formats are really different
Currently Playing:
Modern Grixis Shadow, Storm
Legacy: Grixis Delver, Sneak and Show
Duel Commander: Kess High Tide
Vintage Big blue(MTGO)
This is not about commander or not. It's about birds of paradise tapping for mana it can't based on the actual rules of the game. Birds of Paradise cannot generate colorless mana, never have been able to and never will. Rule 4 allowed a Birds of Paradise to generate 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap the birds for a color other than your commanders color identity).
In previous games of commander your birds of paradise could tap for 1 green mana, or 1 generic mana (if you tried to tap your birds to generate black mana in a mono green commander deck).
Since the Rule 4 removal, if you are a mono green commander player, your birds of paradise can now tap for black mana. If you somehow needed or wanted to have black mana.
Colorless and Generic mana are now two separate entities. And a Birds of Paradise has never been able to generate colorless mana.
Last example, you cannot use a Birds of Paradise to generate the C required to cast some of the Eldrazi spells which require colorless mana in Oath of the Gatewatch.
Please understand the rules of magic before trying to "correct" people on it.
C is now different than 1. Your birds in a green deck tapping for black prior to rule 4 removal would generate 1.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 2 decades later.
"Entitled:" the entire ad hominem fallacy condensed into a single word. It doesn't strengthen your argument to attack motivations, it just makes you look like you don't understand the argument.
Outside of Commander: Correct. A Birds of Paradise could not generate colorless mana.
Inside Commander: Incorrect. A Birds of Paradise could actually generate colorless mana if you were not running a 5-c deck.
Because of the rules change, only 1v1 Commander allows Birds of Paradise to produce colorless mana if you are not playing a 5-c deck.
That was the effect of Rule 4 existing and then being removed.
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Keep in mind, there is no such thing as generating generic mana. Generic mana only applies in costs. Anything else made colored or colorless mana. Therefore, if you tried to produce black under the old rules, it'd be converted to colorless mana, NOT generic.
Say it with me everybody:
Nothing has ever been able to tap for generic mana. Nothing. Ever.
Generic mana is a cost, but has never been a produceable kind of mana. BoPs previously produced colorless mana if you attempted to produce something outside your color identity. Now they produce whatever color you choose.
At no point did they produce generic mana.
This involves two rules that have recently changed. You cannot generate generic mana. You can only generate colorless mana. The only place that "generic" mana appears is in costs. WOTC has taken steps to clarify this. Prior to rule 4 removal, Birds in a mono-green deck tapped for either G or C. Please read this post again. They explain why Rule 4 made Birds tap for C.
Oh its quiet understandable actually if your not familiar with the rule as it rarely came up before hand; it was about as relevant as mana burn in its hay day. Now it actually holds a significant relevance. Like, and this is just my thought, but would have helped balance out Mirrodin (2003) if things like Arcbound Ravager actually had a cost of or .
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Hey, I've died to mana burn
To your first point: I agree that we should correct and not judge. As I mentioned, it involves a recent clarification on WOTC's part and an EDH rules change. The day after the prerelease weekend, it's easy to not understand how everything works.
To your second point: Making Ravager cost C instead of 1 would have improved things slightly for Standard, but wouldn't really change the modern Affinity deck at all. Standard Affinity was saccing artifact lands to Ravager for a big swing AND for Disciple of the Vault pings. Early iterations of the deck used Frogmite and Myr Enforcer (and Broodstar), and while adding a C requirement to Ravager would have made it a little less explosive, the deck had a lot of ways to make C.
I disagree. This change is still very recent and we need to give people time to adjust.
Correct. Teaching is much more beneficial for those who do not understand. Judging and mocking on the other hand is more of a hindrance to the community.
I concur that it wouldn't 100% fix the situation of Mirrodin (2003) but it would help to a degree such as if all the artifact creatures and affinity cards had 1-2 in their costs.
Commander: Hazezon Tamar (GRW), Arjun, the Shifting Flame (UR), [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Tiny Leader: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Peasant Dragon: [Waiting on Amonkhet]
Modern: Orzhova Spirits (WB)
Legacy: Burn (R)
Vintage: Bazaar Dredge (B)
Saidin311 did both, but you are giving them a pass because they were wrong, which doesn't make sense. There are more ways to teach than you seem aware, and the method you are describing does not work with people like that. Notice how Saidin311 isn't arguing anymore?
That's a bit of a weird elitist mentality....
I actually first put Bolt in specifically as a way to deal with Prophet, which speaks to the meta warp and attention grabbing that the card created. It was pretty bad. But now that prophet is gone, i dont think i will cut Bolt as it still cheaply handles a variety of utility creatures and popular generals, like Edric and Pracle of Mul Daya, just to name a few. Saying that a player is bad for playing a card as popular and game defining as Lightning Bolt is just ******* weird.
Glad the witch is finally dead. Ding dong.
EDH:
Niv-Mizzet
Legacy:
The Rack
Modern
Venser, the Sojourner Control